Elemental Gems and their effects in competitive battling

[alexwolf]

Hi to everyone! I made this thread to discuss with all of you about a new set of items introduced in the 5th gen known as elemental gems. Here is a quick description to those of you who don't know what they are: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Gem

These gems have 17 different types, exactly the same as there are move types! And each Gem powers up each move of the same type by 50% when used for the first time and then disappears.

The first use for the gems that was found was the trick with Flying Gem and Acrobatics(the gem gets used first and Acrobatics receives both the double power and the Gem boost) and so some sets like Acrobatics Gliscor and Tornadus holding a Flying Gem started using the Flying Gem to a moderate success.

While throwing around Flying Gems to activate the newly introduced almighty flying move is definitely a funny thing to do, some people started realizing another useful aspect of those orbs. Luring! Eliminating key targets that were supposed to counter you,but with the power of the gems you could muscle through them with brute power. And the best part is that your opponent has no way of telling that you hold a gem unless you use it.

And so some sets using the gems to eliminate their counters were created. Here is the most popular:

Terrakion @ Rock Gem



Nature : Adamant / Jolly
EVs : 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

This set aimed to get past Terakion's usual counters with the combination of Rock Gem, Swords Dance and SR, namely Gliscor and Slowbro!

Also with the newly released DW Hitmonlee another set came to life :

Hitmonlee @ Normal Gem



Nature : Adamant
Ability : Unburden
EVs : 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- Blaze Kick / Earthquake

This set was made to abuse the free priority Agility that Normal Gem + Unburden + Fake Out provide. By using Fake Out with Normal Gem, you managed to flinch your opponent and do some damage while consuming your item and thus activating your ability and doubling your speed all in one turn! While this set is not so good in OU, it is viable in OU and very good in lower tiers. There is also Sceptile which uses a similar set with Grass Gem, Unburden and Leaf Blade to double its speed and has also Swords Dance to increase its attack!

Unfortunately these are all the uses found for the gems 'till now.
What i want you to do is discuss any other possible possibilities and new sets that could be created by taking into account the positives of those gems!
So far the positives of those gems, that have been found are :

1.Powering up Acrobatics for the entire match,when using a Flying Gem
2.Activating abilities upon use that are difficult to activate otherwise (Unburden)
3.Luring and killing specific counters for some offensive threats with the added power
4.Faking a choice item. This is the less important use of the gems but still deserves a mention

Another set that i have seen being discussed here and there is SD Steel Gem Lucario. After a SD and with a Steel Gem, Lucario can ohko some pokes like Gengar and ScarfTar that would otherwise be good revenge killers.

So what are your thoughts? Discuss!

Any good enough sets using the gems will be included in the list below!


Good sets with gem abusers:


Terrakion @ Rock Gem



Nature : Adamant / Jolly
EVs : 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish / Substitute
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

Purpose of Gem: Luring and killing specific counters at +2 like Slowbro and Gliscor, with SR in play.


Gliscor @ Flying Gem



Ability: Sand Veil / Poison Heal
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Substitute

Purpose of Gem: Activating Acrobatics, which at +2, with STAB and alongside EQ provides very good power and coverage.


Tornadus @ Flying Gem



Nature : Jolly
EVs : 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Bulk Up
- Acrobatics
- Brick Break
- Taunt / Substitute

Purpose of Gem: Activating Acrobatics, which after some boosts, with STAB and alongside Brick Break provides very good power and coverage.


Hitmonlee @ Normal Gem



Nature : Adamant
Ability : Unburden
EVs : 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- Blaze Kick / Earthquake

Purpose of Gem: Activating Unburden to act as a one-use check to many threats and even clean teams late game.


Carracosta @ Rock Gem


Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Shell Smash
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge

Purpose of Gem: Luring and killing specific counters at +2 like Celebi, Politoed, Jellicent and Vaporeon, with SR in play.


Starmie @ Fire Gem



Nature : Timid
EVs : 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Fire

Purpose of Gem: Luring and killing Ferrothorn if he switches in Ice Beam or Hydro Pump, with SR in play.

[yaysnivy34]

I used an Ice Gem Cloyster, and it worked amazingly. Usually, after a Shell Smash, Cloyster is still unable to OHKO Ferrothorn, so this set remedies that:

Cloyster-Skill Link
48 HP/252 Att./208 Speed
Item: Ice Gem Nature: Jolly/Naive
Shell Smash
Rock Blast
Icicle Spear
Razor Shell/Hydro Pump

The classic SS Cloyster with a twist. Usually, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory are able to survive any of these attacks even after Shell Smash, so the Ice Gem gives the first Icicle Spear an extra kick so it can KO these threats. Rock Gem could also work, but it doesn't really counter anything better.

[NixHex]

The gems aren't very popular in OU (and possibly lower tiers which I do not play) because the matches last too long and you'd rather have constant power from a Life Orb or Choice item to last you throughout the match. They work much better in VGC where matches last 5-7 turns and you can use Terrakion's boosted Rock Slide to hit both targets. During my last match at regionals, I managed to pull off a Normal Gem-boosted Hyper Beam with my Modest Porygon-Z and it caused massive damage - probably saved me the match since it disposed of my opponent's Gallade while I had P2 and P-Z as my remaining mons. Hitmontop can use a similar strategy to the Hipmonlee you suggested, since Fake Out is absolutely wonderful in doubles, especially with a Technician boost.

[Lamppost]

IMO the only viable use of these gems is on Gliscor with a Flying Gem. Like you said, it powers up Acrobatics for the entire game since you get the boost the first move anyway. Anyways, i love Acrobatics Gliscor with Flying Gem. The set i usually use is Swords Dance / Acrobatics / Earthquake / Substitute. It's also pretty easy to get behind a substitute because Gliscor is so fast and has so much natural bulk. It can really do a lot of damage behind a Substitute. I haven't seen a whole lot of this guy on the ladder you people should try it out!

[Dark Arceus]

Normal Gem Landorus (That mainly sees use in VGC but can have a niche in regular battling)

Landorus @ Normal Gem
Ability: Sand Force
4Hp / 252Atk / 252S
-Explosion
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake
-(Filler) Protect?

Abuses 2 boosted moves in Sandstorm via Sand Force. Protect is there just because I can't think of anything else (and it's standard in doubles). Explosion hits better despite its nerf this generation.

But yeah most sets with Gems require smaller battles like VGC. The shorter amount of turns allow for the Gems boosts and damage output to have a more "lasting" effect.

[shrang]

What happened to that Flying Gem Gliscor set? It's probably the only Elemental Gem set that is being competitively used these days (maybe Bulk Up Tornadus as well).

Gliscor @ Flying Gem
Ability: Sand Veil / Poison Heal
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Substitute

[Acritter]

Best use is probably Flight Gem in conjunction with Acrobatics, as many people have already stated. I'd like to present another user, though, in Archeops. Even though it's RU, I've been getting steadily good results with it in Wifi OU. Here's my set (unintentionally cribbed from the official page):

Archeops @ Flight Gem
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 4 SpA/252 Atk/252Spe
Nature: Naive
- Acrobatics
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power: Ice

The set gets good neutral coverage of most OU 'mons, and can deal ridiculous damage with the first Acrobatics thanks to the Flight Gem. HP Ice is to mess up Dragons and Gliscor, as well as snag some extra damage on Landorus. Pretty much, avoid their priority and Scarfers and you can do some serious damage. Not as famous as Gliscor, obviously, but it's still a legitimate use of one of the Gems in competitive Pokemon.

[Treadshot A1]

Whatever killed off Flight Gem Acrobatics Mienshao? It's perhaps not as effective as some other users (Gliscor), but it's still nice simply because Acrobatics gets decent hits on things that Mienshao's other moves don't.

[NixHex]

Originally Posted by Fat Acritter

Best use is probably Flight Gem in conjunction with Acrobatics, as many people have already stated. I'd like to present another user, though, in Archeops. Even though it's RU, I've been getting steadily good results with it in Wifi OU. Here's my set (unintentionally cribbed from the official page):

Archeops @ Flight Gem
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 4 SpA/252 Atk/252Spe
Nature: Naive
- Acrobatics
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power: Ice

The set gets good neutral coverage of most OU 'mons, and can deal ridiculous damage with the first Acrobatics thanks to the Flight Gem. HP Ice is to mess up Dragons and Gliscor, as well as snag some extra damage on Landorus. Pretty much, avoid their priority and Scarfers and you can do some serious damage. Not as famous as Gliscor, obviously, but it's still a legitimate use of one of the Gems in competitive Pokemon.

Even with Defeatist, Archeops would be so, so good in OU without Bullet Punch from (insert user here) running around everywhere. Flight Gem is totally hit and run but unfortunately, I still haven't tried it!

[ReshiramBlackZekromWhite]

How about Ambipom?
One can abuse a Normal Gem + STAB + Technician Fake Out, then use Acrobatics which is initially boosted by Technician, then has it's power doubled because of the removal of the item. That works out to be... 165 BP, I think. It's a one-trick pony, and although lacking the constant power of a Life Orb set, it's pretty strong, as running Adamant, it has 328 Atk and 329 Spd, allowing it to outspeed every positive-natured Base 100 or less, and neutral-natured 114 and less (really 113 as nobody cares about Swoobat, unless someone's using a gimmick CM set with Simple (which is unreleased) to give it double +2, allowing it to "sweep" with it's relatively high Base Spd.)

[shrang]

Originally Posted by Fat Acritter

Best use is probably Flight Gem in conjunction with Acrobatics, as many people have already stated. I'd like to present another user, though, in Archeops. Even though it's RU, I've been getting steadily good results with it in Wifi OU. Here's my set (unintentionally cribbed from the official page):

Archeops @ Flight Gem
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 4 SpA/252 Atk/252Spe
Nature: Naive
- Acrobatics
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power: Ice

The set gets good neutral coverage of most OU 'mons, and can deal ridiculous damage with the first Acrobatics thanks to the Flight Gem. HP Ice is to mess up Dragons and Gliscor, as well as snag some extra damage on Landorus. Pretty much, avoid their priority and Scarfers and you can do some serious damage. Not as famous as Gliscor, obviously, but it's still a legitimate use of one of the Gems in competitive Pokemon.

This reminds of me of my gimmick fantasies =D. There are some Pokemon where you can just slap an elemental gem and watch it kill something, and be useless, but that doesn't matter because it's so powerful it doesn't matter if he's dead. He just killed something. Basically, you can either have Rock Gem Archeops with Head Smash / filler / filler / filler, and just use Rock Gem Head Smash to kill pretty much anything that switches in. Rock Gem boosted Head Smash does 62.38% - 73.51% to 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi, just to show how strong it is. Think Explosion. It doesn't matter that Archeops is now in Defeatist range and is completely useless, it matters that you just blow a 10km hole into whatever switched in. Rock Gem Rampardos is similar, although his lack of speed is annoying.

[Cobraroll]

Normal Gem Explosion Metagross could work as an anti-anything 'mon, I guess. Unless said anything carries Protect/Detect/Wide Guard, or is a Ghost-type.

I guess Normalize Delcatty could use Normal Gem as well. Boost to any move it desires, on the first turn at least. Pair it up with Covet to annoy opponents. That is, until they realize they're facing a Delcatty and promptly KOs it with... well, that doesn't really matter.

[alexwolf]

Originally Posted by Fat shrang

What happened to that Flying Gem Gliscor set? It's probably the only Elemental Gem set that is being competitively used these days (maybe Bulk Up Tornadus as well).

Gliscor @ Flying Gem
Ability: Sand Veil / Poison Heal
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Substitute

I mentioned this set in the op but i didn't list it specifically so i guess i will!

[UncleFinger]

Flying Gem Archeops is actually pretty decent in OU. It's gotta beware of Scizor and Lucario yeah, but so do a lot of things. Get it in safely (choice EQs, something that it resists, encore support, something!), and force a switch. The cool thing is that almost nothing can safely switch into it, Skarmory and Bronzong being the two things that stand out in my head, since Stone Edge/Earthquake/Acrobatics gets excellent coverage, and Stone Miss has fantastic power and a high chance to crit. I'm pretty sure Skarm is 2HKOed by Stone Miss if it crits once, although you're still not doing shit to Bronzong.

Acrobatics Gliscor has seemed to be hit-or-miss every time I face it. If my team is still in reasonable shape, it fails to do much, but if it sweeps me, a lot of other sweepers could have done the same in that particular situation, and possibly better. I haven't used it myself, but it seems a bit situational (obviously much less so than Archeops).

Outside of activating Unburden, Terrakion, and AcroBling, I haven't really seen much usage of gems. Yes, there's the whole baiting -> KO thing, but literally the only thing I've seen do it is Terrakion.

[erisia]

I liked using Dark Gem Honchkrow in RU for a while. You'd lure the opponent into thinking you were Choiced into Brave Bird or Heat Wave, then you'd hit them with a +1 Sucker Punch and possibly start a Moxie sweep. This is also useful for giving the Sub-Roost set some extra initial power. With a Dark Gem, Honchkrow's Sucker Punch has enough power to OHKO a lot of neutral targets in the tier, and after a Moxie boost, it retains that level of power without causing annoying recoil like a Life Orb would.

Water Gem Politoed is also pretty decent, giving you a single Specs Hydro Pump to wallbreak with whilst then being able to take advantage of the rest of your support movepool.

[Lee]

The only time I've truly thought that a Gem was the absolute best item to use on a Pokemon was when I used the following set in OU:



move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Aqua Jet
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Rock Gem
ability: Sturdy
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Beautiful and simple set - use with Rain support, make sure the field is clear of hazards and boost on basically anything thanks to Sturdy. Waterfall becomes super-strong and +2 rain-boosted Aqua Jet picks off most priority users or Scarfers.

The Rock Gem is the final part of the puzzle - because most of his sweeping was done at 1HP a Life Orb would have obviously been ridiculous and other boosting items were too weak. I had also found that Stone Edge was only usually called upon once during an average sweep, with his boosted Water attacks usually being enough to take out most of a weakened team. But still, Stone Edge would always fall short against bulky waters and grass types and it just started to feel like he required way too much support to sweep effectively.

But then Rock Gem came along:

+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Rotom-W = 97% - 114% (OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/220+ Celebi = 78% - 92% (33% chance to OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Politoed = 97% - 114% (OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Jellicent = 95% - 112% (OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Vaporeon 91% - 107% (OHKO after SR)

Probably one of my favourite sets in BW, it's inexplicable that it never made it into the analysis but bleh - try it out!

[Aleva]

Archeops with Flying Gem and Acrobatics, maybe?

[dragonboy52]

Sceptile!! :D

Sceptile @Flight Gem
Unburden
Jolly / Adamant
~Acrobatics
~Leaf Blade
~Brick Break
~Swords Dance

Excellent sweeper in the RU metagame. Swords Dance + Unburden Boost is an excellent mix of raw power and Speed.

[BurningMan]

Outside of Acrobatics and Unburden i don't think that there are many reasons to use a Gem in OU when you can use a similar powerful Life Orb or a Choice item that helps simply more consistently.

[DDRMaster]

Originally Posted by Fat ReshiramBlackZekromWhite

How about Ambipom?
One can abuse a Normal Gem + STAB + Technician Fake Out, then use Acrobatics which is initially boosted by Technician, then has it's power doubled because of the removal of the item. That works out to be... 165 BP, I think. It's a one-trick pony, and although lacking the constant power of a Life Orb set, it's pretty strong, as running Adamant, it has 328 Atk and 329 Spd, allowing it to outspeed every positive-natured Base 100 or less, and neutral-natured 114 and less (really 113 as nobody cares about Swoobat, unless someone's using a gimmick CM set with Simple (which is unreleased) to give it double +2, allowing it to "sweep" with it's relatively high Base Spd.)

I'm pretty sure the Base Power of Acrobatics doubles when you don't have an item, as apposed to just doubling the damage. So Technician won't boost the power of Acrobatics after you lose your item.

[BattleStar]

The gems are pretty useful. I have been using quite a bit of Dragon Gem boosted outrages. However I think the gems can be a niche item but usually Choice items can out class them having a 50% boost in the move of your choice throughout.

The archeops flying gem set is pretty strong in RU ( without the presence of Stealth rocks XD) it is capable to KO a good chunk of the metagame without hazard damage and with it can increase it's HOKo range by another fold.

[Lady Shinki]

Dragonite @ Dragon Gem
252 Atk/252 SpAtk/4 Spe
Quiet / Multiscale

Draco Meteor
Fire Blast
Earthquake
Extremespeed/Outrage

There's one time a gem can make a set extremely threatening. I've tested it extensively, and because of the sheer pressure it can put on the opponent it can eliminate walls while being reasonably bulky. Best part is that even when it loses its gem, it can still come in later and start throwing out attacks. Anti-lead DNite was already powerful, and with Dragon Gem it actually gets a lot of KO'es that it would miss out on otherwise (vs. Hippowdon, for example). EQ 2hko's specially defensive tyranitar, but using DM second can catch Rotom-w, Landorus, etc. that switch in after ttar sets up rocks. Vs. non-damaging weather, he can threaten to DD but instead catch their revenger or weather setter with a +1 DM, or their wall with +1 DM followed by FB/EQ. Outrage vs. Extremespeed is just about whether you want extra wall-breaking power or to be able to revenge-kill weakened scarfers.

[Tenodera]

Hydreigon sometimes does a similar Dragon Gem set too, and if it Focus Blasts/Flamethrowers/whatever first, it'll often be assumed to be Choiced.

[Acritter]

Originally Posted by Fat shrang

This reminds of me of my gimmick fantasies =D. There are some Pokemon where you can just slap an elemental gem and watch it kill something, and be useless, but that doesn't matter because it's so powerful it doesn't matter if he's dead. He just killed something. Basically, you can either have Rock Gem Archeops with Head Smash / filler / filler / filler, and just use Rock Gem Head Smash to kill pretty much anything that switches in. Rock Gem boosted Head Smash does 62.38% - 73.51% to 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi, just to show how strong it is. Think Explosion. It doesn't matter that Archeops is now in Defeatist range and is completely useless, it matters that you just blow a 10km hole into whatever switched in. Rock Gem Rampardos is similar, although his lack of speed is annoying.

That sounds absolutely hilarious. Might actually be an almost usable Pokemon if you run a Vaporeon with Wish and Baton Pass as well. You can still get some good results from just throwing Earthquakes and HP Ice at things, so it doesn't have to be a Smash-and-die Pokemon. Losing Acrobatics is going to be painful, though. Just not worth running if you have to go into Defeatist range in order to make it not suck. Maybe I'll try it out sometime. The idea of a "catch-all" to eliminate one enemy Pokemon is rather attractive.

Now I want to run a team that consists of five Pokemon whose only function is to cripple or eliminate one or two enemy Pokemon apiece and one Scarfed Flygon. Just a pipe dream, though.

[Onicon]

Originally Posted by Fat Acritter

Now I want to run a team that consists of five Pokemon whose only function is to cripple or eliminate one or two enemy Pokemon apiece and one Scarfed Flygon. Just a pipe dream, though.

This is a variation of heavy offense, ergo blasting holes in the opponents team with raw power. I just don't see the point why to use gems when you may profit from the permanent boost of Specs and Band, since heavy offensive Pokemon usually use spammable moves anyway; for example a Band-Haxorus can 2HKOs almost anything without coverage issues anyway. Somebody have a better explaination?

Edit: Forgive me, I screwed the definitions up, again. OTL