Make an actual ban list

jrrrrrrr · Dec 21st, 2011, 11:18:44 PM

http://www.smogon.com/bw/
http://www.smogon.com/bw/tiers/

Since we started banning things that aren't pokemon, our tier lists on-site are out of date. Things like Drought and SmashPass aren't listed as banned anywhere on the site. People use SmashPass in NU on the server and I have to get called into battles to kick people, because nobody knows what is banned in the tiers. If our server and website can't even keep up with how fast we ban everything, we can't expect our players to either, so I think we should add a page somewhere on the site that lists everything that is banned tier-by-tier. Then we could link it at the top of the server for everyone to easily see. Something like http://www.smogon.com/bw/banlists would be easy to make and easy to update.

Thorns · Dec 21st, 2011, 11:44:11 PM

seconding this, i don't see why this wasn't done earlier with the drizzleswim clause for ou etc

***Wild Eep**** · Dec 22nd, 2011, 1:16:49 AM

Agree on making the rules for each metagame easily accessible.

I have been tracking the ban changes and compiling them for wifi battlers in the wifi battles subforum. Perhaps this can be a starting point for a banlist page on-site?

Layell · Dec 22nd, 2011, 2:02:34 AM

I would like to see any potential ban page also link to the vote/discussion or include a brief synopsis of why such a ban exists. It would help bring newer users up to speed on our thought process, or why the rule helps balance the game, and would just be more organized.

TM13IceBeam · Dec 22nd, 2011, 2:46:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Layell

I would like to see any potential ban page also link to the vote/discussion or include a brief synopsis of why such a ban exists. It would help bring newer users up to speed on our thought process, or why the rule helps balance the game, and would just be more organized.

Seconding this as well, it'd probably stop idiots who are like "lol why is garchomp banned my starmie can ohko that bastard"

***jumpluff**** · Dec 22nd, 2011, 4:39:12 AM

I have felt for a long time we need a Policy Review archive on-site. It's true you can look for the threads, but rule changes / policy changes should be visible and easily referenced for newcomers and seasoned users alike. This hypothetical page would link to posts where consensus was reached (like vote results, admins closing a thread and stating the conclusion, threads that announce new changes) in chronological order. The ban-list is a natural extension of that and would consolidate these decisions. It would also make it very easy to look at past phases of the metagame for tournaments, policy discussion, and people who are just plain interested. I like the suggestions of adding summaries as well. The need for this is made even more urgent by the fact that without SCMS access you can't look at old news entries.

MLaRF · Dec 22nd, 2011, 6:53:08 PM

Okay, I don't see how anyone could disagree with this. After all, this site's main purpose is to inform its users; I say this should totally be a thing!

ENZ0 · Dec 22nd, 2011, 7:05:11 PM

yes this should be a thing.

Chou Toshio · Dec 24th, 2011, 3:36:43 AM

we need this

Yamata no Orochi · Dec 24th, 2011, 1:47:10 PM

Well, can we implement some of these bans as well? People are still able to use DrizzleSwim, illegal berries, and etc.

Darkaxis · Dec 24th, 2011, 4:53:12 PM

who would do it? I agree but someone has to do it

Firestorm · Dec 24th, 2011, 4:57:06 PM

From conversation on IRC it looked like someone was working on this? Would be good to see a post that they are I think. Obviously agree with the sentiments in the OP. Our rules for most custom metagames are more convoluted than the way of getting Mew in RBY at this point and we need a place to refer to.

**kd24** · Dec 24th, 2011, 5:29:22 PM

if an admin creates the page, i had planned on doing this (was talking to bloo) .. if someone else wants to idgaf, they can have at it then

**kd24** · Dec 24th, 2011, 8:05:42 PM

guess im a fuck and dont like to wait as i do shit

http://www.smogon.com/bw/banlist/

is this what you had in mind? i dont really think each tier needs its own page so i had just planned on putting them altogether

im using wild eeps list because hes fucking awesome and made it really easy

im also a fuck and named it home which in retrospect doesnt look that good...but w/e

ill also be adding pictures and then work on getting it as like part of the dex or something I DONT KNOW

also misty is fucking awesome too

TM13IceBeam · Dec 24th, 2011, 11:21:12 PM

might need to mention that bans extend to the tier(s) below them, so for example drizzleswim would be illegal in UU (not like poli's gonna drop anytime soon) and smashpass is banned in NU

breh · Dec 25th, 2011, 12:22:20 AM

Abomasnow and Snover (or Snow Warning, your pick) are banned from UU.

V0x · Dec 25th, 2011, 1:33:46 AM

Right, I made some changes. I decided to list Ubers first, and each lower tier below it. I put the main clauses in ubers and added and note that they apply in all tiers below, as well. Likewise, I put Moody in ubers and said it's banned everywhere. I put Aboma and Snover banned in UU.

Now the main thing is: does this banlist need to list every tier above it. As in "A team cannot have any of the Pokemon found in "[the tiers above it]" with links to each tier? From a consistency perspective, yes, but would that cause unnecessary clutter?

***Oglemi**** · Dec 25th, 2011, 9:54:25 PM

Here's the page as of now with the recent updates.

Good work everybody that worked on it, and thanks for the suggestion jrrrrrr!

**kd24** · Dec 25th, 2011, 10:14:25 PM

hey!

thanks guys :P

maybe ill do something like pictures soon v.v

Banedon · Dec 27th, 2011, 2:24:29 AM

Surprisingly Drought is banned in UU but not in RU / NU. Is that intentional?

Aeroblacktyl · Dec 27th, 2011, 4:41:45 AM

I think Drought IS banned in RU/NU though. Vulplix isn't however. :)

Chieliee · Dec 27th, 2011, 5:17:53 AM

Why not include gen 3 and 4 banlists too? It'd take me way too long to search for their respective threads

**Arcticblast** · Dec 27th, 2011, 1:07:16 PM

To my knowledge, previous generations didn't have such complex bans.

Layell · Dec 27th, 2011, 10:14:17 PM

Having the other generations wouldn't hurt just to be comprehensive. All the banlist needs is to be added into the article section or the b/w tab list so it can be found after the news story has been long gone.

unless I'm blind and can't find it otherwise.

***Oglemi**** · Dec 27th, 2011, 11:16:38 PM

Thanks to V0x this page can now be found by following the main BW page found here.

I'm sure we'll eventually add details regarding bans in various generations or metagames (Clear Skies/Dream World) in the near future so stay tuned.

Dec 21st, 2011, 11:18:44 PM	#1
jrrrrrrr wubwubwub Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,119 wubwubwub	Make an actual ban list http://www.smogon.com/bw/ http://www.smogon.com/bw/tiers/ Since we started banning things that aren't pokemon, our tier lists on-site are out of date. Things like Drought and SmashPass aren't listed as banned anywhere on the site. People use SmashPass in NU on the server and I have to get called into battles to kick people, because nobody knows what is banned in the tiers. If our server and website can't even keep up with how fast we ban everything, we can't expect our players to either, so I think we should add a page somewhere on the site that lists everything that is banned tier-by-tier. Then we could link it at the top of the server for everyone to easily see. Something like http://www.smogon.com/bw/banlists would be easy to make and easy to update. __________________ NIGMAN: JRRRR IS A SHIT NIGMAN: HO ESLE THINK IT??

Dec 21st, 2011, 11:44:11 PM	#2
Thorns Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,291 outrun my gun	seconding this, i don't see why this wasn't done earlier with the drizzleswim clause for ou etc __________________ [19:01:02] <pookar> can u go 30/12/20 with karthus? fuckhead [19:01:26] <@LonelyNess> I can die more than that if I put my mind to it [19:01:43] <@LonelyNess> in fact I can die more than that even if I don't put my mind to it

Dec 22nd, 2011, 1:16:49 AM	#3
*Wild Eep Iron Bahbs Super Moderator** Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,603 Vine Trip Mentor	Agree on making the rules for each metagame easily accessible. I have been tracking the ban changes and compiling them for wifi battlers in the wifi battles subforum. Perhaps this can be a starting point for a banlist page on-site? __________________

Dec 22nd, 2011, 2:02:34 AM	#4
Layell Alas poor player! Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,823 I knew him, Neku, a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy.	I would like to see any potential ban page also link to the vote/discussion or include a brief synopsis of why such a ban exists. It would help bring newer users up to speed on our thought process, or why the rule helps balance the game, and would just be more organized. __________________ #Orangeislands movie nights: The best way to watch the Pokemon films and specials! * Moderator on smogon's minecraft server * Goodnight Sweet Prince PS/Smogon April Fools 2013: file, credits, and server mode

Dec 22nd, 2011, 4:39:12 AM	#6
*jumpluff just came to say hello Super Moderator** Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5,379 Location: Australia Mentor	I have felt for a long time we need a Policy Review archive on-site. It's true you can look for the threads, but rule changes / policy changes should be visible and easily referenced for newcomers and seasoned users alike. This hypothetical page would link to posts where consensus was reached (like vote results, admins closing a thread and stating the conclusion, threads that announce new changes) in chronological order. The ban-list is a natural extension of that and would consolidate these decisions. It would also make it very easy to look at past phases of the metagame for tournaments, policy discussion, and people who are just plain interested. I like the suggestions of adding summaries as well. The need for this is made even more urgent by the fact that without SCMS access you can't look at old news entries. __________________

Dec 22nd, 2011, 6:53:08 PM	#7
MLaRF Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 239 Land of Unoriginality and Dual-Featured Lands	Okay, I don't see how anyone could disagree with this. After all, this site's main purpose is to inform its users; I say this should totally be a thing! __________________ [S] Signature: Descend into shittiness! Need a profile pic? Why not a mass of tentacles? So I can add myself to my contacts, but I can't send myself a friend request.

Dec 24th, 2011, 3:36:43 AM	#9
Chou Toshio Hmmm... A name for the plan... Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,946 Sea Forest	we need this __________________ "Hmmm... a name for this plan..."

Dec 24th, 2011, 1:47:10 PM	#10
Yamata no Orochi http://pastebin.com/s3p3efrV Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 258	Well, can we implement some of these bans as well? People are still able to use DrizzleSwim, illegal berries, and etc. __________________ Loli Hadron Collider

Dec 24th, 2011, 4:53:12 PM	#11
Darkaxis Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 696 No I am Stone_Cold	who would do it? I agree but someone has to do it

Dec 24th, 2011, 4:57:06 PM	#12
Firestorm I did my best, I have no regrets! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,261 Vancouver, BC	From conversation on IRC it looked like someone was working on this? Would be good to see a post that they are I think. Obviously agree with the sentiments in the OP. Our rules for most custom metagames are more convoluted than the way of getting Mew in RBY at this point and we need a place to refer to. __________________

Dec 24th, 2011, 5:29:22 PM	#13
kd24 Surprise Mother Fucker Moderator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,769 HOME	if an admin creates the page, i had planned on doing this (was talking to bloo) .. if someone else wants to idgaf, they can have at it then __________________ My YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheLemondrop7

Dec 24th, 2011, 8:05:42 PM	#14
kd24 Surprise Mother Fucker Moderator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,769 HOME	guess im a fuck and dont like to wait as i do shit http://www.smogon.com/bw/banlist/ is this what you had in mind? i dont really think each tier needs its own page so i had just planned on putting them altogether im using wild eeps list because hes fucking awesome and made it really easy im also a fuck and named it home which in retrospect doesnt look that good...but w/e ill also be adding pictures and then work on getting it as like part of the dex or something I DONT KNOW also misty is fucking awesome too __________________ My YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheLemondrop7

Dec 24th, 2011, 11:21:12 PM	#15
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	might need to mention that bans extend to the tier(s) below them, so for example drizzleswim would be illegal in UU (not like poli's gonna drop anytime soon) and smashpass is banned in NU __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Dec 25th, 2011, 12:22:20 AM	#16
breh Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,938	Abomasnow and Snover (or Snow Warning, your pick) are banned from UU. __________________ VGC Regionals: VGC11 Top 16, VGC12 12th Place

Dec 25th, 2011, 1:33:46 AM	#17
V0x I love mafe Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,374	Right, I made some changes. I decided to list Ubers first, and each lower tier below it. I put the main clauses in ubers and added and note that they apply in all tiers below, as well. Likewise, I put Moody in ubers and said it's banned everywhere. I put Aboma and Snover banned in UU. Now the main thing is: does this banlist need to list every tier above it. As in "A team cannot have any of the Pokemon found in "[the tiers above it]" with links to each tier? From a consistency perspective, yes, but would that cause unnecessary clutter?

Dec 25th, 2011, 9:54:25 PM	#18
*Oglemi I crashed my car into the bridge, I don't care Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,528 ~(^.^)~	Here's the page as of now with the recent updates. Good work everybody that worked on it, and thanks for the suggestion jrrrrrr! __________________ <shade> what an intense scrotum

Dec 25th, 2011, 10:14:25 PM	#19
kd24 Surprise Mother Fucker Moderator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,769 HOME	hey! thanks guys :P maybe ill do something like pictures soon v.v __________________ My YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheLemondrop7

Dec 27th, 2011, 2:24:29 AM	#20
Banedon Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 903	Surprisingly Drought is banned in UU but not in RU / NU. Is that intentional? __________________ Half the people on this forum are extremely rude in-game. If you believe in politeness both in-battle and outside it, put this in your signature. UU Warstory: What do I do next?

Dec 27th, 2011, 4:41:45 AM	#21
Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL! Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 8,334	I think Drought IS banned in RU/NU though. Vulplix isn't however. :) __________________

Dec 27th, 2011, 5:17:53 AM	#22
Chieliee Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,463	Why not include gen 3 and 4 banlists too? It'd take me way too long to search for their respective threads __________________ nyuu~ This is the world we live in And these are the hands we're given Use them and lets start trying To make it a place worth living in.

Dec 27th, 2011, 1:07:16 PM	#23
Arcticblast is going goat Moderator Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,971 #serperiors Mentor	To my knowledge, previous generations didn't have such complex bans. __________________ New to Smogon? Afraid to jump into discussion? Introduce yourself! ------------------- Fail Cup \| Scramble! \| RMTs: Blistering Sands (BH) Night Stall (OU) \| ARcTicblast \| Demon Spawn \| signature art by Zracknel additional credit to Pocket and AccidentalGreed

Dec 27th, 2011, 10:14:17 PM	#24
Layell Alas poor player! Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,823 I knew him, Neku, a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy.	Having the other generations wouldn't hurt just to be comprehensive. All the banlist needs is to be added into the article section or the b/w tab list so it can be found after the news story has been long gone. unless I'm blind and can't find it otherwise. __________________ #Orangeislands movie nights: The best way to watch the Pokemon films and specials! * Moderator on smogon's minecraft server * Goodnight Sweet Prince PS/Smogon April Fools 2013: file, credits, and server mode

Dec 27th, 2011, 11:16:38 PM	#25
*Oglemi I crashed my car into the bridge, I don't care Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,528 ~(^.^)~	Thanks to V0x this page can now be found by following the main BW page found here. I'm sure we'll eventually add details regarding bans in various generations or metagames (Clear Skies/Dream World) in the near future so stay tuned. __________________ <shade> what an intense scrotum