Dragonite

KurashiDragon · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:13:33 AM

Dragonite
Typing: Dragon / Flying
Base Stats: HP: 91 / Atk: 134 / Def: 95 / Spd: 80 / Sp. Atk: 100 / Sp. Def: 100
Ability: Inner Focus: Dragonite cannot be flinched
Sense 3rd gen this has always been Dragonite’s standard ability. It was useless as an ability that gen. In 4th gen however, draognite found a small niche with it. It's able to take on Flinch hax abusers like Jirachi and Togekiss and get them with stats or ko them outright. However, bar abuse check, this ability was useless.

Dream World Ability: Multi Scale: Dragonite takes 50% less damage when at full health.
When people saw this ability was on Dragonite, there were mixed views about it. Troll Freak does it again. Will our bulky Dragon ever see itself beyond Salamence’s Shadow? Now those views are all but gone as Multi Scale turns out to be a legitimate ability for Dragonite. What makes this ability truely useful is that it can be used again and again as long as Dragonite is at max health. While this can be kinda hard to achive with entry hazard, Dragonite can make use of Roost to heal itself back to full health. This makes for a defensive niche that Dragonite has been fighting for Sense 4th Gen.

Illegal Moves with Multi Scale

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Level Up Move Data:

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Egg Move Data

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TM Move Data

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TM01 - Claw Sharpen, TM02 - Dragon Claw, TM05 - Roar, TM06 - Toxic, TM07 - Hail, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM13 - Ice Beam, TM14 - Blizzard, TM15 - Hyper Beam, TM16 - Light Screen, TM17 - Protect, TM18 - Rain Dance, TM20 - Safeguard, TM21 - Frustration, TM24 - Thunderbolt, TM25 - Thunder, TM26 - Earthquake, TM27 - Return, TM31 - Brick Break, TM32 - Double Team, TM35 - Flamethower, TM37 - Sandstorm, TM38 - Fire Blast , TM39 - Rock Tomb, TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM42 - Facade, TM44 - Rest, TM45 - Attract, TM48 - Troll, TM52 - Focus Blast, TM56 - Fling, TM58 - Free Fall, TM59 - Complete Burn, TM68 - Giga Impact, TM71 - Stone Edge, TM73 - Thunder Wave, TM78 - Level Ground (Smooth Over), TM80 - Rock Slide, TM82 - Dragon Tail, TM87 - Swagger, TM90 - Substitute, TM94 - Rock Smash, HM01 - Cut, HM02 - Fly, HM03 - Surf, HM04 - Strength, HM05 - Waterfall, HM06 - Dive

New TM Move Data

TM01 - Claw Sharpen: Increases Atk and Acc by 1 Stage.
This move is, in the end, a less powerful Dragon Dance. Not increasing Speed but focusing on very powerful an inaccurate attacks. That's good on some pokemon but on Dragonite, who is in dire need of speed, cannot use this move to sweep and expect to go places.

TM48 - Sing-a-round / Troll: If more than one pokemon uses this move at a time it increases in power. Special / BP 60 / Acc 100
This move deserves an honorable mention as proof that Troll Freak is a FUKCING TROLL!!!!

TM58 - Freefall: Picks the target up for 1 turn then Drops them. The pokemon this move is used on cannot use a move during the first turn. Physical / BP 60 / Acc 100
This move doesn't really seem like something usefull outside of double and triple battles.

TM59 - Incinerate / Complete Burn: Destroys held Berries. Special / BP 30 / ACC 100
This move is useless. There's no reason to use this move as No berries are really a threat to Dragonite.

TM78 - Level Ground: May Lower the target's speed 1 stage. Physical / BP 60 / Acc 100
This move may find some uses but in the end Dragon Dance and earthquake make this move useless.

Move Sets

Bulky Dragon Dance
Dragonite @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Multi Scale
Nature: Impish / Adamant
Evs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 Spd
~ Dragon Claw
~ Earthquake
~ Dragon Dance
~ Roost
Last Gen this Set showed Dragonite's niche as a BulkyDD which gave it something over Salamence. This Gen sparks a return of this set but with a fun, new, and very useful ability to play with. The set up is much the same. Come in on something mid to late game, set up 1 or 2 DD, and sweep. However, this set plays a little differently when you start to set up. Playing around with roost to keep getting those DD's up get's much easier with Dragonite's new Multi Scale ability. This make's the set much more bulky and MUCH more dangerous.

The Choice of item comes down to preference as neither really outweighs the other. Leftovers should be used if you want to get back up to 100% easily or to negate the damage from sandstorm. Lum Berry is for the cautious. Those who are having trouble with status hax while setting up should use the berry.

XxbreadonxX Set
Chopsticks @ Life Orb
Ability: Multi Scale / Inner Focus
Nature: Rash
Evs: 252 SpA, 72 Atk, 184 Spd
-Dragon Dance
-Thunder / Fire Blast
-Windstorm
-Outrage / Superpower
This set, Created by XxbreadonxX aims to abuse Dragonite's large movepool and brand new weather niche.

Maximizing SpA is a priority, as that is his main method of attacking. 184 Spe EVs allow for 363 Spe after a DD, the minimun to outrun + Base 115 pokemon (eg Starmie and its ice beam). The rest is dumped into Attack to power up the final move, either outrage or Superpower. Outrage is to eliminate other dragons, and only for that reason, while Superpower has the main role of eliminating Blissey (ALWAYS an OHKO- 116% min on Max HP/Def Bold Blissey with +1. 77.6- 91.3 with no boost) as well as checking Heatran, Tyranitar, and other Fighting- weak pokemon. Though ive never seen one, +1 Superpower does 82.1-96.6% to max HP/Def Snorlax.

Outrage is prefered over Superpower for STAB and actual use of Multi Scale while Superpower offers better versitility. Thunder is prefered over Fire Blast to better abuse Rain Dance while Fire Blast can be used for more near perfect coverage with outrage and abuse in opposing Sun teams.

Final Thoughts

Dragonite has had alot of trouble fitting in sense 3rd gen came along. All the new dragons have either had a better stat's spread, better typing, or both. While Dragonite has always shined with a better movepool and bulk than it's counterparts, it could never really find a way to abuse that. Now 5th gen has come along and given dragonite that much needed push to becoming what it truely is. A bulky set up sweeper. Will this give people a reason to use Dragonite when 5th gen is filled with super powered attacking dragon freaks Like Ononokusu? Only time will tell.

GLS · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:19:30 AM

I can't think of much reason to ever run Aqua Jet over ES. What do you need to hit a steel type with aqua jet for a neutral hit when you could hit them with EQ for a SE hit?

giggity69 · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:24:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat GLS

I can't think of much reason to ever run Aqua Jet over ES. What do you need to hit a steel type with aqua jet for a neutral hit when you could hit them with EQ for a SE hit?

Shandera is the only reason I can think of, but even then, a +1 unstabbed aqua jet will not ohko 4/0 shandera after SR

KurashiDragon · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:25:36 AM

Because unlike earthquake it has priority which gives is an advantage against oh lets say Ice Shard Weavile at +1 while still being able to nutreal hit steels. Extremespeed's main reason it wasn't on a DD set was because of this.

GLS · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:27:27 AM

Aqua Jet and Ice shard have the same priority. While as ES actually has a higher priority now. So you can hit those Weaviles and Mamoswine or whatevers without even having to take the Ice Shard.

Lord Jesseus · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:30:27 AM

Neutral Extremespeed has the same power as super effective Aqua Jet (and of course NVE Extremespeed has the same power as neutral Aqua Jet), and higher priority to help against weavile. Aqua Jet is really only useful against ghosts and things that both resist normal and are weak to water (eg Rock types).
But in the end ES hits steels just as hard as Aqua Jet and most other things harder.

XxbraedonxX · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:32:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Lord Jesseus

Neutral Extremespeed has the same power as super effective Aqua Jet (and of course NVE Extremespeed has the same power as neutral Aqua Jet), and higher priority to help against weavile. Aqua Jet is really only useful against ghosts and things that both resist normal and are weak to water (can't think of any at off the top of my head).

ScarfTar says whut?

GLS · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:33:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat XxbraedonxX

ScarfTar says whut?

Dragonite is faster after a DD and OHKOs with EQ anyway, doesn't it?

Lord Jesseus · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:34:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat XxbraedonxX

ScarfTar says whut?

Yeah lol I forgot rock types, edited my post.

KurashiDragon · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:35:09 AM

Guys, I do get where your coming from I really do. Aqua Jet is weaker and is outprioritized by extremespeed but aqua jet does have an advantage in being able to nutreal Steels. As I said in the op extremespeeds problem in dd teams was the fact that it couldn't nutreal steels. The fact is extremespeed has terrible type coverage while aqua jet does not. That's probably why Game Freak decided to put aqua jet as an egg move anyway.

XxbraedonxX · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:38:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat GLS

Dragonite is faster after a DD and OHKOs with EQ anyway, doesn't it?

Depends on how bulky a Dragonite you use I guess. Some people use really bulky ones in order to attempt to get 2DDs in no probs. if Scarftar comes in halfway through setting up, AQUA JET!!!! nanananananana!

but its pretty much useless besides that. unless CS Heatran outspeeds the variation being used

Kibago · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:39:44 AM

Poor Dragonite. He's always getting shafted.

I think Multi Scale could help a bit on the Anti-Lead, which is slower then a lot of enemy leads - it'll shave off less of your HP with their first attack, giving you more HP to spare for Life Orb recoil/taking weak attacks.

Lord Jesseus · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:41:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat KurashiDragon

Guys, I do get where your coming from I really do. Aqua Jet is weaker and is outprioritized by extremespeed but aqua jet does have an advantage in being able to nutreal Steels.

But NVE Extremespeed has the same power as neutral Aqua Jet.
Against Rocks and ghosts your point is valid but against most steel types it is not, other than heatran, but +1 Dnite outspeeds ScarfTran If I'm not mistaken and ohkos with earthquake.

KurashiDragon · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:42:15 AM

@Kibago

OBJECTION!!!! Dragonite can make good use of multi scale with it's bulkyDD set. Multi scale was MADE to make Dragonite more bulky. Don't guess Game Freaks intentions just yet. You may be plesently surprised.

Not Scicky · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:42:28 AM

@KurashiDragon: The problem is, Extremespeed still has the same power as aqua jet even if it's resisted. The only difference would be against like. Rock/Steel types.

GLS · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:44:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Scicky

@KurashiDragon: The problem is, Extremespeed still has the same power as aqua jet even if it's resisted. The only difference would be against like. Rock/Steel types.

And even then why wouldn't you just EQ them since they are usually very slow and hopefully you have a DD under your belt already.

**ginganinja** · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:46:36 AM

yeah agreeing with the other on Aqua Jet being outclassed by Extreme Speed. Also personally I would run those 48 Def EVs on the Bulky set and but them on Atk to hit harder

XxbraedonxX · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:48:17 AM

TO SETTLE ALL ARGUMENTS:

Aqua jet will be mainly used for Supportnite, EXTRA Bulky (read: meant for 2 DDs and cant outspeed Scarftar or Scarftran after one DD) sweeper, or Bulky sweeper with some EVs switched from Spe to Atk for extra damage

IS THIS SOMETHING WE CAN AGREE ON?
If so, we can get back to designing teams for the original dragon, now (in my eyes) the ultimate BULKY sweeper (meaning NOT FRAIL)

KurashiDragon · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:54:00 AM

Alright guys. I get it alright. Jeez OPing me doesn't solve problems. I'm a newb in competitive battling. lol. I get what you guys are telling me I really do but I'm not willing to put Aqua Jet out on a Limb just yet. If you guys are so sure aqua jet is useless find a use for it.

@ Ginganinja The bulky set is one of the few that can take advantage of it's new ability. I personally would like that def stats so it can take hits better when at 100%.

Guys, I'm still looking for a possible set with that something new. Change the moves around give stats but my idea must stay. Dragon Tail gives it the ability to scout and stall. There's gotta be a way to use it.

GLS · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:54:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat XxbraedonxX

TO SETTLE ALL ARGUMENTS:

Aqua jet will be mainly used for Supportnite, EXTRA Bulky (read: meant for 2 DDs and cant outspeed Scarftar or Scarftran after one DD) sweeper, or Bulky sweeper with some EVs switched from Spe to Atk for extra damage

IS THIS SOMETHING WE CAN AGREE ON?
If so, we can get back to designing teams for the original dragon, now (in my eyes) the ultimate BULKY sweeper (meaning NOT FRAIL)

I still fail to see the point of running a pure bulk Dragonite set that isn't Bulky enough to live long enough to get 2 DD when you can make a moderately bulky Dragonite that only needs 1 DD to function.

WarriorPrince · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:57:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat XxbraedonxX

TO SETTLE ALL ARGUMENTS:

Aqua jet will be mainly used for Supportnite, EXTRA Bulky (read: meant for 2 DDs and cant outspeed Scarftar or Scarftran after one DD) sweeper, or Bulky sweeper with some EVs switched from Spe to Atk for extra damage

IS THIS SOMETHING WE CAN AGREE ON?
If so, we can get back to designing teams for the original dragon, now (in my eyes) the ultimate BULKY sweeper (meaning NOT FRAIL)

I don't agree. Aqua would still fail to significantly damage those pokemon. +2 Max Attack Adamant LO Dragonite fails to OHKO Heatran or Tyranitar with Aqua Jet. Sorry bud, Aqua Jet just doesn't have the power. Extremespeed[the highest priority damaging attack], on the other hand is capable of OHKOing quite a few pokemon attempting to revenge you with a choice Scarf/Priority. Support Dragonite shoudn't even be worrying about trying to use priority anyhow.

Gamefreak should have just made attacks do less damage the more HP Dragonite has or just given it Marvel Scale.

KurashiDragon · Sep 20th, 2010, 12:59:22 AM

Ok guys can we change the subject? Unless someone is willing to find use for this apparentally useless move.

Lez discuss its new ability and the impact it might have on potential movesets dragonite will get in the future.

XxbraedonxX · Sep 20th, 2010, 1:00:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat GLS

I still fail to see the point of running a pure bulk Dragonite set that isn't Bulky enough to live long enough to get 2 DD when you can make a moderately bulky Dragonite that only needs 1 DD to function.

I've totally done it. swept an entire team 6-0 with Dragonite as my lead. Yache berry even let it survive an ice attack :) DDance + Roost + Dragon Claw + Thunder Punch.

granted, this was on a team that had very little to protect it from infernape, and was very much used to absorb a hit taking next to no damage, scare him out while ddancing, and survive a second hit for a second ddance. KO the poke, roost a few time on the next poke that cant counter quite as well, and sweep team. In midsweep, it just wasnt taken down at all by priority. i loved it

XxbraedonxX · Sep 20th, 2010, 1:17:04 AM

Support Set Pulled Out Of My Ass:

Dragonite@Yache Berry/Leftovers
Multi Scale
Careful nature
156 HP, 156 SpD, 196 Def
-Dragon Tail
-Roost
-T Wave/ Toxic/ Heal bell?
-" "/ES/Aqua Jet

would have dloved Lanturn support in G4, since it could absorb an ice beam and send back a tbolt at the (most likely) water poke
who could fill in this role this gen?

**ginganinja** · Sep 20th, 2010, 1:38:28 AM

I can still see an Agility set working well. Granted you lose some attack power but you can outspeed more sets.

Btw what does Windstorm do?

Sep 20th, 2010, 12:13:33 AM	#1
KurashiDragon Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 754 Where the dragons take me.	Dragonite Dragonite Typing: Dragon / Flying Base Stats: HP: 91 / Atk: 134 / Def: 95 / Spd: 80 / Sp. Atk: 100 / Sp. Def: 100 Ability: Inner Focus: Dragonite cannot be flinched Sense 3rd gen this has always been Dragonite’s standard ability. It was useless as an ability that gen. In 4th gen however, draognite found a small niche with it. It's able to take on Flinch hax abusers like Jirachi and Togekiss and get them with stats or ko them outright. However, bar abuse check, this ability was useless. Dream World Ability: Multi Scale: Dragonite takes 50% less damage when at full health. When people saw this ability was on Dragonite, there were mixed views about it. Troll Freak does it again. Will our bulky Dragon ever see itself beyond Salamence’s Shadow? Now those views are all but gone as Multi Scale turns out to be a legitimate ability for Dragonite. What makes this ability truely useful is that it can be used again and again as long as Dragonite is at max health. While this can be kinda hard to achive with entry hazard, Dragonite can make use of Roost to heal itself back to full health. This makes for a defensive niche that Dragonite has been fighting for Sense 4th Gen. Illegal Moves with Multi Scale ... Air Cutter Fury Cutter Ice Punch Icy Wind Ominous Wind Snore Swift Heat Wave Iron Head Mud Slap Superpower Twister Notable Illegal Moves Superpower: It seems unfortunate but it's true. Superpower is a move tutor move of 4th gen which means it's illegal with Multi Scale. This means that the anti lead set, which people predict'd would be good with Multi Scale will have to do without. Level Up Move Data: ... Lv1: Fire Punch, Lv1: ThunderPunch, Lv1: Roost, Lv1: Wrap, Lv1: Leer, Lv1: Thunder Wave, Lv1: Twister, Lv5: Thunder Wave, Lv11: Twister, Lv15: Dragon Rage, Lv21: Slam, Lv25: Agility, Lv33: Dragon Tail, Lv39: Aqua Tail, Lv47: Dragon Rush, Lv53: Safeguard, Lv55: Wing Attack, Lv61: Dragon Dance, Lv67: Outrage, Lv75: Hyper Beam, Lv81: Gale (Windstorm) New Level Up Move Data Lv: 33 Dragon Tail: Always Moves last however if this move connects with the target, it is switched out. Physical / BP 60 / Acc 90 Dragonite has never filled the holes of a phasor niche because it never had a good way to abuse that. However, now that it has a defensive niche it can, in theory, make a Phasor niche as a biproduct. With Multi Scale this could be useful. Lv 81 Gale / Windstorm: May Confuse target. 30% / Increases Accuracy to 100% in rain. Special / BP: 120 / Acc: 70 To those that have been on Serebii you'd see this move being called Gale with a confusion effect. However, to those who rely on Smogon You'd see this move being called Windstorm with a 100% acc in rain effect. This explanation will be under the assumption that Smogon's effect will be at least part of the effect. Dragonite now turns towards a new niche as a weather Dragon. Unfortunatally, this niche is currently occupied by Kingdra who's better ability and STAB water makes it the "King" of Rain Abuse. However, Dragonite has it's own Moves in weather as well due to better overall Base Stats and movepool. Mabye it'll be able to make it in this weather dominated Meta game. Egg Move Data ... Mist, Haze, Supersonic, DragonBreath, Dragon Dance, Dragon Rush, ExtremeSpeed, Water Pulse, Aqua Jet, Dragon Pulse, Iron Tail New Egg Move Data Aqua Jet: +1 Priority. Physical / BP 40 / Acc 100 5th gen brought a new priority in Dragonite with Aqua Jet. This move might help Dragonite as a rain abuser with a power up in the rain. However, beyond that it's a weaker Extremespeed. Dragon Pulse: No added effect. Special / BP 90 / Acc 100 I believe this move became an egg move because it's not a TM anymore. Whatever the case this move isn't useful. Iron Tail: May Lower Target's Def by 1 Stage. Physical / BP 100 / Acc 75 As well as Dragon Pulse, this move became an egg move because it's not a tm anymore. Unlike Dragon Pulse however, This move might prove useful. It's powerful but inaccurate. This move might find some use if combined with Claw Sharpen but that's pretty much it. TM Move Data ... TM01 - Claw Sharpen, TM02 - Dragon Claw, TM05 - Roar, TM06 - Toxic, TM07 - Hail, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM13 - Ice Beam, TM14 - Blizzard, TM15 - Hyper Beam, TM16 - Light Screen, TM17 - Protect, TM18 - Rain Dance, TM20 - Safeguard, TM21 - Frustration, TM24 - Thunderbolt, TM25 - Thunder, TM26 - Earthquake, TM27 - Return, TM31 - Brick Break, TM32 - Double Team, TM35 - Flamethower, TM37 - Sandstorm, TM38 - Fire Blast , TM39 - Rock Tomb, TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM42 - Facade, TM44 - Rest, TM45 - Attract, TM48 - Troll, TM52 - Focus Blast, TM56 - Fling, TM58 - Free Fall, TM59 - Complete Burn, TM68 - Giga Impact, TM71 - Stone Edge, TM73 - Thunder Wave, TM78 - Level Ground (Smooth Over), TM80 - Rock Slide, TM82 - Dragon Tail, TM87 - Swagger, TM90 - Substitute, TM94 - Rock Smash, HM01 - Cut, HM02 - Fly, HM03 - Surf, HM04 - Strength, HM05 - Waterfall, HM06 - Dive New TM Move Data TM01 - Claw Sharpen: Increases Atk and Acc by 1 Stage. This move is, in the end, a less powerful Dragon Dance. Not increasing Speed but focusing on very powerful an inaccurate attacks. That's good on some pokemon but on Dragonite, who is in dire need of speed, cannot use this move to sweep and expect to go places. TM48 - Sing-a-round / Troll: If more than one pokemon uses this move at a time it increases in power. Special / BP 60 / Acc 100 This move deserves an honorable mention as proof that Troll Freak is a FUKCING TROLL!!!! TM58 - Freefall: Picks the target up for 1 turn then Drops them. The pokemon this move is used on cannot use a move during the first turn. Physical / BP 60 / Acc 100 This move doesn't really seem like something usefull outside of double and triple battles. TM59 - Incinerate / Complete Burn: Destroys held Berries. Special / BP 30 / ACC 100 This move is useless. There's no reason to use this move as No berries are really a threat to Dragonite. TM78 - Level Ground: May Lower the target's speed 1 stage. Physical / BP 60 / Acc 100 This move may find some uses but in the end Dragon Dance and earthquake make this move useless. Move Sets Bulky Dragon Dance Dragonite @ Leftovers / Lum Berry Ability: Multi Scale Nature: Impish / Adamant Evs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 Spd ~ Dragon Claw ~ Earthquake ~ Dragon Dance ~ Roost Last Gen this Set showed Dragonite's niche as a BulkyDD which gave it something over Salamence. This Gen sparks a return of this set but with a fun, new, and very useful ability to play with. The set up is much the same. Come in on something mid to late game, set up 1 or 2 DD, and sweep. However, this set plays a little differently when you start to set up. Playing around with roost to keep getting those DD's up get's much easier with Dragonite's new Multi Scale ability. This make's the set much more bulky and MUCH more dangerous. The Choice of item comes down to preference as neither really outweighs the other. Leftovers should be used if you want to get back up to 100% easily or to negate the damage from sandstorm. Lum Berry is for the cautious. Those who are having trouble with status hax while setting up should use the berry. XxbreadonxX Set Chopsticks @ Life Orb Ability: Multi Scale / Inner Focus Nature: Rash Evs: 252 SpA, 72 Atk, 184 Spd -Dragon Dance -Thunder / Fire Blast -Windstorm -Outrage / Superpower This set, Created by XxbreadonxX aims to abuse Dragonite's large movepool and brand new weather niche. Maximizing SpA is a priority, as that is his main method of attacking. 184 Spe EVs allow for 363 Spe after a DD, the minimun to outrun + Base 115 pokemon (eg Starmie and its ice beam). The rest is dumped into Attack to power up the final move, either outrage or Superpower. Outrage is to eliminate other dragons, and only for that reason, while Superpower has the main role of eliminating Blissey (ALWAYS an OHKO- 116% min on Max HP/Def Bold Blissey with +1. 77.6- 91.3 with no boost) as well as checking Heatran, Tyranitar, and other Fighting- weak pokemon. Though ive never seen one, +1 Superpower does 82.1-96.6% to max HP/Def Snorlax. Outrage is prefered over Superpower for STAB and actual use of Multi Scale while Superpower offers better versitility. Thunder is prefered over Fire Blast to better abuse Rain Dance while Fire Blast can be used for more near perfect coverage with outrage and abuse in opposing Sun teams. Final Thoughts Dragonite has had alot of trouble fitting in sense 3rd gen came along. All the new dragons have either had a better stat's spread, better typing, or both. While Dragonite has always shined with a better movepool and bulk than it's counterparts, it could never really find a way to abuse that. Now 5th gen has come along and given dragonite that much needed push to becoming what it truely is. A bulky set up sweeper. Will this give people a reason to use Dragonite when 5th gen is filled with super powered attacking dragon freaks Like Ononokusu? Only time will tell. Last edited by KurashiDragon; Nov 16th, 2010 at 12:24:36 AM.

Sep 20th, 2010, 12:30:27 AM	#6
Lord Jesseus Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,563 Australia!	Neutral Extremespeed has the same power as super effective Aqua Jet (and of course NVE Extremespeed has the same power as neutral Aqua Jet), and higher priority to help against weavile. Aqua Jet is really only useful against ghosts and things that both resist normal and are weak to water (eg Rock types). But in the end ES hits steels just as hard as Aqua Jet and most other things harder. __________________ ASB Profile

Sep 20th, 2010, 12:39:44 AM	#12
Kibago Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 46 Toronto	Poor Dragonite. He's always getting shafted. I think Multi Scale could help a bit on the Anti-Lead, which is slower then a lot of enemy leads - it'll shave off less of your HP with their first attack, giving you more HP to spare for Life Orb recoil/taking weak attacks. __________________ use Meloetta. trust me. she's awesome. Pokemon Showdown records: OU - 1733 / 79% / 1839(71) / 45-16-0

Sep 20th, 2010, 12:42:28 AM	#15
Not Scicky Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,311 Bland Juicer	@KurashiDragon: The problem is, Extremespeed still has the same power as aqua jet even if it's resisted. The only difference would be against like. Rock/Steel types. __________________ And I was gone.

Sep 20th, 2010, 12:46:36 AM	#17
ginganinja Delena 4ever Moderator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,087 In Love	yeah agreeing with the other on Aqua Jet being outclassed by Extreme Speed. Also personally I would run those 48 Def EVs on the Bulky set and but them on Atk to hit harder __________________

Sep 20th, 2010, 12:19:30 AM	#2
GLS Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 113	I can't think of much reason to ever run Aqua Jet over ES. What do you need to hit a steel type with aqua jet for a neutral hit when you could hit them with EQ for a SE hit?

Sep 20th, 2010, 12:25:36 AM	#4
KurashiDragon Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 754 Where the dragons take me.	Because unlike earthquake it has priority which gives is an advantage against oh lets say Ice Shard Weavile at +1 while still being able to nutreal hit steels. Extremespeed's main reason it wasn't on a DD set was because of this.

Sep 20th, 2010, 12:27:27 AM	#5
GLS Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 113	Aqua Jet and Ice shard have the same priority. While as ES actually has a higher priority now. So you can hit those Weaviles and Mamoswine or whatevers without even having to take the Ice Shard.

Sep 20th, 2010, 12:35:09 AM	#10
KurashiDragon Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 754 Where the dragons take me.	Guys, I do get where your coming from I really do. Aqua Jet is weaker and is outprioritized by extremespeed but aqua jet does have an advantage in being able to nutreal Steels. As I said in the op extremespeeds problem in dd teams was the fact that it couldn't nutreal steels. The fact is extremespeed has terrible type coverage while aqua jet does not. That's probably why Game Freak decided to put aqua jet as an egg move anyway.

Sep 20th, 2010, 12:42:15 AM	#14
KurashiDragon Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 754 Where the dragons take me.	@Kibago OBJECTION!!!! Dragonite can make good use of multi scale with it's bulkyDD set. Multi scale was MADE to make Dragonite more bulky. Don't guess Game Freaks intentions just yet. You may be plesently surprised.

Sep 20th, 2010, 12:48:17 AM	#18
XxbraedonxX Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 99	TO SETTLE ALL ARGUMENTS: Aqua jet will be mainly used for Supportnite, EXTRA Bulky (read: meant for 2 DDs and cant outspeed Scarftar or Scarftran after one DD) sweeper, or Bulky sweeper with some EVs switched from Spe to Atk for extra damage IS THIS SOMETHING WE CAN AGREE ON? If so, we can get back to designing teams for the original dragon, now (in my eyes) the ultimate BULKY sweeper (meaning NOT FRAIL)

Sep 20th, 2010, 12:54:00 AM	#19
KurashiDragon Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 754 Where the dragons take me.	Alright guys. I get it alright. Jeez OPing me doesn't solve problems. I'm a newb in competitive battling. lol. I get what you guys are telling me I really do but I'm not willing to put Aqua Jet out on a Limb just yet. If you guys are so sure aqua jet is useless find a use for it. @ Ginganinja The bulky set is one of the few that can take advantage of it's new ability. I personally would like that def stats so it can take hits better when at 100%. Guys, I'm still looking for a possible set with that something new. Change the moves around give stats but my idea must stay. Dragon Tail gives it the ability to scout and stall. There's gotta be a way to use it.

Sep 20th, 2010, 12:59:22 AM	#22
KurashiDragon Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 754 Where the dragons take me.	Ok guys can we change the subject? Unless someone is willing to find use for this apparentally useless move. Lez discuss its new ability and the impact it might have on potential movesets dragonite will get in the future.

Sep 20th, 2010, 1:17:04 AM	#24
XxbraedonxX Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 99	Support Set Pulled Out Of My Ass: Dragonite@Yache Berry/Leftovers Multi Scale Careful nature 156 HP, 156 SpD, 196 Def -Dragon Tail -Roost -T Wave/ Toxic/ Heal bell? -" "/ES/Aqua Jet would have dloved Lanturn support in G4, since it could absorb an ice beam and send back a tbolt at the (most likely) water poke who could fill in this role this gen?

Sep 20th, 2010, 1:38:28 AM	#25
ginganinja Delena 4ever Moderator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,087 In Love	I can still see an Agility set working well. Granted you lose some attack power but you can outspeed more sets. Btw what does Windstorm do? __________________