Starmie

[Axa]

Hey, why haven't you gotten a thread yet?





60/75/85/100/85/115

Abilities:
Natural Cure: Ailments are cured upon switching.
Illuminate: Increases chance of encountering Wild Pokemon. (Useless)
Analyze (Dream World): Increases power of moves if moving after opponent.

Since Analyze is practically a waste unless using it in some weird gimmick Trick Room or very bulky slow Starmie, this means we can generally focus on using Starmie in all its 4th gen glory with its new moves learned in 5th gen.

New moves gained in Gen V:
Psycho Shock
Boiling Water
Mirror Type
Telekensis
Canon

Starmie's new moves are tiny, but still ultimately useful. Psycho Shock and Boiling Water are both huge for the shining star. The other 3 aren't quite as great though.

LOMie
Natural Cure
252SAtk, 240Spd, 18HP
Life Orb
Timid
~Ice Beam/Rapid Spin
~Hydro Pump/Surf/Boiling Water
~Thunderbolt
~Psycho Shock/HP Fire/Recover/Rapid Spin

Starmie's biggest gain was Psycho Shock, which lets it pulverize physically weak opponents (hi Chansey). Psychic is becoming a more valuable offensive type due to all the Fighters running around.

Starmie really needs Hydro Pump/Surf for power over Boiling Water here. I don't have the calculations to see how much power Starmie loses for running Boiling Water though. One can still run Rapid Spin and Recover both over Ice Beam to function similarly to the old Rapid Spin set, swapping in Boiling Water as its STAB attack. Starmie also enjoys blasting the two biggest new Ghosts, Burungeru and Shandera for SE damage with Hydro Pump and Tbolt. HP Fire also allows Starmie to severly dent Scizor, Forretress and Nattorei.

Starmie runs 240Spd with Timid to outrun Timid Jaroda, but it's still possible to run 252 to speed-tie with other Starmie as well as Azelf.

Star of Choice
252SpA, 252Spd, 4HP
Timid
Choice Scarf/Specs
~Surf
~Ice Beam
~Thunderbolt
~Trick/Psycho Shock/HP Fire

Functionally similar to the old Choice sets. Starmie now has the option of running Psycho Shock to nail physically weak opponents. HP Fire hammers Scizor and Nattorei.

I was thinking of running a bulky Starmie which runs just enough speed to outrun Breloom and using Boiling Water, but I can't really work out the spread for it.

[Limewire]

More data for your convenience:

Level-up Moves:

Lv1: Water Gun
Lv1: Rapid Spin
Lv1: Recover
Lv1: Swift
Lv28: Confuse Ray

Pre-Evo Moves:

Lv1: Tackle
Lv1: Harden
Lv6: Water Gun
Lv10: Rapid Spin
Lv15: Recover
Lv19: Camouflage
Lv24: Swift
Lv28: Bubblebeam
Lv33: Minimize
Lv37: Gyro Ball
Lv42: Light Screen
Lv46: Mirror Type
Lv51: Power Gem
Lv55: Cosmic Power
Lv60: Hydro Pump

TM/HM Moves:

TM03 - Psycho Shock
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM19 - Telekinesis
TM21 - Frustration
TM24 - Thunderbolt
TM25 - Thunder
TM27 - Return
TM29 - Psychic
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM48 - Troll
TM55 - Boiling Water
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM77 - Psych Up
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM86 - Grass Knot
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM92 - Trick Room
HM03 - Surf
HM05 - Waterfall
HM06 - Dive

With Nattories running all over the place, I think it might be a good idea to run HP Fire on the LO/Choice sets. This might make Starmie one of the few pokemon who laughs at those damn Nattorie/Burunguru cores.

Originally Posted by Fat Axa

I was thinking of running a bulky Starmie which runs just enough speed to outrun Breloom and using Boiling Water, but I can't really work out the spread for it.

Actually, I think 0 speed, neutral nature Starmie outspeeds Jolly Breloom by 4 points (and I've never seen a scarfLoom on the PO servers before). You might want to put 12 EVs in speed though, 'cause that will allow to outrun 0 speed Erufuun. I suck at defensive EVs, though =/

[Sajak]

Originally Posted by Fat Limewire

Actually, I think 0 speed, neutral nature Starmie outspeeds Jolly Breloom by 4 points (and I've never seen a scarfLoom on the PO servers before). You might want to put 12 EVs in speed though, 'cause that will allow to outrun 0 speed Erufuun. I suck at defensive EVs, though =/

You always max HP, put the EVs in whatever you need, then the rest goes into the Defensive stat(s).

[Server_Crash]

I think that Starmie can run a stall breaking set this generation:
Starmie @ Choice Specs
Timid Nature
4 HP, 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed
-Trick
-Psycho Shock
-Hydro Pump
-Thunderbolt/ HP Fire/ Ice beam

This would allow Starmie to cripple a wall with trick, or run right through it with specs boosted attacks. Psycho Shock also allows it to go 'mixed' and run through Chansey/Blissey. Thoughts?

[cosmicexplorer]

Life Orb Starmie is absolutely awesome. It outspeeds almost all of the new pokemon, while retaining its awesome coverage and STAB. It also gets Psycho Shock. I haven't actually used Psycho Shock very extensively, but on paper, it's awesome. 2HKOing Blissey after SR? Yes please.

[Firest0rm]

what do u think of this moveset?
200 sp, 252 sp.a, 58 sp. d
timid
w/ Leftovers
~Psychic/Psycho Shock
~Hydro Pump/Surf/Boiling Water
~Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Power Gem
~Recover
Psychic is better than Psycho Shock due to slightly higher base power, even with STAB. Hydro Pump is a reliable move and better than Surf if it has Max PP(8). However, Boiling Water can burn the foe and if it does, it is better in the long term. T-bolt and Ice Beam are better than Power Gem, but Power Gem gets crits a lot. Thunderbolt can OHKO Gyarados or Skarmory but Ice Beam can OHKO Flygon, Dragonite, Gliscor, and Breloom. Power Gem is not so good in OU but better in UU and NU. Some Sp. D is needed to utilize Recover if a scarfed pokemon or Jolteon comes out.
PLZ comment on this moveset.

[Oh My Biscuits]

Originally Posted by Fat Firest0rm

what do u think of this moveset?
200 sp, 252 sp.a, 58 sp. d
timid
w/ Leftovers
~Psychic/Psycho Shock
~Hydro Pump/Surf/Boiling Water
~Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Power Gem
~Recover
Psychic is better than Psycho Shock due to slightly higher base power, even with STAB. Hydro Pump is a reliable move and better than Surf if it has Max PP(8). However, Boiling Water can burn the foe and if it does, it is better in the long term. T-bolt and Ice Beam are better than Power Gem, but Power Gem gets crits a lot. Thunderbolt can OHKO Gyarados or Skarmory but Ice Beam can OHKO Flygon, Dragonite, Gliscor, and Breloom. Power Gem is not so good in OU but better in UU and NU. Some Sp. D is needed to utilize Recover if a scarfed pokemon or Jolteon comes out.
PLZ comment on this moveset.

Power Gem doesn't have an added effect. Maybe you're just getting lucky. And Life Orb might be more useful than Leftovers. Psycho Shock would be useful for Blissey, but it really doesn't have any other use. Maybe HP Fire should be used there so people can beat Nattorei.

[Server_Crash]

firest0rm, that set makes not a lot of sense. First off, spell things out, we're not texting each other. Second, why run lefties AND recover on an offensive Starmie; run life orb so you get added power and recovery. Why put special defense EV's on it? Just run 252/252 or put them in HP if you really need to be different. Psychic has poor coverage, so either run thunderbolt/ice beam/ HP fire in that slot, or psycho shock if you want to break walls. Boiling water is meant for tanks/walls as it is weaker, so use surf/hydro pump and pick whichever you like. In competitive, every move's PP is maxed, FYI. Again, Power gem sucks, so use the third slot to complement whatever you used in the first slot. At this point, your set has become pretty generic.

[boyofrito]

I've always ran HP fire on my starmie. it was my little surprise for Scizor switch-INS, but now it looks like everyone is gonna be doing it now. :( frowny face

[Jiggy]

I wouldn't say Analyze is a total waste. Maybe not as good as Natural Cure and Trick combined, but it does help take down Dragonite after a Dragon Dance or ExtremeSpeed, guarantees that a 0 or 4 Special Attack spinner Starmie's Surf will eliminate Doryuuzu, does more damage to Scarf Garchomp, hits Shell Break users or recipients harder, beats up on a Lucario without a Dark move who has to use ExtremeSpeed, hits Voltolos harder if he predicts Starmie switching and tries to use up Nasty Plot (since Mischievous Heart will have him going first), and stops Starmie from being total dead weight against Trick Room teams.

Granted that a lot of those can deal huge damage to a no-defense build and for some of them Starmie might even need screens in play depending how healthy it is, but the point is that it's not like Analyze has no potential value at all.


Edit: Actually, Voltolos is kind of a bad example since it needs Light Screen or investment to take Ice Beam anyway, but the rest apply.

[Axa]

I've slashed in HP Fire on the sets.

Is there any use for a DS Starmie?

Starmie@Light Clay
Natural Cure/Analyze
252HP, 240Spd, 16SpA
~Light Screen
~Reflect
~Rest/Recover
~Boiling Water

Concept is pretty simple, actually. Screens, heal as needed, BW a bit for burn hax. Rest goes with Natural Cure, obviously.

I don't know the boost for Analyze, so that I'm a bit iffy about, but it seems like it would benefit Starmie in a lead position. Starmie hits Lead Aerodactyl with 16SpA with Boiling Water for 74.4-87.7% damage without any sort of boost. If Analyze is a 20% boost that goes up to 89-105%, which is actually pretty impressive, since if it burns Aerodactly it'll have gone down in one turn. You'd probably flat out lose against Roserade, though.

[Server_Crash]

If you run rest, you definitely need natural cure. It also is not trying to do damage, just burn hax. It seems a little gimmicky on paper, because Starmie is frail even with dual screens, but correct prediction or a switch could give Starmie ample opportunity to set them up. I do think that dual screening is still handled better by bulkier pokemon like uxie or bronzong.

[Wafflez]

Yah LO starmie worked splendidly for me as well.It outspeeds a lot of the current metagame (Barring shit like Dory >_>) and can ohk0 most of it with its amazing coverage.Really try it out guyz.

[Axa]

Originally Posted by Fat Server_Crash

If you run rest, you definitely need natural cure. It also is not trying to do damage, just burn hax. It seems a little gimmicky on paper, because Starmie is frail even with dual screens, but correct prediction or a switch could give Starmie ample opportunity to set them up. I do think that dual screening is still handled better by bulkier pokemon like uxie or bronzong.

Starmie's main advantage is its speed, as it can set them up without being Taunted or using a Scarf.

The main problem I'd have with it is that it speed ties with Azelf and doesn't learn SR or Taunt or U-Turn. It's also weak to Leaf Storm from Roserade. It's slightly bulkier and has reliable recovery, though, and Azelf's Explosion was weakened by half. I suppose Rapid Spin can go in somewhere if you want, but I'm not sure what it'd be able to replace.

[Server_Crash]

Speed doesn't matter this generation now that mischievous heart exists w/ taunt. It won't work as a lead, but it could work as a late game set-up so that it can at least set one screen up before it gets taunted by erufuun/voltolos/tornalos/sableye etc. Also, how could a pokemon set up dual screens (read: dual) with a choice scarf?

[PokéMontage]

I love Starmie to death and I'm so glad that its Life Orb set is still effective at the moment. It's one of my favorite sets of all time.
My one complaint is that it should have OBVIOUSLY gotten Regeneration! Seriously, what's up with that?

[masterful]

Max SpA Starmie will do 18-23% with Psychic to Max Def/HP Bold Chansey with Evo Stone, and Psycho Shock will do around 23-27%, neither being a consistent 4HKO even, so I suggest Psycho shock be listed lower than recover and Rapid Spin. Also, HP Fire is just not very useful as it provides little coverage besides Nattorei

[Server_Crash]

Thanks for the calcs, how do they do against blissey? HP Fire lets it get super effective hits against steels like bronzong who ruin your fun, and Nattorei has enough usage that it may well warrant a spot on most sets.

[Green Thunder]

Originally Posted by Fat PokéMontage

I love Starmie to death and I'm so glad that its Life Orb set is still effective at the moment. It's one of my favorite sets of all time.
My one complaint is that it should have OBVIOUSLY gotten Regeneration! Seriously, what's up with that?

I can't believe gamefreak trolled starmie....STARMIE! They never did that!

On a serious note, I've never found recover useful on starmie(ingame yes but...) hidden power fire and psychic(roopshin is scarier then chansey/blissy) are the best options for the last slot IMO.if your REALLY scared of rotom-w u could use grass knot but...that not very good at all.

Starmies staying OU and might as well just be given a lifetime pass.

[FarmerWithShotgun]

grass knot is useless for rotom-w. surf does more. grass knot only has 20 power, 40 when SE...

[PkMARIO]

Originally Posted by Fat PokéMontage

I love Starmie to death and I'm so glad that its Life Orb set is still effective at the moment. It's one of my favorite sets of all time.
My one complaint is that it should have OBVIOUSLY gotten Regeneration! Seriously, what's up with that?

I totally agree, it's like they switched Starmie and Slowking/bro's abilities. Starmie is the one with healing factor, Slowking the slow intelligent one...

[Rayquaza_]

Needs a Gravity set. Starmie has the right moves to abuse it (Hydro Pump, Blizzard, Thunder) and with so many Balloon users in the current metagame it's very useful to shut them down.

[Lbuh]

I think Expert Belt deserves a mention on the Choice set. Starmie has a great movepool to hit a lot of Pokes for SE damage and you can use it to fake a choice item. When you faint something with for example Thunderbolt, your opponent might think he can set up some ground type for free. That's when you use an Expert Belt boosted Surf / Ice Beam.

[SMZ]

I don't see Analyze being a viable trait to use over Natural Cure. Offensive sets need to hit fast, and bulky sets pretty much want NC.

Also, Psycho Shock does meh to Chansey/Blissey, even with Life Orb boosts

[PokéMontage]

I totally agree, it's like they switched Starmie and Slowking/bro's abilities. Starmie is the one with healing factor, Slowking the slow intelligent one..

Exactly. Their abilities fit each other to a T. I'm honestly willing to bet that it was a mistake on the programmer's part and they just didn't feel like fixing it. It's too much of a coincidence, especially because they're both Water/Psychic types with the exact same SpAtk. Fix this obvious mistake GF!

The saddest part is that Slowbro/King don't mind this switch too much since they could make use of both abilities regardless of which one they got, but Starmie can't use Analyze. For most intents and purposes, it's useless.