Research Week 1 - Chingling, Golett, and Deerling

[Ray Jay]

Research Week attempts to investigate Pokemon who have potential, be it in stats, movepool, or supporting their team, to serve as an innovative choice in today's metagame. These are Pokemon that, for the most part, remain relatively untested. Elevator Music and I have selected 3 Pokemon we feel, with help from everyone else, could see use as they fill a particular niche. Perhaps the title is a bit of a misnomer; in fact, this installment (and perhaps future ones) of Research Week will continue as long as the discussion does, and that's where you all come in.

Please don't hesitate to post if you have insight into any of the Pokemon here. On the flip side of that coin, post intelligently.



A few things to keep in mind:

• Be open minded.
• Test, test, test!
• Think of how these Pokemon work well, what movesets to use, what teams to use them on, important teammates, and good EV spreads.
• If you have a Pokemon to suggest for Research Week, don't post here; PM Elevator Music and myself.

The research-ees:

Chingling

---

Despite its seemingly mediocre stats on paper, Chingling is not a defensive slouch. Chingling appears to have the ability to shut down nearly all Drilbur today within a combination of Levitate and Disable (considering most Drilbur run only Earthquake and Rock Slide). It also has access to Wish, something most teams do not use but could benefit from. Chingling has a plethora of other support moves, such as Hypnosis, Taunt, and Recover. With investment, it also doesn't mind taking even U-turns from Mienfoo. Can this Pokemon serve its team well?

Golett

---

Sponging nearly everything the ubiquitous Mienfoo can throw at it, Golett appears to have potential in this metagame both offensively and defensively. Can Golett serve as a defensive pivot capable of taking hits from Mienfoo while simultaneously blasting powerful moves back at the opponent? Please note when testing Golett that Shadow Punch (along with all of its level-up moves) is illegal with Iron Fist.

Deerling

---

Deerling has notable stats across the board as well as a fine support movepool. Unfortunately, these may not always be enough to back up its simply awful typing. Nonetheless, Deerling appears to have the ability to greatly hinder its counters due to the number of sets it could run. For example, Deerling will often lure in Mienfoo, who will not be happy to be on the receiving end of a Thunder Wave. Its vast array of moves includes the rare Aromatherapy and reliable recovery in Synthesis. And of course, its offensive stats provide just enough to make STAB Return blow through more frail Pokemon.

[Princess of Johto]

Ooo! I'll definitely be testing out Chingling with Wish and Disable.

As for Golett, I have used a Choice Scarf set before but I think Golett could do better without one. Especially since it needs Jolly to get 14 speed. But maybe a Choice Band set could work?

Golett @Choice Band
244 Atk / 236 Spe (Unsure about these. Maybe settle for 17 Atk and dump some into Def or SpD? Or just not invest in speed?)
Adamant
Iron Fist
~ Earthquake
~ Rock Slide
~ Brick Break / Hammer Arm (Idk about the -spe but it's already so slow)
~ Filler (Return?)

The idea is to switch in on something that can't hurt you, like Mienfoo. Then hit the switch in really hard with one of the attacks. But maybe an Eviolite set would be better. It also gets Rock Polish. Switch in on Mienfoo or something and set up for an easy +2.

But I'm going to test Chingling first when I get home from school :)

[Vader*]

Life Orb is pretty much always better than CB or Specs in LC because 30% and 50% have such a small difference when the values are ranging from 15-18. Rock Polish seems promising, as Ghost-typing gives it something over Drillbur. It's too bad Golett doesn't Shadow Sneak or Shadow Claw though, since without Ghost STAB other Ghosts know they can just walk all over him /=

I will probably give him a try some time this week and post here if I find a cool set!!

[Princess of Johto]

Originally Posted by Fat Vader

Life Orb is pretty much always better than CB or Specs in LC because 30% and 50% have such a small difference when the values are ranging from 15-18.

Oh, never thought about that. Anyways, testing Chingling and I'm using this set:

Chingling (F) @Eviolite
Bold
76 HP / 196 Def / 196 SpD
~ Wish
~ Protect
~ Disable
~ Psychic

I'm not so sure about Disable yet but I'm trying it out for now. If I don't like it, I'll try Heal Bell. So far I haven't really had a chance to use it in battle but once I do I'll post!

[Elevator Music]

It may be a better idea to take some investment out of Special Defense and put it into HP. It allows Chingling to take hits from Pokemon like Drilbur much better, and also restores more HP from Wish. Chingling shouldn't really be staying in on most specially oriented Pokemon anyways I don't think...

[Methmite]

I'll do some research on golett when i get some time. Its one of those mons I've always wanted to use but never found an excuse to.

[Princess of Johto]

Originally Posted by Fat Elevator Music

It may be a better idea to take some investment out of Special Defense and put it into HP. It allows Chingling to take hits from Pokemon like Drilbur much better, and also restores more HP from Wish. Chingling shouldn't really be staying in on most specially oriented Pokemon anyways I don't think...

I'll try that out, thanks EM.

So far Chingling isn't that great. If it was just a bit bulkier...

[Ray Jay]

So chieliee beat me because he was packing Chingling; even Knock Off Mienfoo and Abra couldn't combine to crack through it.

Edit: Sorry, thought Focus Punch was still a tm. Still, Stunky looks like a solid choice as a teammate as Golett will get walked on by Gastly and Floon.

[Elevator Music]

Actually, Golett can't use Focus Punch in Little Cup, as it's only a level-up move... :(

[Chieliee]

I've been testing Chinchougling (by using it over bronzor on one of my teams) I've had a lot of battles in which I didn't even use him, but in this one: http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-LCh...ivate960753175 , he did really well

As you can see, I'm using Psychic/Wish/Protect/Disable, but I'm thinking of replacing Disable with HP Fighting to make it less pursuit/scraggy bait (basicly to hit dark type switchins)

Also, shadow claw drilbur sux

EDIT: using 236 HP/196 Def/36 Sp.Def Bold

[Princess of Johto]

Originally Posted by Fat Chieliee

I've been testing Chinchougling (by using it over bronzor on one of my teams) I've had a lot of battles in which I didn't even use him, but in this one: http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-LCh...ivate960753175 , he did really well

As you can see, I'm using Psychic/Wish/Protect/Disable, but I'm thinking of replacing Disable with HP Fighting to make it less pursuit/scraggy bait (basicly to hit dark type switchins)

Also, shadow claw drilbur sux

EDIT: using 236 HP/196 Def/36 Sp.Def Bold

HP Fighting sounds like a good idea, Disable doesn't really do much.

I might try a Rock Polish Golett soon, and see how that goes. I would test Deerling but it doesn't look like a fun Pokemon to use. I might, though :]

[little gk]

I've been using Rock Polish Golett with some success. I mean, once Bronzor and Stunky are out (and prediction games with stunky can be fun), he doesn't have too much of an issue hurting things. The big issue is finding a good opportunity to use Rock Polish. Frillish is also scary, but Earthquake does like 52% on him, so things could work out if i'm set up and it tries to switch in!

As far as the other Pokemon go, I'm thinking about a Calm Mind set on Chingling, but it might not be too fun if it needs a bunch of help to set up. I'm not gonna worry too much about that though, since monmen, i don't remember the english name, could always just be plugged in or something.

[Vwall]

Originally Posted by Fat Chieliee

I've been testing Chinchougling (by using it over bronzor on one of my teams) I've had a lot of battles in which I didn't even use him, but in this one: http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-LCh...ivate960753175 , he did really well

As you can see, I'm using Psychic/Wish/Protect/Disable, but I'm thinking of replacing Disable with HP Fighting to make it less pursuit/scraggy bait (basicly to hit dark type switchins)

Also, shadow claw drilbur sux

EDIT: using 236 HP/196 Def/36 Sp.Def Bold

Btw, it's totally ok to show of my battles:) you did use Disable to stop with my Taillow(or was it Diglett?) in another battle. HP Fighting is a good idea, but HP Ground is SE against Scraggy, Houndour and is neutral to Larvesta, who might try to bust you with U-turn or Bug Bite. Speaking of U-turn, HP Ground is also SE against Mienfoo. You can also hit Frillish and other random ghosts without Levitate(uncommon though) with HP ground.

PS. I'm Vwall on PO.

EDIT: Didn't see Psychic for ghosts, fightingmons and neutral Larvesta coverage.

EDIT2: i've always thought that ground is SE against fighting. /facepalm

[Furai]

HP Ground hits Scraggy and Mienfoo for neutral damage, while HP Fighting hits both Scraggy and Houndour for SE damage.

[prem]

though i havent personally tested chingling (i just say this thread now) i have played quite a few battles against it, and have to say chingling is like the BIGGEST scraggy bait around, so if you want to use it please have like 3 scraggy checks and counters on your team (you should already have 2 on your team lol)

[Ray Jay]

Alternatively, Chingling could use Reflect in that last slot on the Scraggy switch-in or on the turn Drilbur uses Rock Slide. Either basically guarantees Mienfoo that it can switch-in to the threat and KO.

Golett and Scraggy function as a great duo, as Golett can switch-in on anything Mienfoo has to offer, then go right back to Scraggy on the inevitable U-turn from Mienfoo. Also, 2 set-up Pokemon is typically enough to keep defensive teams on their heels. Golett also takes on nearly all of Scraggy's answers, including Mienfoo, Scarfed Birds, and Croagunk if it uses Eviolite to tank the Sucker Punch. I think Cottonee and Timburr are perhaps the only Scraggy answer that really beats both, both of which are increasingly rare.

[Chieliee]

Reflect is something I'm going to try out, thanks for the suggestion.

[Ray Jay]

What's this, no love for Deerling? C'mon people!

I've been using this set so far:

Deerling (Deerling-Summer) (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 36 HP / 116 Atk / 116 SDef / 236 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Faint Attack
- Thunder Wave
- Synthesis
- Double-Edge

And it's strong and fast. Lures in Mienfoo like none other, which eats a Thunder Wave. Synthesis is a bummer in that it doesn't heal fully in sand, but it suffices. Serves as a great Chinchou / Staryu switch in. Faint Attack I used so I'm not Gastly set-up fodder (not going to risk losing a speed tie, having it sub, then having Twave be useless). It can't handle Bronzor or Ferroseed at all right now, so I'm thinking that Balloon Mag balogna might be a useful teammate. Also, Ponyta can provide Sun, absorbs Fire-type moves directed at this guy, and also eats Ferroseed for breakfast. This set's good but not great; I'm sure you excellent people can help improve it!

[Methmite]

One thing that severely disapointed me about Golett is its inability to hurt without a life orb. Sure it has an attack stat on par with meinfoo; but its stab is only 100, compared to mienfoos 130. I was really hoping that a more bulky varient of golett would be possible abusing an eviolite, but without access to recovery beyond rest (it doesnt get sleep talk), and a general lack of unboosted oomph really hampers the set. While it does make *the best* non-knockoff (all of them at this point) Mienfoo switch in I've ever seen, theirs only so many times you can switch in and have their mienfoo switch out to heal off the tickling you gave them while you're stuck with any damage sustained from th switch. In otherwords; it cannot really do anything to mienfoo, other than switch in, Though I do believe it will win 9/10 fights as last v last.

Theorymoning

---

Despite what i just complained about; I think the biggest issue with golett has to be it's genderless-ness. It has a pretty great ablity in Iron Fist, and an amazing typing which lets it basically say "fuck you" to alot of the fighting types who opt for stone edge over a dark move (to deal with larvesta or whatever) most notably meinfoo. the combination of these two factors; would make for an AMAZING sub-punch set; using something along the lines of:

Golett @ Iron fist
<unsure of EV's don't have resourse on hand, will edit in soon. expect max attack and some HP IV abuse>
-Substitute
-Focus Punch
-Shadow Punch
-Earth quake

With the basic idea of the set being to switch into meinfoo or other "safe" fighting type and sub up on their switch out, since you wall them to hell and back. Focus punch boosted by ironfist is gross amounts of damage, Backed by a Stab, Iron fist boosted Shadowpunch, and STAB earthquake (or rockslide for a pseudo edgequake with focus punch). After that sub is up; you basically kill whatever they switch in with awesome coverage and poewrful stabs.

Of course this set is impossible due to it's Genderless nature and the pomeg berry glitch being non-existant; which goes back to my original point: the biggest problem with Golett is that it is genderless - limiting its *amazing* move pool to a few weak coverage moves and earthquake.

[spuds4ever]

@methmite, yes, that's exactly the set I use for golett on PO. It isn't actually banned on smogon server yet and while some people say it's unfair or cheating, I think it's perfectly fair as all the players have access to it (and it's not as if it makes it over-powered at all). It's also kinda nice to see how great a pokemon like golett "could have been". As for your set, you don't need rock slide as focus punch and shadow punch already have perfect coverage.

[Ray Jay]

Originally Posted by Fat spuds4ever

@methmite, yes, that's exactly the set I use for golett on PO. It isn't actually banned on smogon server yet and while some people say it's unfair or cheating, I think it's perfectly fair as all the players have access to it (and it's not as if it makes it over-powered at all). It's also kinda nice to see how great a pokemon like golett "could have been". As for your set, you don't need rock slide as focus punch and shadow punch already have perfect coverage.

This thread will not discuss, let alone advocate, the use of illegal movesets unless such is marked as theorymonning as Methmite as done. It isn't banned due to complications with lc move legality. Please do not advocate the use of an illegal set.

Interestingly enough, if Pomeg glitch worked in 5th gen, you could potentially make such a set legal, and if you want to help prove that I suggest starting here.

Back on topic, methmite is pretty much spot on with his first paragraph. Golett lacks the raw power to be much of a threat, and no longevity aside from Rest is a tough pill to swallow. Perhaps a bulkier set without Life Orb shouldn't use Rock Polish at all, but Rest (unfortunately it does not have Sleep Talk, so a cleric as Chinchou would have to be used).

[Methmite]

I think Golett can be chalked up to "trolled by game freak." It has all the right prices and parts, it just lacks the nuts to put them together; with all the double meanings that sentence contained. I think I will try some stuff with deerling next; as their isnt much else to discuss with golett, and deerling hasnt gotten much love. Not going to lie; am not looking forward to it. Deerling has never been a "Oh shit I wish I could use this" mon for me.

Maybe a defensive set to act as a sand counter?

Update:

REALLY disappointed Deerling doesn't get Horn-Leach. I'm sure I'm late to the party on that one; but it got rid of a lot of my ideas to play with it.

[spuds4ever]

Originally Posted by Fat Ray Jay

This thread will not discuss, let alone advocate, the use of illegal movesets unless such is marked as theorymonning as Methmite as done. It isn't banned due to complications with lc move legality. Please do not advocate the use of an illegal set.

Interestingly enough, if Pomeg glitch worked in 5th gen, you could potentially make such a set legal, and if you want to help prove that I suggest starting here.

Back on topic, methmite is pretty much spot on with his first paragraph. Golett lacks the raw power to be much of a threat, and no longevity aside from Rest is a tough pill to swallow. Perhaps a bulkier set without Life Orb shouldn't use Rock Polish at all, but Rest (unfortunately it does not have Sleep Talk, so a cleric as Chinchou would have to be used).

I apologize. I see now my behavior was silly and I'll try not to do it again.

Anyway, Golett was a real shame. Great design, nice typing, good movepool, just the stupid £*&/$ gender. Could have been a great pokemon. By the way, I was wondering how the genderless thing works, I know genderless pokemon can't have level-up moves, but the thread seems to suggest that golett can have shadow punch with another ability (or maybe that's just poor wording). Also, I had a debate with another guy when he had a porygon with tri-attack (though it had download over adaptability). Is this legal? Because if it is, I've misunderstood something. Sorry to drift off-topic.

[Ray Jay]

Originally Posted by Fat spuds4ever

I apologize. I see now my behavior was silly and I'll try not to do it again.

Anyway, Golett was a real shame. Great design, nice typing, good movepool, just the stupid £*&/$ gender. Could have been a great pokemon. By the way, I was wondering how the genderless thing works, I know genderless pokemon can't have level-up moves, but the thread seems to suggest that golett can have shadow punch with another ability (or maybe that's just poor wording). Also, I had a debate with another guy when he had a porygon with tri-attack (though it had download over adaptability). Is this legal? Because if it is, I've misunderstood something. Sorry to drift off-topic.

Since Pomeg glitch was legal in Gen III, Porygon and Staryu, be they genderless, can use level up moves (Tri Attack and Hydro Pump specifically). However, Porygon and Staryu can't use their Dream World abilities in conjunction with level up moves because of this. And the wording of this thread was poor, Golett can't use Shadow Punch in lc at all.

Also Methmite, I'm curious how Deerling did for you. I found it a lot bulkier than anticipated, but also it sometimes loses to Drilbur 1 on 1 which is a downside.

[spuds4ever]

Originally Posted by Fat Ray Jay

Since Pomeg glitch was legal in Gen III, Porygon and Staryu, be they genderless, can use level up moves (Tri Attack and Hydro Pump specifically). However, Porygon and Staryu can't use their Dream World abilities in conjunction with level up moves because of this. And the wording of this thread was poor, Golett can't use Shadow Punch in lc at all.

Also Methmite, I'm curious how Deerling did for you. I found it a lot bulkier than anticipated, but also it sometimes loses to Drilbur 1 on 1 which is a downside.

Soooo, why can't golett use shadow punch or is it only because porygon and staryu are from 3rd gen? I can't see how deerling could be any use, hate to be a killjoy. But it seems like its just outclassed by lickitung pretty much completely.