Checking / Countering the New LC Threats

Ray Jay · Jan 20th, 2012, 3:07:12 PM

Approved by V / Endorsed by EM

Hi everyone, unless you've been living under a Rock-type for the past week or so, you're aware there are some new (old) kids in the neighborhood of LC.

This thread attempts to post your methods of handling these Pokemon. Please do not discuss the viability / brokenness of the Pokemon in this thread (use the sticky for that). Also keep in mind we are zeroing in on just the 3 above Pokemon; there is another thread dedicated to the game "Beat that (Baby) Pokemon".

Some things to keep in mind:

When posting a check / counter, mention not only what Pokemon it handles, but what set it handles (for example, Misdreavus can run Eviolite or a Choice Scarf set)
Feel free to comment on the sets of others.
Do not merely post a set, mention what teammates work well, how the set is to be used, whether it is a complete counter or just a check, etc.
Make sure you actually test the set before posting it!

An example:

Snover @ Choice Scarf
Naive | Snow Warning
100 Atk / 180 SpA / 200 Spe
-Blizzard
-Giga Drain
-Ice Shard
-Hidden Power (Rock)

This set is important to any team lacking a solid Pokemon to revenge. Notably, it outspeeds Gligar and will not be OHKOed by Quick Attack unless Gligar nabs a Swords Dance and Snover takes some previous damage; but even still, it can use Ice Shard if it absolutely has to (or Gligar decides to use Agility). It is also notable in revenging offensive Murkrow, who will be picked off with impunity as long as it doesn't have a Substitute up. Misdreavus makes a useful teammate, as it handles Choice Scarf Mienfoo and other Fighting-types. This combo is also notable in that Scraggy, the one Fighting-type Misdreavus has trouble with, can't switch into Blizzard and try to set up.

comatthew6 · Jan 20th, 2012, 3:29:33 PM

Hi! Placeholder for my thoughts.

To counter Misdreavus:

Stunky (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Aftermath
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 188 SDef / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Crunch / Fire Blast
- Explosion / Fire Blast

Yup! It's your standard Elevator Music Stunky. Crunch is important on this set because it prevents Misdreavus from effectively using Nasty Plot, as a boosted HP Fighting won't be enough to KO and Stunky can easily KO back with Crunch then Sucker Punch (maybe even without Sucker Punch). It traps ones that are thinking about switching out with Pursuit, and can go out with a bang on the next Pokemon by using Explosion. This set obviously loses to the other two Pokemon mentioned here, but then again, it shouldn't be used against those two. Snover is a great check to them, and it also beats sandstorm when used in conjunction with Staryu.

Princess of Johto · Jan 20th, 2012, 3:32:49 PM

Misdreavus check/counter:

Stunky (F) @Eviolite
Calm • Aftermath
12 HP / 12 Atk / 140 Def / 108 SpA / 188 SpD / 12 Spe (Gosh I love Stunky's stat distribution!)
~ Dark Pulse
~ Fire Blast
~ Toxic / Hidden Power [Ice] / Sludge Bomb???
~ Sucker Punch / Pursuit / Explosion???

Well, I honestly can say that I haven't tested this set, but I'm planning to soon. As you all know, most Misdreavus carry Will-o-Wisp, which either cripples Physical Stunky or forces it to run a Lum Berry. I thought, why not use a Specially based Stunky?! Switch in on an Eviolite Misdreavus (or even scarf, it can take a few SBall's). They'll probably use WoW, but, they will be surprised to be smacked by a STAB Dark Pulse that is not coming off of a halved stat. Fire Blast hits steels, and the last two slots are a bit tricky (mostly filler). I decided HP Ice could be useful to hit any predicted Gligar switch-ins, but it's really not that useful since Gligar outspeeds :( Sludge Bomb... hits Murkrow harder? xD Actually, I guess Toxic can go in that 3rd slot since it limits Gligar/Murkrow's survivability and other defensive mons. So I'll slash that first. The last move is mostly filler. Sucker Punch coming from a stat of 11 won't hit hard, but it could be useful to possibly beat a weakened sweeper like Drilbur. Pursuit traps ghosts / Abra and Explosion hits hard (although not as hard as you would think... so I think that should be removed).

I'm a bit unsure about the EV spread. Max SpD is almost mandatory, but I'm sure a set that sacrifices some Defense for more power could be used. 12 HP / 12 Atk / 60 Def / 188 SpA / 188 SpD / 12 Spe or something.

Again, haven't tested it and I'm really unsure about the moveset, but it seems like it would work! :3

comatthew6 · Jan 20th, 2012, 4:00:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Princess of Johto

Misdreavus check/counter:

Stunky (F) @Eviolite
Calm • Aftermath
12 HP / 12 Atk / 140 Def / 108 SpA / 188 SpD / 12 Spe (Gosh I love Stunky's stat distribution!)
~ Dark Pulse
~ Fire Blast
~ Toxic / Hidden Power [Ice] / Sludge Bomb???
~ Sucker Punch / Pursuit / Explosion???

This doesn't seem like a bad idea! The thing about Stunky being physical is that it hits Missy's lower defense as compared to its special defense but this seems really interesting. Pursuit should definitely be given the nod in the last (or maybe even third!) slot so it still has the ability to trap things but that's really more up to the user. Also, 140 Def seems a little high, might want to tone it down to 80 and invest more in Special Attack

Chieliee · Jan 20th, 2012, 4:34:50 PM

Tirtouga (M) @ Splash Plate
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 216 Atk / 12 Def / 76 SDef / 180 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Shell Smash
- Aqua Jet
- Aqua Tail
- Stone Edge

(Set made by em)

Unlike most other set-uppers, Tirtouga is not stopped by Haze Murkrow. If your opponent lacks Murkrow, Gligar and Misdreavus don't stand a chance. If your opponent does have a Murkrow, you just gotta try to set up twice. Also, it beats the fuck out of Natu.

Princess of Johto · Jan 20th, 2012, 10:37:52 PM

Thanks, Comatt. I was unsure about the EVs, which is why I posted an alternate spread below (The alternate spread gave the max SpA, 13, while still retaining a stat of 12 in Def, which is pretty respectable, Imo). I want to try out the set soon but I've got other stuff to do :S

Chieliee, I'm just confused about the item. Why not just use LO? Or maybe even Muscle Band if you don't want to take recoil. But why Splash Plate? :o

Mienfoo (F) @Choice Scarf
Naive / Naughty (Not sure if a scarf set really needs +Spe) • Regenerator
236 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe (You can invest in some SpA, but you it's a 2HKO either way unless you invest all the way to 14 SpA, in which case you lose lots of physical power)
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Def
~ Hi Jump Kick
~ Hidden Power [Ice]
~ U-turn
~ Stone Edge / Drain Punch

Gligar check (def. not a counter). What I'm thinking with this set is simple. Switch in on something that Mienfoo will threatens out, like Porygon or something. If your opponent has Gligar, they will most likely switch that in (unless they have a ghost). Nail them with HP Ice for a nice 2HKO and with scarf you outspeed. It's best to keep it so that your opponent doesn't know you're scarfed, because if they know they will most likely switch Gligar out after the first HP Ice. But if they're clueless, they will stay in thinking they will outspeed. However, after Gligar dies, the opponent basically has a free set up turn so make sure to pack a counter for things that set up on Mienfoo. HJK and U-turn are self-explanatory. Stone Edge in the last slot to hit Larvesta and ghosts (I think Missy takes quite a hit from Stone Edge), but Drain Punch can be used for a more reliable STAB.

Also, I haven't tested this set either :x

Edit: Ohhh! I forgot about Sturdy. Thanks, RayJay. It's a shame that Splash Plate only boosts water attacks by 1.2, but Muscle Band really sucks. I thought it gave the same boost LO gave but only for physical moves. A 1.1 boost isn't worth it :s

Ray Jay · Jan 20th, 2012, 10:38:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Princess of Johto

Thanks, Comatt. I was unsure about the EVs, which is why I posted an alternate spread below (The alternate spread gave the max SpA, 13, while still retaining a stat of 12 in Def, which is pretty respectable, Imo). I want to try out the set soon but I've got other stuff to do :S

Chieliee, I'm just confused about the item. Why not just use LO? Or maybe even Muscle Band if you don't want to take recoil. But why Splash Plate? :o

Also, I'll edit in another set soon.

Sturdy allows it to survive any hit at 1 HP then allowing it to pull of a Shell Smash. Any recoil damage from Life Orb would kill it off, but Aqua Jet is too weak if it is not boosted in some way. Splash Plate's multiplier is 1.2 for Aqua Jet, Muscle Band's is 1.1.

Al_Alchemist · Jan 21st, 2012, 5:43:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Ray Jay

Sturdy allows it to survive any hit at 1 HP then allowing it to pull of a Shell Smash. Any recoil damage from Life Orb would kill it off, but Aqua Jet is too weak if it is not boosted in some way. Splash Plate's multiplier is 1.2 for Aqua Jet, Muscle Band's is 1.1.

Actually the Splash Plate is mainly for OHKOing 21 HP / 15 def + eviolite pokes with +2 Aqua Tail on average, i.e. Scraggy and Impish Mienfoo, whereas you usually don't without it.

36 Atk vs 22 Def & 21 HP (108 Base Power): 19 - 24 (90.48% - 114.29%)

And your evs are inefficient, they should be: 84 HP / 212 Atk / 12 Def / 180 Spe, the set is onsite btw:http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/tirtouga

Also I actually made the set chieliee 9.9...

**Furai** · Jan 21st, 2012, 7:13:38 AM

Basically, all 3 are Toxic weak. It wears them down so quickly, and especially Misdreavus, who doesn't usually carry a recovery move. In the case of Murkrow, if it carries Taunt, repeated hits will shut it down, especially when Roost makes it only a Dark-type. (I'll post a counter for Gligar after I come back, stay tuned~)

D4RR3N · Jan 21st, 2012, 8:13:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Furai

Basically, all 3 are Toxic weak. It wears them down so quickly, and especially Misdreavus, who doesn't usually carry a recovery move. In the case of Murkrow, if it carries Taunt, repeated hits will shut it down, especially when Roost makes it only a Dark-type. (I'll post a counter for Gligar after I come back, stay tuned~)

that's why having toxic on something unexpected like Chinchou would be really great for crippling murkrows when they roost and gligar switch ins when they expect a Volt switch.

comatthew6 · Jan 21st, 2012, 9:10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Furai

Basically, all 3 are Toxic weak. It wears them down so quickly, and especially Misdreavus, who doesn't usually carry a recovery move. In the case of Murkrow, if it carries Taunt, repeated hits will shut it down, especially when Roost makes it only a Dark-type. (I'll post a counter for Gligar after I come back, stay tuned~)

Immunity Gligar let's get it?

San_Pellegrino · Jan 21st, 2012, 9:19:03 AM

well I use

Sub + Ice Punch + Crunch + Drain Punch Scraggy

D4RR3N · Jan 21st, 2012, 9:30:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat San_Pellegrino

well I use

Sub + Ice Punch + Crunch + Drain Punch Scraggy

you may want to try HJK over Drain Punch, for the additional power i guess.

prem · Jan 21st, 2012, 11:42:15 AM

Magnemite @ Eviolite Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 156 HP / 40 Def / 156 SAtk / 156 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Magnet Rise
- Thunderbolt

my murkrow counter because that thing is literally gayer than missy and gligar combined cause scarf missy can beat both of those 2. This set has great bulk, resists both of murkrows stabs can beat the cm sets if you play it right. mixkrow might be an issue with heat wave, but i for one have never seen it and even then mite takes that for ~84% when krow is using life orb so mite still wins

magnet rise is a beast move so im not set up fodder to gligar, fucked by diglett, and always beat bronzor. thunderbolt for damaging attack, volt switch for scouting, and flash cannon for gligar and reliable stab

**Furai** · Jan 21st, 2012, 12:09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat comatthew6

Immunity Gligar let's get it?

lol comatt you're cute :3

Bronzor @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 228 HP / 4 Atk / 148 Def / 4 SAtk / 68 SDef / 16 Spd
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake

This little cutie is the perfect answer to that bully Gligar. It can tank everything it throws at it, set up Stealth Rock infront of it, Toxic it, or 2HKO with a 4x Hidden Power Ice. Bronzor is so bulky, Gligar ain't gonna touch it! Levitate also ensures Bronzor will evade Gligar's Earthquake, while it also resists Acrobatics.

Charmander · Jan 21st, 2012, 1:07:45 PM

Hidden Power Ice only does 32% to bulky variants. Gligar with Substitute / Taunt and Roost can stall out Bronzor with some prediction, which makes it a pretty unreliable check to all Gligar. You should invest more in special attack and less in attack. Earthquake doesn't really even hit anything except Magnemite, who usually has Magnet Rise anyway. Pawniard takes Earthquake very well, and Hidden Power Ice still hits Gligar harder after a Roost (obviously). Maybe try Psychic there for Mienfoo and friends? Mienfoo is scarfed a lot more now, so that'd be a better Gligar check and a better all-around utility.

Vix · Jan 21st, 2012, 5:10:17 PM

I think I have found my gligar counter! O_o

(Piplup) (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Torrent
EVs: 172 HP / 172 Def / 32 SAtk / 68 SDef / 36 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Scald/Hydro pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Takes anything gligar can dish out and OHKO's it in return and it sets up rocks.
It truly proved itself in this battle I had with blarajan; I also tried out the special stunky set here as well.

...

Princess of Johto · Jan 21st, 2012, 5:20:29 PM

Hmm, my special Stunky set really lacks power, sadly. But that Piplup is pretty impressive (and cute! I love Piplup! :D). Nice set! I might try that out sometime.

**blarajan** · Jan 21st, 2012, 7:17:35 PM

This is the beast that I have used on my team and absolutely loved. It is an absolute monster. You fucking ready for this, kids? HERE IT COMES.

This monster just smashes the tier.

Thug Tongue (Shellder) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 SDef / 196 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Razor Shell
- Ice Shard

Sub Murkrow? No problem! Sub Gligar? ROFL. Even manages to OHKO Oran Dwebble assuming one crit rock blast or max damage roll. It's just a beast, use it.

Also, fuck you Vix lol. Posting one of my worst played matches ever. =(.

Methmite · Jan 21st, 2012, 7:32:14 PM

Was actually just going to post that; blara. Thing gets in the way a lot; eventually I developed ways of getting around it, but i lost a couple of games because of it.

Vix · Jan 22nd, 2012, 7:19:13 PM

Yeah that shellder set is brutal. The only way I have found around it is munchlax and scarfers and they do not work every time too.

also blarajan, I'm sorry if the log offended you but it was the only log I had that proved the piplup set was viable plus I know that match was a fluke,the surprise piplup set was really the only reason I won.

prem · Jan 22nd, 2012, 8:10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Vix

also blarajan, I'm sorry if the log offended you but it was the only log I had that proved the piplup set was viable plus I know that match was a fluke,the surprise piplup set was really the only reason I won.

lol. acting like insulting blara isnt common place.

Joltik

Joltik (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Unnerve
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Def / 60 SAtk / 116 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Bug Buzz
- Thunderbolt

if you can find a better moveset for this that would be cool i didnt really want to think when i made it lol.

anyway with this spread and its typing its neutral to everything gligar and murkrow (besides the gayfuck heatwave ones) can use will always be able to take a hit and hit back. wish support is actually really appreciated cause it cant recover and its constantly taking hits. acrobatics from gligar with the gem only does ~74% which is great considering how strong that thing is. has something like 23/21/19 defenses which is cool. only has like 14 spa though so it cant always OHKO gligar (which sucks but if you are taking regular acrobats it can take 2 anyway). anyway its cool so use it

spuds4ever · Jan 23rd, 2012, 3:03:45 AM

I find the best way to counter gligar is to pack some ice attacks on a fair few of your team members, preferably some unexpected ones, like ice punch on munchlax which works really well, hidden power ice on mienfoo lets it flourish really well in the tier still, and ice beam is very handy on chinchou as it can easily OHKO volt-switch's most common switch-in. Over-all, ice is a handy type to pack into your team as there aren't actually that many resistances, the most notable ones are just the shell-smashers and bronzor and is IMO the best way to counter gligar.

Still trying to find a solid check to misdreavus out-side of stunky though. If only munchlax got crunch....

Danilo · Jan 23rd, 2012, 10:16:49 PM

Koffing (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 76 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Pain Split
- Clear Smog
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

I haven't tested this but Koffing seems really good. Deals with all non-acrobatics Gligar, Scraggy, and has Thunderbolt for Murkrow. Pain Split for recovery, Clear Smog for set up, Thunderbolt for Murkrow, and Will-O-Wisp for physically sweepers. What could go wrong?!

Ray Jay · Jan 23rd, 2012, 11:07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat prem

lol. acting like insulting blara isnt common place.

Joltik

Joltik (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Compoundeyes
EVs: 116 HP / 196 Def / 60 SAtk / 116 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Bug Buzz
- Thunderbolt

Pretty interesting set. Obviously notable in having an SE hit on both roosting and flying Murkrow, so it can beat even more defensive versions. One thing is that Stealth Rock absolutely wrecks this monster (as it will not like taking a Flight Gem Acrobatics after SR). Also thought it was worth mentioning that Bug Buzz is kinda nice if Misdreavus wants to get classy switching in for the SpD drop chance. Finally, Unnerve is the preferable ability due to it allowing you to beat the rare Yache Gligar and Oran Berry users in general.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sir

Koffing (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 76 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Pain Split
- Clear Smog
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

I haven't tested this but Koffing seems really good. Deals with all non-acrobatics Gligar, Scraggy, and has Thunderbolt for Murkrow. Pain Split for recovery, Clear Smog for set up, Thunderbolt for Murkrow, and Will-O-Wisp for physically sweepers. What could go wrong?!

In the future, please test your sets before posting them. In any case, Koffing is a fun mon to use but has a tough spot fitting on most teams over Bronzor (it is notable for having a better grasp on defensive Murkrow, but losing to AcroBat is really annoying, and also no SR). Either way, Torment Krow walks all over this set, as Substitute + Torment just walks all over defensive teams in general, but I digress. Other than that, Tbolt is also nice for its paralyzing chance in my experience (just common enough to be a nuisance). Also think it is notable that it could use Toxic instead of Will-O-Wisp if it wants to beat CM FeatherDance Murkrow, but Will-O-Wisp is probably typically better.

Jan 20th, 2012, 3:07:12 PM	#1
Ray Jay Clearly cannot choose the wine in front of you Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,507	Checking / Countering the New LC Threats Approved by V / Endorsed by EM Hi everyone, unless you've been living under a Rock-type for the past week or so, you're aware there are some new (old) kids in the neighborhood of LC. This thread attempts to post your methods of handling these Pokemon. Please do not discuss the viability / brokenness of the Pokemon in this thread (use the sticky for that). Also keep in mind we are zeroing in on just the 3 above Pokemon; there is another thread dedicated to the game "Beat that (Baby) Pokemon". Some things to keep in mind: When posting a check / counter, mention not only what Pokemon it handles, but what set it handles (for example, Misdreavus can run Eviolite or a Choice Scarf set) Feel free to comment on the sets of others. Do not merely post a set, mention what teammates work well, how the set is to be used, whether it is a complete counter or just a check, etc. Make sure you actually test the set before posting it! An example: Snover @ Choice Scarf Naive \| Snow Warning 100 Atk / 180 SpA / 200 Spe -Blizzard -Giga Drain -Ice Shard -Hidden Power (Rock) This set is important to any team lacking a solid Pokemon to revenge. Notably, it outspeeds Gligar and will not be OHKOed by Quick Attack unless Gligar nabs a Swords Dance and Snover takes some previous damage; but even still, it can use Ice Shard if it absolutely has to (or Gligar decides to use Agility). It is also notable in revenging offensive Murkrow, who will be picked off with impunity as long as it doesn't have a Substitute up. Misdreavus makes a useful teammate, as it handles Choice Scarf Mienfoo and other Fighting-types. This combo is also notable in that Scraggy, the one Fighting-type Misdreavus has trouble with, can't switch into Blizzard and try to set up. __________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. Katakiri: How did you even get into this university? Last edited by Aerrow; Jan 26th, 2012 at 8:30:56 PM.

Jan 20th, 2012, 3:29:33 PM	#2
comatthew6 # fucks I give = lim(x-->0)[cos(x) - 1]/x Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,585 New Jersey	Hi! Placeholder for my thoughts. To counter Misdreavus: Stunky (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Aftermath EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 188 SDef / 4 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Sucker Punch - Pursuit - Crunch / Fire Blast - Explosion / Fire Blast Yup! It's your standard Elevator Music Stunky. Crunch is important on this set because it prevents Misdreavus from effectively using Nasty Plot, as a boosted HP Fighting won't be enough to KO and Stunky can easily KO back with Crunch then Sucker Punch (maybe even without Sucker Punch). It traps ones that are thinking about switching out with Pursuit, and can go out with a bang on the next Pokemon by using Explosion. This set obviously loses to the other two Pokemon mentioned here, but then again, it shouldn't be used against those two. Snover is a great check to them, and it also beats sandstorm when used in conjunction with Staryu. __________________ * BarackObama gives channel operator status to comatt6 * V0x get down on knees # of facebook statuses user: jumpluff has liked: 7 My purpose is clear. My targets - doomed.

Jan 20th, 2012, 3:32:49 PM	#3
Princess of Johto Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,630 Ohio	Misdreavus check/counter: Stunky (F) @Eviolite Calm • Aftermath 12 HP / 12 Atk / 140 Def / 108 SpA / 188 SpD / 12 Spe (Gosh I love Stunky's stat distribution!) ~ Dark Pulse ~ Fire Blast ~ Toxic / Hidden Power [Ice] / Sludge Bomb??? ~ Sucker Punch / Pursuit / Explosion??? Well, I honestly can say that I haven't tested this set, but I'm planning to soon. As you all know, most Misdreavus carry Will-o-Wisp, which either cripples Physical Stunky or forces it to run a Lum Berry. I thought, why not use a Specially based Stunky?! Switch in on an Eviolite Misdreavus (or even scarf, it can take a few SBall's). They'll probably use WoW, but, they will be surprised to be smacked by a STAB Dark Pulse that is not coming off of a halved stat. Fire Blast hits steels, and the last two slots are a bit tricky (mostly filler). I decided HP Ice could be useful to hit any predicted Gligar switch-ins, but it's really not that useful since Gligar outspeeds :( Sludge Bomb... hits Murkrow harder? xD Actually, I guess Toxic can go in that 3rd slot since it limits Gligar/Murkrow's survivability and other defensive mons. So I'll slash that first. The last move is mostly filler. Sucker Punch coming from a stat of 11 won't hit hard, but it could be useful to possibly beat a weakened sweeper like Drilbur. Pursuit traps ghosts / Abra and Explosion hits hard (although not as hard as you would think... so I think that should be removed). I'm a bit unsure about the EV spread. Max SpD is almost mandatory, but I'm sure a set that sacrifices some Defense for more power could be used. 12 HP / 12 Atk / 60 Def / 188 SpA / 188 SpD / 12 Spe or something. Again, haven't tested it and I'm really unsure about the moveset, but it seems like it would work! :3 __________________ » My Pokemon » BW Entralink PID+IV abuse guide » BW ID/SID+shiny starter abuse guide » HGSS Safari Zone abuse guide » Pokecheck Box

Jan 20th, 2012, 4:34:50 PM	#5
Chieliee Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,463	Tirtouga (M) @ Splash Plate Trait: Sturdy EVs: 4 HP / 216 Atk / 12 Def / 76 SDef / 180 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Shell Smash - Aqua Jet - Aqua Tail - Stone Edge (Set made by em) Unlike most other set-uppers, Tirtouga is not stopped by Haze Murkrow. If your opponent lacks Murkrow, Gligar and Misdreavus don't stand a chance. If your opponent does have a Murkrow, you just gotta try to set up twice. Also, it beats the fuck out of Natu. __________________ nyuu~ This is the world we live in And these are the hands we're given Use them and lets start trying To make it a place worth living in.

Jan 20th, 2012, 10:37:52 PM	#6
Princess of Johto Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,630 Ohio	Thanks, Comatt. I was unsure about the EVs, which is why I posted an alternate spread below (The alternate spread gave the max SpA, 13, while still retaining a stat of 12 in Def, which is pretty respectable, Imo). I want to try out the set soon but I've got other stuff to do :S Chieliee, I'm just confused about the item. Why not just use LO? Or maybe even Muscle Band if you don't want to take recoil. But why Splash Plate? :o Mienfoo (F) @Choice Scarf Naive / Naughty (Not sure if a scarf set really needs +Spe) • Regenerator 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe (You can invest in some SpA, but you it's a 2HKO either way unless you invest all the way to 14 SpA, in which case you lose lots of physical power) IVs: 30 HP / 30 Def ~ Hi Jump Kick ~ Hidden Power [Ice] ~ U-turn ~ Stone Edge / Drain Punch Gligar check (def. not a counter). What I'm thinking with this set is simple. Switch in on something that Mienfoo will threatens out, like Porygon or something. If your opponent has Gligar, they will most likely switch that in (unless they have a ghost). Nail them with HP Ice for a nice 2HKO and with scarf you outspeed. It's best to keep it so that your opponent doesn't know you're scarfed, because if they know they will most likely switch Gligar out after the first HP Ice. But if they're clueless, they will stay in thinking they will outspeed. However, after Gligar dies, the opponent basically has a free set up turn so make sure to pack a counter for things that set up on Mienfoo. HJK and U-turn are self-explanatory. Stone Edge in the last slot to hit Larvesta and ghosts (I think Missy takes quite a hit from Stone Edge), but Drain Punch can be used for a more reliable STAB. Also, I haven't tested this set either :x Edit: Ohhh! I forgot about Sturdy. Thanks, RayJay. It's a shame that Splash Plate only boosts water attacks by 1.2, but Muscle Band really sucks. I thought it gave the same boost LO gave but only for physical moves. A 1.1 boost isn't worth it :s __________________ » My Pokemon » BW Entralink PID+IV abuse guide » BW ID/SID+shiny starter abuse guide » HGSS Safari Zone abuse guide » Pokecheck Box Last edited by Princess of Johto; Jan 20th, 2012 at 11:06:20 PM.

Jan 21st, 2012, 7:13:38 AM	#9
Furai standing in the eye of the hurricane Moderator Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,095	Basically, all 3 are Toxic weak. It wears them down so quickly, and especially Misdreavus, who doesn't usually carry a recovery move. In the case of Murkrow, if it carries Taunt, repeated hits will shut it down, especially when Roost makes it only a Dark-type. (I'll post a counter for Gligar after I come back, stay tuned~) __________________ *#gohard* \| Wolfpack (Ubers RMT)

Jan 21st, 2012, 9:19:03 AM	#12
San_Pellegrino the eternal dreamer Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,600	well I use Sub + Ice Punch + Crunch + Drain Punch Scraggy __________________

Jan 21st, 2012, 11:42:15 AM	#14
prem failed abortion Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,214 <@Sarenji> anyway i learned knitting pretty fast <@Sarenji> because im a woman Mentor	Magnemite @ Eviolite Trait: Magnet Pull EVs: 156 HP / 40 Def / 156 SAtk / 156 SDef Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Volt Switch - Flash Cannon - Magnet Rise - Thunderbolt my murkrow counter because that thing is literally gayer than missy and gligar combined cause scarf missy can beat both of those 2. This set has great bulk, resists both of murkrows stabs can beat the cm sets if you play it right. mixkrow might be an issue with heat wave, but i for one have never seen it and even then mite takes that for ~84% when krow is using life orb so mite still wins magnet rise is a beast move so im not set up fodder to gligar, fucked by diglett, and always beat bronzor. thunderbolt for damaging attack, volt switch for scouting, and flash cannon for gligar and reliable stab __________________ +Yamata no Orochi: I don't get pussy

Jan 21st, 2012, 1:07:45 PM	#16
Charmander Mission Complete Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,690 Great Falls, VA Mentor	Hidden Power Ice only does 32% to bulky variants. Gligar with Substitute / Taunt and Roost can stall out Bronzor with some prediction, which makes it a pretty unreliable check to all Gligar. You should invest more in special attack and less in attack. Earthquake doesn't really even hit anything except Magnemite, who usually has Magnet Rise anyway. Pawniard takes Earthquake very well, and Hidden Power Ice still hits Gligar harder after a Roost (obviously). Maybe try Psychic there for Mienfoo and friends? Mienfoo is scarfed a lot more now, so that'd be a better Gligar check and a better all-around utility. __________________

Jan 21st, 2012, 5:10:17 PM	#17
Vix Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 83 MI	I think I have found my gligar counter! O_o (Piplup) (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Torrent EVs: 172 HP / 172 Def / 32 SAtk / 68 SDef / 36 Spd Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Stealth Rock - Scald/Hydro pump - Ice Beam - Hidden Power [Electric] Takes anything gligar can dish out and OHKO's it in return and it sets up rocks. It truly proved itself in this battle I had with blarajan; I also tried out the special stunky set here as well. ... Battle between blarajan and Vix started! Tier: Standard LC Mode: Singles Variation: +28, -4 Rule: Rated Rule: Sleep Clause Rule: Species Clause Rule: Wifi Battle Your team: Piplup / Koffing / Munchlax / Misdreavus / Stunky / Mienfoo Opponent's team: Croagunk / Gligar / Misdreavus / Bronzor / Scraggy / Shellder blarajan sent out Thugtastic! (Gligar) Vix sent out Zelfur! (Piplup) Start of turn 1 blarajan called Thugtastic back! blarajan sent out Thugnificent! (Croagunk) Zelfur used Ice Beam! Blarajan's Thugnificent lost 26% of its health! Start of turn 2 Blarajan's Thugnificent used Fake Out! Zelfur lost 3 HP! (12% of its health) Zelfur flinched! Start of turn 3 blarajan called Thugnificent back! blarajan sent out J Cole! (Bronzor) Zelfur used Stealth Rock! Pointed stones float in the air around blarajan's team! Start of turn 4 Zelfur used Scald! Blarajan's J Cole lost 28% of its health! Blarajan's J Cole used Stealth Rock! Pointed stones float in the air around Vix's team! Start of turn 5 Zelfur used Scald! Blarajan's J Cole lost 24% of its health! Trop NU alt 3 is watching the battle. Blarajan's J Cole used Toxic! The attack of blarajan's J Cole missed! Start of turn 6 Vix called Zelfur back! Vix sent out testing! (Stunky) Pointed stones dug into testing! blarajan called J Cole back! blarajan sent out Thugnificent! (Croagunk) Pointed stones dug into blarajan's Thugnificent! Start of turn 7 Blarajan's Thugnificent used Fake Out! Testing lost 3 HP! (13% of its health) Testing flinched! Start of turn 8 blarajan called Thugnificent back! blarajan sent out Thugtastic! (Gligar) Pointed stones dug into blarajan's Thugtastic! Testing used Fire Blast! Blarajan's Thugtastic lost 43% of its health! Alucard is watching the battle. Alucard: what? Alucard: you're 1st on the ladder Start of turn 9 Vix called testing back! Vix sent out 1 month tops! (Misdreavus) Pointed stones dug into 1 month tops! Blarajan's Thugtastic used Acrobatics! Blarajan's Thugtastic's Flying Gem raised Acrobatics's power! 1 month tops lost 16 HP! (72% of its health) Alucard: can't be true blarajan: ? blarajan: ?? Alucard: lol Start of turn 10 blarajan called Thugtastic back! blarajan sent out Thugnificent! (Croagunk) Pointed stones dug into blarajan's Thugnificent! 1 month tops used Icy Wind! Blarajan's Thugnificent lost 21% of its health! Blarajan's Thugnificent's Speed fell! Vengeful Spirit is watching the battle. Vengeful Spirit stopped watching the battle. Start of turn 11 Blarajan's Thugnificent used Sucker Punch! But if failed! 1 month tops used Will-O-Wisp! Blarajan's Thugnificent was burned! Blarajan's Thugnificent is hurt by its burn! Start of turn 12 Vix called 1 month tops back! Vix sent out Smogon! (Koffing) Pointed stones dug into Smogon! Blarajan's Thugnificent used Sucker Punch! But if failed! Blarajan's Thugnificent is hurt by its burn! corn bred nigga is watching the battle. Start of turn 13 Smogon used Fire Blast! A critical hit! Blarajan's Thugnificent lost 26% of its health! Blarajan's Thugnificent fainted! corn bred nigga stopped watching the battle. blarajan sent out Thugcellent! (Misdreavus) Pointed stones dug into blarajan's Thugcellent! Start of turn 14 Vix called Smogon back! Vix sent out testing! (Stunky) Pointed stones dug into testing! Blarajan's Thugcellent used Will-O-Wisp! Testing was burned! Testing is hurt by its burn! Start of turn 15 Blarajan's Thugcellent used Hidden Power! Testing lost 5 HP! (21% of its health) Testing used Dark Pulse! It's super effective! Blarajan's Thugcellent lost 54% of its health! Testing is hurt by its burn! Start of turn 16 Blarajan's Thugcellent is being sent back! Testing used Pursuit! It's super effective! Blarajan's Thugcellent lost 27% of its health! blarajan called Thugcellent back! blarajan sent out Thug Life! (Scraggy) Pointed stones dug into blarajan's Thug Life! Testing is hurt by its burn! Start of turn 17 Vix called testing back! Vix sent out Smogon! (Koffing) Pointed stones dug into Smogon! Blarajan's Thug Life used Drain Punch! It's not very effective... Smogon lost 3 HP! (13% of its health) Smogon had its energy drained! Start of turn 18 Blarajan's Thug Life used Crunch! Smogon lost 6 HP! (26% of its health) Smogon used Will-O-Wisp! The attack of Smogon missed! Start of turn 19 Blarajan's Thug Life used Dragon Dance! Blarajan's Thug Life's Attack rose! Blarajan's Thug Life's Speed rose! Smogon used Pain Split! The battlers shared their pain! Start of turn 20 Blarajan's Thug Life used Crunch! Smogon lost 9 HP! (39% of its health) Smogon's Defense fell! Smogon used Clear Smog! Blarajan's Thug Life lost 19% of its health! Blarajan's Thug Life's stat changes were eliminated! Start of turn 21 Vix called Smogon back! Vix sent out MienFOO!! (Mienfoo) Pointed stones dug into MienFOO!! Blarajan's Thug Life used Crunch! It's not very effective... MienFOO! lost 7 HP! (33% of its health) MienFOO!'s Defense fell! soviet is watching the battle. Start of turn 22 blarajan called Thug Life back! blarajan sent out Thugcellent! (Misdreavus) Pointed stones dug into blarajan's Thugcellent! Blarajan's Thugcellent fainted! MienFOO! used Drain Punch! But there was no target... blarajan sent out Thugtastic! (Gligar) Pointed stones dug into blarajan's Thugtastic! Start of turn 23 MienFOO! used U-turn! It's not very effective... Blarajan's Thugtastic lost 13% of its health! Vix called MienFOO! back! Vix sent out Zelfur! (Piplup) Pointed stones dug into Zelfur! Blarajan's Thugtastic used Roost! Blarajan's Thugtastic landed on the ground! Blarajan's Thugtastic regained health! soviet: does mienfoo hit 19 spe? blarajan: no. Vix: no but almost all of them are scarfed blarajan: lol no. Vix: so its more like 24 soviet: scarf mienfoo is really bad soviet: lol Start of turn 24 blarajan called Thugtastic back! blarajan sent out J Cole! (Bronzor) Pointed stones dug into blarajan's J Cole! Zelfur used Ice Beam! It's not very effective... Blarajan's J Cole lost 8% of its health! Start of turn 25 Zelfur used Scald! Blarajan's J Cole lost 24% of its health! Blarajan's J Cole was burned! Blarajan's J Cole used Toxic! Zelfur was badly poisoned! Zelfur is hurt by poison! Blarajan's J Cole is hurt by its burn! Blarajan's J Cole fainted! blarajan sent out Thugtastic! (Gligar) Pointed stones dug into blarajan's Thugtastic! Start of turn 26 Blarajan's Thugtastic used Acrobatics! Zelfur lost 10 HP! (41% of its health) Zelfur used Ice Beam! It's super effective! Blarajan's Thugtastic lost 69% of its health! Blarajan's Thugtastic fainted! Zelfur is hurt by poison! blarajan: what the fuck. Vix: LOL blarajan: that's supposed to ko. Vix: ikr blarajan sent out Thug Life! (Scraggy) Pointed stones dug into blarajan's Thug Life! Raseri is watching the battle. Vix: unless... I have 22def Start of turn 27 Blarajan's Thug Life used Drain Punch! Zelfur lost 4 HP! (16% of its health) Zelfur fainted! Zelfur had its energy drained! Vix sent out MienFOO!! (Mienfoo) Pointed stones dug into MienFOO!! Razza is watching the battle. Raseri: blara i beat franky Start of turn 28 blarajan called Thug Life back! blarajan sent out Thug Tongue! (Shellder) Pointed stones dug into blarajan's Thug Tongue! MienFOO! used Hi Jump Kick! Raseri: but then i lost blarajan: nice :D. Blarajan's Thug Tongue lost 89% of its health! Blarajan's Thug Tongue fainted! blarajan: lol gg. Razza stopped watching the battle. blarajan: what the fucking fuck piplup. blarajan sent out Thug Life! (Scraggy) Pointed stones dug into blarajan's Thug Life! Vix: saved log Start of turn 29 MienFOO! used Hi Jump Kick! It's super effective! Blarajan's Thug Life lost 52% of its health! Blarajan's Thug Life fainted! Vix won the battle! Vix: A fine battle! May we do this again someday! Raseri stopped watching the battle. This is the end of the replay __________________ #1 Bayleef fan on Smogon WOO! current tier: LC and Ou (but I fail at Ou still...)

Jan 21st, 2012, 5:20:29 PM	#18
Princess of Johto Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,630 Ohio	Hmm, my special Stunky set really lacks power, sadly. But that Piplup is pretty impressive (and cute! I love Piplup! :D). Nice set! I might try that out sometime. __________________ » My Pokemon » BW Entralink PID+IV abuse guide » BW ID/SID+shiny starter abuse guide » HGSS Safari Zone abuse guide » Pokecheck Box

Jan 21st, 2012, 7:17:35 PM	#19
blarajan no abuse pls Moderator Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,723 Mentor	This is the beast that I have used on my team and absolutely loved. It is an absolute monster. You fucking ready for this, kids? HERE IT COMES. This monster just smashes the tier. Thug Tongue (Shellder) (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Skill Link EVs: 236 Atk / 76 SDef / 196 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Icicle Spear - Rock Blast - Razor Shell - Ice Shard Sub Murkrow? No problem! Sub Gligar? ROFL. Even manages to OHKO Oran Dwebble assuming one crit rock blast or max damage roll. It's just a beast, use it. Also, fuck you Vix lol. Posting one of my worst played matches ever. =(. __________________ Team Babby: Little Cup in Ubers RMT

Jan 21st, 2012, 7:32:14 PM	#20
Methmite Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 150	Was actually just going to post that; blara. Thing gets in the way a lot; eventually I developed ways of getting around it, but i lost a couple of games because of it. __________________ (01:44:11) +blarajan: stop organizing threesomes in the main chat.

Jan 22nd, 2012, 7:19:13 PM	#21
Vix Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 83 MI	Yeah that shellder set is brutal. The only way I have found around it is munchlax and scarfers and they do not work every time too. also blarajan, I'm sorry if the log offended you but it was the only log I had that proved the piplup set was viable plus I know that match was a fluke,the surprise piplup set was really the only reason I won. __________________ #1 Bayleef fan on Smogon WOO! current tier: LC and Ou (but I fail at Ou still...) Last edited by Vix; Jan 22nd, 2012 at 7:20:45 PM. Reason: wording

Jan 23rd, 2012, 3:03:45 AM	#23
spuds4ever Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 660 UK	I find the best way to counter gligar is to pack some ice attacks on a fair few of your team members, preferably some unexpected ones, like ice punch on munchlax which works really well, hidden power ice on mienfoo lets it flourish really well in the tier still, and ice beam is very handy on chinchou as it can easily OHKO volt-switch's most common switch-in. Over-all, ice is a handy type to pack into your team as there aren't actually that many resistances, the most notable ones are just the shell-smashers and bronzor and is IMO the best way to counter gligar. Still trying to find a solid check to misdreavus out-side of stunky though. If only munchlax got crunch....

Jan 23rd, 2012, 10:16:49 PM	#24
Danilo Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,718 http://justsmogonthings.tumblr.com/	Koffing (M) @ Eviolite Trait: Levitate EVs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 76 SDef Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Pain Split - Clear Smog - Thunderbolt - Will-O-Wisp I haven't tested this but Koffing seems really good. Deals with all non-acrobatics Gligar, Scraggy, and has Thunderbolt for Murkrow. Pain Split for recovery, Clear Smog for set up, Thunderbolt for Murkrow, and Will-O-Wisp for physically sweepers. What could go wrong?! __________________ kael: =\\ kael: fuck kael: pako kael: I WANT DESTROY HE kael: HE DON'T RESPECT ME