(Standard) NOC Medieval Mafia - Game Over: Majora's Maskians Win

[Blue_Tornado]

Actually, one more thing before I leave.

Any reason for applying logic to billymills in specific, and this early?

[UncleSam]

Originally Posted by Fat Blue_Tornado

Actually, one more thing before I leave.

Any reason for applying logic to billymills in specific, and this early?

Because billymills is the only one who my logic of "well he has been village in every other NOC game before and Walrein is the type of host who would notice that and want to change things up" applies to?

As for why I'm not applying logic to anyone else, it's because I haven't thought of anything else yet (apart from that I legitimately think the announcer is kinda an idiot).

[Yeti]

i think unclesam is mafia, note how he posted a tl;dr to be funny and draw our attention onto him as the jokester of the village, making him an all-around good guy. by tricking walrein into admitting he has problems touching himself uncontrollably, unclesam presents himself as the boss of this, and now his hyuckster behavior will get him trusted!!!!!

HE'S CLEARLY TRYING TO MASK HIS SCUM BLOOD DON'T BE TAKEN IN

[Blue_Tornado]

Was asking because pointing fingers at USER in specific this early could be read as a scum-motivated attempt at making town focus on town.

About the announcer; the only good an [announcer who reveals us their username] would be is a good scum NK. No reason to be doing that.

Yeti should start posting srs posts eventually. Eventually.

Gone.

[zorbees]

announcer is a useless role it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for announcer to die.

Lynch Quagsires

EDIT: unbolded vote

[Quagsires]

I think it was actually smart for the announcer to not state who they were, since it keeps one possibility for a power role for the mafia to consider, although that is assuming a village announcer. I would like to point out precedent of no mafia announcer, but this IS Spiffy we're talking about, so...

I would also point out that if there is the possibility of a mafia announcer, there is no reason for the mafia to kill the announcer, since they could keep us guessing as to whether or not the announcer is village, since killing a virtually confirmed villager sounds like a good option to me so as to keep the village guessing as to whom is mafia, with no one they can really trust.

However, this of course does not give any evidence for kingofkongs, as Unclesam's logic clearly shows him being retarded (and with an amazing panda too to cement his creditability), and he should still be considered for a lynch.

[Jalmont]

Originally Posted by Fat Quagsires

I think it was actually smart for the announcer to not state who they were, since it keeps one possibility for a power role for the mafia to consider, although that is assuming a village announcer. I would like to point out precedent of no mafia announcer, but this IS Spiffy we're talking about, so...

I would also point out that if there is the possibility of a mafia announcer, there is no reason for the mafia to kill the announcer, since they could keep us guessing as to whether or not the announcer is village, since killing a virtually confirmed villager sounds like a good option to me so as to keep the village guessing as to whom is mafia, with no one they can really trust.

However, this of course does not give any evidence for kingofkongs, as Unclesam's logic clearly shows him being retarded (and with an amazing panda too to cement his creditability), and he should still be considered for a lynch.

Quagsires, didn't the returning to our roots noc game feature a mafia announcer? Incidentally, the mafia announcer was kingofkongs iirc. I could also be reading this completely wrong, so if i am I'm sorry!

Good luck everyone! (except for the mafia)

[Quagsires]

Originally Posted by Fat Jalmont

Quagsires, didn't the returning to our roots noc game feature a mafia announcer? Incidentally, the mafia announcer was kingofkongs iirc. I could also be reading this completely wrong, so if i am I'm sorry!

Good luck everyone! (except for the mafia)

I subbed in day 3, but you are entirely correct.

Of course, that changes nothing, The announcer is either mafia or not (or wolf. or second mafia. or something crazy Spiffy/Walrein did that should never be done to an NOC). There's no reason to claim, nor is there any point in discussing whether or not they are besides they could be anything.

[billymills]

I am looking for a 'bell'.

Vote Rediamond

[Walrein]

Also, to those of you who have asked, items may NOT be passed during the day.

[Brammi]

Originally Posted by Fat kingofkongs

Generic Good Luck post.

Also if i get randlynched again for trolling I will give sheet access to everyone in this game and see how it turns out.

Bolded possible scumslip, discuss.

Vote: kok

[Steven Snype]

help

what do i do?

i'm new to noc and idk what i'm doing.

can we discuss possible game designs so far? this looks like a 1v1 game so far with the possibility of a neutral. 24 players so perhaps a 3-4 mafia with a possible wolf. i want to know if it's worth it so far to actually mislynch. I'd rather not mislynch unless we have to or we have a strong reason to lynch someone. I'm assuming most of the votes so far were just trolls, except for zorbees' and billymills', who I'm assuming were just votes to get people to talk.

I'm interested in hearing out people and getting a read on them. As I haven't seen him post yet, for the time being lynch rediamond to get him to talk.

[Ditto]

Daenym wanted me to post. So this is for him.

[askaninjask]

Firstly, I do not smell of week-old beer and hotdogs. Please. I'm not a Cowboys' fan.

I want to prematurely advise that lynching a troll is probably a bad idea! The mafia have reason not to want to throw the game, so they are more likely to take it seriously! That being said, I do think we have a better chance if everyone speaks as much (and as intelligently) as they can.

I'm going to call out the most experienced user on the playerlist who has yet to speak. For now, I'm voting Paperblade. I hope that he, more than anyone else, will be able to defend himself intelligently. If he manages to successfully deflect suspicion from himself, I suggest we move onto Yeti next, as even though she has posted, she has yet to contribute anything to the game other than glhf.

[kingofkongs]

Originally Posted by Fat Brammi

Bolded possible scumslip, discuss.

Vote: kok

Bolded possible Faggot, discuss.

[UncleSam]

Yo Crux feel free to speak up any time.

Also I suspect the following users up to this point:
-Blue_Tornado: Has seemed somewhat jumpy and leaped up to defend billymills, who as I mentioned I think is more likely to be mafia than other players.
-billymills: I mentioned this earlier and he ignored it, but then again it's not like it's something he can defend against anyway so I guess I'll just say I'd really like some more information on what this mysterious "bell" item does?
-kingofkongs: He has seemed incredibly defensive and jumpy thus far (even as early as N0), and immediately accused Snype of being WOLF rather than mafia, which imo is a little suspicious. Brammi's "scumslip" makes no sense to me, and I think there are much better reasons to suspect him than saying he will reveal sheet or w/e he said.

By far the post I am most suspicious of thus far, however, is this one:

Originally Posted by Fat Steven Snype

help

what do i do?

i'm new to noc and idk what i'm doing.

can we discuss possible game designs so far? this looks like a 1v1 game so far with the possibility of a neutral. 24 players so perhaps a 3-4 mafia with a possible wolf. i want to know if it's worth it so far to actually mislynch. I'd rather not mislynch unless we have to or we have a strong reason to lynch someone. I'm assuming most of the votes so far were just trolls, except for zorbees' and billymills', who I'm assuming were just votes to get people to talk.

I'm interested in hearing out people and getting a read on them. As I haven't seen him post yet, for the time being lynch rediamond to get him to talk.

You may be new to NOC but you are a more experienced mafia player than you are letting on and, while at first I thought your post was some sort of troll I really can't see how it is meant to be taken as anything but serious. Additionally, you implicitly imply that a no lynch would be good today somehow (it isn't), though I suppose this can be excused somewhat because it is true that you haven't played NOC before.

As for possible game designs, in my opinion with 24 players just one wolf and 3-4 mafia is WAY too little. It is possible there is a partner for the wolf, it is possible the mafia is larger, but I am fairly confident that a game would not get approved with one wolf and 3-4 mafia vs 19-20 villagers unless the villagers had no roles whatsoever...which doesn't seem to be the case because we know for sure we have an announcer at the very least, and what kind of hosts throw in just an announcer as a role?

Either way, Snype closes his post by simply following a vote started by billymills with almost no explanation for why he is voting as he is.

As for other users:
-Yeti seems to be doing the "lie low" thing she tends to do when she is mafia, but she really hasn't posted enough to get a read on her.
-askaninjask seems like he is being helpful and trying to get discussion going, but he DOES smell like week-old beer and hotdogs...
-Quagsires seems to be trying to get the village announcer not to claim, which I simply do not understand and would like more feedback from him on. Announcer is a completely useless role that probably wouldn't even get killed if it claimed, but it would give us a basis for discussion on someone new and we desperately need to get a LOT of dialogs going early so we can see who buddies with each other and follows on other's votes.
-zorbees just kinda called out an experienced player who hadn't talked yet and made imo a pretty sensible point about the announcer, not really any reads on him as of yet.
-Jalmont and Brammi made fairly useless and short posts that I really can't derive anything from other than that Brammi is probably not mafia with kingofkongs.

Also, and I seem to get ignored whenever I say this (referring to NOC Desktop Dungeons mafia here), but I think it is very important people post their opinions of ALL other players in this thread. It ensures that when people die later on, we get views on every single player from both known mafia and known villagers, which will make it MUCH easier to narrow down possible mafia alliances.

As for myself, I tried to post everything useful I have garnered thus far up above, and will continue to give my thoughts on all other players as they post.

[Yeti]

billymills is confirmed Staraptor Call 2.0, if he gets the diamo-BELL he will win n1, don't be taken in by his ruse, he is really just a lazy village thief and we need him ALIVE to steal from the mafians.

I am fairly certain that as long as the mafia starts united, LightWolf would approve this game, as you all know, he is very opposed to ununited factions, especially ones that have copied prior games when I complain to him about this blatant theft!!!!

thus my deduction is 5 mafia, 1 wolf, neutered vigilante, probably some weak but varied power roles spread out, and maybe 5-7 vanillas.

i await claims my speculation on the distribution makes me mafia.

my prior contribution is a warning: US is a very loud man, his mode of LEADING THIS VILLAGE is to tl;dr and speak forcefully. he will continue to tl;dr your ears off, and see earlier ploys of his itg and signups to gain trust as the funny man, who of course, is surely not mafia because the attention is on him.

i await further tl;drs of his to analyze for whether he is LEADING THIS VILLAGE as a villager or a scum. it's a shame he does the same thing regardless.......

[Ditto]

I think that 5 mafia and a wolf is a bit too many. I guess it's possible, but for a NOC that seems doesn't seem too likely.

[Steven Snype]

Originally Posted by Fat UncleSam

By far the post I am most suspicious of thus far, however, is this one:

You may be new to NOC but you are a more experienced mafia player than you are letting on and, while at first I thought your post was some sort of troll I really can't see how it is meant to be taken as anything but serious. Additionally, you implicitly imply that a no lynch would be good today somehow (it isn't), though I suppose this can be excused somewhat because it is true that you haven't played NOC before.

As for possible game designs, in my opinion with 24 players just one wolf and 3-4 mafia is WAY too little. It is possible there is a partner for the wolf, it is possible the mafia is larger, but I am fairly confident that a game would not get approved with one wolf and 3-4 mafia vs 19-20 villagers unless the villagers had no roles whatsoever...which doesn't seem to be the case because we know for sure we have an announcer at the very least, and what kind of hosts throw in just an announcer as a role?

Either way, Snype closes his post by simply following a vote started by billymills with almost no explanation for why he is voting as he is.

silly sam doesn't understand when to learn that all posts don't have to be completely serious.


and false, i did provide an explanation, albeit a very small one: get people to talk. if you'd like some elaboration, i played a short bit of irl rtm, and i'm just trying the system that worked for us. nom a player as a rand or keeping quiet early on, get him to talk, develop reads on everyone and decide then how to vote. i picked rediamond just b/c. the last IRC RTM i was in (in which i did a shit job, thanks for carrying pluff <3), village got screwed when villager yeti foced quags to pubclaim as inspector, causing him to be promptly killed (as bg was randed n1.) I don't want the village losing an important role yet; I, and I'm sure most other players, would rather have some information to go off of before making a lynch.

and if you don't believe i am inexperienced at this format, simply note that i legit thought that there were 3 mafias when Sam has demonstrated why it is impractical.

Also, the reason why I believe we should keep NL as a possibility open for now is b/c we don't know the setup of the game, so therefore, to me, it doesn't make sense to risk losing a potentially valuable player.

current reads on other players:

Sam: vocal as he usually is. however, he seems to cast doubt on other players. Is a bit quick to call attention to others. However, I think that's just him trying to be a villager.
Yeti: has only shown a read about US, and that is a bit suspicious to me, when other users have posted too.

[Paperblade]

I'm not sure if I like Sam wanting the announcer to out.

This is a seemingly innocuous statement, but there is no real reason for anyone to claim unless under the immediate threat of death, have a guilty (or otherwise interesting) night result, or we've reached the stage of the game where a mass claim is deemed appropriate (note: Day 1 is not that stage). It strikes me as similar to role fishing, which is usually an actual scumtell, compared to something like "hurrdurr lurking" or whatever which could just be a vanilla who is bored, an important role trying to stay under the radar from the mafia, or mafia trying to do the same. This tends to benefit the mafia because it tells them who is and isn't important/a threat, whereas it's not that useful to the village because they don't quite know who is lying.

In fact, I dislike this enough that rather than RNG a target, I'm going to vote UncleSam

[zorbees]

unvoted in earlier post

Vote Coronis

sorry buddy

EDIT: vote removed

[askaninjask]

Three things:

While we do have to be aware of the possibility that UncleSam is not a villager, he is promoting discussion for now, which is DEFINITELY a good thing.

Announcer is a useless role in any game, including a NOC one, and the prospect of some announcer leading us makes me vomit a little in my mouth.

I personally find Yeti's slipping between "Using Capital Letters" and "i cannot be assed to use capital letters" to be vaguely suspicious.

[UncleSam]

Originally Posted by Fat Paperblade

I'm not sure if I like Sam wanting the announcer to out.

This is a seemingly innocuous statement, but there is no real reason for anyone to claim unless under the immediate threat of death, have a guilty (or otherwise interesting) night result, or we've reached the stage of the game where a mass claim is deemed appropriate (note: Day 1 is not that stage). It strikes me as similar to role fishing, which is usually an actual scumtell, compared to something like "hurrdurr lurking" or whatever which could just be a vanilla who is bored, an important role trying to stay under the radar from the mafia, or mafia trying to do the same. This tends to benefit the mafia because it tells them who is and isn't important/a threat, whereas it's not that useful to the village because they don't quite know who is lying.

In fact, I dislike this enough that rather than RNG a target, I'm going to vote UncleSam

Oh there you are Paperblade.

I guess all I have to say is did you even read my posts or did you just panic when askaninjask called you out for not talking and immediately tried to shift suspicion onto someone else? Because if you had spent two minutes' worth of time reading what I wrote you would've found:

Originally Posted by Fat UncleSam

The announcer did not drop a hint as to who he was, thus proving his role and giving the rest of the Kingdom a person to rally around.

Originally Posted by Fat UncleSam

Now, this raises a few questions. Such as, why would the announcer not want the Kingdom to rally around one trusted user?

Originally Posted by Fat UncleSam, more serious

Announcer is a completely useless role that probably wouldn't even get killed if it claimed, but it would give us a basis for discussion on someone new and we desperately need to get a LOT of dialogs going early so we can see who buddies with each other and follows on other's votes.

And apparently you don't read what zorbees posts either:

Originally Posted by Fat zorbees

announcer is a useless role it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for announcer to die.

However, I have not dedicated any significant portion of a post to this point, so I will now address this more fully:
-The announcer is highly likely to be allied with the village. Unfortunately it is no longer the near-100% guarantee it used to be, but it nevertheless provides us with one person whose opinion we can analyze beyond simple "this is what I know of that user's playstyle".
-Quite frankly, if the mafia wants to kill the announcer rather than rand for a power role, I'd welcome them to do so. Yes I am aware this marginally improves the chances of the mafia randing a power role, but the difference between them randing at 1/~19 non-mafias (for argument's sake) is really not much better for the village than 1/~18, and the difference it would make in terms of providing things to discuss and claims to hold people to later in the game would more than make up for this difference.


Now then, I have a few further questions for you:
-Did you simply skim my posts, or why else did you disregard my previous points? You are an experienced enough mafia player to not throw out random accusations with no backing if you are a villager.
-Why did you skip over ~35 posts from other players (including askaninjask calling you out) and mention absolutely no one other than me?

As for Yeti's concerns that I lead the village every game I play, this is blatantly false; if you look back at every village game I have played, the ONLY times I have led the village was when I:
A. Was actually village (village won easily in these cases; Redwall, MOB, NOC Desktop Dungeons)
B. Was a mafia with a mole ability playing against beginners who I could easily trick (Luigi's Mansion)

If you look back at games where I was a mafia (Lord of the Flies, Mafia Mafia 2, Remoraid...) I almost always try to maintain a low profile and hope I don't get randed (and tend to get randed anyway lol). It would be retarded for a mafia with a relatively high profile name to draw even more attention to himself by being loud in the thread.

Now, the rules clearly state that there is no mafia with a mole ability, meaning that there is really no way you can say I am behaving as I usually do when I am mafia and there is every reason to note that I am behaving exactly as I do when I am a villager.

Now then, I find Paperblade's leaping to accuse someone else suspicious, but I am going to keep pushing Steven Snype because his most recent post only heightened my suspicions of him:

Originally Posted by Fat Steven Snype

silly sam doesn't understand when to learn that all posts don't have to be completely serious.


and false, i did provide an explanation, albeit a very small one: get people to talk. if you'd like some elaboration, i played a short bit of irl rtm, and i'm just trying the system that worked for us. nom a player as a rand or keeping quiet early on, get him to talk, develop reads on everyone and decide then how to vote. i picked rediamond just b/c. the last IRC RTM i was in (in which i did a shit job, thanks for carrying pluff <3), village got screwed when villager yeti foced quags to pubclaim as inspector, causing him to be promptly killed (as bg was randed n1.) I don't want the village losing an important role yet; I, and I'm sure most other players, would rather have some information to go off of before making a lynch.

and if you don't believe i am inexperienced at this format, simply note that i legit thought that there were 3 mafias when Sam has demonstrated why it is impractical.

Also, the reason why I believe we should keep NL as a possibility open for now is b/c we don't know the setup of the game, so therefore, to me, it doesn't make sense to risk losing a potentially valuable player.

current reads on other players:

Sam: vocal as he usually is. however, he seems to cast doubt on other players. Is a bit quick to call attention to others. However, I think that's just him trying to be a villager.
Yeti: has only shown a read about US, and that is a bit suspicious to me, when other users have posted too.

Firstly, he claims that his last post was a troll...kind of? It really didn't seem like a troll to me, and this seems like he is hoping to just pass off a suspicious post as "lulz I was just trollin' u br0" and move on without anyone being too suspicious.

Secondly, I find the way he described his "reads" on me and Yeti as a little strange: he seems to say that he thinks I am clean because I am acting like a villager? (in his words: "I think that's just him trying to be a villager") Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I want people to BE villagers, not act like them. Still, it is possible that is what he meant and I am just being semantic.

As for Yeti, he posts his read on her and says that he is suspicious she is only talking about me...when the only people HE is talking about are me and Yeti.

Anyhow that's all I got for now, apart from the observation that there are WAY too many people who haven't posted as of yet.

Oh ya, and Retract vote
Vote Steven Snype for all of the reasons stated above

[zorbees]

unclesam all the n0 posts were trolls because no real content was allowed

[Brammi]

@ Aska: that is a really weak vote, and the explaination doesn't add up. 1 vote isn't going to make anyone talk at all.

@ US: I pointed it out because how woul dhe be able to replicate his antics if he doesn't have mafia sheet access? It could be an empty threat or it could be a slip. I'll grant it's impossible to tell which but maybe just something to keep in mind later.

@ Snype: Everything you say in a mafia game, especially in a noc game, is important. Because from the way you say hi in the thread to the scummiest of actions, all are imfluenced by what you have in your role pm. Trying to say something isn't a serious post is stupid. Even though you may not have been serious it is still entirely possible for you to have given stuff about your role away simple through tone or whatever.

Basically don't try and use that cop out in a noc game ever again, a post you make may not mean anything to you when you post it, but it will if it gets used to show you as mafia. And passing it off wont cut it.

@ kok: Nice reaction there, you normally got jumpy at a couple of votes, or are you jumpy because you were caught?

@ zorbees: fos There is discussion going and you don't have an opinion. Great addition to this game. Do something helpful maybe? This goes for everyone ignoring the main discussions at any point in this game.

@ US: Outing the announcer is a bad idea. It's not like he can really lead the town and voting bloc strategies work best if there is mafia in them anyway because it becomes apparent very quickly. Actually a voting bloc might not be a bad idea seeing as traditional rvs is out the window.

Note: If snype is scum look at yeti closely.

@ US (again, I'm scrolling up and down commenting on stuff I find.): Post 1 was short from me, I missed the posts on this page when I made my post. So I'm making up for it now.

@ Snype: Mislynching isn't a bad thing. The idea of the majority minority setup is that town is supposed to be able to afford to let themselves die. Dying as town is, in part, an eventuality that is to be sought after if you are a weak role. Although that mainly applies to drawing the nightkill. Still, town shouldn't be afraid to be lynched, and if it provides help in working out who the scum are then dying the the right play. For example there are already connections being formed between players and the way people react to lynch wagons on people can only be properly analyzed if there is a flip to go on.

tl;dr It is NEVER a good idea to no lynch. The only time it is acceptable is in MYLO without an SK, and even then it is a 50/50, good/bad, play.

Unvote, Vote: Snype I like this wagon for now, I want to watch it grow and we'll go from there.