(Standard) NOC Medieval Mafia - Game Over: Majora's Maskians Win

[jumpluff*]

I'm actually impressed. But I didn't mean to imply that I'm 'certainly' village from everyone else's perspective, though I'm pretty sure I read my role PM correctly. If you were referring to the first instance I mentioned my alliance, everyone is treating your claim as established fact, and the only person who has mentioned any solid suspicion of me is j-squared (solid as in actually mentioned it as more than a passing possibility). In the second, everything I said is true as far as I can tell. But yeah, it may have been irresponsible to present it that way to pr777...

I won't talk about the conditions under which I subbed in, since I'm pretty sure that's unfairly meta, not that anything I claimed about them could be verified, but just for fun I will confirm that they existed. And nobody has any information on how I play as a NOC villager from other games, except from RTMs (and so you'd know I play those as villager pretty much exactly the same way I play them as mafia), because like I've mentioned before, I've only ever been mafia in them. But I have to say I found your post to be a pretty good point (if not entirely accurate)! I often request to be mafia in games I join. Pretty sure I'm retroactively excused for wanting to be mafia in NPL anyway due to powers of foresight...

Also, to play devil's advocate, my claim would be the most unreasonable IN CONTEXT imo since I claimed my rolename last, though I sat on it for a perfectly valid reason (and until someone else claimed nobility I was pretty sure I had been proven right). Furthermore, lord is a title of address more often than an actual noble rank. Though, interestingly, Wikipedia claims viscounts are actually addressed as 'my lord'. And Viscounts and Lords don't rule countries, but Duke is a title that can and has been used for monarchs.

My argument for believing there was a pattern was not that I believe Spiffy and Walrein are too stupid to find out what a viscount is, but instead for an amusing recurring flavour... because I don't think they're too stupid or lazy to look up something to write about a role they'd put in, so it's meant to be a running gag or something. It's worth mentioning that my PM doesn't imply Spiffy and Walrein don't know what a lord is so much (I'd be pretty scared if they didn't) as it suggests lords don't do anything useful at all and are just there to be rich and look pretty.

PS: You mentioned having unsaid problems with askaninjask earlier. Any need to say them? I don't need any more reason to want him gone unless he claims something very good or there's strong evidence he is the Sun, and I'd prefer to keep voting the way I suggested pr777 vote (though I don't know where people [Dummy] got the idea from that it was a plan or anything, since I clearly stated in the post I brought it up in that the possibility of an NL is not so favourable). Thus I'm indifferent if they're minor, nitpicky, or being kept secret for some reason known only to you, but if it's something majorly condemning that could be linked to other people, it's worth hearing.

[billymills]

Honestly I'd much rather an LKK lynch, looking back.

My problems with aska were I felt he followed others a few too many times. His post in defense of Cereza made me truly suspicious, but looking back it appears to have directed attention against Quagsires instead...

That said he did attempt to crush any move against Leethoof in 318 as you said, while not being to explicit about it. With all but a couple of people yet to claim and the sun among them, I do not think we should risk it.

People I do want to point out, again for rather meta-reasons:

zorbees, Rediamond, and kingofkongs have been here since the start of the game, none of them has a solid claim. The only others to have stayed this long are me, crux, paperblade and askaninjask. Crux has been staying sane by trolling, aska by leaving whenever he feels like it. Paper, I and zorbees have been contributing but Rediamond and kok have done very, very little and still have decided to stick around even though they are only villagers. Other people of note are LKK as before, who subbed in for Metal Bagon and Ace Emerald who subbed in for Brammi. I would not be surprised if a majority of the mafia are hidden in those 4.

For now I'm going to @@unvote@@@@vote loudkirbyking@@ because of a poor claim, useless role, and rather poor blabbering. I am also going to ask Ace Emerald to martyr me tonight, make of this what you will.

[jumpluff*]

zorbees has a solid claim in that nobody else claimed vigilante, which I would expect to be on almost every NOC village (though it is worth noting that the flavour changer may be there to give them a safe claim; I'm assuming they can change the flavour because, well, look at the updates...). Rediamond's and kok's aren't solid exactly, and the main reason I haven't kept pressing kok is because of his very early push on Quagsires. Though I should re-examine that, I think -- did he follow it up or not?

I think your characterisation is a little unfair though because if aska gets off for 'leaving whenever he feels like it', so should kok and Rediamond, who have disappeared for over a week in the past as well and keep coming back at their own pace. The difference between the two is probably that kok has previously liked to pretend he is doing something useful by disappearing, calling out inactives, then disappearing again, while I do not recall any of that from Rediamond off the top of my head.

Additionally, there are some who have been here almost as long as you guys or subbed out only very recently. I could name them but most of them aren't great lynch targets, so: MK Ultra cruised along for a very long time, far less audaciously than Crux, putting as much effort in as he felt he needed to. Of course we now have SoulTorrent and he hasn't claimed -___- The very early subs are worth paying attention to imo, as I would not put it past some of them to sub out because they don't want to have to play as mafia in an NOC, which I can attest puts pressure on a newer player (TalkingLion, for example). Thus I am not entirely convinced that the group you mentioned is the only one worth looking at.

I'm really not confident at all about this lkk lynch (whereas a few ingame days ago I was in support of it even), but it may be worthwhile to switch so that pr777 can prove whether he is mayor or not. I've given my reason so many times it starts to sound weak, given his behaviour, and for all I know Metal Bagon is just a loose cannon. I won't switch unless I have to to fix the numbers, I think -- I'll wait to see if it's necessary rather than push the lynch in lkk's direction, given your and my fanbases. Then again I'm becoming increasingly less sure of my instincts (Ditto/j^2-induced midgame crisis), so I'm hardly sure of anything at this point... part of the reason I was so eager to go easier on the scumhunting and push claims out of people.

I am also going to ask Ace Emerald to martyr me tonight, make of this what you will.

*waves*

ETA: Oh! I have an idea now. Watch me die before I can try it. Walrein and Spiffy, does telepathy count as outside communication?

[billymills]

I'd far rather a pr777 v lkk lynch than a pr777 v aska lynch.

aska didn't really get off for free, he was one of the most active people until he left indefinitely. kok never did anything. The main reason for this lynch is not metal bagon, I didn't care at all about what he did back then nor do I care about it now. lkk is grasping at excuses at this point.

[jumpluff*]

You know what? Let's just keep demanding that extension. aska and SoulTorrent's claims would make all the difference here. We can't argue the lkk thing any further between us -- you and I both can read capably and we've made it clear how we feel, so there's nothing I can add to that discussion. I want to see what other people think about loudkirbyking and askaninjask. Oh, and me for that matter. I have a huge ego and I love it when people are paying attention to me. So, everyone, tell me what you think about my alliance! Oh, wow, I sound so irritable when I post in this thread compared to how I used to... *lampshade*

@@Unvote@@

The less votes, the more likely we'll get it. Will place a vote again before I go to bed if an extension hasn't been declared. A long one, please. Six hours = worthless. If we can't get some replies out of people then lock the thread lol

ETA: I was accidentally (I swear) stalking your posts and I came across #1136, where you call zorbees clean. You don't think zorbees' claim is solid but acknowledge he has been contributing in #1252 (none of this stuff is mutually incompatible by default). So do you still think he's clean or did I misunderstand your post?

[pokemonrocks777]

so do i need to change my vote as well who do we need to vote?

[zorbees]

@@unvote@@ to be careful.

I honestly don't know what to make of askaninjask. You would think he would be subbed out or an extension would be given, but spiffy and walrein haven't been doing us any favors, so idk. He should get a bit of a pass since he's not actively lurking and was a useful contributor earlier when active. lkk is a bit more scummy, as I have no idea why he thinks billymills is suspicious, but I am still unsure. I think he would be a decent lynch target, but I still like ace emerald as a lynch target because of brammi. Jumpluff I feel is almost certainly town as she's been a major contributor and hasn't really shown any scumtells.

[Crux]

I am also think we need an extension.

[Rediamond]

Askaninjask: He hasn't done anything overtly scummy bar disappearing with warning in advance. Being unable to post is to his detriment, but I find it no grounds to lynch him on. O course, not being scummy somehow makes it scummy if you analyse him enough... I don't have an opinion backed by links to 10+ posts or any real evidence, but I feel as if he' villager hurt by being unable to post at a crucial time.

LKK: I'm afraid I can't criticise him for sporadic inactivity due to my own, but he has a much more aggressive tone in calling out inactives before going inactive himself. I feel as if this could be Mafia trying to avoid drawing attention to himself while drawing out possible claims of power roles -any real role in this village setup. This is only a theory, but it would explain his behaviour.

Jumpluff: Nothing overtly scummy, which is surprising given her surprising volume of posts. She is one of very few users keeping the discussion going, so a lynch would be a horrible idea.

As for "not having a solid claim;" I have a three sentance role PM and have no night actions. How can I make a 'solid claim' out of this, exactly?

[Dummy007]

@jumpluff: It wasn't a plan, per se, but it made enough sense to work as a way to clean/disprove pkrocks, so I figured it was worth supporting.

Anyway, opinions:

lkk: Somewhat overly defensive, definitely distrusting of billymills, and not very much of a contributor. While I think this can be attributed in part to being a new NOC player, I think it's over-the-top enough to seriously mark him as scummy.

aska: He was definitely villager material until he mysteriously disappeared. The fact that he hasn't been subbed out yet confuses me, although I suppose that people might be reluctant to sub into this game. I would consider him more of a 'last resort' lynch choice if no one else is shown to be sufficiently scummy.

jumpluff: Along with billymills and Crux, the cleanest user in the game atm imo. pluff has been incredibly active in promoting village discussion without resorting to full-blown walls of text or ridiculous threats. A very solid village leader overall.

[Paperblade]

aska seemed likely village from what I recall (hence why I tried to give him milk). I don't think not talking is scummy, especially when he hasn't even been around to update his own game.

Pretty much every post lkk has made is about him not trusting billy, so this isn't really anything new. In fact, the only other suspicions I can find from him are on Brammi and to a lesser extent, BT.

I think pluff is probably clean because active + good contributions and ideas, promotes discussion etc.

[Ace Emerald]

@@unvote@@ for now.

lkk: I think he is one of our best suspects at the moment. We have an excess of vanilla and nobility roles, and his is pretty obscure. In my inexperienced opinion, after we get the last two claims we should really scrutinize these vanilla claims. As billy pointed out in 1252, we have several vanillas that have stuck around doing nothing really, which is something to investigate.

aska: I don't know how I feel about lynching someone who is legitimently away. I don't think hes above suspicion, but aska hasn't been seen anywhere in days.

jumpluff: i dunno about this one, we should prolly keep an eye on her. Seriously, most helpful user we have, followed closely by billymills. If either is scum we should just call it a game.

@billymills I'll do whatever if it will help prove me clean, but how will that help? I thought you didn't have a night action?

[Walrein]

I'm going to grant a 48 hour extension.

Get shit done.

Also, anyone interested in subbing should contact me ASAP.

[loudkirbyking]

Brammi was indeed suspicious to me(I mentioned this before that Brammi's posts were beyond lacking and just trolls. Also pestered the inactives, but nobody really cares, and just focuses on my paranoia towards billy.)

Also, anyone noticed how we seemed to have lost a lot of the higher skilled players, and yet all but Quags have been village? Likely, for balance, one or two of the 'higher skilled' players that signed up originally are mafia.

Out of these(In my humble opinion) are likely one of the following:
Mk Ultra(Soultorrent now)
billymills
aska
Paperblade
zorbees(I think... I dunno so much on him)
Maybe Crux...? Not sure.

Those might be worth speaking to, simply for sake of balance. We've lost US, BT, Yeti, and Snype that signed up originally that are likely more high levelled players, so... yeah. MK Ultra, billy(Although he's proven himself more or less not so much mafia, I'm still a bit paranoid to him), aska(For obvious reasons right now), and Crux seem to be ones that are worth talking about right now.

Also, there was probably one or two users who aren't so good that got mixed in with mafia. Just about everyone else fills that slot.

Out of those, the two that strike me most are Cypher and Jalmont(EP and pokemonrocks now). Cypher due to giant amount of subs, while Jalmont more due to pr and mrc being very odd. That would be what I think.

Jumpluff hasn't rubbed off as suspicious to me, honestly, but she could be trying to do her best and the whole mind game thing coming into play, but I'm pretty dang sure she's village.

aska should get on, or at least should've told us before he split if he didn't...

Also, yes, I'm naturally an aggresive player. If you've played with me before, you know I'm that guy who talks to every bloody person in the game. But, NOC throws me off. First NOC game, and I just can't keep up with what I should say. When I post, I keep my style, yes. But otherwise, I just get to a loss for words. I could write some fancy story of lore, fights, and magical fantasies, but I can't figure out what to do here lol. Also, I'm going to be gone for the rest of tonight(May stop by before going to sleep, if not be gone for about 13-14 hours) so... I'll answer whatever I can if I can stay awake.

Also, just for saying, isn't duke like royalty higher ranked person, even though we have a king and what not all ready? Duke's roles depend on the book you read(Or RP you're in for some matter), but the fact of putting someone of ruler proportion seems a bit off to me since we got a king and stuff.

I vote if they don't claim within 12-24 hours, that we ask for them to be subbed, since it's been plenty of time... Long post, eh?

And finally, billymills, you mad bro?

[Engineer Pikachu]

Yeah I have no clue what to say.

jumpluff is absolutely village in my eyes, especially given that she's been spearheading most of the discussion; if she was actually mafia, then just staying on the edge between active and inactive would be enough to turn the village inside out >_>

I have a strong suspicion that—despite his claim of one-time vigilante AND the (I think) commonness of a vig on the village in NOC games—zorbees is scum. I have two reasons for this. First, zorbees claimed that he used it on wick (which would've been a N1 kill), and while he does mention that the mafia didn't kill anyone (post here), I don't think that there's any reason for the mafia to abstain from killing. Moreover, despite how sketchy this logic may seem, his role name claim—the executioner—does not match up with wick's kill flavor aka "dagger through the heart" at all; the latter seems more of "the assassin" than an executioner of any sort. Also, reading through the first ten pages or so, the only reason that I could glean that people were voting Coronis was that at first, he was inactive, and then he wasn't very helpful; I don't get why a vig would or would not kill such a person, so I'm just tossing that out there.

zorbees: why did you target wick?

[zorbees]

i targeted wick because he was not helping scumhunt at all, saying things like "well idk i might not even try" and ending the day voting no lynch. i felt like he was using his lack of noc experience as an excuse not to do anything. I doubt the mafia abstained from killing n1, i suspect they were blocked, possibly by wick himself, although idk. anyways i can't post for a couple hours after this.

[Acklow]

I don't mean to get on your tail here lkk, but Crux was cleaned by inspector Blue_Tornado, if that matters to you at all. So claiming that he's possible scum isn't viable at this point in the game.

I'll post more of my thoughts tomorrow morning once I wake up. I should be able to sort out all of my thoughts on the recent turn of events by then.

[loudkirbyking]

Originally Posted by Fat Acklow

I don't mean to get on your tail here lkk, but Crux was cleaned by inspector Blue_Tornado, if that matters to you at all. So claiming that he's possible scum isn't viable at this point in the game.

I'll post more of my thoughts tomorrow morning once I wake up. I should be able to sort out all of my thoughts on the recent turn of events by then.

I mean he fits under the more experienced players than who's village and who's not.

Perhaps someone who has played more games than me with these folks can aid on experience levels and potentials of where the hosts would place them.

[jumpluff*]

It seems there is more consensus on lkk than I thought.

I like your reasoning, Engineer Pikachu, and that was exactly the kind of post I was hoping to attract when I asked people for their opinions. I'll note that I don't suspect zorbees particularly, though he is the most suspicious experienced user after aska, who isn't here, so I'll ask this: zorbees, why didn't you just idle your power and try to push him to lynch the next day? You've stated you didn't know your power was one-time, but then how often were you planning on killing, knowing you might well hit villagers? Also, would you have targeted Quagsires? You were initially in support of lynching him (#419, a lynch vote D1) but changed your mind; I've probably missed some post, but I can't find anything where you give a judgment on whether you believed his claim or not.

Also, here's an 'interesting' question for lkk. Say I were to try to lynch billymills tomorrow. This might not even be hypothetical, so I want commitment, something I can hold you to. Would you put your money where your mouth is and join me? And another! And between Engineer Pikachu and zorbees, whom do you believe is more likely to be scum? Anyone else can answer this is if they like, but I want to see lkk's answer first, without someone posting something he can paraphrase.

Walrein, Spiffy, votecount, please? :)

[Spiffy]

Votecount:
jumpluff (1) - pokemonrocks777
askaninjask (1) - Dummy007
kingofkongs (1) - Acklow
loudkirbyking (1) - billymills

I apologize for disappearing yesterday, I couldn't get on a computer until now. Deadline in about 32 hours.

[Acklow]

Originally Posted by Fat Engineer Pikachu

I have a strong suspicion that—despite his claim of one-time vigilante AND the (I think) commonness of a vig on the village in NOC games—zorbees is scum. I have two reasons for this. First, zorbees claimed that he used it on wick (which would've been a N1 kill), and while he does mention that the mafia didn't kill anyone (post here), I don't think that there's any reason for the mafia to abstain from killing. Moreover, despite how sketchy this logic may seem, his role name claim—the executioner—does not match up with wick's kill flavor aka "dagger through the heart" at all; the latter seems more of "the assassin" than an executioner of any sort. Also, reading through the first ten pages or so, the only reason that I could glean that people were voting Coronis was that at first, he was inactive, and then he wasn't very helpful; I don't get why a vig would or would not kill such a person, so I'm just tossing that out there.

Engineer Pikachu, I don't think kill flavor really matters much in this game, because if you look at the kill flavor for all the rest of the nights, they are all very very different. So I don't think that it matters if the kill flavor matches up. Just a thought.

To be honest, I think the only reason anyone was questioning the legitimacy of askaninjask's cleanliness is twofold: Yeti voicing her suspicions on him and me voicing mine due to Yeti voicing hers. Otherwise, I don't think we can actually pinpoint his scumminess unless he comes back or gets a sub.

As for loudkirbyking. I don't think he's as worthy of a lynch target as kok. kingofkongs has a rather odd vanilla claim. So far, we have had 4 royalty claims (Queen included) and kok's is the only one that stands out being a priest. So my issue here is his claim being rather ill-placed for that kind of role-name. I would also suspect that a priest would at least have some sort of beneficial power in supporting the village, but all we have here is a vanilla claim. However, if we compare it to someone like Cereza/US's vanilla role, I guess it wouldn't be too out of place, it's just that I get the nagging feeling that either we need to take out one royalty vanilla claim or kok in order to actually determine which vanilla is actually lying. lkk would be second in line for my lynch, after kok (in the case that kok is actually vanilla).

In terms of vanilla claims, here is how I rank scummiest (scummiest on top, village on the bottom):
kingofkongs (80% sure he's scum, 20% sure he may be telling the truth)
loudkirbyking
Rediamond
jumpluff
Crux (confirmed village)

Lastly, my thoughts on jumpluff are as follows: I think it would be logical for everyone to believe jumpluff as village. I know that my surety should not be that strong, but everything thus far that I have felt from jumpluff's posts is that she's on a mission to help the village. I mentioned earlier in one of my posts that vanilla shouldn't be afraid to give it all they got in discussion because they have nothing to lose as vanilla and as such should contribute to the conversation as much as possible. jumpluff has very well met that standard in my opinion. The only problem I would see is her being killed off, as that would detriment daily discussion by a huge amount.

These are my thoughts, and as I promised, I post them with no shame.

[pokemonrocks777]

i'm going 2 @@unvote for a second@@

[zorbees]

The following paragraph is under my previous assumption that I was not limited to once per game.

I probably would have killed every night, seeing how there were a ton of people who were barely contributing. TBH I'm not really sure how a vigilante is supposed to be played in a NOC game. I do remember though, that I wanted to kill n1 to have it revealed that a vigilante did exist, but the mafia's kill was blocked, which fucked that up. (I suppose a double-target was possible too, with me having higher priority). Like I said, I was trying to kill Brammi n2 but the hosts alerted me it was one time only. I have no one but myself to blame for this mistake but we can't dwell on it too much.

can someone post the claims list again so lazy zorbees doesn't have to look for it again?

[jumpluff*]

billymills - list of items, knows when appear/disappear/passed (Shopkeep)
jumpluff - vanilla (Lord)
kingofkongs - vanilla (Priest)
zorbees - one time vig used on wick (Executioner)
Engineer Pikachu - backup bodyguard (every other night) and something else (Bard)
Acklow - unstoppable safeguard if he holds the Magic Wand (Sorcerer)
loudkirbyking - vanilla (Viscount)
Paperblade - makes milk (Farmhand)
Dummy007 - backup alliance check every other night (Prison Guard)
Rediamond - vanilla (Duke)
Crux - vanilla, knows the King and Princess are in the game (Queen)
pokemonrocks777 - mayor (Prince)
DetroitLolcat - announcer, holding the Bell (???)
Ace Emerald - martyr (Serf)

[zorbees]

Thanks pluff.

Random things I think (ask for clarification if you wish):

I'd say EP should BG Paperblade tonight (if he can, idr which nights he can and which he can't), although billymills would be a fine target too. Acklow should also probably target one of these two.
I think we should not lynch Ace or pr777 today, as their claims are provable.
I'm theorizing that every non-vanilla claim (except maybe dummy and DLC) is village.
I'm thinking lkk is the most likely vanilla claim to be mafia, based both on play and role-name claim.
I'd think it'd be in our best interests to know what the bell does.