LC Community Create A Team (Step 2-4)

[comatthew6]

Originally Posted by Fat Ray Jay

Comatt, while that is a good suggestion, we need to consider the fact that we would then have a team that greatly struggles against Scraggy, especially since our variant (Choice Scarf Gligar) is incapable of OHKOing Scraggy. I think this is one of the big reasons why Mienfoo is pretty much the best option for the next slot.

and it's really cute

Oh I forgot we were only doing one slot at a time because I actually want BOTH Mienfoo and Magnemite on the team lol

[blarajan]

Originally Posted by Fat Trakyan

I also disagree with what you said about duskull, its bulkier than missy and frillish, 18 defenses arent low, the set though was pretty bad, maybe something like shadow sneak/sub/pain split/wow would be better with shadow sneak assisting with priority, WoW helping totodile set up etc.

Use Misdreavus, honestly.

[Ray Jay]

Honestly the opinions here are pretty polarized, almost in complete favor of Mienfoo. Can we move onto the next teammate?

[spuds4ever]

Once again, the team thus far:
[

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QUOTE=Raseri;4096812] @ Life Orb

Totodile @ Life Orb
Torrent | Adamant
36 HP / 236 Atk / 4 Def / 52 SpD / 172 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Punch
- Crunch

I believe this set is effective in the current meta, none of the big 3 can safely switch in. Offensive Gligar is OHKO'd by +2 Aqua Jet, while defensive is beaten by Ice Punch without being able to deal enough damage back. Even defensive Misdreavus is likely to be KO'd by a +2 Crunch, with Stealth Rock guaranteeing it. Murkrow has a chance of being KO'd by a +2 Aqua Jet, while CM Featherdance will take a lot of damage from Ice Punch before you switch out. This set will need a lot of support, but near the end of the game it rips through both offensive and defensive teams. Also SE Priority for Drillbur is always nice[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Fat blarajan

Hi my name is Mienfoo.



Mienfoo (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 156 Atk / 196 Def / 36 SDef / 76 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Drain Punch
- Payback

So what does this nig do for us? Well Totodile gets shat on by Scraggy, and does nothing to stop it from setting up. Mienfoo fixes that. With the given defensive investment, it is never OHKOed by a +1 Adamant Scraggy HJK. Since intelligent (ie: not prem) people don't run that shit, this is more a safety measure. Plus, its incredible bulk gives it outs against a lot of shit that checks Totodile, like Chinchou.

Now, other than its bulk, why are we using Mienfoo? I figured--might as well help Totodile set up, right? So here comes SubPassing. Mienfoo makes a fanfuckingtastic SubPasser due to its ability to force switches and Regenerator. Hi I'll come in on Scraggy, scare you, get up a Substitute, and then get the fuck out of there. The big reason, though, is Regenerator. For most Pokemon, if you set up a Substitute, it's crucial it remains standing. With Mienfoo, it sets it up to buffer itself from the next switch, and let you react accordingly. And even if the Substitute dies as you Baton Pass...well it's just like U-Turn, except you don't risk the hit (so it's kind of better???). Then Regenerator happens and you're at full health anyways and dgaf you wasted that Substitute. Mienfoo's relatively low speed means you will not get fucked up switching out badly, etc. The given spread will never be 2HKOed by Misdreavus at full health, but easily 2HKOes with Payback. This is important as our Totodile gets fucked by Misdreavus.

Thanks to RayJay for helping with the spread.

edit: Let's also make sure that we have playtested the sets we are recommending. We're trying to make a team that is competitively viable.

Originally Posted by Fat little gk

One issue with where we are at in the team building process is that we have a chosen Pokemon, but no direction outside of that. We do have a solid idea that Totodile is going to be a late game sweeper and the team will play a bit offensively because of that. However, we don't have much more than that. When choosing between a more defensive style or something closer to hyper offense, I'm lead to lean towards a more offensive direction. If anything, we probably need to iron this out in the next Pokemon or two we choose for the core.

Alright, since Totodile is going to be used primarily in late-game situations, why not pick something that can function early and mid game. It'd also be nice if our Pokemon could have enough power to hurt Toto's checks a bit, while keeping enough speed to outrun them. With that in mind, I'm suggesting Gligar with a Choice Scarf.


Gligar (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Aerial Ace
- Night Slash
- U-Turn


236 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs 0 HP/52 Def Eviolite Chinchou: 100% - 125%
236 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs 36 HP/0 Def Eviolite Staryu: 50% - 65%
236 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs 228 HP/220 Def Eviolite Lileep: 26.92% - 38.46%
236 Atk Gligar Aerial Ace vs 0 HP/196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 57.14% - 71.43%
236 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs 0 HP/196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 42.86% - 57.14%
236 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs 84 HP/188 Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 31.82% - 40.91%

Now, this Gligar won't be blowing holes in much, but It can at least 2HKO most of Toto's important checks too, which is nifty! This power also ais enough for us to have some fun with predicted switches and scout a bit before Totodile is ready to set up on anything. This also doesn't do much for other bulky Pokemon, like Scraggy, but that might lead us to something like Mienfoo!

EDIT:


I like this set, but it leaves us with a big Croagunk issue! My Gligar would make a good teammate for that, but it allows Koffing to come in and do whatever it wants. I'm not saying that we can't use both or even all three together, but it would force us to address these issues, without a doubt.

Right, seeing as we have some great physical bulk already, I'm going to suggest something that can take special hits, deal them out decently, and support the team:



Lickitung @eviolite
EVs: 116 HP, 116 sp. atk, 236 sp. def
Trait: Own tempo
Calm (+sp. def, -atk)
-Wish
-Heal Bell
-Fire blast
-Shadow ball

Lickitung makes a fantastic special tank, being able to easily survive a 2hko from misdreavus' HP fighting and retaliating with shadow ball. Wish gives lickitung solid recovery and supports the team, with mienfoo and gligar easily able to switch in on incoming fighting attacks, while heal bell rids the team of status, something it currently hates. Fire blast works nicely alongside shadow ball, frying any steels that think lickitung=free rocks.

[Charmander]

Alright we're voting now.

Ferroseed, Mienfoo, Magnemite, and Lickitung are your choices.

As always, explain it.

I'm abstaining from voting this round.

[Ray Jay]

Mienfoo. We can't afford to add another slot that loses to Scraggy this early. Maybe later. But not until we have a Scraggy counter. K love ya!

[prem]

Originally Posted by Fat Ray Jay

Mienfoo. We can't afford to add another slot that loses to Scraggy this early. Maybe later. But not until we have a Scraggy counter. K love ya!

[comatthew6]

Originally Posted by Fat Ray Jay

Mienfoo. We can't afford to add another slot that loses to Scraggy this early. Maybe later. But not until we have a Scraggy counter. K love ya!

Agreed.

But Magnemite for next slot!!!

[Aerrow]

Mienfoo

[Straw Hat]

Originally Posted by Fat Ray Jay

Mienfoo. We can't afford to add another slot that loses to Scraggy this early. Maybe later. But not until we have a Scraggy counter. K love ya!

[Chieliee]

Mienfoo

yes i am actually joining this project (finally)

[Charmander]

so mienfoo it is

Originally Posted by Fat blarajan

Hi my name is Mienfoo.



Mienfoo (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 156 Atk / 196 Def / 36 SDef / 76 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Drain Punch
- Payback

So what does this nig do for us? Well Totodile gets shat on by Scraggy, and does nothing to stop it from setting up. Mienfoo fixes that. With the given defensive investment, it is never OHKOed by a +1 Adamant Scraggy HJK. Since intelligent (ie: not prem) people don't run that shit, this is more a safety measure. Plus, its incredible bulk gives it outs against a lot of shit that checks Totodile, like Chinchou.

Now, other than its bulk, why are we using Mienfoo? I figured--might as well help Totodile set up, right? So here comes SubPassing. Mienfoo makes a fanfuckingtastic SubPasser due to its ability to force switches and Regenerator. Hi I'll come in on Scraggy, scare you, get up a Substitute, and then get the fuck out of there. The big reason, though, is Regenerator. For most Pokemon, if you set up a Substitute, it's crucial it remains standing. With Mienfoo, it sets it up to buffer itself from the next switch, and let you react accordingly. And even if the Substitute dies as you Baton Pass...well it's just like U-Turn, except you don't risk the hit (so it's kind of better???). Then Regenerator happens and you're at full health anyways and dgaf you wasted that Substitute. Mienfoo's relatively low speed means you will not get fucked up switching out badly, etc. The given spread will never be 2HKOed by Misdreavus at full health, but easily 2HKOes with Payback. This is important as our Totodile gets fucked by Misdreavus.

Thanks to RayJay for helping with the spread.

edit: Let's also make sure that we have playtested the sets we are recommending. We're trying to make a team that is competitively viable.

Now, we'll move on to the fourth Pokemon.

The fourth slot is usually where you want to cover any big weaknesses before moving on, so maybe a team player would work well here (especially since we have 3 offensive Pokemon right now).

[Ray Jay]

Totodile absolutely needs a defensive partner that can set up Stealth Rock before we do anything else. Furthermore, we have a growing weakness to Chinchou and Staryu, especially since Totodile can't really do anything to them even after setting up. We need something that can REPEATEDLY sponge hits and Recover off the damage, ie, not Bronzor since we really can't afford to lack reliable recovery in this slot. For this reason, I'm looking at Lileep.


[SET]
name: Sandless Special Sponge
move 1: Recover
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Stealth Rock
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Eviolite
ability: Storm Drain
nature: Calm
evs: 228 HP / 140 Def / 140 SpD

This set really patches up any weaknesses we mentioned so far. First and foremost, it gives us Stealth Rock, which Totodile needs to attain certain KOs. Next, it's Totodile's little defensive buddy since it adequately handles bulky Water-types and Ferroseed. Also, if we decide to use Aerial Ace over Stone Edge on Gligar, we will have nothing that can switch into Snover, and this set remedies that as well. It does add a Pokemon that Scraggy can set up on, but now that we have Mienfoo, this is inconsequential. It also has reliable recovery, making it a better special / mixed sponge in this instance than Bronzor.

[comatthew6]

Rayjay's stuff

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Originally Posted by Fat Ray Jay

Totodile absolutely needs a defensive partner that can set up Stealth Rock before we do anything else. Furthermore, we have a growing weakness to Chinchou and Staryu, especially since Totodile can't really do anything to them even after setting up. We need something that can REPEATEDLY sponge hits and Recover off the damage, ie, not Bronzor since we really can't afford to lack reliable recovery in this slot. For this reason, I'm looking at Lileep.


[SET]
name: Sandless Special Sponge
move 1: Recover
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Stealth Rock
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Eviolite
ability: Storm Drain
nature: Calm
evs: 228 HP / 140 Def / 140 SpD

This set really patches up any weaknesses we mentioned so far. First and foremost, it gives us Stealth Rock, which Totodile needs to attain certain KOs. Next, it's Totodile's little defensive buddy since it adequately handles bulky Water-types and Ferroseed. Also, if we decide to use Aerial Ace over Stone Edge on Gligar, we will have nothing that can switch into Snover, and this set remedies that as well. It does add a Pokemon that Scraggy can set up on, but now that we have Mienfoo, this is inconsequential. It also has reliable recovery, making it a better special / mixed sponge in this instance than Bronzor.

How much damage will Blizzard do to this Lileep? If it's a 2HKO then this can't switch in as well as what I will be proposing:

Ferroseed (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 148 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Leech Seed / Bullet Seed
- Protect / Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock

Though this set can't take out Staryu and Chinchou as reliably as Lileep can, it is a sturdier check to Snover as it will not be taking super effective damage from Blizzard. Gyro Ball is the move that will allow Ferroseed to net itself a quick OHKO on Snover, the physical analog to Lileep's Hidden Power. However, if you see Staryu and Chinchou as threats and you need to KO them immediately, then using Bullet Seed (or Seed Bomb or w/e) over Leech Seed to deal this damage would be optimal. Like Lileep, Stealth Rock is also a must, and protect + Leech Seed is a great combination for stalling. However, if you feel the need that two attacks and Leech Seed are necessary; that will work as well. This defensive spread also nets itself a strong 19 Special Defense to work with, as well as having resistances or neutrality to Water, Electric, and Ice.

[spuds4ever]

Oh, I see, heh, I thought we'd already unoffically elected mienfoo. Anyway, lickitung is my suggestion here for reasons stated.

Right, seeing as we have some great physical bulk already, I'm going to suggest something that can take special hits, deal them out decently, and support the team:



Lickitung @eviolite
EVs: 116 HP, 116 sp. atk, 236 sp. def
Trait: Own tempo
Calm (+sp. def, -atk)
-Wish
-Protect
-Fire blast
-Shadow ball

Lickitung makes a fantastic special tank, being able to easily survive a 2hko from misdreavus' HP fighting and retaliating with shadow ball. Wish gives lickitung solid recovery and supports the team, with mienfoo and gligar easily able to switch in on incoming fighting attacks, while (edit) protect guarentees recovery and let's him stall out things that would usually 3hko him, such as snover, something the team currently hates. Fire blast works nicely alongside shadow ball, frying any steels that think lickitung=free rocks.

[Ray Jay]

The whole point of Al's Lileep set (which I posted) is that it can take 2 Blizzards and thus can Recover stall. So yeah do your homework next time! Also Ferroseed is OHKOed by HP Fire, j/s.

[spuds4ever]

Hmm... I'm agreeing with snover being a threat, I think I'll replace heal bell with protect on lickitung as status isn't that common and we'll probably have a steel type on the team to take the odd toxic. Protect will mean that lickitung too can stall out snover.

[Jansports]

The team already has A choice holder, while I don't think it's always the best to have too many there are some advantages to keeping the speed up on other pokemon when Totodile and Mienfoo are both on the sluggish side


Darumaka @ Choice Scarf. Hustle!
Jolly; 116hp / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- U-turn

Darumaka, with hustle Hit's about as hard as anything, reaching an effective 27 atk stat with no boosts with a Scarf. The number of OHKOs Darumaka can claim is huge, simply from firing off STABed Flare blitz, or any Super Effective SuperPower. With Rocks up Daru OHKOs all but three of the top 10 is usage from Feb and puts a very serious dent in the others

(196Atk Hustle lvl 5 Darumaka (Neutral) Superpower vs 0HP/36Def Eviolite lvl 5 Staryu (Neutral): 72% - 88% (13 - 16 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

196Atk Hustle lvl 5 Darumaka (Neutral) Flare Blitz vs 0HP/196Def Eviolite lvl 5 Mienfoo (Neutral): 76% - 100% (16 - 21 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

Those two being to notable Not OHKOs from the top 10. (The last being Shellder who because of Shellsmash is a different beast altogether in how it's dealt with. namely priority)
Even the slightest bit of prior damage could easily result in Daru Droping mons left and right. Acting as a revenge killer / scouter with U-turn. Even being a potentially lethal recipient of a Sub from the teams Mienfoo.

Daru also outspeeds what might be the mots common scarfer in LC right now, and does an authoritative 300% damage to it. Of course I mean Snover, how can actually never get anywhere near Daru for fear of combusting. Snover even has a chance (196Atk Hustle lvl 5 Darumaka (Neutral) U-turn vs 0HP/0Def Eviolite Soundproof lvl 5 Snover (Neutral): 85% - 104% (18 - 22 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 25% chance to OHKO.) to be OHKO'd if it switches in to a predicted U-turn.

While Totodile is tailored to be a late cleaner/sweeper Darumaka is an early-mid demolisher, that even bulky water types not named slowpoke have to fear switching in to. Darumaka isn't without problems, notably his lack of recovery combined with recoil damage and a strong desire to switch in more than once make residual damage a threat to him and his late game pressence is near invisible unless he's held back a good deal but the number of kills he can rack up or Mons he can weaken to a state where even unboosted Priority from Toto can clean up is immense.

[Trakyan]

Umm.... kinda off the topic but snover isnt neutral to u turn as your post states^ and how many snover use sound proof, isnt snow warning the only reason to use snover?

And as was mentioned we do need a hazard user so here is my suggestion.

Anorith @ Oran Berry
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spd / 36 Def
Jolly Nature
-Rapid Spin/X-Scissor
-Stealth Rock
-Rock Blast
-Brick Break/Aerial Ace/Swords Dance/Hone Claws/Rock Polish

While not being the perfect rapid spinner he has rapid spin+SR as well as posing a noticeable threat, good speed and good attack with good STAB and the ability to smash through subkrow with its super effective STAB multi hit, SR and rapid spin are to provide good support to the team while rock blast is that STAB that helps hit subkrow while the last slot is up for either a coverage move or some sort of boosting move which anorith has alot of. EVs and nature are to give it good speed and attack so it can pose a threat hitting 19 attack with neutral nature and 18 speed with the given nature and EVs.

[Jansports]

Originally Posted by Fat Trakyan

Umm.... kinda off the topic but snover isnt neutral to u turn as your post states^ and how many snover use sound proof, isnt snow warning the only reason to use snover?

The neutral denotes Snover's Nature, as in it does not have a positive or negative defense stat, and the calc I used defaulted to soundproof as it's the only ability snover can posses that would alter a defensive calculation.

[comatthew6]

Originally Posted by Fat Ray Jay

The whole point of Al's Lileep set (which I posted) is that it can take 2 Blizzards and thus can Recover stall. So yeah do your homework next time! Also Ferroseed is OHKOed by HP Fire, j/s.

Lol I asked if it was a 2HKO, and because of this, my point is invalid (you don't have to be condescending). Lileep is good then.

[Charmander]

edit: don't vote until the council votes on bans because we might need to restart the ccat if gligar gets banned!

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voting. you guys know the drill

your choice are:

Lickitung
Lileep
Ferroseed

[Jansports]

Lileep

[blarajan]

Hey guys thanks a ton for all of the hard work we put into the CCAT. However, with the banning of Gligar, we're going to have to start the entire thing over. !!!

[Princess of Johto]

Why do we have to completely restart? Can't we just re start from Step 2?