ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread (New Proposal Handling System in OP) - Page 21

Athenodoros · Nov 15th, 2012, 4:15:14 AM

^Agree completely. I was just thinking this yesterday. For one thing, the flavour makes no sense.

Objection · Nov 15th, 2012, 4:41:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Its_A_Random

Speaking of nerfing evasive moves used in combos, I would like to propose this hot-fix to Agility (Evade):
Basically, the current description implies that something like Agility (Evade) + Take Down gets to damage & evade the opponent's single target attack simultaneously. This hot-fix stops this. Also, it makes zero-sense flavour-wise with the evasive properties. Anyone in agreement?

<-- This guy is in agreement. I'd apply the same thing to evasive Teleport too, although I'm not sure what evasive Teleport would combine with anyway.

TIO · Nov 15th, 2012, 6:41:49 PM

Agreed.
Also, Teleport could combine with punches or something, just teleport behind the target, punch it, teleport back.

C$FP · Nov 15th, 2012, 8:51:55 PM

I think Teleport should only be able to combine with other evasive moves, since combining it with an attack would really just be using the two moves in succession rather than together as one move. The only thing that could be done simultaneously and together with Teleport is something evasive, but even such a combination is questionable.

Otherwise, I agree with the sentiments above.

Regarding the items discussion, I think that all Pokemon that evolve when traded in whatever manner should be allowed to use the Link Cable to keep in line with the principal that absolutely any Pokemon that can evolve upon level up can use Rare Candy. Finally, I think new items for the mons that evolve on level up once they know a particular move is a good idea, but I really have no idea what effects these items should have.

EDIT: oh I also agree about the issues concerning when the energy is spent for attacking evasive moves (Dig, etc.) and charge-up moves (Sky Attack, etc.), and that the user should spend have the energy at each stage.

Its_A_Random · Nov 18th, 2012, 6:24:36 PM

After a week or two of bickering & complaining, the ASB Council Constitution is now in the OP of this thread.

That is all.

Complications · Nov 18th, 2012, 6:35:26 PM

IAR, regaurding the proposals section of Constitution, what of the proposals made jus before this? (Regaurding Link Cable for all Pokemon who evolve via trade, Dodge combos, etc?)

Its_A_Random · Nov 18th, 2012, 7:46:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Complications

IAR, regaurding the proposals section of Constitution, what of the proposals made jus before this? (Regaurding Link Cable for all Pokemon who evolve via trade, Dodge combos, etc?)

Sorry, I have no intentions to break Kingdra; It can have its 3/3/3/3 stats for all I care. Besides, it has Dragon Scale. Also, you already know what my position on Dodge Combos are.

Complications · Nov 18th, 2012, 8:22:10 PM

Well have to discuss this on IRC- anyways, Dragon Scale definitely is better for Kingdra than Link Cable...

Pwnemon · Nov 18th, 2012, 9:30:25 PM

ok so rules for ref compensation in case of DQ currently suck DICK. I've never once heard a case of a ref getting overcompensated or even fairly compensated for his time when a match ends in a dq and it's to no fault of his own!

there are two proposed ideas i've heard - the first is to take the number of KOes on one side, and claim UC based on the largest possible format that would have finished normally. For example, in a 4v4 doubles where 3 mons fainted on one side and 0 on the other, the ref would claim 7 UC (the payout of a 3v3). In a 6v6 singles where four mons fainted on one side and two on the other, the ref would claim the 9 uc of a 4v4 and the 6 additional UC of a KO bonus. While this method is simple, it runs into a problem when there's a switch = ok match.

That's where the second proposal comes in. This isn't based on how many mons were KOed, but how many participated in the match on the more participative side. Take the number of mons one side sent out, subtract the match format/2 rounded up, and claim for that size battle. For example, in a 5v5 triples where one side sent out all five mons, the ref would claim the UC for a 3v3 triples (5-[3/2^]=5-2=3). there could be minor concerns of refs being overcompensated for battles that end in DQ, but overall i believe it is much fairer.

obviously, these aren't the only two possible solutions to the problem, so fire away with your ideas

C$FP · Nov 18th, 2012, 10:53:51 PM

ok well can people please express their thoughts specifically on what Illuminate should actually do? I think giving the user's team +1 Acc is good because it does not cause hax, and is a very easy solution. Other than that, the council can start discussing soon Dodge combos and I think the spending of Energy when using Dig and such (since that's a simple issue); as far as items go, I don't think there has been much agreement specifically on what should happen. I think once there is more (specific) feedback on Illuminate and/or the items, the council will start discussing the raised issues and vote on them all.

LouisCyphre · Nov 18th, 2012, 11:16:33 PM

+1 Acc is still very powerful on Starmie and Mollux; that's 91% Thunder and 100% Hydro Pumps. If people are okay with that, though...

Illuminate

Type: Can be Activated

When this Pokemon initially goes out into the battlefield, it generates an intense light. This light eases the accuracy of moves on command.

While this Pokemon is in play, the chance to capture wild, non-boss Pokemon increases by x1.1

Command: (Ability: Illuminate)

The user luminescences, lighting the battlefield. The accuracy of all Pokemon, both friend and foe, increases by +1 stage. This command may be issued upon entering play, without consuming an action.

Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 10 | Attack Type: Other| Effect Chance: -- | Typing: -- | Priority: 0 | CT: None

Pokemon with this ability: Staryu, Starmie, Chinchou, Lanturn, Volbeat, Watchog, Mollux.

Call this a starting point.

EDIT: The capture rate bit is to emulate the in-game encounter rate increase. Can we even do anything like that in ASB?

EDITEDIT:

20:20 imanalt|phone trilluminate tlr run LGI
20:20 *** RoyalKevin quit (Connection reset by peer)
20:21 imanalt|phone mollux/starmie/lanturn might work in some tlr
20:21 imanalt|phone idk which though

yeah the capture rate thing shouldn't stack with itself

Gerard · Nov 18th, 2012, 11:39:48 PM

So... you spend 10 energy for a worst version of No Guard?

Tbh I don't think that Illuminate is broken, but a proposed change is to make it into a Victory Star clone (+Capture thing cause that seems really cool)

**Deck Knight** · Nov 18th, 2012, 11:53:05 PM

As far as Dodge Combos people keep forgetting that combinations are not some kind of free action. Yes, you could use Dodge + Bounce. But it'd cost you not less that 21 Energy (over 1/5th your supply), you'd evade one attack, and be completely vulnerable for the next action, all for a 10-odd BAP Flying attack with 30% paralysis and a single action of relative invulnerability (for anything that doesn't have Gust/Hurricane/Sky Uppercut/Smack Down/Thunder/Twister or 100 Acc moves).

Don't lose your sense of balance by thinking only "this makes a powerful last-ditch attack!" It probably does, the thing is, especially in the case of these Dodge Combos, you have to outplay your opponent long enough to even get them into KO Range for that to work, and they can still trump you with Protect/Endure etc. or even a slower evasive move because even if the Evasive action is +4 priority, the hit isn't.

LouisCyphre · Nov 19th, 2012, 12:12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Gerard

So... you spend 10 energy for a worst version of No Guard?

Tbh I don't think that Illuminate is broken, but a proposed change is to make it into a Victory Star clone (+Capture thing cause that seems really cool)

A Victory Star outclasser, no less. Unless we make Victory Star stronger somehow.

Thoughts, anyone?

**Elevator Music** · Nov 19th, 2012, 12:20:38 AM

I really like that idea. It's a simple fix that isn't ridiculous. I don't care either way about the capture thing (if we do that we might want to do that for all abilities that increase encounter rate, and it'd probably be better if they don't stack, but idk), whatever everyone else wants for that will be fine by me I guess.

As far as Victory Star itself being "outclassed" that way, eh. Victini is good enough (especially with the new moves its getting), but it does seem kinda silly.

Imanalt · Nov 19th, 2012, 9:48:39 AM

Victini doesn't need to worry about its ability being outclassed, it can just demolish things anyways...

Engineer Pikachu · Nov 19th, 2012, 11:44:58 AM

If we're really worried about Victory Star being outclassed why don't we make that +1 Acc as well -_- It doesn't really make a difference to the powerful moves (i.e. V-Create, Fusion XXX, Overheat, and the 15 BAP Sluggish moves) giving a nifty bonus to Focus Blast and Thunder. There's also Inferno but 67% Acc is still really shaky.

That being said I like Lou's proposal, although the wording is kind of awkward but that's just my being nitpicky. The concept itself is really great.

King Serperior · Nov 19th, 2012, 12:23:13 PM

I would like to bring up the ability: Illuminate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DAT

Illuminate:

Type: Can be Activated

When this Pokemon initially goes out into the battlefield, it generates an intense light that blinds all opponents, reducing their Accuracy stage by one (1) at the cost of 5 EN. The accuracy drop will last six (6) actions after the Pokemon is released.

Command: (Ability: Illuminate)

Pokemon with this ability: Staryu, Starmie, Chinchou, Lanturn, Volbeat, Watchog, Mollux.

The accuracy lowering has been an issue to many people, according to what I have observed. I would like to propose a new version of this ability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat New Illuminate

Type: Can be Activated

When this Pokemon initially goes out into the battlefield, it generates a very bright flash of light that startles all opponents on the battlefield, reducing their Sp.Attack stage by one (1). The Sp.Attack drop is maintained at the end of each round. If an opponent switches in a new Pokemon, Illuinate can be activated again as an Action, and will affect all opponents.

My reasoning for this comes from my observation of the Psychic Type. They can lose concentration fairly easily if there is a bright enough light or loud enough noise. As many Special Moves require concentration to maintain them, the flash of light can and will stun them. Lets look at Flash itself for a moment. There is a certain part that makes me look at Illuminate and its potential ability to make a mon lose concentration:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DAT Flash

The Pokémon emits a bright light, momentarily blinding anything that looks at it.

Many of you may agree, and many others may not. I still believe that Illuminate becoming a specially based Intimidate is required.

Objection · Nov 19th, 2012, 12:40:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat LouisCyphre

+1 Acc is still very powerful on Starmie and Mollux; that's 91% Thunder and 100% Hydro Pumps. If people are okay with that, though...

Illuminate

Type: Can be Activated

When this Pokemon initially goes out into the battlefield, it generates an intense light. This light eases the accuracy of moves on command.

While this Pokemon is in play, the chance to capture wild, non-boss Pokemon increases by x1.1

Command: (Ability: Illuminate)

The user luminescences, lighting the battlefield. The accuracy of all Pokemon, both friend and foe, increases by +1 stage. This command may be issued upon entering play, without consuming an action.

Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 10 | Attack Type: Other| Effect Chance: -- | Typing: -- | Priority: 0 | CT: None

Pokemon with this ability: Staryu, Starmie, Chinchou, Lanturn, Volbeat, Watchog, Mollux.

Call this a starting point.

I like the idea behind this, although I feel that +1 accuracy might be a bit much. Perhaps it could be a flat 10% increase in accuracy for all moves as long as the Illuminate pokemon is in play (so a Timid Starmie still gets 100% accurate Thunders), and this bonus does not stack with other Illuminate pokemon in play. In which case, Illuminate would work better as a Can be Disabled ability than a Can be Activated ability since flavour-wise I imagine an effect like that being more akin to a lantern being lit or a light being switched on than a sudden flash of blinding light.

Complications · Nov 19th, 2012, 12:43:12 PM

On Pwnemon's argument for ref compensation during a DQ, I have a suggestion:

For singles battles, refs receive a compensation of .5 UC per round, rounded up. In cases where you only ref, say, one round, you get 1 UC, but if you were to red 26 (near the size of a 6vs), you'd get 13.

For doubles battles, you would get 1 UC per round, seein how they are more difficult to ref.

For triples battles, you would get either 1 or 1.5 UC per round, rounded up. Personally I lean more towards 1 UC per round seeing as the number of actions in a round of triples is the same as that of doubles.

Of course, all DQ compensation with this formula would be capped at the amount of UC obtained if the match had been completed properly.

**Deck Knight** · Nov 22nd, 2012, 6:40:55 AM

So I've been working on this for several days, and think I finally have it nailed down. This will be long:

EDIT: Have been getting feedback on IRC

Proposal For Signature Moves:

I've been hesitant to support signature moves initially because the 5th Generation has so many different attacks that can be used or combined that there was little reason for me to support them. The signature moves systems I had been used to had very powerful signature moves that could only be used once every several actions, and had a nearly unlimited number of effects. They were essentially as customizable as arenas.

The goal of the signature move system I am about to propose is to make signature moves fully compatible with the combinations system, and thus reserved enough in power to be used once every action. As such, the following rules are proposed:

1. Signature moves can be learned by Pokemon that have filled out their Dream Counters (they do not need to have activated their ability.) Pokemon currently without Dream Counters will now have them, and can claim them by linking to previous battles they have been in.

2. Signature Moves must match the same Base Power, Energy, Effect Chance, and any negative effects of an existing move.
a. For all Pokemon except Legendaries caught through TLR or winning a Tournament, any cloned move must have at least three (3) distinct non-CAP Pokemon families (defined by the lowest evolution e.g. Wurmple/Oddish) that learn the base move.
b. The Pokemon may only use a signature move of one of their types, the applicable types of a previous evolution (e.g. Surskit -> Masquerain), any type enabled based on their STAB (listing will be below), or Normal type.
c. While the effect chance must be the same, based on the Pokemon's type they will change the effect (listing will be below).
d. Major Status changes can only be inflicted by their base types (Burn: Fire, Freeze; Ice, Poison/Toxic: Poison, Paralysis: Electric, Sleep: Grass). Cloned Moves cannot inflict Major Status except where allowed by STAB. Temporary Effects (confusion, flinch) are maintained when cloned.
e. If a move has ONLY an effect, like stat-ups/downs, direct Major Status (except where it would change due to STAB as noted above), or Direct Recovery, it cannot be cloned - since changing the type will not change the battle effect of the move.
f. A Signature Move cannot be an exact clone of an existing move, even if the Pokemon does not learn that move (e.g. Camerupt cannot have an exact clone of Flare Blitz, however it can have a Fire version of Body Slam, Wild Charge, or Head Smash).
g. If a Normal or Fighting Move with a Combination Type (CT) of Passive or Deferring is used as a base move by another type, the Signature Move’s CT will be changed to Elemental.

List of Moves that Cannot Ever be Base Moves (will overlap with rules above):

DO NOT USE THESE

3. Signature moves will be eligible for the same ability bonuses as the base move.
a. Cloned Punch Moves will be eligible for Iron Fist
b. Cloned Recoil Moves will be eligible for Reckless, Rock Head, and Magic Guard
c. Cloned Secondary Effect moves will be eligible for Sheer Force and Serene Grace
d. Cloned Multi-Hit moves will be eligible for Skill Link
e. Cloned moves with 6 or less BAP will be eligible for Technician

4. STAB allowances for Signature Moves
1. All Specific Pokemon may use a signature move of any type where they have five (5) or more distinct attacks of that type in their 5th generation learnset.
2. Otherwise STABs are linked to specific kinds of moves for related types as indicated below:

Normal

Bug

Dark

Dragon

Electric

Fighting

Fire

Flying

Ghost

Grass

Ground

Ice

Poison

Psychic

Rock

Steel

Water

Signature Move Form:
Pokemon: <Pokemon learning the signature move>
Base Move: <The base move of the signature>
New Type: <The new type of the signature>
Name: <The name being given to the signature>
Description: <A DAT type description of how the attack is performed>
Data: <Data for the move>

Example:
Pokemon: Camerupt
Base Move: Body Slam
New Type: Fire
Name: Fire Drive
Description: Camerupt charges into the foe full force with its whole body in flames. The heat and pressure of the attack can cause a burn.
Data: Attack Power: 7 + User Weight Class/2.5 (round up) | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 5 + Weight Class/3 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: 30% | Contact: Yes | Typing: Fire | Priority: 0 | CT: Elemental

TIO · Nov 22nd, 2012, 8:12:34 AM

How much do sig moves cost?
Where can we get them?

Complications · Nov 22nd, 2012, 8:14:50 AM

Deck Knight where will these move applications be posted? Also, is there a limit to the number of signature moves attainable? (I assume one?)

Yarnus of Bethany · Nov 22nd, 2012, 8:59:41 AM

I was kind of hoping I could give my snorlax an energy restoring rest, but this is still great. Finally my snorlax can finally be different from other snorlax!

Thank you Deck Knight!

Gerard · Nov 22nd, 2012, 9:17:07 AM

I think there are some moves missing from the Unusable list (ex. Endeavour, who I don't think shoud be allowed to be used as a base move)

Otherwise it's a great idea, though it might be a slap in the face for pokemon with shallow movepools whose attacks mostly revolve around their STABs, looking good though (maybe now we can get the gym to give TMS?)

PS: what does 5th Generation learnset means? I'm thinking all of Level Up, Eggs + 5th Gen TMs & Tutors but I think I would like clarification

Nov 15th, 2012, 4:15:14 AM	#501
Athenodoros Official Smogon Know-It-All Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,705 It was in my sleeve the WHOLE TIME!	^Agree completely. I was just thinking this yesterday. For one thing, the flavour makes no sense. __________________ I mentioned that I wasn't going to be on much because the new house has no interwebz, but it now turns out it could be any time until the 4th of April, which means (weirdly) that I'll mostly be available whenever I'm at university - not so much during the weekends and nights. But I'll see what I can do. EDIT: Fucking Hard Drive broke. IRC doesn't look like it's going to happen for a while.

Nov 15th, 2012, 6:41:49 PM	#503
TIO Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 734	Agreed. Also, Teleport could combine with punches or something, just teleport behind the target, punch it, teleport back. __________________ My CAP ASB stuff is here.

Nov 15th, 2012, 8:51:55 PM	#504
C$FP Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 4,349	I think Teleport should only be able to combine with other evasive moves, since combining it with an attack would really just be using the two moves in succession rather than together as one move. The only thing that could be done simultaneously and together with Teleport is something evasive, but even such a combination is questionable. Otherwise, I agree with the sentiments above. Regarding the items discussion, I think that all Pokemon that evolve when traded in whatever manner should be allowed to use the Link Cable to keep in line with the principal that absolutely any Pokemon that can evolve upon level up can use Rare Candy. Finally, I think new items for the mons that evolve on level up once they know a particular move is a good idea, but I really have no idea what effects these items should have. EDIT: oh I also agree about the issues concerning when the energy is spent for attacking evasive moves (Dig, etc.) and charge-up moves (Sky Attack, etc.), and that the user should spend have the energy at each stage. __________________ My CAP ASB Team [23:35] <Jesseus> <Glacier> im not frunk [23:36] <Glacier> jessues whered the d go [21:25] <Pwnemon> look at kax vs cmfp, iar vs cmfp, pwnemon vs cmfp [21:25] <Pwnemon> none of us had teams that by rights should have lost [21:25] <Pwnemon> but he's cm fucking p

Nov 18th, 2012, 6:24:36 PM	#505
Its_A_Random Points out the obvious Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6,562 A country full of spiders	After a week or two of bickering & complaining, the ASB Council Constitution is now in the OP of this thread. That is all. __________________ [11:42:06] <&@elevator_music> uggh \| [11:42:07] <&@elevator_music> iar \| [11:42:09] <&@elevator_music> because of you \| [11:42:22] <&@elevator_music> a lot of my notes in class are filled with &s

Nov 18th, 2012, 6:35:26 PM	#506
Complications Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,656 The Demonata	IAR, regaurding the proposals section of Constitution, what of the proposals made jus before this? (Regaurding Link Cable for all Pokemon who evolve via trade, Dodge combos, etc?) __________________ "Where is the horse and the rider... Where is the horn that was blowing... They have passed like rain on the mountains... Like wind in the meadow... The days have come down in the West... Behind the hills into shadow..."

Nov 18th, 2012, 8:22:10 PM	#508
Complications Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,656 The Demonata	Well have to discuss this on IRC- anyways, Dragon Scale definitely is better for Kingdra than Link Cable... __________________ "Where is the horse and the rider... Where is the horn that was blowing... They have passed like rain on the mountains... Like wind in the meadow... The days have come down in the West... Behind the hills into shadow..."

Nov 18th, 2012, 9:30:25 PM	#509
Pwnemon Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,000 Maryland	ok so rules for ref compensation in case of DQ currently suck DICK. I've never once heard a case of a ref getting overcompensated or even fairly compensated for his time when a match ends in a dq and it's to no fault of his own! there are two proposed ideas i've heard - the first is to take the number of KOes on one side, and claim UC based on the largest possible format that would have finished normally. For example, in a 4v4 doubles where 3 mons fainted on one side and 0 on the other, the ref would claim 7 UC (the payout of a 3v3). In a 6v6 singles where four mons fainted on one side and two on the other, the ref would claim the 9 uc of a 4v4 and the 6 additional UC of a KO bonus. While this method is simple, it runs into a problem when there's a switch = ok match. That's where the second proposal comes in. This isn't based on how many mons were KOed, but how many participated in the match on the more participative side. Take the number of mons one side sent out, subtract the match format/2 rounded up, and claim for that size battle. For example, in a 5v5 triples where one side sent out all five mons, the ref would claim the UC for a 3v3 triples (5-[3/2^]=5-2=3). there could be minor concerns of refs being overcompensated for battles that end in DQ, but overall i believe it is much fairer. obviously, these aren't the only two possible solutions to the problem, so fire away with your ideas __________________ [11:56pm] Pwnemon: statutory rape and all [11:56pm] bmelts: i have such a huge boner right now [9:28pm] Kadew: pwnemon that signature is like an x marking the spot of treasure, except instead of treasure its a pile of humorous garbage that turtles crapped out

Nov 18th, 2012, 10:53:51 PM	#510
C$FP Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 4,349	ok well can people please express their thoughts specifically on what Illuminate should actually do? I think giving the user's team +1 Acc is good because it does not cause hax, and is a very easy solution. Other than that, the council can start discussing soon Dodge combos and I think the spending of Energy when using Dig and such (since that's a simple issue); as far as items go, I don't think there has been much agreement specifically on what should happen. I think once there is more (specific) feedback on Illuminate and/or the items, the council will start discussing the raised issues and vote on them all. __________________ My CAP ASB Team [23:35] <Jesseus> <Glacier> im not frunk [23:36] <Glacier> jessues whered the d go [21:25] <Pwnemon> look at kax vs cmfp, iar vs cmfp, pwnemon vs cmfp [21:25] <Pwnemon> none of us had teams that by rights should have lost [21:25] <Pwnemon> but he's cm fucking p

Nov 18th, 2012, 11:16:33 PM	#511
LouisCyphre heralds disaster. Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,187 fucking majestic	+1 Acc is still very powerful on Starmie and Mollux; that's 91% Thunder and 100% Hydro Pumps. If people are okay with that, though... Illuminate Type: Can be Activated When this Pokemon initially goes out into the battlefield, it generates an intense light. This light eases the accuracy of moves on command. While this Pokemon is in play, the chance to capture wild, non-boss Pokemon increases by x1.1 Command: (Ability: Illuminate) The user luminescences, lighting the battlefield. The accuracy of all Pokemon, both friend and foe, increases by +1 stage. This command may be issued upon entering play, without consuming an action. Attack Power: -- \| Accuracy: -- \| Energy Cost: 10 \| Attack Type: Other\| Effect Chance: -- \| Typing: -- \| Priority: 0 \| CT: None Pokemon with this ability: Staryu, Starmie, Chinchou, Lanturn, Volbeat, Watchog, Mollux. Call this a starting point. EDIT: The capture rate bit is to emulate the in-game encounter rate increase. Can we even do anything like that in ASB? EDITEDIT: 20:20 imanalt\|phone trilluminate tlr run LGI 20:20 * RoyalKevin quit (Connection reset by peer) 20:21 imanalt\|phone mollux/starmie/lanturn might work in some tlr 20:21 imanalt\|phone idk which though yeah the capture rate thing shouldn't stack with itself __________________ (CAP ASB \| ASB Ref \| Battle Pike \| ASB Labyrinth \| ASB Inquisition) If I am late** for something, remind me that it exists on my wall or in IRC. I'll never remember otherwise. 15:31 <DHR> isnt cocke supposed to go up your nose?

Nov 18th, 2012, 11:39:48 PM	#512
Gerard Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2,999 Mmm... Ice Cream!	So... you spend 10 energy for a worst version of No Guard? Tbh I don't think that Illuminate is broken, but a proposed change is to make it into a Victory Star clone (+Capture thing cause that seems really cool)

Nov 18th, 2012, 11:53:05 PM	#513
Deck Knight Jigen Makkoto Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,843 Massachusetts	As far as Dodge Combos people keep forgetting that combinations are not some kind of free action. Yes, you could use Dodge + Bounce. But it'd cost you not less that 21 Energy (over 1/5th your supply), you'd evade one attack, and be completely vulnerable for the next action, all for a 10-odd BAP Flying attack with 30% paralysis and a single action of relative invulnerability (for anything that doesn't have Gust/Hurricane/Sky Uppercut/Smack Down/Thunder/Twister or 100 Acc moves). Don't lose your sense of balance by thinking only "this makes a powerful last-ditch attack!" It probably does, the thing is, especially in the case of these Dodge Combos, you have to outplay your opponent long enough to even get them into KO Range for that to work, and they can still trump you with Protect/Endure etc. or even a slower evasive move because even if the Evasive action is +4 priority, the hit isn't. __________________ [17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me? [17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner [17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol [17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either [17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages [17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod. [17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal. [17:57] <Birkal> >:\|

Nov 19th, 2012, 12:20:38 AM	#515
Elevator Music there is actually no underscore in my name Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,482	I really like that idea. It's a simple fix that isn't ridiculous. I don't care either way about the capture thing (if we do that we might want to do that for all abilities that increase encounter rate, and it'd probably be better if they don't stack, but idk), whatever everyone else wants for that will be fine by me I guess. As far as Victory Star itself being "outclassed" that way, eh. Victini is good enough (especially with the new moves its getting), but it does seem kinda silly. __________________

Nov 19th, 2012, 9:48:39 AM	#516
Imanalt RHYDON RHYDON RHYDON RHYDON RHYDON RHYDON Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,357 VT, USA	Victini doesn't need to worry about its ability being outclassed, it can just demolish things anyways... __________________ ASB profile zfs: we are the knights who say nidoking http://pastebin.com/FrNB3Vg3 21:15 Cathy GreatSage is a known spammer

Nov 19th, 2012, 11:44:58 AM	#517
Engineer Pikachu take into the air... Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6,140	If we're really worried about Victory Star being outclassed why don't we make that +1 Acc as well -_- It doesn't really make a difference to the powerful moves (i.e. V-Create, Fusion XXX, Overheat, and the 15 BAP Sluggish moves) giving a nifty bonus to Focus Blast and Thunder. There's also Inferno but 67% Acc is still really shaky. That being said I like Lou's proposal, although the wording is kind of awkward but that's just my being nitpicky. The concept itself is really great. __________________ [11:35] <Zarator> My friend always laugh at me for liking young girls [11:35] <Zarator> I am still within reasonableness^^ GP Team - VM for a check!

Nov 19th, 2012, 12:43:12 PM	#520
Complications Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,656 The Demonata	On Pwnemon's argument for ref compensation during a DQ, I have a suggestion: For singles battles, refs receive a compensation of .5 UC per round, rounded up. In cases where you only ref, say, one round, you get 1 UC, but if you were to red 26 (near the size of a 6vs), you'd get 13. For doubles battles, you would get 1 UC per round, seein how they are more difficult to ref. For triples battles, you would get either 1 or 1.5 UC per round, rounded up. Personally I lean more towards 1 UC per round seeing as the number of actions in a round of triples is the same as that of doubles. Of course, all DQ compensation with this formula would be capped at the amount of UC obtained if the match had been completed properly. __________________ "Where is the horse and the rider... Where is the horn that was blowing... They have passed like rain on the mountains... Like wind in the meadow... The days have come down in the West... Behind the hills into shadow..."

Nov 22nd, 2012, 6:40:55 AM	#521
Deck Knight Jigen Makkoto Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,843 Massachusetts	So I've been working on this for several days, and think I finally have it nailed down. This will be long: EDIT: Have been getting feedback on IRC Proposal For Signature Moves: I've been hesitant to support signature moves initially because the 5th Generation has so many different attacks that can be used or combined that there was little reason for me to support them. The signature moves systems I had been used to had very powerful signature moves that could only be used once every several actions, and had a nearly unlimited number of effects. They were essentially as customizable as arenas. The goal of the signature move system I am about to propose is to make signature moves fully compatible with the combinations system, and thus reserved enough in power to be used once every action. As such, the following rules are proposed: 1. Signature moves can be learned by Pokemon that have filled out their Dream Counters (they do not need to have activated their ability.) Pokemon currently without Dream Counters will now have them, and can claim them by linking to previous battles they have been in. 2. Signature Moves must match the same Base Power, Energy, Effect Chance, and any negative effects of an existing move. a. For all Pokemon except Legendaries caught through TLR or winning a Tournament, any cloned move must have at least three (3) distinct non-CAP Pokemon families (defined by the lowest evolution e.g. Wurmple/Oddish) that learn the base move. b. The Pokemon may only use a signature move of one of their types, the applicable types of a previous evolution (e.g. Surskit -> Masquerain), any type enabled based on their STAB (listing will be below), or Normal type. c. While the effect chance must be the same, based on the Pokemon's type they will change the effect (listing will be below). d. Major Status changes can only be inflicted by their base types (Burn: Fire, Freeze; Ice, Poison/Toxic: Poison, Paralysis: Electric, Sleep: Grass). Cloned Moves cannot inflict Major Status except where allowed by STAB. Temporary Effects (confusion, flinch) are maintained when cloned. e. If a move has ONLY an effect, like stat-ups/downs, direct Major Status (except where it would change due to STAB as noted above), or Direct Recovery, it cannot be cloned - since changing the type will not change the battle effect of the move. f. A Signature Move cannot be an exact clone of an existing move, even if the Pokemon does not learn that move (e.g. Camerupt cannot have an exact clone of Flare Blitz, however it can have a Fire version of Body Slam, Wild Charge, or Head Smash). g. If a Normal or Fighting Move with a Combination Type (CT) of Passive or Deferring is used as a base move by another type, the Signature Move’s CT will be changed to Elemental. List of Moves that Cannot Ever be Base Moves (will overlap with rules above): DO NOT USE THESE Acid Acid Spray Assist Bide Bounce Bulldoze Copycat Counter Curse Dig Dive Dynamicpunch Earthquake Encore Endeavor Explosion Fake Out Feint Final Gambit Fissure Fly Focus Punch Freeze Shock Gastro Acid Gravity Grudge Guillotine Heal Block Heal Pulse Hi Jump Kick Hail Horn Drill Ice Burn Inferno Imprison Leech Seed Light Screen Magic Coat Me First Memento Metal Burst Metronome Mimic Mirror Coat Mirror Move Natural Gift Nature Power Pain Split Perish Song Rain Dance Rapid Spin Reflect Relic Song Rest Safeguard Sandstorm Selfdestruct Shadow Force Sheer Cold Sketch Sky Attack Sleep Talk Spikes Spore Stealth Rock Stored Power Sunny Day Taunt Techno Blast Torment Toxic Spikes U-turn V-Create Volt Switch Water Gun Weather Ball Worry Seed Zap Cannon 3. Signature moves will be eligible for the same ability bonuses as the base move. a. Cloned Punch Moves will be eligible for Iron Fist b. Cloned Recoil Moves will be eligible for Reckless, Rock Head, and Magic Guard c. Cloned Secondary Effect moves will be eligible for Sheer Force and Serene Grace d. Cloned Multi-Hit moves will be eligible for Skill Link e. Cloned moves with 6 or less BAP will be eligible for Technician 4. STAB allowances for Signature Moves 1. All Specific Pokemon may use a signature move of any type where they have five (5) or more distinct attacks of that type in their 5th generation learnset. 2. Otherwise STABs are linked to specific kinds of moves for related types as indicated below: Normal Normal: May use Normal and any signature move type where they learn Moves in 5th Gen of that type equal to the following or greater values: Bug: 3 Dark: 5 Dragon: 3 Electric: 5 Fighting: 5 Fire: 5 Flying: 5 Ghost: 3 Grass: 4 Ground: 3 Ice: 4 Poison: 4 Psychic: 5 Rock: 4 Steel: 3 Water: 3 Bug Bug: May use Bug type signature moves as well as Dark, Flying, or Psychic type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Type Recap: Bug, Dark, Flying, Psychic Dark Dark: May use Dark type signature moves as well as Fighting, Ghost, or Psychic type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Type Recap: Dark, Fighting, Ghost, Psychic Dragon Dragon: My use Dragon type signature moves as well as Fire, Ground, or Water type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Type Recap: Dragon, Fire, Ground, Water Electric Electric: May use Electric type signature moves as well as Dark, Fire, or Psychic type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Alters any Major Status effect to paralysis. Electric types add a 10% paralysis effect to any Electric-type move with no Major Status effect. Type Recap: Electric, Dark, Fire, Psychic Fighting Fighting: May use Fighting type signature moves as well as Dark, Ground, or Rock type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Type Recap: Fighting, Dark, Ground, Rock Fire Fire: May use Fire type signature moves as well as Ground, Poison, or Rock type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Alters any Major Status effect from its original status to burn. Fire types add a 10% burn chance to any Fire-typed signature move with no Major Status effect. Type Recap: Fire, Ground, Poison, Rock Flying Flying: May use Flying type signature moves as well as Dark, Dragon, or Psychic type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Type Recap: Flying, Dark, Dragon, Psychic Ghost Ghost: May use Ghost type signature moves as well as Dark, Electric, or Ice provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Type Recap: Ghost, Dark, Electric, Ice Grass Grass: May use Grass type signature moves as well as Dragon, Poison, or Psychic type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th generation learnset. Alters any Major Status effect from its original status to sleep. Grass types add a 10% sleep chance to any Grass-typed signature move with no Major Status effect. Type Recap: Grass, Dragon, Poison, Psychic Ground Ground: May use Ground type signature moves as well as Bug, Rock or Steel type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Type Recap: Ground, Bug, Rock, Steel Ice Ice: May use Ice type signature moves as well as Dark, Fighting, or Rock provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Alters any Major Status effect from its original status to freeze. Ice types add a 10% freeze chance to any Ice-typed signature move with no Major Status effect. Type Recap: Ice, Dark, Fighting, Rock Poison Poison: May use Poison type signature moves as well as Dark, Fighting, or Fire type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Alters any Major Status effect from its original status to poison or toxic (owner discretion). Poison types add a 10% poison or toxic chance to any Poison-typed signature move with no Major Status effect. Type Recap: Poison, Dark, Fighting, Fire Psychic Psychic: May use Psychic type signature moves as well as Dark, Electric, or Fighting type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Type Recap: Psychic, Dark, Electric, Fighting Rock Rock: May use Rock type signature moves as well as Dragon, Ground, or Steel type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Type Recap: Rock, Dragon, Ground, Steel Steel Steel: May use Steel type signature moves as well as Ground, Psychic, or Rock type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Type Recap: Steel, Ground, Psychic, Rock Water Water: May use Water type as well as Bug, Ice, or Ground type provided they have at least three (3) distinct attacks of that type in their 5th Generation learnset. Type Recap: Water, Bug, Ice, Ground Signature Move Form: Pokemon: <Pokemon learning the signature move> Base Move: <The base move of the signature> New Type: <The new type of the signature> Name: <The name being given to the signature> Description: <A DAT type description of how the attack is performed> Data: <Data for the move> Example: Pokemon: Camerupt Base Move: Body Slam New Type: Fire Name: Fire Drive Description: Camerupt charges into the foe full force with its whole body in flames. The heat and pressure of the attack can cause a burn. Data: Attack Power: 7 + User Weight Class/2.5 (round up) \| Accuracy: 100% \| Energy Cost: 5 + Weight Class/3 \| Attack Type: Physical \| Effect Chance: 30% \| Contact: Yes \| Typing: Fire \| Priority: 0 \| CT: Elemental __________________ [17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me? [17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner [17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol [17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either [17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages [17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod. [17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal. [17:57] <Birkal> >:\| Last edited by Deck Knight; Nov 24th, 2012 at 2:35:42 AM.

Nov 22nd, 2012, 8:12:34 AM	#522
TIO Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 734	How much do sig moves cost? Where can we get them? __________________ My CAP ASB stuff is here.

Nov 22nd, 2012, 8:14:50 AM	#523
Complications Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,656 The Demonata	Deck Knight where will these move applications be posted? Also, is there a limit to the number of signature moves attainable? (I assume one?) __________________ "Where is the horse and the rider... Where is the horn that was blowing... They have passed like rain on the mountains... Like wind in the meadow... The days have come down in the West... Behind the hills into shadow..." Last edited by Complications; Nov 22nd, 2012 at 8:27:37 AM.

Nov 22nd, 2012, 8:59:41 AM	#524
Yarnus of Bethany Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,825 In the world, but not of the world	I was kind of hoping I could give my snorlax an energy restoring rest, but this is still great. Finally my snorlax can finally be different from other snorlax! Thank you Deck Knight!

Nov 22nd, 2012, 9:17:07 AM	#525
Gerard Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2,999 Mmm... Ice Cream!	I think there are some moves missing from the Unusable list (ex. Endeavour, who I don't think shoud be allowed to be used as a base move) Otherwise it's a great idea, though it might be a slap in the face for pokemon with shallow movepools whose attacks mostly revolve around their STABs, looking good though (maybe now we can get the gym to give TMS?) PS: what does 5th Generation learnset means? I'm thinking all of Level Up, Eggs + 5th Gen TMs & Tutors but I think I would like clarification