ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread (New Proposal Handling System in OP)

[waterwarrior]

As someone who falls into Lou's category of "fuck your Steelix, fuck actual thinking, fuck strategy, I have a Ditto," I also approve of that proposal, and think that the nerf of adding only 2 ranks to each Def stat is the better way to go.

[Yarnus of Bethany]

As a user of metal powder, I can't say I approve, but it is definitely too powerful.

I think both would be fine, though the first would be better. With the second, the best course if action would be to bring your ditto in on an offensive mon, which seems counter-intuitive.


On another note I would like to suggest a new item, the Everstone. It is pretty much the only item not already incorporated into ASB.
This effect would do fine:

Everstone: Increases the attack and special attack of an NFE by 1 rank each, and it's speed by ten points.
Cost: 20 CC

But anything could work. I just think we should include it somehow for the sale of completeness.

[LouisCyphre]

With stuff like Rhydon around? Not likely. Eviolite is bad enough.

[Pwnemon]

I'm actually with yarnus on this one, an everstone would be nice. However, i would suggest something like this:

Grants a Pokemon 2 extra MC per battle, but only if it is not at its full stage of evolution (it can have full EC as long as it isn't evolved)

this would make everstone more like its ingame function

[Aweshucks]

nah, dude, that's crazy.

[Yarnus of Bethany]

It's only one rank. Rhydon, for example, might like Eviolite just as much. It never uses SpA, and speed means nothing to it, so part of it would be wasted. In my opinion, it's probably under powered. However, if it would make a difference, you could get rid of the speed bonus. That would make it around the power level of life orb, which is acceptable.

Edit: response to Pwnmon: that looks good, but as it stands, it somewhat outclasses XP share. What about making it prevent the mon from gaining EC that match?

[Aweshucks]

yeah, I wasn't saying your idea was crazy, I was saying pwnemon's idea was crazy. I think that's just a little too much

[Pwnemon]

It's exp share +1 mc and it doesn't grant the bonuses to FEs. I fail to see the crazy in that

Edit: yarnus has yet another good idea.

New draft:

The Pokemon holding this item gains an extra 2 mc; however, it does not gain EC for the match. A pokemon with full EC does not gain any extra MC from holding this item

[Lord Jesseus]

Yarnus and Pwnemon are onto something here. The latest rendition is good for Pokemon that aren't wanted to evolve, for example my Scyther. Not having to worry about EC and jumping straight into the greater MC amounts is pretty nice.

[Aweshucks]

My only concern is that it might be too good, especially for pokemon with no intent on evolving, like your scyther

[Pwnemon]

Aweshucks: for comparison, having full EC and DC and an equipped Exp Share is just as powerful of an MC gain as the everstone. Overpowered my ass, but it does have some use and therefore is worth adding

[Lord Jesseus]

Yeah, it's exactly the same as an EXP Share with Full EC. Realistically, it will only save 6 or 9 counters for each Pokemon ever. And as a trade-off, it's very limited in its usage.

[LouisCyphre]

It's kind of pointless, really. We could be doing much cooler things with Everstone.

[Lord Jesseus]

Such as? If you have an idea I'd like to hear it.

Speaking of items that haven't been used, I think one that could be useful is the Gen 1 EXP All.
I'm thinking something that causes the MC of the holder to be distributed among its teammates.
It would be useful for Max-movepool mons in cases when CC is not needed, or mons who really need no more moves.
I'd say of course the MC would have to given to a mon who participated in or at least was brought to the battle. Whether it would be limited (eg each mon can only gain one MC from another in this way) I don't know.
Thoughts?

[Gerard]

I thing this one would be to much on brawls and stuff like that (since I think it would be considered a training item) so I really don't think it's right that way, maybe something like sending the MC (and maybe even EC & DC) to another teammate decided when that poke hits the field

[Lord Jesseus]

Gerard I don't mean if the mon would've gotten 3 MC then every mon on the team gets 3 MC. I mean if the mon would have gotten 3 MC, you can take those three MC and give them to someone else, but you still only have three. I don't see how it would be "too much" in brawls, unless you equip ever mon but one with the item and funnel all the MC into the remaining mon. But even then, what's the harm? It's really no advantage over battling with them normally, and in fact you've had to spend however many CC on all those EXP Alls.

[Deck Knight]

RE: Blizzard + Sheer Cold in doubles:

It has -2 Priority. Counter it with a weather the action of. 38 EN for a 37 BAP, 55 Acc Attack is entirely reasonable.

RE: Metal Powder

It is true not every mon has item removal capacity and the 2x boost can get quite out of hand, especially since Ditto's 90 HP is the only downside. I prefer going with the nerf to 1.5x. Even the most extreme example, Shuckle, comes with the caveat of increasing the cost of Power Trick, among other things. In Steelix's case using Special attacks will still be 2 SpA vs. 5 SpD, Ditto is just better against some mons.

Originally Posted by Fat Metal Powder

Metal Powder: Increases the Defense and Special Defense of the Pokemon by half (1.5x) of its current ranks, rounded up. Effect remains even while transformed.

Cost: 6 | Affected Pokemon: Ditto

Of course one other thing I could do with Ditto is make phazing moves in Switch=KO revert it back to Ditto until it could transform again, except that'd make Sub + Phaze a Ditto slaughterer.

[LouisCyphre]

Item removal puts you at turn disadvantage against what is basically yourself, don't forget. Trick just gives you a useless item and gives them a useful one, and so on.

As it stands, Ditto is a substitute for hundreds of counters of investment. I don't know how to handle that, or if it's even a problem.

[LouisCyphre]

doppelposte

Can Link Cable affect Kingdra? It puts him at 100/4/4/4/4/85, as opposed to Dragon Scale's 100/4/3/4/3/85 with boosted Sniper.

[deadfox081]

Oooh I like this idea.

It almost makes Kingdra useable.

[Aweshucks]

Yeah. And any pokemon who needs to be traded to evolve should really get it, to be consistant, though that could be a bit broken (Steelix anybody?)

[Deck Knight]

Originally Posted by Fat deadfox081

Oooh I like this idea.

It almost makes Kingdra useable.

If ya'all are complaining about a Pokemon with one weakness (and the means to crush exploiters of that weakness six ways to Sunday) you have bigger issues than screwing with stats or items. Kingra barely needs a buff at all, and Dragon Scale is plenty good as it stands.

But of Pokemon that do need to be nerfed, Ditto is gonna get that treatment with a few changes.

1. Imposter, like weather activations will have an initial EN cost. This EN Cost will be set at 10.

2. Phazing moves used against Ditto in a Switch=KO Battle will revert its transformed state back to Ditto, forcing it to use Transform (unless it wants to use Struggle ofc.)

3. Transform will be boosted in cost from 5 to 10 EN, but to compensate will work against Substitute and under Taunt, and the transformation will always last for a duration of at least six (6) actions. Imposter will not have the 6 action phazing immunity, so if Ditto Imposters on the way in and immediately Taunts a foe, they can still be Dragon Tailed back into a Ditto and have to re-Transform for example.

4. Set the change in Metal Powder to be 1.5x Ranks.

The practical impact of these changes is to make Item-removal and phazing effective strategies against Ditto, while basically allowing it to stay Transformed. Ditto will thus be a 90 HP, 90 EN clone of whatever it is sent out against, and if phazed will need to Transform again to continue effective fighting. It also gives the move Transform a benefit over Imposter. In the meantime it will keep its item boost unless it is knocked off. This should leave Ditto quite capable of annoying the right threats, but hardly a substitute for skill.

[Gerard]

Two questions, What happens to Ditto's abilities while transformed?, and Does Imposter copies Double Team clones?

[waterwarrior]

I really do have to contest part of this change. Due to so many pokes having access to a phasing move in some form (whether it be Roar, Whirlwind, etc.), that whenever Ditto is coming out, its practically spending 19 EN (including STAB on Transform) to be able to attack at all, as well as giving the opponent a free turn to nail Ditto with a combo or set up for an easy victory in a large percentage of possible matchups. From the few experiences I've had with Ditto, you quickly learn that, unless you're majorly outplaying an opponent with their own mon, once someone gains a one-action advantage, they've pretty much just won the battle.

Because of that, I really think that clause 2 should be removed completely, although I find clauses 1, 3, and 4 fair.

[EndQuote]

Seconding what Waterwarrior said, I think Clause #2 is too easily abused.
A simple substitution along the lines of IF Transform THEN Roar/Whirlwind/Dragon Tail essentially shuts down anything Ditto can do.

That being said, I fully support the Metal Powder nerf.