Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 (DS, June in JP, Fall in EU/NA/AU) - Updated May 12th

[Charon]

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

It could or it could not have EVs, we really can't know we can only suppose, those are only estimations, not the real deal; but in the end we should wait and see, after all there's only 8 days left.

Note that they are exactly lv.50, not one exp above or below.
It would mean that they deliberately added EVs in his higher attacks while leaving the rest essentially untouched.

THAT is less likely than the attacks really being min 165.

No need to wait when its pretty straight forward, simply assuming they're not intentionally trying to trick us with these stats (wtf).

[Prophet]

Based on the screens and a bit of my spare time...

125 HP/165 Atk/100 Def/115 SpA/90 SpD/95 Spe BST: 690
125 HP/115 Atk/90 Def/165 SpA/100 SpD/95 Spe BST: 690

This was calculated with IVs ranging 21/20/10/26/11/10, these are seemingly the same Kyurems with Lax natures.

[Rayquaza_]

Originally Posted by Fat ElectivireRocks

Black Kyurem in particular, if it gets access to a good physical electric move, is going to become the best wallbreaker in the tier. It's hard to find a pokemon that can easily take out Kyogre, Groudon, Lugia, Giratina and Ho-oh all at once.

There is no such pokemon in fact. Mewtwo is probably the closest one but it can't take a hit if it's running an offensive EV spread. Kyurem might not have the best typing in the world, but most of its weaknesses are rare in ubers and its resistances are pretty common.

However if Kyurem is forced to run Freeze Shock/Ice Burn and those moves don't get a boost that makes them viable in competitive play, it's going to be a pretty significant drawback. Despite their perfect coverage in 3 moves, not being able to run moves like Substitute is going to be annoying.

[Charon]

Originally Posted by Fat Prophet

Based on the screens and a bit of my spare time...

125 HP/165 Atk/100 Def/115 SpA/90 SpD/95 Spe BST: 690
125 HP/115 Atk/90 Def/165 SpA/100 SpD/95 Spe BST: 690

This was calculated with IVs ranging 21/20/10/26/11/10, these are seemingly the same Kyurems with Lax natures.

Yep.

Lol damn I did everything right but miscalculated the sum.

So its either 690 or 700 depending on whether its attacks are 165/115 or 170/120. The latter looks nicer, as does the 700...
125 - 170/120 - 100/90 -120/170 - 90/100 - 95 = 700 ftw.

[rocky505]

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

It could or it could not have EVs, we really can't know we can only suppose, those are only estimations, not the real deal; but in the end we should wait and see, after all there's only 8 days left.

Actually it's a week and 2 hours until the 23rd(Japan time)

[Rayquaza_]

Pure speculation here, but assuming a "complete form" will eventually show up, this stat distribution:

HP: 125
Atk: 150
Def: 100
Sp. Atk: 150
Sp. Def: 100
Spe: 95

BST: 720

has a neat and clean stat distribution which combines aspects of the whole trio (150 offensive stats from Zekrom and Reshiram as well as Kyurem's mirrored stats).

I'd say 700 BST for Black and White Kyurem makes sense.

[Charon]

Originally Posted by Fat Rayquaza_

Pure speculation here, but assuming a "complete form" will eventually show up, this stat distribution:

HP: 125
Atk: 150
Def: 100
Sp. Atk: 150
Sp. Def: 100
Spe: 95

BST: 720

has a neat and clean stat distribution which combines aspects of the whole trio (150 offensive stats from Zekrom and Reshiram as well as Kyurem's mirrored stats).

I'd say 700 BST for Black and White Kyurem makes sense.

Hah,
that would require a fifth game though, wouldn't it? xDDD
Which won't happen simply due to DS being dead after this.

Wonder if it would be just Dragon or have some neat feature like its type switching between Fire/Electric/Ice every turn lol.

I was fully supporting the idea that Kyurem is some kind of remains of the original dragon, but as BW2 were announced, I'm now quite confident its some seperate parasite dragon that crashed down to earth on its own, regardless of Reshiram/Zekroms origin. :E

[Prophet]

I highly doubt any other member of the Tao myths will appear as an actual Pokemon.

Color me excited though, I may consider importing these games...

[Reshiram44]

Originally Posted by Fat Anikrahman1995

No kidding. Their base atk/satk is 170. That's second to Deoxys-A. They are also getting Blue Flare and Bolt Strike which means it will be hard to wall them. BTW ice is an excellent offensive type in ubers. Note that their secondary attack stat is less than 120.
EDIT: To clarify to the guy below, I mean less than base 120. This becomes apparent when you compare the kyurem formes with reshiram and Zekrom. The base speed seems to be 90. So that means that the secondary base attack could be 115 or something. To those who proved my assumptions wrong - congrats! When I first saw the stat screen, I didnt want to believe that something would have 165 base attack.

Do not state speculation as fact. No one confirmed that they will be getting blueflare/boltstrike. In fact, it has been confirmed a while ago that they WON'T have those moves, because ice burn/ freeze shock are 140 in power, which is an uber move.

[Anikrahman1995]

Originally Posted by Fat Reshiram44

Do not state speculation as fact. No one confirmed that they will be getting blueflare/boltstrike. In fact, it has been confirmed a while ago that they WON'T have those moves, because ice burn/ freeze shock are 140 in power, which is an uber move.

Wish you read my earlier post before saying something. Kyurem is BW1 did not have a level 100 level up move. It learns the 140 base power moves at level 50 as shown in the Reshiram vs Black Kyurem Video. Now if you think these formes will not get the level 100 moves, I wont argue with you. But seeing the stats of the new formes, its pretty clear that they will likely get them. I mean what else are they supposed to learn at level 100?

[rocky505]

Originally Posted by Fat Reshiram44

Do not state speculation as fact. No one confirmed that they will be getting blueflare/boltstrike. In fact, it has been confirmed a while ago that they WON'T have those moves, because ice burn/ freeze shock are 140 in power, which is an uber move.

Actually 2 turn moves are NU moves lol.

[Reshiram44]

Originally Posted by Fat Anikrahman1995

Wish you read my earlier post before saying something. Kyurem is BW1 did not have a level 100 level up move. It learns the 140 base power moves at level 50 as shown in the Reshiram vs Black Kyurem Video. Now if you think these formes will not get the level 100 moves, I wont argue with you. But seeing the stats of the new formes, its pretty clear that they will likely get them. I mean what else are they supposed to learn at level 100?

Junichi Masuda was asked about the signature moves on his twitter and stated "I'm afraid not" When they asked him about if they will learn blueflare/boltstrike. dialga learned roar of time at level 50 and it has 150 power and you dont see him learning an uber move at level 100 do you? No.

[Purimpopoie]

Speaking of the moves, though, what if that's the trigger for Black Kyurem/White Kyurem's forme change, akin to Keldeo's Secret Sword form change? Will having to have this move effect their viability and tiering? (Obviously it will, but how much of a handicap is only having 3 usable moves)

[MeroMero]

Originally Posted by Fat Charon

Note that they are exactly lv.50, not one exp above or below.
It would mean that they deliberately added EVs in his higher attacks while leaving the rest essentially untouched.

THAT is less likely than the attacks really being min 165.

No need to wait when its pretty straight forward, simply assuming they're not intentionally trying to trick us with these stats (wtf).

If you look at the pics, you'll see the local wireless connection logo (not the Wi-fi one), and judging by the screens those are the the screens who resume the Pokémon ability, stats and held item when you're battling.
Now I can say as well this is a C-Gear InfraRed battle, since it scales the level of all Pokémon at lv 50 while still allowing "Special Pokémon" like Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem (I've tested it so I know what I'm talking about) so yeah we definitely can't know if Kyurem was EVed or not but be it 160, 165 or more it's going to be killer anyway lol.

[Rayquaza_]

Coverage-wise, both formes have no problems whatsoever. Factoring Teravolt/Turboblaze, Electric/Ice/Dragon hits everything bar Magnezone for at least neutral damage and Fire/Ice/Dragon has perfect coverage.

Given the Atk/Sp.Atk drop, mixed sets are best left to regular Kyurem (normal forme has been shown to use Flamethrower in the M15 trailer, make of it what you will), so I think the biggest problem is not being able to run Substitute if Black and White Kyurem are forced to carry those moves.

I wonder what kind of damage Choice'd Draco Meteor and Outrage coming from 165 (Sp.) Atk. are capable of against the most popular walls...

Just for the fun of it:

165 Sp. Atk. Choice Specs STAB Draco Meteor against 0/0 Kyogre: 85.04-100%

Funny stuff.

[Anikrahman1995]

Originally Posted by Fat Reshiram44

Junichi Masuda was asked about the signature moves on his twitter and stated "I'm afraid not" When they asked him about if they will learn blueflare/boltstrike. dialga learned roar of time at level 50 and it has 150 power and you dont see him learning an uber move at level 100 do you? No.

Welcome to smogon. Try getting your facts right. Dialga doesnt learn Roar of Time at level 50, its at an earlier level. I dont even know what an uber move is - please define it. How does Dialga have anything to do with Reshiram and Zekrom? Its like you are saying that I said every uber needs a level 100 move. I was assuming that the Kyurem formes would learn those moves since Kyurem did not learn a level 100 move unlike the other two. You could have just told me that they would not learn those moves. Btw I dont trust you, I would actually like to see from where you actually got this information. If anyone else knows anything about this please let me know.

[Reshiram44]

Originally Posted by Fat Anikrahman1995

Welcome to smogon. Try getting your facts right. Dialga doesnt learn Roar of Time at level 50, its at an earlier level. I dont even know what an uber move is - please define it. How does Dialga have anything to do with Reshiram and Zekrom? Its like you are saying that I said every uber needs a level 100 move. I was assuming that the Kyurem formes would learn those moves since Kyurem did not learn a level 100 move unlike the other two. You could have just told me that they would not learn those moves. Btw I dont trust you, I would actually like to see from where you actually got this information. If anyone else knows anything about this please let me know.

Still, and I already said it's on his twitter. An uber move is a move with very high power. And what else could they learn at level 100 you ask? White Kyurem: Draco Meteor, Black Kyurem: Outrage

[Sun Sol]

Nah, DM and Outrage will likely remain Tutor and Lv Up moves, respectably.

Ice Burn and Freeze Shock are likely going to be caught with them. The moves are everywhere on advertizements, similar to R/Z's Fusion attacks. Also note that official media compares IB/FS to FF/FB, as opposed to BF/BS (despite FB/FS clearly being "corrupt" variants of those). BF/BS were basically "rewards" for getting your R/Z to Lv100.

What they learn at Lv100 is a mystery. The Fusion attacks are possible, but they wouldn't be balanced in the same way as they were for R/Z, since WK resists Electric, but BK takes neutral from Fire.

I'm personally hoping that Lv100 is an "auto-charge" for IB/FS (the effect could either be added onto TB/TV or part of a hold item that acts like a permanent Power Herb. It's unlikely, but they have to get something at Lv100.

[MB Espeon]

Sounds like you're making up classifications on the spot since there's more to moves than base power.

Anyhow, I'd imagine freeze shock and ice burn are either linked to the form somehow or are learned earlier, because how else are they gonna have a standoff-ish battle with signature moves? They're advertising them much like fusion flare/bolt as well so that's how I see it happening.

Huh, seems I was beaten to it. Well, consider this a "seconded" then.

[Reshiram44]

Originally Posted by Fat Sun Sol

Nah, DM and Outrage will likely remain Tutor and Lv Up moves, respectably.

Ice Burn and Freeze Shock are likely going to be caught with them. The moves are everywhere on advertizements, similar to R/Z's Fusion attacks. Also note that official media compares IB/FS to FF/FB, as opposed to BF/BS (despite FB/FS clearly being "corrupt" variants of those). BF/BS were basically "rewards" for getting your R/Z to Lv100.

What they learn at Lv100 is a mystery. The Fusion attacks are possible, but they wouldn't be balanced in the same way as they were for R/Z, since WK resists Electric, but BK takes neutral from Fire.

I'm personally hoping that Lv100 is an "auto-charge" for IB/FS (the effect could either be added onto TB/TV or part of a hold item that acts like a permanent Power Herb. It's unlikely, but they have to get something at Lv100.

Agreed. They might get a signature move that skips IB/FS charge turn. That would be awesome. And when you use that move it would also protect you.

[Jirachi6]

Originally Posted by Fat Reshiram44

Still, and I already said it's on his twitter. An uber move is a move with very high power. And what else could they learn at level 100 you ask? White Kyurem: Draco Meteor, Black Kyurem: Outrage

Sure, a high-powered move may do tons of damage, but don't charge moves (eg. solarbeam, kyurem moves) and recharge moves (eg. hyper beam, roar of time) have annoying issues that can potentially cost you the game? On the other hand, there are many great moves that don't do a lot of dammage right off the bat. Not all high-powered moves are "uber moves," but not all low-powered ones are terrible. It's not very simple.

Edit: I was beaten by everyone here.

[Anikrahman1995]

Originally Posted by Fat Reshiram44

Still, and I already said it's on his twitter. An uber move is a move with very high power. And what else could they learn at level 100 you ask? White Kyurem: Draco Meteor, Black Kyurem: Outrage

Uber move lol....Blast Burn....Hydro Cannon....You went off tangent and started talking about things I never mentioned. I never even asked what the level 100 moves could be. Kyurem learns Outrage by level-up and Draco Meteor through Tutor. It seems that everyone agrees that they will get something at level 100. Again, I would like to ask where you got your information. Send me a link or I cant believe someone who keeps getting facts wrong. Could someone else confirm what he said?

[Reshiram44]

Originally Posted by Fat Anikrahman1995

Uber move lol....Blast Burn....Hydro Cannon....You went off tangent and started talking about things I never mentioned. I never even asked what the level 100 moves could be. Kyurem learns Outrage by level-up and Draco Meteor through Tutor. It seems that everyone agrees that they will get something at level 100. Again, I would like to ask where you got your information. Send me a link or I cant believe someone who keeps getting facts wrong.

You did ask posts ago... Facepalm. I'm speculating just like you. So I'm not saying everything i say are facts. Dialga learns his move at level 47. I was trying to get my point across. I said (if you read my previous post) that he might learn a move at 100. And like I said. JUST GO ON JUNICHI MASUDAS TWITTER. I'm not trying to be mean. I apologize for offending you in any way. Blueflare and boltstrike were rewards (like sun already said) for leveling up R/Z to level 100.

[Ditto]

Anikrahman1995 and Reshiram44, please stop this annoying bickering. This is a thread to discuss and speculate, not to argue.

[AvatarMew]

Does.ayonethink.that.the.Kyurems'.new.abilties.wou ld.give.them.a.1.5x.boost.to.Fire/eletric.moves?
but.only.to.them.like.multitype.onmly.works.for.Ar ecus?