Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 (DS, June in JP, Fall in EU/NA/AU) - Updated May 12th

[ElectivireRocks]

Originally Posted by Fat Katakiri

I didn't say anything about Jirachi, I said coverage. Kyurem can hit everything in the game minus Shedinja with 3 Moves. With Fusion Flare, Kyurem gets walled by, say it with me, everyone: Heatran. It needs Focus Blast. HP Fire/Fusion Flare only helps take down some Pokemon, it doesn't add to it's coverage because it has everything covered already.

But now I will say something about Jirachi because you felt it necessary to bring it up:
252 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem Fusion Flare vs 252 HP/224 SpDef Jirachi: 57.43% - 67.33%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Nope.

Fusion Flare would be a great 4th move for hitting some Steel-types harder than Focus Blast (outside of Rain) but that's about it.

White Kyurem is most likely getting a Sp. Atk. increase and a 100% accurate coverage move is better than a 70% one.
Besides your calculations show that with Fusion Flare it can finally 2HKO specially defensive Jirachi, something that Kyurem can't do right now, which proves my point.

[The Diverman]

Nice c&p, though you forgot to add the first paragraph where in the first sentence it says "The mythologies of the trio are implied to be connected, despite having no true relation" and the relation is probably what BW2 will be about. So no, Kyurem just doesn't happen to be a pokemon that can absorb their power. Now I was probably ahead of myself when I said all three was part of the Original Dragon, but it is a popular theory and a likely scenario.

[Charon]

Originally Posted by Fat Cobraroll

Genesect-O, anyone? Just throwing the possibility out here, for later. They won't reveal an alternate Genesect before revealing the first one.

"Over 300 million years ago, it was feared as the strongest of hunters. It has been modified by Team Plasma."

"It is thought to have inhabited beaches 300 million years ago. It is protected by a stiff shell." - Kabuto dex entry.


It doesnt look similar apart from the core body shape, but I thought the 300million year thing was fun lol.

[Cinccino]

Originally Posted by Fat Katakiri

Kyurem's origins are much different than those of the other two. The third dragon came down to Earth from an icy meteor and crashed into a place called Giant Chasm. An old legend in Lacunosa Town describing Kyurem claims that it would take people and Pokémon away from the town and eat them; this is why the town is now surrounded by a giant wall."

Katakiri, I think there are too many obvious relations of Kyurem with Resh/Zek for him to be a random dragon falling off the sky: the type core (Electric/Fire/Ice), the name (Rom/Ram/Rem), similar level-up moves (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...milar_movesets), and more.

And if I remember correctly Giratina wasn't mentioned in any Sinnoh Legend before Platinum. So chance says Lacunosa's Legend is just a... legend.

[King Serperior]

@Charon: So, fhat do you think Plasma did to the scyths? Assuming that your theory is correct of course.

Either way, It is very intriguing...

[Vitalise]

Lol, i havnt even played B/W yet. Gotta get a move on!

[Katakiri]

Originally Posted by Fat ElectivireRocks

White Kyurem is most likely getting a Sp. Atk. increase and a 100% accurate coverage move is better than a 70% one.
Besides your calculations show that with Fusion Flare it can finally 2HKO specially defensive Jirachi, something that Kyurem can't do right now, which proves my point.

Your point? What point? Fusion Flare is inferior to Focus Blast in terms of coverage, which was my point. Not accuracy, COVERAGE. 70% of the time, Focus Blast is 100% better than Fusion Flare. That's both power & COVERAGE. Fusion Flare's just an "extra" move but the problem with your lack of a point is, Kyurem already has Hidden Power Fire which KOes basically the exact same things, so it doesn't change much at all. I should know, I use Kyurem. The power increase from Fusion Flare is very nice, but it doesn't change how Kyurem plays at all.

After 1 layer of Spikes, Hidden Power Fire 2HKOes Sp.Def Jirachi as well. And with your White Kyurem Sp.Atk boost HP Fire would 2HKO anyway. But Kyurem has no business staying on on Jirachi anyway so the entire point is mute.

Originally Posted by Fat Cinccino

Katakiri, I think there are too many obvious relations of Kyurem with Resh/Zek for him to be a random dragon falling off the sky: the type core (Electric/Fire/Ice), the name (Rom/Ram/Rem), similar level-up moves (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...milar_movesets), and more.

And if I remember correctly Giratina wasn't mentioned in any Sinnoh Legend before Platinum. So chance says Lacunosa's Legend is just a... legend.

Giratina really didn't have much of a relationship to Dialga & Palkia either. Giratina controls anti-matter and the Distortion World, where time does not flow and spatial relations are irregular.

Dialga & Palkia control Space & Time in the Pokemon World. Those two don't matter at all to Giratina because time & space are meant to be absent from Giratina's world. Aside from being created by Arceus, Giratina doesn't have a connection to the two past that. Origin Forme shares even less similarities even though they are a trio. It's kind of like the Regi trio. Regigigas created them, but they have no connection besides that.

I'm not saying Kyurem isn't a part of the trio design-wise, it's obvious that it is. I'm saying that Kyurem has no previous importance to Zekrom nor Reshiram. Even if you dismiss Kyurem's backstory, Kyurem is NEVER mentioned anywhere in the legends of Zekrom & Reshiram that we're fed through the entire game. It's always 2 dragons. Never was there any mention of a third dragon that could be Kyurem. The original dragon split into 2. There's no Shedinja to it. How Kyurem fits into the story is entirely unknown.

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Yes, because everyone mentioned Mewtwo, and Rayquaza in those games...that clearly means they have no connection to anything in the games. None at all. I mean, it FUSES into them. I'm pretty sure that means their is a big correlation between the three. Just because it isn't spelt out for your enjoyment doesn't mean it isn't true.


Also, so was it confirmed by serebii that its type is staying Dragon/Ice apparently.

http://serebii.net/index2.shtml

[Captain Dragan]

Originally Posted by Fat A Fhaol Bhig

Yes, because everyone mentioned Mewtwo, and Rayquaza in those games...that clearly means they have no connection to anything in the games. None at all. I mean, it FUSES into them. I'm pretty sure that means their is a big correlation between the three. Just because it isn't spelt out for your enjoyment doesn't mean it isn't true.


Also, so was it confirmed by serebii that its type is staying Dragon/Ice apparently.

http://serebii.net/index2.shtml

Read the previous pages of this thread, we already know about Kyurem's typing.

[Charon]

katakiri isnt saying it has nothing to do with them, just that its origin may be a seperate process.

I dont see that however. Its essentially what the other 2 are just without its own generator, hence ice instead of an energy type, hence wuji..

[Purimpopoie]

Originally Posted by Fat Katakiri

Kyurem can hit everything in the game minus Shedinja with 3 Moves. With Fusion Flare, Kyurem gets walled by, say it with me, everyone: Heatran. It needs Focus Blast. HP Fire/Fusion Flare only helps take down some Pokemon, it doesn't add to it's coverage because it has everything covered already.

What if Kyurem gets Turboblaze? It's not walled by Heatran, then.. is it?

EDIT: Ninja'd
EDIT2: More like I wasn't paying attention to what page I was on. Whatever.

[blasphemy1]

Originally Posted by Fat Katakiri

So Terrakion has garbage coverage because Stone Edge is inaccurate? Please.

I didn't say anything about Jirachi, I said coverage. Kyurem can hit everything in the game minus Shedinja with 3 Moves. With Fusion Flare, Kyurem gets walled by, say it with me, everyone: Heatran. It needs Focus Blast. HP Fire/Fusion Flare only helps take down some Pokemon, it doesn't add to it's coverage because it has everything covered already.

But now I will say something about Jirachi because you felt it necessary to bring it up:
252 SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem Fusion Flare vs 252 HP/224 SpDef Jirachi: 57.43% - 67.33%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Nope.

Fusion Flare would be a great 4th move for hitting some Steel-types harder than Focus Blast (outside of Rain) but that's about it.

Terrakion has the reliable and very powerful Close Combat. Stone Edge supplements its coverage. Meanwhile, Kyurem has the unreliable (in terms of sustainable damage) Draco Meteor and the even more unreliable Focus Blast to supplement its coverage. Stone Edge gets STAB, Focus Blast does not. Stone Edge also has a much higher chance of hitting twice in a row (64% vs 49%). They are not comparable in the slightest.

Focus Blast here would be the fourth move, NOT Fusion Flare. Dragon + Fire doesn't have the same neutral coverage as Dragon + Fighting, but it comes damn near close. The more important thing with a Pokemon like Kyurem who is weak to Stealth Rock is that it provides a more reliable coverage attack alongside Dragon. Focus Blast would be used for Tyranitar and Heatran, while Fusion Flare is the better move to spam. When looking for coverage, you should always go with reliability. ALWAYS. This is why Pokemon like Latios can succeed with Surf. Not because it hits Tyranitar super effectively, but because it's reliable.

[The QWAZ]

Originally Posted by Fat Katakiri

I'm not saying Kyurem isn't a part of the trio design-wise, it's obvious that it is. I'm saying that Kyurem has no previous importance to Zekrom nor Reshiram. Even if you dismiss Kyurem's backstory, Kyurem is NEVER mentioned anywhere in the legends of Zekrom & Reshiram that we're fed through the entire game. It's always 2 dragons. Never was there any mention of a third dragon that could be Kyurem. The original dragon split into 2. There's no Shedinja to it. How Kyurem fits into the story is entirely unknown.

i always thought when the original dragon split there was a massive explosion and an influx of energy which flew up into the sky then formed while in space (which would explain its ice typing)
came crashing back down to earth in the form of Kyurem.

[Charon]

Originally Posted by Fat The QWAZ

i always thought when the original dragon split there was a massive explosion and an influx of energy which flew up into the sky then formed while in space (which would explain its ice typing)
came crashing back down to earth in the form of Kyurem.

At first I was like, Right...

But actually... right o_o

Yeah, maybe black and white splitting off the original dragon, and a meteor crashing above lacunosa, was the same event.

It reminds me of watching Zekrom turning into a ball of lightning, flying up and crashing down.


The ice is explained simply from not having a tail that generates energy.

[StallMandibuzz]

The people of Lacunosa Town might not have known about Kyurem's origins, but perhaps the three Dragons got into a fight, and Kyurem was the loser or something? I'm sure getting hit with two super-powerful Draco Meteors at the same time will definitely be able to send something into orbit. Perhaps Kyurem wasn't originally an Ice-type, but being shot into space altered its' genetic makeup. I'm just assuming things here, of course, but it could be possible. Then when coming back to Earth, it lands near Lacunosa Town, where it starts to prey on humans?

[Charon]

Why the heck would being shot into space "alter its genetic makeup"? e_e

[StallMandibuzz]

It freezes over in space? I'm pretty sure that any living thing would be completely encased in ice if shot into space, or they would just implode from the pressure.

[Mario With Lasers]

...I thought there was no pressure in space ?__?

[StallMandibuzz]

@Mario: I could be totally wrong about the pressure thing, but I do know that space is very very cold, so Kyurem freezing up in space isn't all that farfetched.

[UltiMario]

Space is either incredibly cold or incredibly hot depending on what area you're looking at.

[Cobraroll]

Originally Posted by Fat StallMandibuzz

It freezes over in space? I'm pretty sure that any living thing would be completely encased in ice if shot into space, or they would just implode from the pressure.

Oh wow. What to say...

First and foremost, space is cold, BUT: There is no medium through which heat can transfer. That means that the problem with space isn't freezing, it's actually overheating. You have no way to get rid of the heat your body produces.
Also, "encased in ice" implies that lots of water is present and sticks to the body. Where would that water come from?

Then, the pressure (or rather, the absolute lack thereof). Yes, it would kill, but suffocation would be a greater problem. The lungs would almost burst, because the pressure inside them is so much greater than the pressure outside. Though, air has a way to escape from the lungs, it's called "burping". You'd be worse off with the gas pockets in the intestines. The expansion of those could rupture some vital blood vessels.

If the pressure is low enough, your blood would actually start boiling. Boiling temperature is actually dependant on pressure, and given low enough pressure, that temperature could go below 37*C (body temperature). This would be rather unpleasant.

All in all, I'm not sure if suffucation or blood clots would get you first, but I've read somewhere that you have approximately thirty seconds to live if thrown into space. Not sure of what goes for dragons, though.

[ShortsTheory]

Originally Posted by Fat Cobraroll

Oh wow. What to say...

First and foremost, space is cold, BUT: There is no medium through which heat can transfer. That means that the problem with space isn't freezing, it's actually overheating. You have no way to get rid of the heat your body produces.
Also, "encased in ice" implies that lots of water is present and sticks to the body. Where would that water come from?

Then, the pressure (or rather, the absolute lack thereof). Yes, it would kill, but suffocation would be a greater problem. The lungs would almost burst, because the pressure inside them is so much greater than the pressure outside. Though, air has a way to escape from the lungs, it's called "burping". You'd be worse off with the gas pockets in the intestines. The expansion of those could rupture some vital blood vessels.

If the pressure is low enough, your blood would actually start boiling. Boiling temperature is actually dependant on pressure, and given low enough pressure, that temperature could go below 37*C (body temperature). This would be rather unpleasant.

All in all, I'm not sure if suffucation or blood clots would get you first, but I've read somewhere that you have approximately thirty seconds to live if thrown into space. Not sure of what goes for dragons, though.

30 seconds? That sounds unbelievable when your blood vessels would explode and the air would be sucked out of your lungs. The brain can function for another 2-3 minutes w/o oxygen, but that would explode too (brain).

Not that Kyurem seems to follow human anatomy, or even regular Dragon anatomy for that matter. We could assume that the meteor probably encased Kyurem in a protective shield that burnt it up in the PokeWorld's atmosphere. Draco Meteor anyone? ;)

[Wishy]

Originally Posted by Fat Katakiri

Reshiram & Zekrom were one Pokemon. Kyurem had no part in that. Kyurem came from space in an icy meteor long after Reshiram & Zekrom split apart.

I just got to Opelucid City for the first time, so I don't know

[satchmo]

So Kyurem was shot into space, hit by a Comet, incased in Ice from said Comet, broke off, got hit by meteor and crashed outside of Lucanusa town.

Sounds Legit.

[Wishy]

Originally Posted by Fat Charon

"Over 300 million years ago, it was feared as the strongest of hunters. It has been modified by Team Plasma."

"It is thought to have inhabited beaches 300 million years ago. It is protected by a stiff shell." - Kabuto dex entry.

[Kabutops]
It doesnt look similar apart from the core body shape, but I thought the 300million year thing was fun lol.

I think the time frame is just a coincidence; Genesect's body is more truer to an ant (or a wasp etc) while Kabutops fits under [a humanoid like] horseshoe crab or sea scorpion.

Though I do wonder if we will ever see the 'original' Genesect.