Research Week #2

**Furai** · Mar 29th, 2012, 11:44:59 AM

Research Week - Ubers Edition!

Duration: March 29th - April 10th
Thanks to Texas Cloverleaf.

It seems the posting of an under-appreciated Pokemon and asking people to play with it is not the best promoter of activity. For this reason, and a few others, I will be including several twists on the classic 'Research Week'. I aim for this Research Week to incorporate elements of Birkal's well known Dark Horse Project that is currently running in DST. I will select three Pokemon with less than 5% usage in the monthly Ubers stats, with which any of you can experiment with. You may use any number of the aforementioned Pokemon in any combination. They do not necessarily have to be used together but if you manage to make them work on the same team, kudos to you!

Thats with the changes in this edition of the Research Week. Now, back to Research Week in itself. Research Week looks to investigate Pokemon that have potential in Ubers, be it in stats, movepool, or supporting their team, to serve as an innovative choice in today's metagame. These are Pokemon that, for the most part, remain relatively untested. I've selected 3 Pokemon I feel, with help from everyone else, could see the rise of new and powerful sets, or the fulfilment of a particular niche. Perhaps the title is a bit of a misnomer; in fact, this installment (and likely future ones) of Research Week will continue as long as the discussion does, and that's where you all come in.

If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning, such as damage calculations! Posting replays showcasing the pokemon you selected is especially encouraged.

• Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize!
• Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in Uber, and what sets are effective on them.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the 3 Pokemon we are "researching". Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect the next research week to have all the Pokemon you suggested, or any of them.

So, the 3 Pokemon we will be looking at this research week are Salamence, Deoxys-D and Espeon.

.

How useful are these Pokemon in Uber? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? What roles can they fill in teams? Are they worth the team slot on your team or is it outclassed?

Discuss; the discussion that come out of this will surely be illuminating! Don't forget, you're not just limited to this topic to discuss these Pokemon. The #ubers irc channel is a perfectly suitable place to discuss them as well. Feel free to take the discussion to #pokemon as well. At the end of the discussion period, hope we can reach a general consensus on how good these Pokemon really are, and that we might find some interesting discoveries.

Alright, now that that's out of the way we can get to the fun part of this. First up, Reasearch Week will now have a duration of roughly two weeks. The reason for this is as follows:

The Research Week Challenge:

Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team

Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 1350 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1300 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1250 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team.

Users will be expected to post their experiences with the pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encoutered while trying to make the said pokemon work.

If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over.

In order to participate in the challenge, simply post what Pokemon you're trying and your fresh new alt (yes, this is mandatory). Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present.

There will also be an archive of the successful teams who managed to break the ladder benchmarks. The archive will consist of the teams used along with the rating achieved by the said team and some comments for the user who built the team. Teams which displayed a significant amount of creativity but fell short of the points cutoff may also be featured in the archive. This will be decided on subjectively by the Uber moderators.

Furthermore, quality posting may be rewarded with larger avatars or custom titles. So get out and post!

alt list

Research Week Hall of Fame

TrollFreak · Mar 29th, 2012, 11:50:04 AM

Trying Salamence

alt- Uber Troll

Tomahawk9 · Mar 29th, 2012, 12:05:00 PM

okay so espeon sucks but ill try deoxys-d.

account name: 3PAC

dragonboy52 · Mar 29th, 2012, 12:08:23 PM

Trying Salamence
Alt: MenceSala

Poppy · Mar 29th, 2012, 12:38:33 PM

I'll be working with all 3. No alts as I can't play on PO, only PS. Will be updating this post alter with some results :).

Keiran · Mar 29th, 2012, 12:40:44 PM

I think I'll try a HO-esque team with both Salamence and Deoxys-D.

Alt: SuperSaiyanKeiran

i need to stop using up my good alts

Fiction. · Mar 29th, 2012, 1:04:31 PM

Going to try Salamence out I think.

Alt: amaryllis

also going to try out deo-d under the name el che

SkullCandy · Mar 29th, 2012, 3:13:56 PM

Trying Salamence.

EDIT: Just lost a 213 turn game with Salamence. Fuck him. Fuck Pokemon.

ZetoTarken · Mar 29th, 2012, 3:51:44 PM

Testing Mence
Alt: Dr. Pokemon

locoghoul · Mar 29th, 2012, 5:34:18 PM

trying Espeon.

alt: Nadalsucks

shrang · Mar 29th, 2012, 6:04:46 PM

Lol, I already have a successful team with Mence in it =).

Just using my main shrang, I can't be bothered using alts.

Splendiferous · Mar 29th, 2012, 10:48:50 PM

I'll try salamence as Tabemono

Emanresu · Mar 29th, 2012, 10:58:45 PM

will be using the alt: illustrious illusion. Salamence should work well side by side with rayquaza.

barry4ever · Mar 30th, 2012, 12:17:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat SkullCandy

Trying Salamence.

EDIT: Just lost a 213 turn game with Salamence. Fuck him. Fuck Pokemon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat shrang

Lol, I already have a successful team with Mence in it =).

Just using my main shrang, I can't be bothered using alts.

Both of you need new alts to be created. The point of this research week is not to just try out something and post but to also see how far we can go on the ladder with that particular pokemon. For that, new alts a absolutely necessary (doesn't make much sense laddering with a 1350 rated alt).

EDIT: Also forgot to mention that the alt list has been updated.

NTT · Mar 30th, 2012, 8:22:27 AM

I'll be using Mence.
Alt: Viva la Gofre

**Furai** · Apr 1st, 2012, 5:48:24 AM

Okay, let's spark discussion up.

Salamence

There's the Mence! Salamence's greatest quality for me is its brute force once it has used Dragon Dance. Being faster than Rayquaza meaning it has a bigger chance of sweeping. Pairing it with Rayquaza is just as good as it has been before, weakening the foe's team before the other sweeps. Now with V-create it would get even more brutal. But the set that attracted you guys is Choice Scarf. It's without a doubt a remarkable set, utilizing Salamence's newly introduced Moxie ability and great Speed to sweep. When I wrote this set in Salamence's analysis, QC members rushed to reject it. Once they have tested it, they were shocked of its effectiveness. The ability to revenge fast-paced sweepers such as Shaymin-S, Darkrai, and Mewtwo is just great, and add to that the Moxie boost. With Spikes on the ground it is very hard to stop Salamence once it has gathered a few Moxie boosts.

Deoxys-D

Big alien on campus. 160 base Defense and Special Defense is just out of this world. Shame its HP is so low... I've tried Deoxys-D once on a team Fiction. gave me, and it worked pretty great. It walls Ferrothorn and Skarmory all day every day, and makes them setup bait by using Taunt. This little fella here can take Modest Choice Scarf Kyogre's full-health rain-boosted Water Spout: Water Spout: 229-270 (75.32 - 88.81%). The only other Spiker (as in Spikes) that can stand up to this is Ferrothorn (which takes just below 50% maximum), but he makes setup bait to any other Spiker. I haven't tested the Agility set though. It looks so great. Deoxys-D is very bulky to take strong hits, and its base 90 Speed allows it to utilize Agility well. After Agility has been used the standard set outspeeds all Deoxys-S bar Choice Scarf, and the 228 Speed spread outspeeds all base 130s with Choice Scarf attached, such as Mewtwo, Shaymin-S, and Darkrai. Couple that with Toxic, Taunt, and Recover, along with its already high defenses, and you got yourself a prime fast staller.

Espeon

This is Xatu's "offensive" variant. Base 130 Special Attack and 110 Speed makes it a decent sweeper. It's faster than most Ubers and it has a nice STAB move in Psychic or Psyshock. I honestly prefer Psyshock because fuck Chansey. Acess to Calm Mind is also pretty great, as with its already respectable base 95 Special Defense, Espeon can now take hits even better. For example, Modest 252 SpA Dialga does 68.56% maximum to a +1 252 HP Espeon. However, Espeon's Magic Bounce ability is what makes it so appealing. It basically messes Stall up. Switch into a Spiker such as Skarmory, get the Spikes bounced back, and set up or something. Skarmory can't do anything to Espeon, as most don't run Brave Bird. What I'm going to try is Dual Screens + Baton Pass. It's like the ideal partner for Salamence; it gets hazards off the field, it can set up screens for Salamence to set up safely, and it can send it in safely with Baton Pass. Pretty much a safe option, eh?

Comment and add on any Pokemon, happy discussing~

Emanresu · Apr 1st, 2012, 1:25:49 PM

from my testing so far this week, I found Salamence to be very underwhelming in almost every position I put him in. Choice Band, Choice scarf, bulky dragon dance, offensive dragon dance, in every role he seemed like just dead weight. His problems are either that he is too weak, not gaining necessary KOes, or that he would die to anything that hit him.

barry4ever · Apr 2nd, 2012, 1:47:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Emanresu

from my testing so far this week, I found Salamence to be very underwhelming in almost every position I put him in. Choice Band, Choice scarf, bulky dragon dance, offensive dragon dance, in every role he seemed like just dead weight. His problems are either that he is too weak, not gaining necessary KOes, or that he would die to anything that hit him.

Have you been using Moxie ? Because Moxie Scarf Salamence has been really impressive for me. I agree Salamence just falls short of certain KOes. Well, thats why you use hazards and don't use Salamence just like any other sweeper / revenge killer. Bring in Salamence when your opponent's Pokemon have been weakened. Practically, all you have to do is get a layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock, keep pounding your opponent with stuff like Specs Dialga / Mewtwo / Darkrai, get rid of his Steel and faster Scarfers (Palkia and Terrakion really, most Palkia's are running Lustrous Orb now). Then bring in Salamence on one of his weakened mons. Its check and mate. If he doesn't switch out, Mence kills him and gets a Moxie boost. If he switches out, Mence does a truckload to whatever is coming in and hopefully 2HKOes it. After 2 Moxie boosts, if you've managed to remove your opponents Steels, its pretty much good game. The idea is to create the win condition for Salamence = Lots of entry hazards + Weakened Team.

Apart from Moxie Scarf Mence, which imo is excellent, I'm planning to try out Scarf and Dragon Dance Mixed. Salamence's speed at base 100 means Palkia has a 50% chance of getting killed. Draco Meteor + Outrage + DD is also cool.

shrang · Apr 2nd, 2012, 4:21:21 AM

Quote:

When I wrote this set in Salamence's analysis, QC members rushed to reject it. Once they have tested it, they were shocked of its effectiveness.

I didn't rush to reject it o_0.

Tomahawk9 · Apr 2nd, 2012, 4:59:21 AM

I have been finding Deoxys-D rather underwelming. I've been using a simple 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD EV spread with Recover / Spikes / Taunt / Magic Coat (which I later replaced with Night Shade / Seismic Toss) and while it's pretty good at setting up Spikes, that's pretty much it. Other than that it is pretty much setup bait for any sweeper that can outspeed and set up on Deoxys-D before the Taunt. The things you can set up on are also mostly other Spikers, and since you have to Taunt them to prevent them from setting up Spikes themselves, they can switch to a counter that turn and you're forced out.

locoghoul · Apr 2nd, 2012, 6:48:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat locoghoul

trying Espeon.

alt: Nadalsucks

First one reporting:

...

I'll still try to get silver but imo my team is not very good. I'm kinda impressed I won a lot of matches.

Anyways the set I'm using is:

Espeon @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
IVs: 30 SpAtk 2 Spe

- HP Fire 70
- Reflect
- Yawn
- Morning Sun

Not running speed because I don't want it to die to Gyro Ball from Ferro or Forry. Paired it with Groudon it can OHKO both of them back with HP Fire while MS now recovers more than half. Reflect so that you can take hits better from support Groudon who I still outspeed. It is a great Ferrothorn and Skarmory counter, while it is ok against Forretress and Tentacruel because of Rapid Spin. Yawn helps pseudo phazing.

Overall, not super impressed as I'm using it just for research's sake. I guess it could prove useful for a very offensive team or a full stall team. My team is kinda balanced and most of the times I ended up using it as fodder. Still, I don't think it is outclassed by Xatu by any means.

Tomahawk9 · Apr 2nd, 2012, 7:40:57 AM

gonna go ahead and try espeon with the alt espeon sucks

Poppy · Apr 2nd, 2012, 7:58:20 AM

GOT ESPEON TO WORK

...

NTT · Apr 2nd, 2012, 10:46:12 AM

Just broke the 1200 mark before being knocked down by hax, I hate Lugia. Will hopefully hit 1250 sometime tonight.

I really couldn't get the old pairing of two Dragon Dancers to work, it doesn't seem half as viable this gen from what I've played. I've taken Furai's suggestion of the Scarf+Moxie and that's been working great so far. The team I'm using is changing quite a bit and I'm still not 100% about what lineup works best or utilises Mence's qualities the most yet, so I'll post more if/when I hit bronze.

EDIT: I've just seen bronze is 1200-1250, not 1250+, fuuuuu. Need to pay moar attention.

Fiction. · Apr 2nd, 2012, 1:02:17 PM

...

barry pretty much sums up my thoughts up on Scarf Moxie Salamence. While underwhelming at certain times (like not OHKOing full HP Zekrom), it has saved me on a number of occasions and is an effective cleaner for the end game. The team I used had Rayquaza to lure Pokes like Groudon in so it can take a Draco Meteor and get OHKO'd (switching Groudon isn't the wisest thing to do anyway unless you're certain it's not Mixed). Then I've been testing other Pokes like Dialga, Darkrai and a couple of others, which kind of explains my current rating of only 1212.

also NTT I think the bronze class actually is 1250, Furai said it was in the challenge description then put 1200-1249 in the HoF thing so I don't know.

Mar 29th, 2012, 11:44:59 AM	#1
Furai standing in the eye of the hurricane Moderator Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,098	Research Week #2 Research Week - Ubers Edition! Duration: March 29th - April 10th Thanks to Texas Cloverleaf. It seems the posting of an under-appreciated Pokemon and asking people to play with it is not the best promoter of activity. For this reason, and a few others, I will be including several twists on the classic 'Research Week'. I aim for this Research Week to incorporate elements of Birkal's well known Dark Horse Project that is currently running in DST. I will select three Pokemon with less than 5% usage in the monthly Ubers stats, with which any of you can experiment with. You may use any number of the aforementioned Pokemon in any combination. They do not necessarily have to be used together but if you manage to make them work on the same team, kudos to you! Thats with the changes in this edition of the Research Week. Now, back to Research Week in itself. Research Week looks to investigate Pokemon that have potential in Ubers, be it in stats, movepool, or supporting their team, to serve as an innovative choice in today's metagame. These are Pokemon that, for the most part, remain relatively untested. I've selected 3 Pokemon I feel, with help from everyone else, could see the rise of new and powerful sets, or the fulfilment of a particular niche. Perhaps the title is a bit of a misnomer; in fact, this installment (and likely future ones) of Research Week will continue as long as the discussion does, and that's where you all come in. If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning, such as damage calculations! Posting replays showcasing the pokemon you selected is especially encouraged. • Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize! • Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in Uber, and what sets are effective on them. • Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing. • Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the 3 Pokemon we are "researching". Feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect the next research week to have all the Pokemon you suggested, or any of them. So, the 3 Pokemon we will be looking at this research week are Salamence, Deoxys-D and Espeon. .... How useful are these Pokemon in Uber? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? What roles can they fill in teams? Are they worth the team slot on your team or is it outclassed? Discuss; the discussion that come out of this will surely be illuminating! Don't forget, you're not just limited to this topic to discuss these Pokemon. The #ubers irc channel is a perfectly suitable place to discuss them as well. Feel free to take the discussion to #pokemon as well. At the end of the discussion period, hope we can reach a general consensus on how good these Pokemon really are, and that we might find some interesting discoveries. Alright, now that that's out of the way we can get to the fun part of this. First up, Reasearch Week will now have a duration of roughly two weeks. The reason for this is as follows: The Research Week Challenge: Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 1350 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1300 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1250 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team. Users will be expected to post their experiences with the pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encoutered while trying to make the said pokemon work. If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over. In order to participate in the challenge, simply post what Pokemon you're trying and your fresh new alt (yes, this is mandatory). Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present. There will also be an archive of the successful teams who managed to break the ladder benchmarks. The archive will consist of the teams used along with the rating achieved by the said team and some comments for the user who built the team. Teams which displayed a significant amount of creativity but fell short of the points cutoff may also be featured in the archive. This will be decided on subjectively by the Uber moderators. Furthermore, quality posting may be rewarded with larger avatars or custom titles. So get out and post! alt list Furai - Brute / Mirage TrollFreak - Uber Troll Tomahawk9 - 3PAC dragonboy52 - MenceSala Poppy - poppyisadumbowithoutPO Keiran - SuperSaiyanKeiran Fiction. - amaryllis / el che / switchback Zeto Tarken - Dr. Pokemon locoghoul - Nadalsucks Splenidferous - Tebemono Emanresu - illustrious illusion barry4ever - bcact / too hate NTT - Viva la Gofre / Soy el Gofre shrang - EspyJUMP jackm - Jamm jonathanrp - JRP Research Week Hall of Fame Gold Class: 1350+ 1. Splendiferous: #11 - 2/4/2012 - 1351 [][][][][][] 2. Fiction.: #9 - 8/4/2012 - 1416 [][][][][][] Silver Class: 1300-1349 1. Fiction.: #17 - 2/4/2012 - 1316 [][][][][][] 2. locoghoul: #16 - 2/4/2012 - 1312 [][][][][][] 3. NTT: #16 - 3/4/2012 - 1335 [][][][][][] 4. barry4ever: #19 - 4/4/2012 - 1320 [][][][][][] Bronze Class: 1250-1299 1. jonathanrp: #39 - 4/4/2012 - 1250 [][][][][][] __________________ *#gohard* \| Wolfpack (Ubers RMT) Last edited by Furai; Apr 20th, 2012 at 6:57:55 AM.

Mar 29th, 2012, 12:05:00 PM	#3
Tomahawk9 Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,439	okay so espeon sucks but ill try deoxys-d. account name: 3PAC __________________ C&C Work \| Smog Work

Mar 29th, 2012, 12:38:33 PM	#5
Poppy SYMPTOMATIC OF A GREATER ILL Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,421 brisbane	I'll be working with all 3. No alts as I can't play on PO, only PS. Will be updating this post alter with some results :). __________________ erotically erudite

Mar 29th, 2012, 12:40:44 PM	#6
Keiran Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 442 memory is ram	I think I'll try a HO-esque team with both Salamence and Deoxys-D. Alt: SuperSaiyanKeiran i need to stop using up my good alts __________________ http://i.imgur.com/V3gVE.png http://i.imgur.com/DtPw4.png

Mar 29th, 2012, 1:04:31 PM	#7
Fiction. the king Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 305 Limousin, France	Going to try Salamence out I think. Alt: amaryllis also going to try out deo-d under the name el che __________________ Last edited by Fiction.; Mar 31st, 2012 at 11:53:17 AM.

Mar 29th, 2012, 11:50:04 AM	#2
TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,249 New York born, New York proud	Trying Salamence alt- Uber Troll __________________ Work Ever wanted to contribute to Smogon? Visit the Contributions and Corrections forum! ~SNOVERS~

Mar 29th, 2012, 12:08:23 PM	#4
dragonboy52 Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,964	Trying Salamence Alt: MenceSala

Mar 29th, 2012, 3:13:56 PM	#8
SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 558	Trying Salamence. EDIT: Just lost a 213 turn game with Salamence. Fuck him. Fuck Pokemon. __________________ C&C The Smog I <3 the Stone Roses Last edited by SkullCandy; Mar 29th, 2012 at 4:05:40 PM.

Mar 29th, 2012, 3:51:44 PM	#9
ZetoTarken Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 226 secret	Testing Mence Alt: Dr. Pokemon __________________ <Witty comment here>

Mar 29th, 2012, 5:34:18 PM	#10
locoghoul Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 674 Charlotte	trying Espeon. alt: Nadalsucks __________________ Ubers RMT Corona Blast! Girotina's Revenge Here comes the Sun

Mar 29th, 2012, 10:48:50 PM	#12
Splendiferous Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 94	I'll try salamence as Tabemono

Mar 29th, 2012, 10:58:45 PM	#13
Emanresu Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 14	will be using the alt: illustrious illusion. Salamence should work well side by side with rayquaza. __________________ But we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster. -Glados

Mar 30th, 2012, 8:22:27 AM	#15
NTT Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 219	I'll be using Mence. Alt: Viva la Gofre __________________ DW OU: Peaked #2 Ubers Research Week HoF: Silver (1335)

Apr 1st, 2012, 5:48:24 AM	#16
Furai standing in the eye of the hurricane Moderator Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,098	Okay, let's spark discussion up. Salamence There's the Mence! Salamence's greatest quality for me is its brute force once it has used Dragon Dance. Being faster than Rayquaza meaning it has a bigger chance of sweeping. Pairing it with Rayquaza is just as good as it has been before, weakening the foe's team before the other sweeps. Now with V-create it would get even more brutal. But the set that attracted you guys is Choice Scarf. It's without a doubt a remarkable set, utilizing Salamence's newly introduced Moxie ability and great Speed to sweep. When I wrote this set in Salamence's analysis, QC members rushed to reject it. Once they have tested it, they were shocked of its effectiveness. The ability to revenge fast-paced sweepers such as Shaymin-S, Darkrai, and Mewtwo is just great, and add to that the Moxie boost. With Spikes on the ground it is very hard to stop Salamence once it has gathered a few Moxie boosts. Deoxys-D Big alien on campus. 160 base Defense and Special Defense is just out of this world. Shame its HP is so low... I've tried Deoxys-D once on a team Fiction. gave me, and it worked pretty great. It walls Ferrothorn and Skarmory all day every day, and makes them setup bait by using Taunt. This little fella here can take Modest Choice Scarf Kyogre's full-health rain-boosted Water Spout: Water Spout: 229-270 (75.32 - 88.81%). The only other Spiker (as in Spikes) that can stand up to this is Ferrothorn (which takes just below 50% maximum), but he makes setup bait to any other Spiker. I haven't tested the Agility set though. It looks so great. Deoxys-D is very bulky to take strong hits, and its base 90 Speed allows it to utilize Agility well. After Agility has been used the standard set outspeeds all Deoxys-S bar Choice Scarf, and the 228 Speed spread outspeeds all base 130s with Choice Scarf attached, such as Mewtwo, Shaymin-S, and Darkrai. Couple that with Toxic, Taunt, and Recover, along with its already high defenses, and you got yourself a prime fast staller. Espeon This is Xatu's "offensive" variant. Base 130 Special Attack and 110 Speed makes it a decent sweeper. It's faster than most Ubers and it has a nice STAB move in Psychic or Psyshock. I honestly prefer Psyshock because fuck Chansey. Acess to Calm Mind is also pretty great, as with its already respectable base 95 Special Defense, Espeon can now take hits even better. For example, Modest 252 SpA Dialga does 68.56% maximum to a +1 252 HP Espeon. However, Espeon's Magic Bounce ability is what makes it so appealing. It basically messes Stall up. Switch into a Spiker such as Skarmory, get the Spikes bounced back, and set up or something. Skarmory can't do anything to Espeon, as most don't run Brave Bird. What I'm going to try is Dual Screens + Baton Pass. It's like the ideal partner for Salamence; it gets hazards off the field, it can set up screens for Salamence to set up safely, and it can send it in safely with Baton Pass. Pretty much a safe option, eh? Comment and add on any Pokemon, happy discussing~ __________________ *#gohard* \| Wolfpack (Ubers RMT)

Apr 1st, 2012, 1:25:49 PM	#17
Emanresu Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 14	from my testing so far this week, I found Salamence to be very underwhelming in almost every position I put him in. Choice Band, Choice scarf, bulky dragon dance, offensive dragon dance, in every role he seemed like just dead weight. His problems are either that he is too weak, not gaining necessary KOes, or that he would die to anything that hit him. __________________ But we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster. -Glados

Apr 2nd, 2012, 4:59:21 AM	#20
Tomahawk9 Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,439	I have been finding Deoxys-D rather underwelming. I've been using a simple 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD EV spread with Recover / Spikes / Taunt / Magic Coat (which I later replaced with Night Shade / Seismic Toss) and while it's pretty good at setting up Spikes, that's pretty much it. Other than that it is pretty much setup bait for any sweeper that can outspeed and set up on Deoxys-D before the Taunt. The things you can set up on are also mostly other Spikers, and since you have to Taunt them to prevent them from setting up Spikes themselves, they can switch to a counter that turn and you're forced out. __________________ C&C Work \| Smog Work

Apr 2nd, 2012, 7:40:57 AM	#22
Tomahawk9 Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,439	gonna go ahead and try espeon with the alt espeon sucks __________________ C&C Work \| Smog Work

Apr 2nd, 2012, 7:58:20 AM	#23
Poppy SYMPTOMATIC OF A GREATER ILL Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,421 brisbane	GOT ESPEON TO WORK ... loler joined. Poppy joined. Format: Ubers Rated battle Rule: Sleep Clause Rule: Species Clause Poppy's team: Espeon / Groudon / Arceus-Dragon / Skarmory / Victini / Giratina loler's team: Reshiram / Groudon / Ho-Oh / Dialga / Forretress / Giratina-O Inactive players will forfeit in 120 seconds. (requested by Poppy) The restart or kick was interrupted by activity. Battle between loler and Poppy started! loler sent out Reshiram! Poppy sent out Groudon! Reshiram has Turboblaze. (placeholder) Groudon's Drought intensified the sun's rays! Turn 1 loler: oops I dont know that i hav started a battle lol Poppy called Groudon back! Poppy sent out Giratina! loler called Reshiram back! loler sent out Spikes (Giratina-O)! Giratina has Pressure. (placeholder) The sunlight is strong! Turn 2 Giratina used Will-O-Wisp! The foe's Spikes was burned! The foe's Spikes used Dragon Tail! It's super-effective! Giratina lost 17% of its health! Skarmory was dragged out! The sunlight is strong! The foe's Spikes is hurt by its burn! Turn 3 loler called Spikes back! loler sent out KFC (Ho-Oh)! KFC has Pressure. (placeholder) Skarmory used Pointy Spiky Things! Spikes were scattered all around the feet of loler's team! The sunlight is strong! Turn 4 Poppy called Skarmory back! Poppy sent out Giratina! Giratina has Pressure. (placeholder) The foe's KFC used Sacred Fire! [DEBUG] Sunny Day fire boost. It's not very effective... Giratina lost 24% of its health! Giratina was burned! The sunlight is strong! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Giratina is hurt by its burn! Turn 5 Poppy called Giratina back! Poppy sent out Groudon! The foe's KFC used Play With Dolls! The foe's KFC made a substitute! The sunlight is strong! The foe's KFC restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 6 Poppy called Groudon back! Poppy sent out Giratina! Giratina has Pressure. (placeholder) The foe's KFC used Brave Bird! Giratina lost 37% of its health! The foe's KFC is hit with recoil! The sunlight is strong! The foe's KFC restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Giratina is hurt by its burn! Turn 7 Giratina used Rest! Giratina fell asleep! Giratina went to sleep and became healthy! The foe's KFC used Sacred Fire! [DEBUG] Sunny Day fire boost. It's not very effective... Giratina lost 25% of its health! The sunlight is strong! The foe's KFC restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 8 Giratina is fast asleep! Giratina used Sleep Talk! Giratina used Rest! But it failed! The foe's KFC used Brave Bird! Giratina lost 41% of its health! The foe's KFC is hit with recoil! The sunlight is strong! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! The foe's KFC restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 9 Giratina is fast asleep! Giratina used Sleep Talk! Giratina used FUS ROAR DAH! Specs-tress (Forretress) was dragged out! The foe's Specs-tress is hurt by spikes! The sunlight is strong! The foe's Specs-tress restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 10 Poppy called Giratina back! Poppy sent out Espeon! The foe's Specs-tress used Poisoned Spiky Things! The foe's Specs-tress's Poisoned Spiky Things was bounced back by Magic Bounce! Poison spikes were scattered all around the feet of loler's team! The sunlight is strong! The foe's Specs-tress restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 11 Espeon used Baton Pass! Poppy called Espeon back! Poppy sent out Giratina! Giratina has Pressure. (placeholder) The foe's Specs-tress used ♫Spin Me Right 'Round♫! [DEBUG] natural immunity. It had no effect! The sunlight is strong! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 12 Giratina is fast asleep! Giratina used Sleep Talk! Giratina used Will-O-Wisp! The foe's Specs-tress was burned! The foe's Specs-tress used Toxic! Giratina is already asleep. The sunlight is strong! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! The foe's Specs-tress is hurt by its burn! Turn 13 loler: ** loler called Specs-tress back! loler sent out Spikes (Giratina-O)! [DEBUG] artificial immunity. [DEBUG] artificial immunity. Giratina is fast asleep! Giratina used Sleep Talk! Giratina used FUS ROAR DAH! DIE ALL-ga (Dialga) was dragged out! The foe's DIE ALL-ga is hurt by spikes! [DEBUG] natural immunity. DIE ALL-ga has Pressure. (placeholder) The sunlight is strong! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 14 Poppy called Giratina back! Poppy sent out Skarmory! The foe's DIE ALL-ga used Dragon Pulse! It's not very effective... Skarmory lost 27% of its health! The sunlight is strong! Skarmory restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 15 The foe's DIE ALL-ga used Dragon Pulse! It's not very effective... Skarmory lost 29% of its health! Skarmory used Whirlwind! Specs-tress (Forretress) was dragged out! The foe's Specs-tress is hurt by spikes! [DEBUG] natural immunity. The sunlight is strong! Skarmory restored a little HP using its Leftovers! The foe's Specs-tress restored a little HP using its Leftovers! The foe's Specs-tress is hurt by its burn! Turn 16 Inactive players will forfeit in 180 seconds. (requested by loler) The restart or kick was interrupted by activity. Poppy called Skarmory back! Poppy sent out Giratina! Giratina has Pressure. (placeholder) The foe's Specs-tress used ♫Spin Me Right 'Round♫! [DEBUG] natural immunity. It had no effect! The sunlight is strong! The foe's Specs-tress restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! The foe's Specs-tress is hurt by its burn! Turn 17 loler called Specs-tress back! loler sent out KFC (Ho-Oh)! [DEBUG] natural immunity. [DEBUG] natural immunity. KFC has Pressure. (placeholder) Giratina is fast asleep! Giratina used Sleep Talk! Giratina used Will-O-Wisp! [DEBUG] natural immunity. [DEBUG] immune to status. The sunlight is strong! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! The foe's KFC restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 18 Giratina is fast asleep! Giratina used Sleep Talk! Giratina used Rest! But it failed! The foe's KFC used Play With Dolls! The foe's KFC made a substitute! The sunlight is strong! The foe's KFC restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 19 The foe's KFC used Roost! [DEBUG] sub bypass: self hit. The foe's KFC regained health! Giratina woke up! Giratina used FUS ROAR DAH! Reshiram was dragged out! The foe's Reshiram was poisoned! The foe's Reshiram is hurt by spikes! Reshiram has Turboblaze. (placeholder) The sunlight is strong! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! The foe's Reshiram is hurt by poison! Turn 20 loler: always win the speed tie Poppy called Giratina back! Poppy sent out Skarmory! The foe's Reshiram used Draco Meteor! [DEBUG] Damage handler suppressed by Mold Breaker. It's not very effective... A critical hit! Skarmory lost 57% of its health! The foe's Reshiram's Special Attack sharply fell! Skarmory fainted! The sunlight is strong! The foe's Reshiram is hurt by poison! Poppy: it's not a speed tie Poppy: lol loler: so U MUST DIEEEEEEE Poppy sent out Groudon! Turn 21 The foe's Reshiram used Draco Meteor! Groudon lost 65% of its health! The foe's Reshiram's Special Attack sharply fell! Groudon used Rocks In Awkward Places! Pointed stones float in the air around loler's team! The sunlight is strong! The foe's Reshiram is hurt by poison! Turn 22 Poppy called Groudon back! Poppy sent out Espeon! The foe's Reshiram used Draco Meteor! The attack of the foe's Reshiram missed! The sunlight is strong! The foe's Reshiram is hurt by poison! Turn 23 loler called Reshiram back! loler sent out KFC (Ho-Oh)! [DEBUG] natural immunity. [DEBUG] natural immunity. Pointed stones dug into the foe's KFC! KFC has Pressure. (placeholder) Espeon used Calm Mind! Espeon's Special Attack rose! Espeon's Special Defense rose! The sunlight is strong! The foe's KFC restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 24 Espeon used Baton Pass! Poppy called Espeon back! Poppy sent out Groudon! The foe's KFC used Play With Dolls! The foe's KFC made a substitute! The sunlight is strong! The foe's KFC restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 25 Poppy called Groudon back! Poppy sent out Giratina! Giratina has Pressure. (placeholder) The foe's KFC used Roost! [DEBUG] sub bypass: self hit. The foe's KFC regained health! The sunlight is strong! The foe's KFC restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 26 The foe's KFC used Sacred Fire! [DEBUG] Sunny Day fire boost. It's not very effective... Giratina lost 23% of its health! Giratina was burned! Giratina used FUS ROAR DAH! Reshiram was dragged out! The foe's Reshiram is hurt by spikes! Pointed stones dug into the foe's Reshiram! Reshiram has Turboblaze. (placeholder) The sunlight is strong! Giratina restored a little HP using its Leftovers! The foe's Reshiram is hurt by poison! Giratina is hurt by its burn! The foe's Reshiram fainted! loler: HOLY ** loler sent out DIE ALL-ga (Dialga)! [DEBUG] natural immunity. The foe's DIE ALL-ga is hurt by spikes! Pointed stones dug into the foe's DIE ALL-ga! DIE ALL-ga has Pressure. (placeholder) Turn 27 Poppy: what Poppy called Giratina back! Poppy sent out Espeon! The foe's DIE ALL-ga used Dragon Pulse! Espeon lost 54% of its health! The sunlight is strong! Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 28 Espeon used Calm Mind! Espeon's Special Attack rose! Espeon's Special Defense rose! The foe's DIE ALL-ga used Dragon Pulse! Espeon lost 39% of its health! The sunlight is strong! Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 29 Espeon used Morning Sun! Espeon regained health! The foe's DIE ALL-ga used Dragon Pulse! Espeon lost 38% of its health! The sunlight is strong! Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 30 Espeon used Calm Mind! Espeon's Special Attack rose! Espeon's Special Defense rose! The foe's DIE ALL-ga used Dragon Pulse! Espeon lost 30% of its health! The sunlight is strong! Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 31 Espeon used Morning Sun! Espeon regained health! The foe's DIE ALL-ga used Dragon Pulse! Espeon lost 29% of its health! The sunlight is strong! Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 32 loler called DIE ALL-ga back! loler sent out Specs-tress (Forretress)! The foe's Specs-tress is hurt by spikes! [DEBUG] natural immunity. Pointed stones dug into the foe's Specs-tress! Espeon used Calm Mind! Espeon's Special Attack rose! Espeon's Special Defense rose! The sunlight is strong! The foe's Specs-tress restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! The foe's Specs-tress is hurt by its burn! Turn 33 Espeon used Stored Power! It's not very effective... The foe's Specs-tress lost 32% of its health! The foe's Specs-tress fainted! The sunlight is strong! Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! loler sent out Spikes (Giratina-O)! [DEBUG] artificial immunity. Pointed stones dug into the foe's Spikes! [DEBUG] artificial immunity. Turn 34 The foe's Spikes used Shadow Sneak! It's super-effective! Espeon lost 23% of its health! Espeon used Stored Power! A critical hit! The foe's Spikes lost 75% of its health! The foe's Spikes fainted! The sunlight is strong! Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! loler sent out Ground u!! (Groudon)! Pointed stones dug into the foe's Ground u!!! The foe's Ground u!! is hurt by spikes! The foe's Ground u!! was poisoned! Turn 35 Espeon used Stored Power! The foe's Ground u!! lost 81% of its health! The foe's Ground u!! fainted! The sunlight is strong! Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Poppy: beautiful loler sent out DIE ALL-ga (Dialga)! [DEBUG] natural immunity. The foe's DIE ALL-ga is hurt by spikes! Pointed stones dug into the foe's DIE ALL-ga! DIE ALL-ga has Pressure. (placeholder) Turn 36 Inactive players will forfeit in 150 seconds. (requested by Poppy) loler: I shouldnt hav admited that battle... I hav qiutted searching for a battle The restart or kick was interrupted by activity. Espeon used Calm Mind! Espeon's Special Attack rose! Espeon's Special Defense rose! The foe's DIE ALL-ga used Relocate To Australia! The foe's DIE ALL-ga twisted the dimensions! The sunlight is strong! Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 37 The foe's DIE ALL-ga used Dragon Pulse! Espeon lost 18% of its health! Espeon used Calm Mind! Espeon's Special Attack rose! Espeon's Special Defense rose! The sunlight is strong! Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 38 The foe's DIE ALL-ga used Dragon Pulse! Espeon lost 16% of its health! Espeon used Calm Mind! Espeon's Special Attack rose! Espeon's Special Defense rose! The sunlight is strong! Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Turn 39 The foe's DIE ALL-ga used Dragon Pulse! Espeon lost 15% of its health! Espeon used Morning Sun! Espeon regained health! The sunlight is strong! Turn 40 The foe's DIE ALL-ga used Dragon Pulse! Espeon lost 15% of its health! Espeon used Stored Power! It's not very effective... The foe's DIE ALL-ga lost 50% of its health! The foe's DIE ALL-ga fainted! The sunlight is strong! Espeon restored a little HP using its Leftovers! The twisted dimensions returned to normal! loler sent out KFC (Ho-Oh)! Pointed stones dug into the foe's KFC! [DEBUG] natural immunity. [DEBUG] natural immunity. KFC has Pressure. (placeholder) Turn 41 Espeon used Stored Power! The foe's KFC lost 45% of its health! The foe's KFC fainted! Poppy won the battle __________________ erotically erudite

Apr 2nd, 2012, 10:46:12 AM	#24
NTT Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 219	Just broke the 1200 mark before being knocked down by hax, I hate Lugia. Will hopefully hit 1250 sometime tonight. I really couldn't get the old pairing of two Dragon Dancers to work, it doesn't seem half as viable this gen from what I've played. I've taken Furai's suggestion of the Scarf+Moxie and that's been working great so far. The team I'm using is changing quite a bit and I'm still not 100% about what lineup works best or utilises Mence's qualities the most yet, so I'll post more if/when I hit bronze. EDIT: I've just seen bronze is 1200-1250, not 1250+, fuuuuu. Need to pay moar attention. __________________ DW OU: Peaked #2 Ubers Research Week HoF: Silver (1335)

Apr 2nd, 2012, 1:02:17 PM	#25
Fiction. the king Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 305 Limousin, France	... barry pretty much sums up my thoughts up on Scarf Moxie Salamence. While underwhelming at certain times (like not OHKOing full HP Zekrom), it has saved me on a number of occasions and is an effective cleaner for the end game. The team I used had Rayquaza to lure Pokes like Groudon in so it can take a Draco Meteor and get OHKO'd (switching Groudon isn't the wisest thing to do anyway unless you're certain it's not Mixed). Then I've been testing other Pokes like Dialga, Darkrai and a couple of others, which kind of explains my current rating of only 1212. also NTT I think the bronze class actually is 1250, Furai said it was in the challenge description then put 1200-1249 in the HoF thing so I don't know. __________________