Balanced Hackmons

[Asbestospoison]

Originally Posted by Fat Master of the Six Kings

Are unreleased mons allowed like Genesect, Keldo and Meloetta?

This tier seems really interesting. Building a team right now. Lots of ideas. =D

I'm pretty sure they are. I need to make a team for this, now.

[verbatim]

Originally Posted by Fat ThePillsburyDoughBoy

Substitute is really useful in the metagame since it makes all the big 2HKO's into 3HKO's. I've been using this set to great success:

Lugia@Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
Timid Nature; everything maxed out
-Spore
-Substitute
-Taunt
-Baton Pass

Lugia was chosen over Blissey because of his incredible base 110 speed. Bring this guy in on something that doesn't have Magic Bounce,Spore, and Pass one of the beefist Substitutes in the game. Shadow Tag insures they won't switch to a Magic Bounce user or someone who can take hits. If you're lucky enough they will still be asleep when you pass. Pass to a hard hitter and something that resists to Extremespeed. My preference is Skill Link Terrakion w/ Shift Gear :O

Interesting set, however one should note that in hackmons, Lugia is perfectly capable of sweeping by itself.


Lugia@Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
Timid Nature; everything maxed out
-Substitute
-Quiver Dance
-Stored Power
-Recover

The big draw this has over other stat ups is that it can beat Imposter Bliss through the use of Substitute prior to a switch in. Blissey is a HUGE threat in this metagame, to the point that I run a grand total of zero stat boosting moves on my team and run a Slaking with a moveset crafted so that it can be walled by my Giratina should Blissey steal its set.

Originally Posted by Fat Master of the Six Kings

Are unreleased mons allowed like Genesect, Keldo and Meloetta?

This tier seems really interesting. Building a team right now. Lots of ideas. =D

Seeing as you'd already be doing basic hacks to get say Imposter Blissey in a real game, adding in items/pokemon that are in the source code but not in the game legally are allowed. Our currently policy is that you can do anything thats not Wonder Guard/OHKO moves, even if its a bug in PS.

[jamashawalker]

This is possibly the most fun tier I have ever played! the possibilities are endless! you can literally do anything you want! I am a little irritated how shedinja is literally DEATH in this metagame. Its way more centralizing than alot of things in other metagames

[The QWAZ]

Huge power deo-a with belly drum could work
Switch on somthing it forces out belly drum on the switch and kill errythang

[Asbestospoison]

I've been having decent success with Huge Power Flying Gem Acrobatics Archeops. Still Frail though.

[Arcticblast]

QWAZ, if the opponent is packing Extremespeed, you're doomed. Especially if it's something that normally doesn't use the move.

[DTC]

Well Arcticblast, the Deo-A will probably be using ExtremeSpeed. Anyways, I don't see why you'd use it over Belly Drum Slaking. Slaking has a /much/ easier time setting up thanks to actually usable bulk and has STAB ExtremeSpeed. The only thing Deo-A really has over it is a faster ExtremeSpeed.

[jamashawalker]

Regigigas/Slaking are the best Espeeders in this metagame. Pass either of them a sub with Belly Drum and its pretty much gg. Im up in the air though between mold breaker or Pure Power. Mold Breaker stops Sheddy but Pure power is just overkill?

Edit: Ninja'd

[czechm8]

Random idea
Regigigas@jolly Serene Grace
Max Evs
Substitute
Belly Drum
Sacred Fire
Extreme Speed
The sub prevents blissey's shennagins as well as aiding prediction. Serene Grace gives Sacred Fire a 100% burn rate so if blissey were to switch in for some reason you could burn it on the switch and cripple it the the rest of the match. The burn also handles sturdy shedninja since sturdy doesn't prevent passive damage. And everything physical doesn't enjoy being burnt.

[Pwnemon]

handy! I could definitely see that set working as going through the quick list the only common mon that wouldn't find it troublesome is giratina (unfortunately) but you could handle that with your team

[Lustinus]

Just got front page in Balanced Hackmons ^__^. Username is Protective mother :)
Shell Smash Sheddy is all of my love!

[Arkeis]

Such a fun tier.

I use this for all those Contrary/Simple/Baton Pass/set-up sweepers out there.

Arceus @Leftovers
Calm
Ability: Unaware
-Heart Swap
-Substitute
-Dragon Pulse
-Recover

Unaware ignores all stat boosts. Heart Swap gives you their boosts while they get nothing. It bypasses Magic Coat, Magic Bounce, and Substitute so there's really nothing that can stop it. Substitute prevents Blissey's Imposter from working and Dragon Tail can't force out a Sub. Dragon Pulse for neutral damage with the least amount of Pokemon who resist it, also more PP than Spacial Rend.

Mold Breaker can ignore Unaware, but no one uses Mold Breaker on a sweeper when there's abilities like Pure Power or Magic Bounce available.

Might use Lum Berry for Prankster Spore.

[jamashawalker]

Just made a full BP team with the shadow taggers as the BPers and man its pretty amazing. Sub on everything, one poke with SR. The Match is pretty much determined by the opponents lead. If they dont have a counter its an auto-GG. The only thing i can see stopping it is a magic guard Focus sash, which i hvent ran into at all yet :)

[Cobraroll]

Could this one work in/to counter Trick Room? The idea is purely based on theorymon late at night from an inexperienced player, but still...

Rampardos @ Focus Sash:
Ability: Sand Stream
No EVs or IVs in HP, Def or Sp.Def.
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavour
- Whatever
- Whatever

Come in on anything, which expects a powerful attack. If Trick Room is active, set up Rocks while the enemy attacks. You're ideally brought down to 1 HP, because Rampardos is a glass cannon. Endeavour on the next turn, sandstorm should take care of the rest (and if the foe switches, the Rocks will do the job should the weather change). Even better if the foe switches out as you Rock, because then you can put up Spikes or Toxic Spikes or something while waiting for your turn to strike. This also knocks flat any attempts at bringing a Shedinja to the table.
If Trick Room is not active, you'll be outsped anyway. Then just use Endeavour on the foe expecting a Head Smash or something equally ridiculous. Sandstorm should KO.

I guess the general idea is to do something the foe wouldn't expect. Use a Pokémon typically renowned for something else, and when your foe thinks he has predicted what will happen, strike from a totally different angle. In this case, you're doing a FEAR Rampardos, which also coincidentally fits with the acronym.

Might also work well for Snow Warning Mamoswine or Weavile as few Pokémon are prepared for hail, but their higher defenses might mean that you won't be sashed or they might end up on the wrong side of the Speed tie. On the other hand, once Endeavour has hit and the foe has realized what's going on, he has lost his Pokémon. No priority can save him, because the last HP of damage is dealt at the end of the turn, which should be immediately after the attack is executed, given that everything goes according to plan.

Condensed idea: Endeavour last in the turn, weather takes care of the kill.

[verbatim]

Originally Posted by Fat czechm8

Random idea
Regigigas@jolly Serene Grace
Max Evs
Substitute
Belly Drum
Sacred Fire
Extreme Speed
The sub prevents blissey's shennagins as well as aiding prediction. Serene Grace gives Sacred Fire a 100% burn rate so if blissey were to switch in for some reason you could burn it on the switch and cripple it the the rest of the match. The burn also handles sturdy shedninja since sturdy doesn't prevent passive damage. And everything physical doesn't enjoy being burnt.

Looks interesting, but I'm a bit dubious of running Substitute and Belly Drum on the same pokemon. Sacred Fire+ Serene Grace may sound cool, but if you switch it out for Pure Power and Shadow Sneak, you can OHKO Giratina after a Belly Drum, a situation you'd be much more likely to run into than Blissey switching into you in the middle of a battle (they tend to revenge kill).

Originally Posted by Fat aragornbird

Such a fun tier.

I use this for all those Contrary/Simple/Baton Pass/set-up sweepers out there.

Arceus @Leftovers
Calm
Ability: Unaware
-Heart Swap
-Substitute
-Dragon Pulse
-Recover

Unaware ignores all stat boosts. Heart Swap gives you their boosts while they get nothing. It bypasses Magic Coat, Magic Bounce, and Substitute so there's really nothing that can stop it. Substitute prevents Blissey's Imposter from working and Dragon Tail can't force out a Sub. Dragon Pulse for neutral damage with the least amount of Pokemon who resist it, also more PP than Spacial Rend.

Mold Breaker can ignore Unaware, but no one uses Mold Breaker on a sweeper when there's abilities like Pure Power or Magic Bounce available.

Might use Lum Berry for Prankster Spore.

People should listen to Aragorn Bird, he's pretty much the inventor of Shadow Tag Perish Trap Giratina, a VERY effective technique when you want something taken care of.


Also, what was you're Jirachi running in our last battle?

[DarkBlazeR]

@Cobraroll: Shedinja with Sturdy is a far superior abuser of the F.E.A.R. strategy.

Anyway... I've found this Mewtwo set rather amusing to use:



Mewtwo @ White Herb
Trait: Simple
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Aura Sphere
- Magic Coat

Absolutely nothing can stand assaults from this after a Simple Shell Smash has netted. I believe Stored Power gets 260 BP from the boosts; to put that in perspective, absolutely everything that isn't immune or has a x4 resistance to Psychic will be OHKOd. Aura Sphere deals with said threats. Magic Coat gives me protection from all the Prankster Spore users that are floating around. The only things that really bother this are Shedinja and Blissey. Shedinja can be quite easily dealt with by a layer of hazards, whereas Blissey is quite a solid check with its Choice Scarf Imposter set. I guess you just really need to be careful with it and not set up Mewtwo until the enemy's Blissey is dead, asleep or at least you have been passed a Sub.

[Cobraroll]

The thing is; people would be prepared for Shedinja. When Shedinja enters, anti-F.E.A.R. measures are activated. Rampardos can strike totally out of the blue, if only once. Still dies to entry hazards, though.

[DarkBlazeR]

Surely Rampardos would be better off immediately killing stuff with an offensive set with an ability like Pure Power or Speed Boost, though?

[Arcticblast]

It's outclassed in that role by Slaking. Despite having STAB Head Smash and 5 more Attack, Slaking's bulk and STAB Extremespeed make it the superior option.

[Iceydude168]

I've been playing the tier a lot and I love it!

Unreleased mons are allowed.

Anyways, one of the most popular sets I've been seeing is the:

Deoxys-S @ Lum Berry
Trait: Mold Breaker
-Spore
-Stealth Rock
-Taunt
-U-Turn

This thing is EVERYWHERE as a lead, it's best you carry a Magic Coater (Magic Bounce doesn't work) to try and counter this.

Another popular set is the:
Giratina @ Lum Berry
Trait: Prankster
-Roar
-Copycat
-Spore
-Roost

The idea is pretty simple. Put up some hazards and send in this dude. Spore something to incapacitate, then Roar + Prankster Copycat to start wearing down their health. If you don't have a Magic Bouncer/Coater it's pretty much GG. Something important to note is that there is no Sleep clause.

AND THE ANNOYING-AS-HELL SHEDINJA
Shedinja @ Lum Berry
Trait: Sturdy
-Endeavor
-Ice Shard/Extremespeed
-Magic Coat
-Filler (I sometimes use Foresight if I can predict a Giratina/Gengar switch)

Idea is pretty simple. Use Endeavor to lower their health to 1, use priority to finish them off. Magic Coat is cool because it reflects status and stuff like Stealth Rock. Last move is filler.

Aeo's famous BuffDisruption Groudon:
Groudon @ Lum Berry/Focus Sash
Trait: Prankster
-Nature Power (Earthquake)
-Heart Swap
-Baton Pass
-Stored Power

Awesome for random contrary Pokemon (like the Psycho Boost Mewtwo listed before, V-Create Reshiram) that otherwise can sweep a team. +1 priority Heart Swap gives you their boosts, have fun getting a free Shell Smash off random stuff and Baton Passing it away. Stored Power if you get lucky and nab a huge boost payload, lets you sweep their team if it's slow enough.

[DTC]

I've been seeing a lot less Deo-S lately. In fact, the leads in Hackmons seem to be diversifying, which is a good thing. At one point Deo-S was pretty much on every team as a lead.

This Deo-S is a very good anti-lead against other Deo-S and Jirachi:

@ Lum Berry
Trait: Mold Breaker
Jolly nature
-Imprison
-Spore
-Magic Coat
-Stealth Rock / Spikes

Most leads use the same few moves, so this Deoxys-S can get rid of them with Imprison. It's so easy to get a bunch of hazards with this, just beware of leads such as Shadow Tag boosting Pokemon with Sub as they basically just use you for set-up bait. :(

Imprison is a pretty interesting move in general for leads in Hackmons. I'm thinking about using some kind of Shedinja with Imprison / Spikes / Spore / Magic Coat or something like that. It could be very frustrating. Only problem is I'm not sure what 4 moves to use on it! I want it to be able to set-up a bunch of hazards, cripple opposing Pokemon and also be very hard to kill.

[Zarel*]

Originally Posted by Fat Iceydude168

Aeo's famous BuffDisruption Groudon:
Groudon @ Lum Berry/Focus Sash
Trait: Prankster
-Nature Power (Earthquake)
-Heart Swap
-Baton Pass
-Stored Power

For reference, my actual Groudon (importable) is

Paradigm Shift (Groudon) @ Leftovers
Trait: Prankster
- Nature Power
- Heart Swap
- Baton Pass
- Substitute

It's funny seeing someone use a 20 bp Stored Power since they weren't expecting Prankster. I'd recommend putting Prankster Heart Swap on something else, btw, like Arceus, because otherwise Groudon usage is gonna skyrocket and Groudon Heart Swap is gonna be really predictable.

DTC already posted my lead Deo-S's set, so I won't post that, but.

I used to run a Shell Smash Shedinja. My team had a Sub passer, and I've never been fond of FEAR, anyway:

Exit Strategy (Shedinja) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Sturdy
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Attack Order
- Magic Coat

Incidentally, Attack Order is one of the few non-contact physical moves, so I have no idea why Iron Barbs is even viable. Rocky Helmet outclasses, anyway - the best abilities are far more powerful than the best items: compare Choice Band and Pure Power.

And for completeness' sake, the Sub passer who's quite good at sweeping on its own:

Synergy (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Substitute
- Baton Pass

[iss]

True story: Hackmons came from a battle between aesoft and I. He hadn't disallowed illegal moves/abilities on ladder yet, so I 6-0ed him with Tail Glow Drought Celebi. The game's come quite far since then, but this is real.

[Imanalt]

i just would like to point out that vs the top level players, contrary is very mediocre. Things like sturdy shedinja, imposter bliss and prankster spore find their way onto good teams, giving contrary pokes hell.

Also, Magic coat is possibly the best move in the tier, as it utterly destroys teams abusing hazards and phazing, and the increase in usage of magic coat is (imo) the main factor for the recent shift from a stall oriented meta to bulky offense.

When you're building a team for hackmons, you want to remember several things:
1. When choosing the poke, all that matters is the base stats and the type, since anything can run the same item, moves, ability. This being said, it means that giratina is the most common bulky poke, and slaking is the most common attacker (slaking > regigigas because of greater physical bulk, and physical attacks are much more common than special in hackmons)
2. All teams need at least 1 imposter blissey, and at least 1 magic bouncer. Without these two things you will either be at the mercy of stat up sweepers or stall respectively.
3. On most every poke, Lum berry is the preferred item, as spore and toxic spikes are very common.


Now onto some common sets for the list:
Sturdinja:
Shedinja@lum berry
Ability: Sturdy
- Endeavor
- Magic coat/Taunt
- Extremespeed/Shadow sneak/Ice Shard
- Most anything can go in this spot, i have seen a secondary priority move to pair with espeed, whirlwind, taunt, and several other support moves.

Prioriphazer
Giratina/Lugia@lum berry/leftovers
Ability: Prankster
- Spore
- Whirlwind
- Copycat
- Stealth rock/dragon tail/gastro acid/Magic Coat


Finally, i have a set i have been using to great success that has not yet become a standard to suggest:
Giratina@Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
- Rest
- Sleep talk
- Coil
- Dragon Tail
This set NEEDS hazard support, and appreciates somethign that can set up on and/or eliminate opposing scarf blissey. But this thing is nearly impossible to kill, essentially the only thing that can muscle through it as it sets up is huge power slaking crunch. Rest/talk allows you to defeat opposing mold breaker spore, as well as dealing with toxic spikes, making it preferred over Recover + a filler.

[Agent Gibbs]

Originally Posted by Fat Iceydude168

Another popular set is the:
Giratina @ Lum Berry
Trait: Prankster
-Roar
-Copycat
-Spore
-Roost

I was considering trying out Hackmons with a set like this, but I was wondering. Does Dragon Tail + Copycat work like Roar + Copycat does? If it does, I'm considering running that on Giratina, but I had a feeling that it wouldn't work since so many people run Roar/Whirlwind instead.