My first attempt at Volt Turn

[zachmac]

Looks like I made a typos in the polls...is there a way to fix that? Seems like every time I come here I do something to embarrass myself.

Originally Posted by Fat jle1076 on Serebii

Volt turn, dragmag and skarmbliss? Lol you crammed the main OU strategies from the past 5 years into one team

Well, it's been more then a year since I was actually active here. Some of you may recognize me, but I seriously hope you don't. And why do I not want anyone to recognize me? Because I used a Choice Band Ninjask. If you don't get what I mean by that, you shouldn't be rating teams. After a while, I found myself forgetting about this account and moved to Serebii forums. While most of the good players go to Smogon, I prefer the smaller competitive community back at Serebii. I joined a clan there known as the Battling Academy, dedicated to helper players improve. It worked. While I'm not going to end up in the top 10 anytime soon, I managed to peak at 105 on smogon's OU ladder using "the n00b's toy", Zoroark, and would made it to the top 100 if it weren't for a little hax in the next battle.

Now that my biography is over with, let's get to the team itself. We all know what Volt Turn is, right? Well, that strategy has caught my eye. I've already had this team rated on Serebii to get it started, so now, I just want it rated by the all famous Smogon.


Salamence @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Att / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
My team was at a loss. I needed something to revenge kill +1 Volcarona and Dragonite/Haxorus, but also a powerful sweeper to clear things up in the late game, where all the volt turning has worn everything down. Of course, the best solution would be a pokemon with moxie, which would allow it to use the choice scarf to both sweep and revenge kill. Outrage is when my team is ready to sweep, but Dragon Claw is when I must revenge kill something and my enemy still has a steel type or ice shard somewhere in their team. Earthquake is decent coverage, and can sometimes help defeat teams that happen to be weaker to ground. Rock slide is there purely for revenge killing Volcarona, so I decided to choose accuracy over the sheer power of stone edge.

Base 100 speed isn't that bad for revenge killing either. Most Volcarona run modest natures, and it's got enough speed to outrun +1 Dragonite, Gyarados, Haxorus, Scarf Hydreigon, and adamant Salamence.


Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
Bold (+Def, -Att)
- Stealth rock
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
Very useful Volt Turn support. Stealth rock and Spikes allow it to set up hazards, which is very useful with all the swap outs Volt Turn causes. Rapid Spin remove hazards from my side of the field, which is useful considering all the swapping in my pokemon are going to be doing. Volt Switch keeps offensive momentum, and make it so I can safely swap a teammate in safely when it's done with it's job.


Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Nature Cure
EVs: 176 HP / 152 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Att)
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Recover
- U-turn
Celebi is a bulky attacker and a volt switcher. She hits tanks fighting attacks, and can handle troublesome Gastrodon with her powerful STAB. Hidden Power ice hits Dragons, who are often good Leaf Storm swap ins. Recover allows her to tank multiple hits and recover from hazards and residual damage.


Politoed @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SAtt / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Seeing that I had three pokemon weak to fire and Rotom-W, I decided this team would be able to function better if it was under the rain. Also, I needed a way to help handle sun teams. Politoed could easily counter a Ninetails and force it out with the sheer power of it's Hydro Pumps. Venasuar is no problem. In the rain, it's easily 2HKOed by Hydro Pump. Ice Beam is coverage, mostly for bulky grass types like Celebi, and Focus Blast is for Ferrothorn. Hidden Power Grass helps me to counter those annoying Gastrodons.


Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 26 HP / 252 SAtk / 228 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Trick
- Hidden Power [Ice]
The standard scarf Rotom-W. It gives my team a bulky volt turner, and also a powerful water move in Hydro Pump to help it take on threats like Landorus. Volt Switch is not only standard, but also adds on the team's strategy. Trick is handy for swap ins such as Chansy. Finally, I gave it HP ice for near perfect coverage. It may seem strange to use two choice scarfers, but I really enjoy the speed, and it can't revenge kill some pokemon Salamence can. The EVs may seem a bit weird, but they're just enough to outrun a max speed scarf Politoed and Jolteon, as there is nothing else notable to outrun after those two(that I actually care about, I mean).


Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Att, -SAtt)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit
Adding a description here is difficult. Anyone worth rating this team should recognize this and know what it's here for...Well, since the rules want me to, I'll add one anyway. This is Rotom's partner in crime. Bullet Punch for priority, U-turn for volt switching, Superpower to smack steel type and Porgyon-2, and Pursuit to trap ghost.

For the most part my fighting weakness has been fixed, I still find myself having troubles with bulk up Toxicroark. Any help with that would be appreciated.

[zachmac]

Originally Posted by Fat White Queen

CB Terrakion shits your whole team with CB Close Combat. Good luck.

I already said I need help with that. :/

If you post here, I'd prefer it if you say something actually productive. It'd be nice if people, um, I dunno, helped me come up with ideas to handle this things? Something I could swap out for something else and not hurt my team too much in the process?

[Asterat]

Just fighting types in general. Say hello to sack 5 mons then 6-0 you with BU conkeldurr. Or SD Luke/CB Terra. Use reuniclus over something

[zachmac]

I've already noticed my fighting weakness. I'm thinking swapping Rotom-W for something, but I'd still want it to be able to U-turn...Maybe I'll test Celebi for a bit and a see how it works.

[Bugdomking]

To help against Terrakion, I'd get rid of Moxie Mence in place of IntiMence. I would add a fire blast over dragon claw, for improved coverage. I prefer a DD set but you can keep the scarf.

[zachmac]

Okay, I'm going to test Scarf Celebi>Scarf Rotom. With HP ice, I wouldn't need scarf Salamence to revenge kill +1 dragons. So, I could opt out Salamence for a different sweeper that, but I'd prefer one who could handle Volcarona. I'm thinking Double Boosting Terrakion, but I'll be up for other ideas.

[GH[O]ST]

A volt turn team is nothing more than a very fluid hyper offense team. This means that it strives to achieve constant offensive domination throughout the match (brought about by always having momentum).

Having a straight up dual-wall defensive core as part of this strategy is doing you no favours - it not only kills your momentum but also takes up valuable slots that could be used for providing more offensive synergy and coverage (thereby allowing you to handle things like Scarf Terrakion). I understand if you want defensive measures to fall back on comfortably, but limit that kinda thing to all-purpose pivots (Porygon2) or typing resistances (throwing in some basic defensive synergy).

Scizor is a premier U-turner, has great synergy with Rotom W and Salamence, and provides the famous Bullet Punch (which will kill Terrakion for you). It also helps you against Reuniclus, which can set-up trick room and really screw over your team.

Jirachi and Celebi can put down SR, use U-turn, and be generally unpredictable with their vast movepools. They also have decent bulk so you won't feel the loss of your Skarmory + Blissey Combo.

A scarfed Terrakion of your own is useful in tight situations as well as sun teams.

I'm also not too sure about having Magnezone. It may help Salamence sweep, but the goal of Volt-Turn is to constantly whittle down enemy HP (in many cases so that something, such as Scarf Salamence, may clean up later on).

[zachmac]

Originally Posted by Fat GH[O]ST

A volt turn team is nothing more than a very fluid hyper offense team. This means that it strives to achieve constant offensive domination throughout the match (brought about by always having momentum).

Having a straight up dual-wall defensive core as part of this strategy is doing you no favours - it not only kills your momentum but also takes up valuable slots that could be used for providing more offensive synergy and coverage (thereby allowing you to handle things like Scarf Terrakion). I understand if you want defensive measures to fall back on comfortably, but limit that kinda thing to all-purpose pivots (Porygon2) or typing resistances (throwing in some basic defensive synergy).

Scizor is a premier U-turner, has great synergy with Rotom W and Salamence, and provides the famous Bullet Punch (which will kill Terrakion for you). It also helps you against Reuniclus, which can set-up trick room and really screw over your team.

Jirachi and Celebi can put down SR, use U-turn, and be generally unpredictable with their vast movepools. They also have decent bulk so you won't feel the loss of your Skarmory + Blissey Combo.

A scarfed Terrakion of your own is useful in tight situations as well as sun teams.

I'm also not too sure about having Magnezone. It may help Salamence sweep, but the goal of Volt-Turn is to constantly whittle down enemy HP (in many cases so that something, such as Scarf Salamence, may clean up later on).

Well, the guide I read said spikes and Blissy are both useful for Volt Turn, so I figured it'd be okay to add in a defensive core. But then again, I'm always using balanced teams, so I probably just added a defensive core because that's what I'm used to.

I'm probably going to keep Magnazone, Rotom-W, and Mienshao, but I guess I better swap out my defensive core. I'm going to use Forretress>Skamory for rapid spin and hazards, and then the rest are going to be dedicated to Volt Turning.

I'm not going to use Scizor though. I'm too stubborn for that.

[Lady Alex]

Hi, I agree with Ghost's comment about skarmbliss hurting your momentum. I think that getting rid of blissey for celebi would do your team a lot of favors. You would still have a pokemon with significant natural bulk as well as amazing defensive typing, but still maintain offensive momentum with it.

I think getting rid of mienshao for scizor would also be a huge help to your team. Scizor gives you a hard hitting u-turn as well as saving you in times when you desperately need priority. Between celebi, rotom, and scizor your terrakion problems should be greatly mitigated.

I know that magnezone's purpose is to get rid of steels for salamence to clean up, but I'm not sure that it's really necessary when the goal of volt-turn teams is to whittle down the opponent anyway, putting most threats within salamence's ko range. Would you be interested in trying gengar out as a replacement? I've used gengar on a volt-turn team and liked it quite a lot, as it allowed me to keep my hazards up and is a powerful threat to a lot of teams, especially when the opponent is having a hard time dealing with pressure. It would also help you with your lucario weakness (bar bullet punch variants). Anyway, I hope I helped and good luck with your team!

Oh, and I would personally use fireblast over dragon claw on salamence. I feel uncomfortable with skarmory being able to effortlessly switch in on anything salamence throws at it.

Originally Posted by Fat White Queen

CB Terrakion shits your whole team with CB Close Combat. Good luck.

Really? How productive -_-

[zachmac]

I know that magnezone's purpose is to get rid of steels for salamence to clean up, but I'm not sure that it's really necessary when the goal of volt-turn teams is to whittle down the opponent anyway, putting most threats within salamence's ko range. Would you be interested in trying gengar out as a replacement? I've used gengar on a volt-turn team and liked it quite a lot, as it allowed me to keep my hazards up and is a powerful threat to a lot of teams, especially when the opponent is having a hard time dealing with pressure. It would also help you with your lucario weakness (bar bullet punch variants). Anyway, I hope I helped and good luck with your team!

I'll get around to this later. I don't like making too many changes at once. I've found it to hit pretty hard and be surprisingly useful even after steel types were taken out, though I'll consider this.

I think getting rid of mienshao for scizor would also be a huge help to your team. Scizor gives you a hard hitting u-turn as well as saving you in times when you desperately need priority. Between celebi, rotom, and scizor your terrakion problems should be greatly mitigated.

I already gave into weather back at Serebii....I guess it won't be too bad if I just stick with the standard Rotom-W/Scizor core. I'll test that out while I'm at it.

[GH[O]ST]

Well, the problem I see with SkarmBliss on a Volt-Turn team is that you'll get dominated by more complete teams (over powered by Heavy Offense, overwhelmed by full-blown volt turn teams that will always have greater means of maintaining momentum in the face of your walls, and stall teams that will outlast your insufficient onslaught while ignoring your walls.)

Not using Scizor is dangerous, as it provides invaluable and powerful priority (especially against dragons and ESPECIALLY weakened Drought teams with their chlorophyll). In fact, Scizor is pretty much THE U-Turner to use and the ace of volt turn.

I also agree with Lady Alex about potentially using Gengar - I completely forgot about him lol! Gengar is a large threat with its fantastic coverage, speed, and power. It can take advantage of any momentum gained by volt turn to set up a sub and start going to town on whatever comes in. Or, you can use choice scarf and you'll have a fast as hell revenge killer with both Ghost/Fighting and Pseudo-BoltBeam coverage (HP Ice).

There are so many options for volt turn

[zachmac]

Okay, I'm almost ready to edit the first post. All I need is a check for sun teams.
So far I've got Rotom-W/Scizor/Forretress/Celebi/Salamence/Heatran, with Heatran to counter sun teams, which this team newly designed team would have problems with after testing it. I haven't tested tran on it though.

Wow, this RMT section is much more productive then Serebii's was. White Queen really got my hopes down at first.

[Lady Alex]

Originally Posted by Fat zachmac

Okay, I'm almost ready to edit the first post. All I need is a check for sun teams.
So far I've got Rotom-W/Scizor/Forretress/Celebi/Salamence/Heatran, with Heatran to counter sun teams, which this team newly designed team would have problems with after testing it. I haven't tested tran on it though.

Wow, this RMT section is much more productive then Serebii's was. White Queen really got my hopes down at first.

Quite an overhaul lol.

Don't let White Queen's comment get to you. Most of the people here are not like that and will genuinely try to help you as much as they can.

[zachmac]

Just updated the OP with my new team.

[XcRunner]

Hey, I think the team seems to be a lot better now. There is one small change that I would make still that I believe would really help the team and that is to get rid of Dark Pulse for Stealth Rock on Heatran and then replace Stealth Rock with either Gyro Ball or Toxic Spikes on Forretress. When your team relies heavily on hazards, it's probably a good idea to have more than one pokemon setting them up.
Other than that, there's not much that catches my eye to change atm. If I see more I may edit this post with some changes later.
Good luck!

[zachmac]

Originally Posted by Fat XcRunner

Hey, I think the team seems to be a lot better now. There is one small change that I would make still that I believe would really help the team and that is to get rid of Dark Pulse for Stealth Rock on Heatran and then replace Stealth Rock with either Gyro Ball or Toxic Spikes on Forretress. When your team relies heavily on hazards, it's probably a good idea to have more than one pokemon setting them up.
Other than that, there's not much that catches my eye to change atm. If I see more I may edit this post with some changes later.
Good luck!

I just swapped out Heatran for Politoed. Thanks anyway though.

Edit: Just found out I have an annoying weakness to bulk up toxicroak. :/

[_AlexiS_]

Originally Posted by Fat zachmac

I've already noticed my fighting weakness. I'm thinking swapping Rotom-W for something, but I'd still want it to be able to U-turn...Maybe I'll test Celebi for a bit and a see how it works.

Celebi is not enough for Terrakion, because against a good player, viewing Celebi, it will preict his entry making X-Sc. , once lost Celebi you will loose the match! I know that ,because I've the same problem in one of my Team I'm trying to fix.

And another thing: You have too much choice item in my opinion, you risk to be locked and let the opponent to setup!