Triple Point

I love shorts · Apr 12th, 2012, 6:20:57 PM

Triple Point: in thermodynamics, the temperature and pressure at which three states of matter can co-exist.

Welcome to my RMT. It utilizes three different types of weather in the forms of sun, rain, and sand. It is still being tweaked, but the idea so far has been relatively successful. I originally wanted to use four weather inducers, so that Abomasnow was included as well, but I found his multitude of common weaknesses to be off-putting. His weaknesses overlap with Tyranitar's, and having two Pokemon to be taken out by, say, Scizor, wasn't helpful.

Team Development:

First, the weather inducers, who are quite strong Pokemon in and of themselves when their weather is up. Ninetales for sun, Politoed for rain, and Tyranitar for sandstorm. These three formed the basis for my team, yet there was another core I needed to include to help the team as a whole function as well as possible. This second group consists of trapping Pokemon. Magnezone for trapping steels, Dugtrio for it's power, coverage, and trapping ability, and finally Wobbuffet, the glue Pokemon for the whole team. Here's how the team works.

Team Breakdown:

Super Cute @ Life Orb
[Drought] Timid Nature (+Spe -Atk)
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Flamethrower
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice or Fighting]
- Hypnosis

Summary: This Ninetales is an attacker, and is most effective when sun is out (duh). I sometimes use Fire Blast for the greater power, but after you miss at critical times, you rage back to Flamethrower, until you leave an enemy at 2% health a few times, and you rage back to Fire Blast. Anyways, Ninetales is just there to punch some holes in teams. I have considered adding Will-o-Wisp, but am okay without it so far. Hypnosis has saved me a few times, though obviously the accuracy can't be relied on. Somehow, I am more accurate with Hypnosis than I am with Fire Blast, but then again, it's RNG. That's basically it for Ninetales; hit things hard with great coverage moves. As with all of my weather inducers, I try to send them in after opposing weather inducers are dead from Wobbuffet/Dugtrio.

Ultra Cute @ Choice Specs
[Drizzle] Modest Nature (+SpA -Atk)
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Summary: Politoed is also an attacker. I originally had him as defensive, but it wasn't helping my team very much. I debated between choice scarf and specs, and settled on specs. Politoed has enough bulk to take a hit or two anyways, and the extra power is always welcome. His coverage is great, and, like Ninetales, gets rid of a bevy of common Pokemon. Again, I try to send him in when I know rain will stay on my side, but even if it doesn't, and an opponent switches in their weather inducer, or even a counter to my Politoed, I have my own counters and weather inducers/trappers to switch to.

Mega Cute @ Leftovers
[Sand Stream] Sassy Nature [+SpD -Spe]
252 Atk / 64 SpA / 192 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast

Summary: The third weather inducer, and the best of the bunch when it comes to raw stats. Tyranitar sets up Stealth Rock for me, which is great in general, but particularly for Dragonites Multiscale and Volcaronas who think they can switch in more than once. With this team keeping up the offensive, switches will be common unless they are trapped or want to die to a sun powered Ninetales or a rain powered Politoed. He is defensive when compared to most of my team, yet he can still kill certain threats. Fire Blast gets rid of Ferrothorn/Forretress/Skarmory, and Ice Beam threatens many Pokemon. Crunch is for powerful STAB. I take the most care with keeping my Tyranitar alive, whereas I play Ninetales and Politoed more aggressively. Maybe that's because when Tyranitar's counters are gone, he's the most deadly, or because Sandstorm doesn't effect Magnezone or Dugtrio, so this team is more a "sand" team than anything else. In any case, specially defensive Tyranitar is a big part of what this team needs to be successful.

Snuggles @ Choice Specs
[Magnet Pull] Timid Nature (+Spe -Atk)
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon

Summary: Magnezone is pretty self explanatory. He traps steels, kills them, moves on. I chose choice specs for all the power I could get, though I am open to another item, such as a berry, leftovers, life orb, or air balloon. Magnezone's goal is really just to kill steel types (barring Heatran), water types such as Gyarados and hope he doesn't have Earthquake, and to dent any flying type (maybe dragons if I need help on one). Skarmory, Scizor, and Jirachi are the three main offenders Magnezone tries to take care of. Volt Switch is used for some good damage and scouting, while HP Fire and Thunderbolt are used for demolishing things.

Triple Cute @ Choice Band
[Arena Trap] Jolly Nature (+Spe -Spa)
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Night Slash
- Aerial Ace

Summary: Dugtrio is one of the two most important members to this team, the other being Wobbuffet. Dugtrio kill things, without the enemy being able to escape. Heatran, Magnezone, Gengar, Breloom, Virizion, Ninetales, Starmie, Tentacruel, the list goes on. Dugtrio flat out owns so many Pokemon. All of his moves cover most of the game, and are super effective against almost everything. Dugtrio either comes in after one of my Pokemon is dead and I send him in to revenge kill, when I get lucky at the beginning of the match and I use him first against something he can kill, or the most important use, sending him in after an encore from Wobbuffet. People, upon seeing Wobbuffet, either attack, to which he can't be 2HKO'd in general, or they boost, to which I encore. If I encore a boost, then they are dead. If I encore any non attacking move, they are dead. Dugtrio can almost always come in and 2HKO or 3HKO if he's faster. And so the opponent tears their hair out. Once they lose their weather inducer, they are even further in the hole against this team. Dugtrio is one of the main guys to do that. Here's the other.

Cuddles @ Leftovers
[Shadow Tag] Relaxed Nature (+Def -Spe) 0 Speed IV's
28 HP/ 252 Def / 228 SpD
- Encore
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Safeguard

Summary: Wobbuffet is my favorite Pokemon, and the glue to this team . He almost always takes a Pokemon with him, many times two Pokemon, or at least sets up a second to die. Encore is one of the best moves for Wobbuffet. I detailed its use above, but it really is that simple. Counter for an outraging dragon or choiced attacker, Mirror coat for the same thing except for Special Attacks. Safeguard can be surprisingly useful. Oh, that Tentacruel is setting up Poison Spikes? Encore it, Safeguard, switch to Dugtrio and kill. Safe from stuff like that for a few turns can be great. The synergy between Wobbuffet and Dugtrio is second to none. Add in Magnezone, and that's three hair pull inducing trappers. Add in three weather induce Pokemon to get rid of opponents weather, especially after their own weather Pokemon has been trapped and killed, and people are further upset. Wobbuffet!

Conclusion: This team is still evolving. I may go back to trying four weather starters again, but Magnezone has so far proved its worth. People don't expect and sometimes don't know what to do against a team like this. It's both predictable and unpredictable at the same time. I think many underestimate this team when they see it in team preview. Hopefully, after the battle, they'll think a little more carefully about what is and isn't possible in Pokemon.

Dice · Apr 12th, 2012, 7:24:03 PM

To be perfectly blunt, having more than one weather inducer is frowned upon, and having 3 is just... it doesn't work. I recommend you check out the tutoring thread to get some ideas on how to further your OU skills!

I love shorts · Apr 12th, 2012, 7:28:53 PM

I reached 1300+ with this team, and it has been constantly changing, so it does work. I'm just still figuring it out. I'm also not the best battler, so I'm sure someone could do even better with it than I could.

Why is multi-weather frowned upon? Just the other day I saw a dual weather team that people thought was cool/interesting/effective.

~~bubbly~~ · Apr 12th, 2012, 10:53:16 PM

Dual weather can be pulled off. Triple weather is basically a no, because Abomasnow, Ninetales and Politoed are all pretty bad pokemon. With that many inducers, sure you can stop opposing weather teams from taking advantage of their weather-boosted abilities, but at the same time you're not taking advantage of anything yourself - you don't have any effective strategy on this team beyond trying to trap things.

I love shorts · Apr 13th, 2012, 12:30:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat bubbly

Dual weather can be pulled off. Triple weather is basically a no, because Abomasnow, Ninetales and Politoed are all pretty bad pokemon. With that many inducers, sure you can stop opposing weather teams from taking advantage of their weather-boosted abilities, but at the same time you're not taking advantage of anything yourself - you don't have any effective strategy on this team beyond trying to trap things.

That's kind of the idea, right? Because most weather teams Pokemon are pretty terrible as well without their corresponding weather. Any Pokemon that would give me problems are solved via my trappers, as well as the (I'm sure anyone can attest) surprising power that a Ninetales in sun or a Politoed in rain can bring, especially when boosted with a life orb or choice specs, and doubly so when their counters and opposing weather users are gone. I am not taking advantage of the weather, per se. I'm taking advantage of how good Ninetales and Politoed can be with opposing weather taken out of the game. Of course they suck on their own in most capacities, but most people who have battled an offensive Ninetales or Politoed can probably attest to the surprising power they can have, especially boosted by their weather.

The team has been pretty successful so far. But I might be missing something, and both of you are right. Any constructive feedback, though, is welcome!

Novaray · Apr 13th, 2012, 12:51:44 AM

Hi, creative team and great job at getting 1300+ rating with it! Its nice to see some teams that aren't bog standard on the ladder. Not looking at your team, I can see Dragon Dance Dragonite being a threat. The only thing that can check it really is Wobbuffet as Choice Band Dugtrio's Stone Edge does not OHKO through Multiscale, provided that it hits. As you are already running a lot of offensive sets, I would recommend replacing Dragon Dance Tyranitar with a more defensive set. I personally also love Dragon Dance Tyranitar, however, I think running a Tyranitar with Stealth Rock will help you against Dragonite and in a similar vein, Salamence. Having a Stealth Rock user on your team will also help against Volcarona who is a solid threat to your threat once Dugtrio is gone and sets up a Quiver Dance, by stripping it of half of its HP every time it switches in.

Tyranitar Set:

...

Another potential threat I see to this team is Swords Dance Lucario with Crunch. After a Swords Dance boost and with the extra power of Life Orb, it is able to sweep your team, with Extremespeed for Dugtrio. Granted that Ice Punch Lucario is more common than Crunch, I still think you can prepare for this threat. I would recommend changing Dugtrio's Choice Band to a Focus Sash. This would allow Dugtrio to live the Extremespeed and OHKO back with either Earthquake or a powerful Reversal. Also, this would decrease the number of Choiced Pokemon on your team from 3 to 2 which I think is a benefit to your team as it makes it less prone to set-up sweepers such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Volcarona

Dugtrio Set:

...

Again, props on the creative team and good luck!

I love shorts · Apr 13th, 2012, 12:54:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Novaray

Hi, creative team and great job at getting 1300+ rating with it! Its nice to see some teams that aren't bog standard on the ladder. Not looking at your team, I can see Dragon Dance Dragonite being a threat. The only thing that can check it really is Wobbuffet as Choice Band Dugtrio's Stone Edge does not OHKO through Multiscale, provided that it hits. As you are already running a lot of offensive sets, I would recommend replacing Dragon Dance Tyranitar with a more defensive set. I personally also love Dragon Dance Tyranitar, however, I think running a Tyranitar with Stealth Rock will help you against [COLOR="rgb(244, 164, 96)"]Dragonite[/COLOR] and in a similar vein, Salamence. Having a Stealth Rock user on your team will also help against Volcarona who is a solid threat to your threat once Dugtrio is gone and sets up a Quiver Dance, by stripping it of half of its HP every time it switches in.

Set:

...

Again, props on the creative team and good luck!

Hey. Thanks, that actually helps a lot. I have found myself swept a couple times by just those threats, especially when Wobbuffet or Dugtrio can't get the job done (though sometimes they can, if I don't die to a Dragonite +1 Outrage, depends on what item he's wearing I guess), so I think that more defensive Tyranitar with Stealth Rock will help a lot against dragons, ice teams, Volcarona, etc. I don't even think I'll have to try it out to know it's better than my DD Tyranitar for this team, but I'll implement it right away!

I had considered that Dugtrio set as well, and I think I'll try it out too. Thanks for providing me some sets and feedback I can use!

Apr 12th, 2012, 6:20:57 PM	#1
I love shorts Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 5	Triple Point Triple Point: in thermodynamics, the temperature and pressure at which three states of matter can co-exist. Welcome to my RMT. It utilizes three different types of weather in the forms of sun, rain, and sand. It is still being tweaked, but the idea so far has been relatively successful. I originally wanted to use four weather inducers, so that Abomasnow was included as well, but I found his multitude of common weaknesses to be off-putting. His weaknesses overlap with Tyranitar's, and having two Pokemon to be taken out by, say, Scizor, wasn't helpful. Team Development: First, the weather inducers, who are quite strong Pokemon in and of themselves when their weather is up. Ninetales for sun, Politoed for rain, and Tyranitar for sandstorm. These three formed the basis for my team, yet there was another core I needed to include to help the team as a whole function as well as possible. This second group consists of trapping Pokemon. Magnezone for trapping steels, Dugtrio for it's power, coverage, and trapping ability, and finally Wobbuffet, the glue Pokemon for the whole team. Here's how the team works. Team Breakdown: Super Cute @ Life Orb [Drought] Timid Nature (+Spe -Atk) 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe - Flamethrower - Energy Ball - Hidden Power [Ice or Fighting] - Hypnosis Summary: This Ninetales is an attacker, and is most effective when sun is out (duh). I sometimes use Fire Blast for the greater power, but after you miss at critical times, you rage back to Flamethrower, until you leave an enemy at 2% health a few times, and you rage back to Fire Blast. Anyways, Ninetales is just there to punch some holes in teams. I have considered adding Will-o-Wisp, but am okay without it so far. Hypnosis has saved me a few times, though obviously the accuracy can't be relied on. Somehow, I am more accurate with Hypnosis than I am with Fire Blast, but then again, it's RNG. That's basically it for Ninetales; hit things hard with great coverage moves. As with all of my weather inducers, I try to send them in after opposing weather inducers are dead from Wobbuffet/Dugtrio. Ultra Cute @ Choice Specs [Drizzle] Modest Nature (+SpA -Atk) 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD - Surf - Ice Beam - Focus Blast - Hidden Power [Grass] Summary: Politoed is also an attacker. I originally had him as defensive, but it wasn't helping my team very much. I debated between choice scarf and specs, and settled on specs. Politoed has enough bulk to take a hit or two anyways, and the extra power is always welcome. His coverage is great, and, like Ninetales, gets rid of a bevy of common Pokemon. Again, I try to send him in when I know rain will stay on my side, but even if it doesn't, and an opponent switches in their weather inducer, or even a counter to my Politoed, I have my own counters and weather inducers/trappers to switch to. Mega Cute @ Leftovers [Sand Stream] Sassy Nature [+SpD -Spe] 252 Atk / 64 SpA / 192 SpD - Stealth Rock - Crunch - Ice Beam - Fire Blast Summary: The third weather inducer, and the best of the bunch when it comes to raw stats. Tyranitar sets up Stealth Rock for me, which is great in general, but particularly for Dragonites Multiscale and Volcaronas who think they can switch in more than once. With this team keeping up the offensive, switches will be common unless they are trapped or want to die to a sun powered Ninetales or a rain powered Politoed. He is defensive when compared to most of my team, yet he can still kill certain threats. Fire Blast gets rid of Ferrothorn/Forretress/Skarmory, and Ice Beam threatens many Pokemon. Crunch is for powerful STAB. I take the most care with keeping my Tyranitar alive, whereas I play Ninetales and Politoed more aggressively. Maybe that's because when Tyranitar's counters are gone, he's the most deadly, or because Sandstorm doesn't effect Magnezone or Dugtrio, so this team is more a "sand" team than anything else. In any case, specially defensive Tyranitar is a big part of what this team needs to be successful. Snuggles @ Choice Specs [Magnet Pull] Timid Nature (+Spe -Atk) 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe - Volt Switch - Hidden Power [Fire] - Thunderbolt - Flash Cannon Summary: Magnezone is pretty self explanatory. He traps steels, kills them, moves on. I chose choice specs for all the power I could get, though I am open to another item, such as a berry, leftovers, life orb, or air balloon. Magnezone's goal is really just to kill steel types (barring Heatran), water types such as Gyarados and hope he doesn't have Earthquake, and to dent any flying type (maybe dragons if I need help on one). Skarmory, Scizor, and Jirachi are the three main offenders Magnezone tries to take care of. Volt Switch is used for some good damage and scouting, while HP Fire and Thunderbolt are used for demolishing things. Triple Cute @ Choice Band [Arena Trap] Jolly Nature (+Spe -Spa) 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe - Earthquake - Stone Edge - Night Slash - Aerial Ace Summary: Dugtrio is one of the two most important members to this team, the other being Wobbuffet. Dugtrio kill things, without the enemy being able to escape. Heatran, Magnezone, Gengar, Breloom, Virizion, Ninetales, Starmie, Tentacruel, the list goes on. Dugtrio flat out owns so many Pokemon. All of his moves cover most of the game, and are super effective against almost everything. Dugtrio either comes in after one of my Pokemon is dead and I send him in to revenge kill, when I get lucky at the beginning of the match and I use him first against something he can kill, or the most important use, sending him in after an encore from Wobbuffet. People, upon seeing Wobbuffet, either attack, to which he can't be 2HKO'd in general, or they boost, to which I encore. If I encore a boost, then they are dead. If I encore any non attacking move, they are dead. Dugtrio can almost always come in and 2HKO or 3HKO if he's faster. And so the opponent tears their hair out. Once they lose their weather inducer, they are even further in the hole against this team. Dugtrio is one of the main guys to do that. Here's the other. Cuddles @ Leftovers [Shadow Tag] Relaxed Nature (+Def -Spe) 0 Speed IV's 28 HP/ 252 Def / 228 SpD - Encore - Counter - Mirror Coat - Safeguard Summary: Wobbuffet is my favorite Pokemon, and the glue to this team . He almost always takes a Pokemon with him, many times two Pokemon, or at least sets up a second to die. Encore is one of the best moves for Wobbuffet. I detailed its use above, but it really is that simple. Counter for an outraging dragon or choiced attacker, Mirror coat for the same thing except for Special Attacks. Safeguard can be surprisingly useful. Oh, that Tentacruel is setting up Poison Spikes? Encore it, Safeguard, switch to Dugtrio and kill. Safe from stuff like that for a few turns can be great. The synergy between Wobbuffet and Dugtrio is second to none. Add in Magnezone, and that's three hair pull inducing trappers. Add in three weather induce Pokemon to get rid of opponents weather, especially after their own weather Pokemon has been trapped and killed, and people are further upset. Wobbuffet! Conclusion: This team is still evolving. I may go back to trying four weather starters again, but Magnezone has so far proved its worth. People don't expect and sometimes don't know what to do against a team like this. It's both predictable and unpredictable at the same time. I think many underestimate this team when they see it in team preview. Hopefully, after the battle, they'll think a little more carefully about what is and isn't possible in Pokemon. Last edited by I love shorts; Apr 13th, 2012 at 1:02:59 AM.

Apr 12th, 2012, 7:24:03 PM	#2
Dice and even after all my logic and my theory, i add a 'motherfucker' so you ignorant niggas hear me Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,231 !	To be perfectly blunt, having more than one weather inducer is frowned upon, and having 3 is just... it doesn't work. I recommend you check out the tutoring thread to get some ideas on how to further your OU skills! __________________

Apr 13th, 2012, 12:51:44 AM	#6
Novaray .dancin Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 1,160 Mentor	Hi, creative team and great job at getting 1300+ rating with it! Its nice to see some teams that aren't bog standard on the ladder. Not looking at your team, I can see Dragon Dance Dragonite being a threat. The only thing that can check it really is Wobbuffet as Choice Band Dugtrio's Stone Edge does not OHKO through Multiscale, provided that it hits. As you are already running a lot of offensive sets, I would recommend replacing Dragon Dance Tyranitar with a more defensive set. I personally also love Dragon Dance Tyranitar, however, I think running a Tyranitar with Stealth Rock will help you against Dragonite and in a similar vein, Salamence. Having a Stealth Rock user on your team will also help against Volcarona who is a solid threat to your threat once Dugtrio is gone and sets up a Quiver Dance, by stripping it of half of its HP every time it switches in. Tyranitar Set: ... Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Sand Stream EVs: 252 Atk / 64 SAtk / 192 SDef Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd) - Stealth Rock - Crunch - Ice Beam - Fire Blast Another potential threat I see to this team is Swords Dance Lucario with Crunch. After a Swords Dance boost and with the extra power of Life Orb, it is able to sweep your team, with Extremespeed for Dugtrio. Granted that Ice Punch Lucario is more common than Crunch, I still think you can prepare for this threat. I would recommend changing Dugtrio's Choice Band to a Focus Sash. This would allow Dugtrio to live the Extremespeed and OHKO back with either Earthquake or a powerful Reversal. Also, this would decrease the number of Choiced Pokemon on your team from 3 to 2 which I think is a benefit to your team as it makes it less prone to set-up sweepers such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Volcarona Dugtrio Set: ... Dugtrio (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Arena Trap EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SDef) - Reversal - Earthquake - Stone Edge - Substitute Again, props on the creative team and good luck! __________________ Last edited by Novaray; Apr 13th, 2012 at 1:04:55 AM.

Apr 12th, 2012, 7:28:53 PM	#3
I love shorts Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 5	I reached 1300+ with this team, and it has been constantly changing, so it does work. I'm just still figuring it out. I'm also not the best battler, so I'm sure someone could do even better with it than I could. Why is multi-weather frowned upon? Just the other day I saw a dual weather team that people thought was cool/interesting/effective.

Apr 12th, 2012, 10:53:16 PM	#4
~~bubbly~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 884 Australia	Dual weather can be pulled off. Triple weather is basically a no, because Abomasnow, Ninetales and Politoed are all pretty bad pokemon. With that many inducers, sure you can stop opposing weather teams from taking advantage of their weather-boosted abilities, but at the same time you're not taking advantage of anything yourself - you don't have any effective strategy on this team beyond trying to trap things.