The Drowned World - Rain Offense

Bribery · Apr 9th, 2012, 11:04:48 PM

THE DROWNED WORLD

Hi everyone, welcome to my OU RMT. This team was my main team during the BW1 metagame and I've since updated it for BW2. As the thread title suggests, The Drowned World is an offensive Rain team. It's primarily based on sweeping with SubCM Jirachi, my absolute favorite Pokemon. Most teams based on SubCM Jirachi use a more Stall/Balanced approach. However, I've decided to take a much more offensive approach, using heavy hitters like CB Terrakion, LO Latias, and Scarf Moxie Salamence, to soften the opponent for Jirachi or act as alternate win conditions. This offensive core works well because they can weaken each or eliminate each other's counters.

This has definitely been my favorite team to use because it suits my play-style perfectly. I don't have any major ladder accomplishments with this team but I've peaked in the lower 100s of the ladder several times with it. I know that's nothing spectacular but it's decent for me considering I suck at laddering. The team's name comes from the post-apocalyptic fiction novel by J. G. Ballard.

IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS

POLITOED @ Choice Specs
Drizzle | Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
216 HP / 252 SpA / 40 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power Grass

Politoed is one of the most important team members when facing opposing weather teams, especially Sun teams because Chlorophyll sweepers are difficult for this team to handle. This is the main reason I chose to use the Choice Specs Politoed set. Its typing and natural bulk make it a decent switch-in for Ninetales and Tyranitar while the threat of a Specs Hydro Pump prevents them from switching in safely. Thus, it's arguably the most effective set for winning the weather war. Against weatherless teams, Politoed is definitely the least valuable player so I usually use it as death fodder once Rain is active. I usually lead with Politoed against Weatherless teams. However, against opposing weather teams, I tend to be more picky with my lead depending on what my opponent has in their party.

The moveset is fairly standard. Hydro Pump is the STAB move of choice due to sheer power under the Rain. It puts massive dents in just about anything, including Water resists. The remaining moves provide extra coverage against things that commonly resist Hydro Pump. Ice Beam nails Grass and Dragon types while Focus Blast hits Ferrothorn. HP Grass rounds out coverage against Jellicent, Rotom-W, and Gastrodon. In particular, taking out Gastrodon makes things much easier for Jirachi and Latias. Special attack is maxed to hit as hard as possible while the remaining EVs are allocated to HP for some extra bulk. The small speed investment allows Politoed to outrun most Jellicent and Skarmory.

JIRACHI @ Leftovers
Serene Grace | Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Flash Cannon

Jirachi is my favorite Pokemon so I just had to build a team around it. It has so many viable sets that it keeps the opponent on his or her toes wondering how to counter it. The SubCM set has always been my favorite Jirachi set, even in Generation 4 where I built several teams around it. It's one of the best stallbreakers in the game since it can setup on several weaker Pokemon, such as Ferrothorn which Politoed commonly lures in. Thus, many Stall teams, especially Rain Stall, cringe at the sight of SubCM Jirachi because not even Blissey and Chansey can wall it. What's even better is that Jirachi's common checks, such as Gliscor and Skarmory, all fall to this set. This makes it easier for Salamence to clean up once Jirachi finishes them off.

Substitute protects Jirachi from debilitating status effects and revenge killers, allowing it to safely use Calm Mind or attack. Thunder and Flash Cannon provide decent coverage together. Thunder is also great for spreading paralysis thanks to Serene Grace doubling the paralysis probability. Flash Cannon is the STAB move of choice for its ability to dent Tyranitar, making Jirachi less reliant on the Rain in comparison to Water Pulse. Flash Cannon also has a nice chance to reduce the opponent's special defense, making special walls like Blissey easier to handle. 252 HP EVs are crucial since they create 101 HP Substitutes that are unbreakable by Seismic Toss/Night Shade. I opted to run max Speed to tie with opposing +speed base 100s.

LATIAS @ Life Orb
Levitate | Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Surf
- Roost

I originally had SubHydreigon in this spot. While it was great at catching opponents off guard, I needed a more reliable check to Rotom-W, Keldeo, and Terrakion. Latias was the perfect remedy to these issues. It also has excellent offensive synergy with the rest of the team. Together with Salamence, the two form a formidable double-Dragon offensive core that is capable of weakening each other's counters for a sweep. Likewise, Latias has great synergy with Jirachi since they cover a lot of each other's elemental weaknesses. It can also lure in Ferrothorn for Jirachi to setup on and it can weaken special walls, such as Gastrodon and Blissey, with Psyshock. Furthermore, Latias lures in Tyranitar which Terrakion can switch-in on, possibly gaining a Justified boost in the process.

Besides being a threatening offensive force, Latias is also my main check to several Pokemon. It's my main answer to Rotom-W which can be a nuisance to this team, especially the Choice Scarf variants. Latias is capable of avoiding a 2HKO from Rotom's rain-boosted Hydro Pump, even after Stealth Rock damage, and threatening to 2HKO it with Dragon Pulse. Latias is also a solid answer to Volt-Turn in general since it easily checks Rotom-W and non-Scarf Landorus, while Scizor risks being 2HKO'd by Surf. Thundurus-T, Keldeo, Virizion, Terrakion, Mienshao, Venusaur, and Infernape are also easily checked by Latias.

The moveset is fairly straightforward. Dragon Pulse is Latias' primary STAB move. I prefer it over Draco Meteor for reliability and consistency. Psyshock provides secondary stab, capable of denting special walls like Blissey and Gastrodon. Surf is actually Latias' strongest attack under the Rain and it's a great move to spam while opposing Steel types are still present. Roost significantly increases Latias's survivability and offsets Life Orb's recoil damage.

TERRAKION @ Choice Band
Justified | Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Earthquake

Say hello to one of the best wall-breakers in the game. Thanks to its monstrous power and STAB moves, only a handful of walls can take repeated hits from it. Thus, it shouldn't be surprising that Terrakion's purpose on this team is to crush opposing walls. It eliminates special walls like Blissey/Chansey, Tyranitar, and Gastrodon that would wall Latias and Jirachi. Likewise, it muscles through physical walls so that Salamence has an easier time finishing them off for a late-game Moxie sweep.

Terrakion also makes a great switch-in to opposing weather inducers since Ninetales, Tyranitar, and Abomasnow are all weak to one of its STABs. Close Combat and Stone Edge have excellent coverage so they are usually the only moves I use. However, X-Scissor and Earthquake have their uses. For example, X-Scissor can revenge kill Celebi while Earthquake can revenge kill CM Jirachi and Toxicroak. There's not much else I can say about Terrakion. It does what it needs to do and it does it very well.

SALAMENCE @ Choice Scarf
Moxie | Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Brick Break

Salamence's primarily role is to act as my revenge killer. It's crucial for checkings things like Terrakion, Starmie, Latios/Latias, and other speedy threats that would otherwise plow through this team. It also helps a lot against Sun teams since its typing grants it key resistances to the Fire, Grass, and Bug attacks that they commonly carry. However, since Salamence has a Stealth Rock weakness, I try to play conservatively with it early game, only bringing it out if absolutely needed.

Revenge killing is not all that Salamence is capable of doing. It is also one of the deadliest late-game cleaners in the metagame thanks to its destructive ability, Moxie. After a Moxie boost, Salamence essentially has the equivalent of 1 Dragon Dance boost thanks to Choice Scarf. Even though the Choice Scarf set is very popular these days, some opponents still don't suspect it, so getting a free Moxie boost against something like Latios isn't uncommon at all. Moxie also punishes opponents that use death fodder in order to bring in their Salamence check safely.

Outrage is the move I spam late game when cleaning up. However, Dragon Claw is useful early game to prevent locking myself in or if I cannot risk getting confused by Outrage. Earthquake and Brick Break aren't used often but they are useful for revenge killing certain threats. Brick Break is particularly useful for breaking Dual Screens. I opted for a Jolly nature over Adamant to speed tie with things like Offensive Volcarona and opposing Scarf/+1 DD Salamence, as well as outspeeding Jolly Scarf Darmanitan/Haxorus.

SKARMORY @ Leftovers
Sturdy | Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock

Skarmory is the team's defensive backbone as it covers many threats that the rest of the team cannot handle. Using a Specially Defensive EV spread allows it to function as an effective mixed wall, especially when Rain nullifies its Fire weakness. This allows Skarmory to check a myriad of threats on both sides of the spectrum. On the special side, it can easily check Tornadus-T, NP Celebi, Hydreigon, CM Reuniclus, SubDisable Gengar, and CM Virizon, among others. Skarmory is also surprisingly good at taking unboosted Rotom-W's Volt Switch so it can also handle VoltTurn teams effectively. Despite the lack of physical defense investment, Skarmory is still very capable of checking many common physical attackers. These include non-Taunt variants of Gliscor, Mamoswine, Scizor, and LumDD/CB Dragonite. Furthermore, Skarmory can wall a variety of mixed attackers, such as Mixed Salamence (assuming Rain is up), Expert Belt Landorus, Tyranitar, and Abomasnow.

Besides checking the aforementioned threats, Skarmory has the all-important duty of setting up Stealth Rock. In addition to securing certain KOs, Stealth Rock is also crucial for weakening Volt-Turn cores as well as keeping deadly sweepers like Dragonite and Volcarona at bay. I would have liked to use Spikes but Skarmory is the only Pokemon on this team that has room for Stealth Rock in its moveset. Besides, Spikes usually goes to waste if my opponent has a Rapid Spinner. The EVs are entirely oriented towards Special Defense since Skarmory's Defense is already naturally high.

THREAT LIST

Fast special attackers like Tornadus-T, LO Latios/Latias, LO Alakazam, and Starmie are difficult to play around. Salamence can revenge kill them but something has to be sacrificed to bring it in safely. Latias can usually tank a hit from the aforementioned special attackers if it's healthy enough. Jellicent, Scarf Rotom-W, and Gastrodon aren't huge threats but they can be annoying if played correctly.

Importable

AnonymousAgent · Apr 10th, 2012, 8:33:28 PM

i've been playing this team a lot today and i really like it, although one problem i found with it is that it has few ways to deal with bulky grass types, particularly SubSeed Jellicent and, when Politoed is KO'd, Chllorophyll Venasaur. i've yet to figure out a solution, as HP fire on either toed or starmie is just a bad idea.

ShinySyduck · Apr 11th, 2012, 12:41:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat AnonymousAgent

i've been playing this team a lot today and i really like it, although one problem i found with it is that it has few ways to deal with bulky grass types, particularly SubSeed Jellicent and, when Politoed is KO'd, Chllorophyll Venasaur. i've yet to figure out a solution, as HP fire on either toed or starmie is just a bad idea.

Jellicent doesnt get leech seed and is not a grass type -_- . Um, just a suggestion run surf > hydro pump on starmie, because in rain and with life orb you don't need THAT much extra power. Stab plus rain already gives you enough power, so just take the accuracy and pp

~~Fried Rhys~~ · Apr 11th, 2012, 6:45:05 AM

i've never really liked the idea of running scarftoed alongside starmie. the reason being starmie revenges most of what politoed can, barring alakazam and dugtrio, neither of whom are really issues for your team. you can instead use a specs politoed as a wallbreaker which focuses more on blasting through water resists and other possible starmie checks/counters. this would also help with any conkeldurr issues you're having. specs politoed gets a guaranteed ohko on conkeldurr. if you make this change you'd probably want to run recover on starmie since some pressure has been lifted from politoed to revenge. you can ditch ice beam, as it's the least important moveslot. politoed will be hitting the grass types like celebi and the dragons like latios/latias hard enough to the point that a hydro pump from starmie will be more than enough to finish them off.

magnezone looks really bad for this team to face, as it traps your only electric resist. the only other mon that can come in is dragonite, who actually lets it setup charge beams with dragon claw as its only attack. bulldoze > thunderwave on ferrothorn helps with this, and really eases the pain against dragmag teams or reuniclus + mag teams. bulldoze can also help against sub cm jirachi. it still 2hkoes the subs as power whip does but has perfect accuracy which can help when you're probably paralyzed by thunder. deterring heatran switch-ins is also nice, since it will often set up stealth rock which forces you to spin with starmie if you want dragonite to come in with multiscale activated. cool team though. hope this helps you get past your current peak.

Warahyuu · Apr 12th, 2012, 8:45:23 AM

Solid team but it does have issues with Bulk Up Fighting types. You mentioned Conkeldurr, but Bulk Up Breloom can also be a big threat. Nothing on your team can OHKO it once it sets up on Ferrothorn.

Without changing the team too much, using Psychic over Ice Beam on Starmie will help patch up your Conkeldurr and Breloom weaknesses. It also gives you a more reliable way of revenge killing Terrakion.

Bribery · Apr 13th, 2012, 7:08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat AnonymousAgent

i've been playing this team a lot today and i really like it, although one problem i found with it is that it has few ways to deal with bulky grass types, particularly SubSeed Jellicent and, when Politoed is KO'd, Chllorophyll Venasaur. i've yet to figure out a solution, as HP fire on either toed or starmie is just a bad idea.

Not sure what you mean by SubSeed Jellicent, but yeah, Grass types can be annoying. Dragonite can setup on most of them though, which is usually my main method if dealing with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ShinySyduck

Jellicent doesnt get leech seed and is not a grass type -_- . Um, just a suggestion run surf > hydro pump on starmie, because in rain and with life orb you don't need THAT much extra power. Stab plus rain already gives you enough power, so just take the accuracy and pp

The main reason I prefer Hydro Pump is because even resisted hits do a chunk of damage. For example, Hydro Pump + Rain 2HKOs defensive Rotom-W and Latios something which Surf cannot do. Plus it still hits hard if Rain is not active, making me less reliant on weather to win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Fried Rhys

i've never really liked the idea of running scarftoed alongside starmie. the reason being starmie revenges most of what politoed can, barring alakazam and dugtrio, neither of whom are really issues for your team. you can instead use a specs politoed as a wallbreaker which focuses more on blasting through water resists and other possible starmie checks/counters. this would also help with any conkeldurr issues you're having. specs politoed gets a guaranteed ohko on conkeldurr. if you make this change you'd probably want to run recover on starmie since some pressure has been lifted from politoed to revenge. you can ditch ice beam, as it's the least important moveslot. politoed will be hitting the grass types like celebi and the dragons like latios/latias hard enough to the point that a hydro pump from starmie will be more than enough to finish them off.

magnezone looks really bad for this team to face, as it traps your only electric resist. the only other mon that can come in is dragonite, who actually lets it setup charge beams with dragon claw as its only attack. bulldoze > thunderwave on ferrothorn helps with this, and really eases the pain against dragmag teams or reuniclus + mag teams. bulldoze can also help against sub cm jirachi. it still 2hkoes the subs as power whip does but has perfect accuracy which can help when you're probably paralyzed by thunder. deterring heatran switch-ins is also nice, since it will often set up stealth rock which forces you to spin with starmie if you want dragonite to come in with multiscale activated. cool team though. hope this helps you get past your current peak.

Bulldoze is a great idea so I'll make the change. I'll have to test SpecsToed a bit though. My main concern with it is the lack of speed, though the power is appealing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Warahyuu

Solid team but it does have issues with Bulk Up Fighting types. You mentioned Conkeldurr, but Bulk Up Breloom can also be a big threat. Nothing on your team can OHKO it once it sets up on Ferrothorn.

Without changing the team too much, using Psychic over Ice Beam on Starmie will help patch up your Conkeldurr and Breloom weaknesses. It also gives you a more reliable way of revenge killing Terrakion.

I'll probably make this change. It patches up the Conkeldurr and Breloom weaknesses nicely.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!

Bribery · Apr 28th, 2012, 11:38:59 PM

Bumping because I revamped the entire team. It's completely different, but I didn't want to make a new thread since it's still a Rain offense team. I think it's more consistent than the previous team and it uses more uncommon sets.

Tomahawk9 · Apr 29th, 2012, 6:38:18 AM

cool team as always, typing this for the third time so hopefully my phone will let me post this time -.-
Try bronzong over skarmory, esp since youre not using spikes. Its a better defensive backbone imo since it has better overal bulk, no weaknesses in the rain and its a better dragon counter since they cant really hurt you and you can actually retaliate with a 225 bp gyro ball or a 4x se hp ice. Moveset is sr / gyro ball / eq / hp ice, ev spread is 252 hp / 116 def / 140 sdef sassy iirc but you can adjust to your likings. Bronzong also helps with tornadus and lati@s which can be threats as you mentioned.
Btw, your team seems rather weak to sdcroak, so use eq over qa on terrakion so you at least have a way of reliably revenge killing it.

DestinyUnknown · Apr 29th, 2012, 8:06:50 AM

Good team Bribery! Your team is pretty solid in general, though the lack of a good Fighting resistance hurts it a bit. I agree with Tomahawk9 in that you should use Bronzong over Skarmory, as it takes Special Attacks better while not compromising too much its physical bulk. Also, you aren't using spikes which is Skarmory main advantage. This Bronzong set:

Bronzong@Leftovers | Levitate
Nature Relaxed (Speed Iv 0) | 252 Hp / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Stealth Rock
Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Toxic

The ev spread doesn't acomplish anything, it just made to get a jump point on physical defense.

I would also go with Draco Meteor>Dragon Claw and Fire Blast>Brick Break on Salamence, while changing its nature to Naive. With this change, you can still hit Ferrothorn and Skarmory if something goes wrong, while Draco Meteor hits threats such as Tangrowth and Gliscor really hard (doing upwards to 60%), and it's in general better than Dragon Claw since Draco Meteor hits harder than Dragon Claw unless you're staying in more than 2 turns (and your better using Outrage in that case). Also, running a +Speed nature allow you to revenge kill Jolly Dragon Dance Haxorus, which can run rampant through your team otherwise.

Finally, I suggest using Earthquake on Terrakion over Quick Attack, to get the KO on SubCM Jirachi and Tentacruel reliably as well as being able to revenge kill Toxicroak.

HolyAvatar · Apr 29th, 2012, 2:31:41 PM

The problem is that if he removes Skarmory, he wont have any phasing moves.
This could be really dangerous.

Skarmory is about spikes AND phasing.

victini493RMT · Apr 29th, 2012, 11:31:25 PM

Wow man! I love this team. I was kinda wary of Fire Blast on Sub 3 Attack Hydreigon in Rain, but it catches so many people off guard who think that their Venusaur is safe. Gastrodon is a threat to watch out for, though, because you have no real safe switch in. If Encore isn't really needed for safe switches, I highly recommend Specs Politoed. I prefer a tankish set, as it is very successful in weather wars. It's also worth noting that you can outspeed Quiet Mixed Dragonite, while taking as little as possible from hazards.

Politoed (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Other than that, the team looks very solid and effective. :]

Bribery · Apr 30th, 2012, 11:10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Tomahawk9

cool team as always, typing this for the third time so hopefully my phone will let me post this time -.-
Try bronzong over skarmory, esp since youre not using spikes. Its a better defensive backbone imo since it has better overal bulk, no weaknesses in the rain and its a better dragon counter since they cant really hurt you and you can actually retaliate with a 225 bp gyro ball or a 4x se hp ice. Moveset is sr / gyro ball / eq / hp ice, ev spread is 252 hp / 116 def / 140 sdef sassy iirc but you can adjust to your likings. Bronzong also helps with tornadus and lati@s which can be threats as you mentioned.
Btw, your team seems rather weak to sdcroak, so use eq over qa on terrakion so you at least have a way of reliably revenge killing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DestinyUnknown

Good team Bribery! Your team is pretty solid in general, though the lack of a good Fighting resistance hurts it a bit. I agree with Tomahawk9 in that you should use Bronzong over Skarmory, as it takes Special Attacks better while not compromising too much its physical bulk. Also, you aren't using spikes which is Skarmory main advantage. This Bronzong set:

Bronzong@Leftovers | Levitate
Nature Relaxed (Speed Iv 0) | 252 Hp / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Stealth Rock
Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Toxic

The ev spread doesn't acomplish anything, it just made to get a jump point on physical defense.

I would also go with Draco Meteor>Dragon Claw and Fire Blast>Brick Break on Salamence, while changing its nature to Naive. With this change, you can still hit Ferrothorn and Skarmory if something goes wrong, while Draco Meteor hits threats such as Tangrowth and Gliscor really hard (doing upwards to 60%), and it's in general better than Dragon Claw since Draco Meteor hits harder than Dragon Claw unless you're staying in more than 2 turns (and your better using Outrage in that case). Also, running a +Speed nature allow you to revenge kill Jolly Dragon Dance Haxorus, which can run rampant through your team otherwise.

Finally, I suggest using Earthquake on Terrakion over Quick Attack, to get the KO on SubCM Jirachi and Tentacruel reliably as well as being able to revenge kill Toxicroak.

Thanks for the rates guys. I'll use Earthquake over Quick Attack on Terrakion.

Normally I would use Fire Blast > Brick Break on Salamence but it cannot 2HKO Skarmory in the Rain, meaning it can just Roost and PP Stall it. Draco Meteor was pretty good at catching physical walls off guard. However, Dragon Claw was a lot more reliable in revenge killing things like Latios when I couldn't afford to miss or lock myself into Outrage. I changed Salamence to a speed-boosting nature as suggested. I found it useful since Scarf Mence is gaining more popularity.

I tried Bronzong out and it didn't work as well as I'd hoped. It does take some hits better than Skarmory but the lack of recovery made it less durable in the long run. Plus it gave more setup opportunities to my opponent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat victini493RMT

Wow man! I love this team. I was kinda wary of Fire Blast on Sub 3 Attack Hydreigon in Rain, but it catches so many people off guard who think that their Venusaur is safe. Gastrodon is a threat to watch out for, though, because you have no real safe switch in. If Encore isn't really needed for safe switches, I highly recommend Specs Politoed. I prefer a tankish set, as it is very successful in weather wars. It's also worth noting that you can outspeed Quiet Mixed Dragonite, while taking as little as possible from hazards.

Politoed (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Other than that, the team looks very solid and effective. :]

Thanks for the comments :)

I gave Specs Toed a shot and while the power was nice, having 3 Choice users created too many setup opportunities and made stall much more difficult to handle. Encore is actually very useful since it doesn't lose momentum incase something tries to setup on Politoed.

Warahyuu · May 1st, 2012, 8:21:05 PM

I've been trying this team and it's solid. I tried LO Latios with Draco Meteor/Surf/Psyshock/Recover over Hydreigon and thought it was better. SubHydreigon is cool and all but this team lacks a decent fighting resistance - Terrakion is really deadly. Latios gives you a better way of revenge killing it. It handles Rotom-W much better than Hydreigon and it can nail Gastrodon with Psyshock.

Bribery · May 2nd, 2012, 6:09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Warahyuu

I've been trying this team and it's solid. I tried LO Latios with Draco Meteor/Surf/Psyshock/Recover over Hydreigon and thought it was better. SubHydreigon is cool and all but this team lacks a decent fighting resistance - Terrakion is really deadly. Latios gives you a better way of revenge killing it. It handles Rotom-W much better than Hydreigon and it can nail Gastrodon with Psyshock.

Hmm Latios sounds like a great idea. I'll have to test it out though. SubHydreigon is a lot less prepared for and is arguably more threatening than Latios if it gets behind a Sub.

Bribery · May 4th, 2012, 12:29:39 PM

Okay, after a bit of testing, I've decided to replace Hydreigon with LO Latias. Admittedly, it's not as good as keeping the pressure on the opponent as Hydreigon was (nor is it as cool :P ). However, it helped patch a lot of the issues this team was having, such as Terrakion and Scarf Rotom-W.

I decided to use it instead of Latios because the extra bulk was more helpful than the extra power. For example, Latios is 2hko'd after SR by Rotom's Hydro Pump in the Rain whereas Latias isn't.

Darkerones · May 4th, 2012, 12:56:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Bribery

Okay, after a bit of testing, I've decided to replace Hydreigon with LO Latias. Admittedly, it's not as good as keeping the pressure on the opponent as Hydreigon was (nor is it as cool :P ). However, it helped patch a lot of the issues this team was having, such as Terrakion and Scarf Rotom-W.

I decided to use it instead of Latios because the extra bulk was more helpful than the extra power. For example, Latios is 2hko'd after SR by Rotom's Hydro Pump in the Rain whereas Latias isn't.

Those are really situational reasons to forego 20 base Special attack. Use Latios,and try the Expert Belt set to feign a Choice set.

Try Psyshock over Water Pulse on Rachi so you can beat Blissey with less set up. Flash Cannon is another option to smack Tyranitar thinking they get a free switch in. Water Pulse wont 2HKO Standard Ttar at +1,Flash cannon will.

Bribery · May 4th, 2012, 5:18:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Darkerones

Those are really situational reasons to forego 20 base Special attack. Use Latios,and try the Expert Belt set to feign a Choice set.

Try Psyshock over Water Pulse on Rachi so you can beat Blissey with less set up. Flash Cannon is another option to smack Tyranitar thinking they get a free switch in. Water Pulse wont 2HKO Standard Ttar at +1,Flash cannon will.

To be honest, I've never really found Latios' extra power significant enough to merit using it over Latias. LO Latias can get almost the same KOs as LO Latios.

The problem with the Expert Belt set is that it lacks power on neutral hits compared to Life Orb. Plus, a good opponent will be able to call the bluff easily.

I'll try Psyshock and Flash Cannon on Jirachi and see how it goes.

Apr 9th, 2012, 11:04:48 PM	#1
Bribery Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 275 Toronto, Ontario	The Drowned World - Rain Offense THE DROWNED WORLD Hi everyone, welcome to my OU RMT. This team was my main team during the BW1 metagame and I've since updated it for BW2. As the thread title suggests, The Drowned World is an offensive Rain team. It's primarily based on sweeping with SubCM Jirachi, my absolute favorite Pokemon. Most teams based on SubCM Jirachi use a more Stall/Balanced approach. However, I've decided to take a much more offensive approach, using heavy hitters like CB Terrakion, LO Latias, and Scarf Moxie Salamence, to soften the opponent for Jirachi or act as alternate win conditions. This offensive core works well because they can weaken each or eliminate each other's counters. This has definitely been my favorite team to use because it suits my play-style perfectly. I don't have any major ladder accomplishments with this team but I've peaked in the lower 100s of the ladder several times with it. I know that's nothing spectacular but it's decent for me considering I suck at laddering. The team's name comes from the post-apocalyptic fiction novel by J. G. Ballard. IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS POLITOED @ Choice Specs Drizzle \| Modest (+SpA, -Atk) 216 HP / 252 SpA / 40 Spe - Hydro Pump - Ice Beam - Focus Blast - Hidden Power Grass Politoed is one of the most important team members when facing opposing weather teams, especially Sun teams because Chlorophyll sweepers are difficult for this team to handle. This is the main reason I chose to use the Choice Specs Politoed set. Its typing and natural bulk make it a decent switch-in for Ninetales and Tyranitar while the threat of a Specs Hydro Pump prevents them from switching in safely. Thus, it's arguably the most effective set for winning the weather war. Against weatherless teams, Politoed is definitely the least valuable player so I usually use it as death fodder once Rain is active. I usually lead with Politoed against Weatherless teams. However, against opposing weather teams, I tend to be more picky with my lead depending on what my opponent has in their party. The moveset is fairly standard. Hydro Pump is the STAB move of choice due to sheer power under the Rain. It puts massive dents in just about anything, including Water resists. The remaining moves provide extra coverage against things that commonly resist Hydro Pump. Ice Beam nails Grass and Dragon types while Focus Blast hits Ferrothorn. HP Grass rounds out coverage against Jellicent, Rotom-W, and Gastrodon. In particular, taking out Gastrodon makes things much easier for Jirachi and Latias. Special attack is maxed to hit as hard as possible while the remaining EVs are allocated to HP for some extra bulk. The small speed investment allows Politoed to outrun most Jellicent and Skarmory. JIRACHI @ Leftovers Serene Grace \| Timid (+Spe, -Atk) 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe - Substitute - Calm Mind - Thunder - Flash Cannon Jirachi is my favorite Pokemon so I just had to build a team around it. It has so many viable sets that it keeps the opponent on his or her toes wondering how to counter it. The SubCM set has always been my favorite Jirachi set, even in Generation 4 where I built several teams around it. It's one of the best stallbreakers in the game since it can setup on several weaker Pokemon, such as Ferrothorn which Politoed commonly lures in. Thus, many Stall teams, especially Rain Stall, cringe at the sight of SubCM Jirachi because not even Blissey and Chansey can wall it. What's even better is that Jirachi's common checks, such as Gliscor and Skarmory, all fall to this set. This makes it easier for Salamence to clean up once Jirachi finishes them off. Substitute protects Jirachi from debilitating status effects and revenge killers, allowing it to safely use Calm Mind or attack. Thunder and Flash Cannon provide decent coverage together. Thunder is also great for spreading paralysis thanks to Serene Grace doubling the paralysis probability. Flash Cannon is the STAB move of choice for its ability to dent Tyranitar, making Jirachi less reliant on the Rain in comparison to Water Pulse. Flash Cannon also has a nice chance to reduce the opponent's special defense, making special walls like Blissey easier to handle. 252 HP EVs are crucial since they create 101 HP Substitutes that are unbreakable by Seismic Toss/Night Shade. I opted to run max Speed to tie with opposing +speed base 100s. LATIAS @ Life Orb Levitate \| Timid (+Spe, -Atk) 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe - Dragon Pulse - Psyshock - Surf - Roost I originally had SubHydreigon in this spot. While it was great at catching opponents off guard, I needed a more reliable check to Rotom-W, Keldeo, and Terrakion. Latias was the perfect remedy to these issues. It also has excellent offensive synergy with the rest of the team. Together with Salamence, the two form a formidable double-Dragon offensive core that is capable of weakening each other's counters for a sweep. Likewise, Latias has great synergy with Jirachi since they cover a lot of each other's elemental weaknesses. It can also lure in Ferrothorn for Jirachi to setup on and it can weaken special walls, such as Gastrodon and Blissey, with Psyshock. Furthermore, Latias lures in Tyranitar which Terrakion can switch-in on, possibly gaining a Justified boost in the process. Besides being a threatening offensive force, Latias is also my main check to several Pokemon. It's my main answer to Rotom-W which can be a nuisance to this team, especially the Choice Scarf variants. Latias is capable of avoiding a 2HKO from Rotom's rain-boosted Hydro Pump, even after Stealth Rock damage, and threatening to 2HKO it with Dragon Pulse. Latias is also a solid answer to Volt-Turn in general since it easily checks Rotom-W and non-Scarf Landorus, while Scizor risks being 2HKO'd by Surf. Thundurus-T, Keldeo, Virizion, Terrakion, Mienshao, Venusaur, and Infernape are also easily checked by Latias. The moveset is fairly straightforward. Dragon Pulse is Latias' primary STAB move. I prefer it over Draco Meteor for reliability and consistency. Psyshock provides secondary stab, capable of denting special walls like Blissey and Gastrodon. Surf is actually Latias' strongest attack under the Rain and it's a great move to spam while opposing Steel types are still present. Roost significantly increases Latias's survivability and offsets Life Orb's recoil damage. TERRAKION @ Choice Band Justified \| Jolly (+Spe, -SpA) 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe - Close Combat - Stone Edge - X-Scissor - Earthquake Say hello to one of the best wall-breakers in the game. Thanks to its monstrous power and STAB moves, only a handful of walls can take repeated hits from it. Thus, it shouldn't be surprising that Terrakion's purpose on this team is to crush opposing walls. It eliminates special walls like Blissey/Chansey, Tyranitar, and Gastrodon that would wall Latias and Jirachi. Likewise, it muscles through physical walls so that Salamence has an easier time finishing them off for a late-game Moxie sweep. Terrakion also makes a great switch-in to opposing weather inducers since Ninetales, Tyranitar, and Abomasnow are all weak to one of its STABs. Close Combat and Stone Edge have excellent coverage so they are usually the only moves I use. However, X-Scissor and Earthquake have their uses. For example, X-Scissor can revenge kill Celebi while Earthquake can revenge kill CM Jirachi and Toxicroak. There's not much else I can say about Terrakion. It does what it needs to do and it does it very well. SALAMENCE @ Choice Scarf Moxie \| Jolly (+Spe, -SpA) 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe - Outrage - Dragon Claw - Earthquake - Brick Break Salamence's primarily role is to act as my revenge killer. It's crucial for checkings things like Terrakion, Starmie, Latios/Latias, and other speedy threats that would otherwise plow through this team. It also helps a lot against Sun teams since its typing grants it key resistances to the Fire, Grass, and Bug attacks that they commonly carry. However, since Salamence has a Stealth Rock weakness, I try to play conservatively with it early game, only bringing it out if absolutely needed. Revenge killing is not all that Salamence is capable of doing. It is also one of the deadliest late-game cleaners in the metagame thanks to its destructive ability, Moxie. After a Moxie boost, Salamence essentially has the equivalent of 1 Dragon Dance boost thanks to Choice Scarf. Even though the Choice Scarf set is very popular these days, some opponents still don't suspect it, so getting a free Moxie boost against something like Latios isn't uncommon at all. Moxie also punishes opponents that use death fodder in order to bring in their Salamence check safely. Outrage is the move I spam late game when cleaning up. However, Dragon Claw is useful early game to prevent locking myself in or if I cannot risk getting confused by Outrage. Earthquake and Brick Break aren't used often but they are useful for revenge killing certain threats. Brick Break is particularly useful for breaking Dual Screens. I opted for a Jolly nature over Adamant to speed tie with things like Offensive Volcarona and opposing Scarf/+1 DD Salamence, as well as outspeeding Jolly Scarf Darmanitan/Haxorus. SKARMORY @ Leftovers Sturdy \| Careful (+SpD, -SpA) 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD - Brave Bird - Roost - Whirlwind - Stealth Rock Skarmory is the team's defensive backbone as it covers many threats that the rest of the team cannot handle. Using a Specially Defensive EV spread allows it to function as an effective mixed wall, especially when Rain nullifies its Fire weakness. This allows Skarmory to check a myriad of threats on both sides of the spectrum. On the special side, it can easily check Tornadus-T, NP Celebi, Hydreigon, CM Reuniclus, SubDisable Gengar, and CM Virizon, among others. Skarmory is also surprisingly good at taking unboosted Rotom-W's Volt Switch so it can also handle VoltTurn teams effectively. Despite the lack of physical defense investment, Skarmory is still very capable of checking many common physical attackers. These include non-Taunt variants of Gliscor, Mamoswine, Scizor, and LumDD/CB Dragonite. Furthermore, Skarmory can wall a variety of mixed attackers, such as Mixed Salamence (assuming Rain is up), Expert Belt Landorus, Tyranitar, and Abomasnow. Besides checking the aforementioned threats, Skarmory has the all-important duty of setting up Stealth Rock. In addition to securing certain KOs, Stealth Rock is also crucial for weakening Volt-Turn cores as well as keeping deadly sweepers like Dragonite and Volcarona at bay. I would have liked to use Spikes but Skarmory is the only Pokemon on this team that has room for Stealth Rock in its moveset. Besides, Spikes usually goes to waste if my opponent has a Rapid Spinner. The EVs are entirely oriented towards Special Defense since Skarmory's Defense is already naturally high. THREAT LIST Fast special attackers like Tornadus-T, LO Latios/Latias, LO Alakazam, and Starmie are difficult to play around. Salamence can revenge kill them but something has to be sacrificed to bring it in safely. Latias can usually tank a hit from the aforementioned special attackers if it's healthy enough. Jellicent, Scarf Rotom-W, and Gastrodon aren't huge threats but they can be annoying if played correctly. Importable Politoed (F) @ Choice Specs Trait: Drizzle EVs: 216 HP / 252 SAtk / 40 Spd Modest Nature IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk - Hydro Pump - Ice Beam - Focus Blast - Hidden Power [Grass] Terrakion @ Choice Band Trait: Justified EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Jolly Nature - Close Combat - Stone Edge - X-Scissor - Earthquake Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Moxie EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Jolly Nature - Outrage - Dragon Claw - Earthquake - Brick Break Latias (F) @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Dragon Pulse - Psyshock - Surf - Roost Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Careful Nature - Brave Bird - Roost - Whirlwind - Stealth Rock Jirachi @ Leftovers Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Substitute - Calm Mind - Thunder - Flash Cannon __________________ Euphoria Last edited by Bribery; Sep 2nd, 2012 at 9:20:49 PM. Reason: Updated for BW2

Apr 28th, 2012, 11:38:59 PM	#7
Bribery Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 275 Toronto, Ontario	Bumping because I revamped the entire team. It's completely different, but I didn't want to make a new thread since it's still a Rain offense team. I think it's more consistent than the previous team and it uses more uncommon sets. __________________ Euphoria

Apr 29th, 2012, 6:38:18 AM	#8
Tomahawk9 Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,439	cool team as always, typing this for the third time so hopefully my phone will let me post this time -.- Try bronzong over skarmory, esp since youre not using spikes. Its a better defensive backbone imo since it has better overal bulk, no weaknesses in the rain and its a better dragon counter since they cant really hurt you and you can actually retaliate with a 225 bp gyro ball or a 4x se hp ice. Moveset is sr / gyro ball / eq / hp ice, ev spread is 252 hp / 116 def / 140 sdef sassy iirc but you can adjust to your likings. Bronzong also helps with tornadus and lati@s which can be threats as you mentioned. Btw, your team seems rather weak to sdcroak, so use eq over qa on terrakion so you at least have a way of reliably revenge killing it. __________________ C&C Work \| Smog Work

Apr 29th, 2012, 8:06:50 AM	#9
DestinyUnknown Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,099 Spain	Good team Bribery! Your team is pretty solid in general, though the lack of a good Fighting resistance hurts it a bit. I agree with Tomahawk9 in that you should use Bronzong over Skarmory, as it takes Special Attacks better while not compromising too much its physical bulk. Also, you aren't using spikes which is Skarmory main advantage. This Bronzong set: Bronzong@Leftovers \| Levitate Nature Relaxed (Speed Iv 0) \| 252 Hp / 128 Def / 128 SpD Stealth Rock Gyro Ball Earthquake Toxic The ev spread doesn't acomplish anything, it just made to get a jump point on physical defense. I would also go with Draco Meteor>Dragon Claw and Fire Blast>Brick Break on Salamence, while changing its nature to Naive. With this change, you can still hit Ferrothorn and Skarmory if something goes wrong, while Draco Meteor hits threats such as Tangrowth and Gliscor really hard (doing upwards to 60%), and it's in general better than Dragon Claw since Draco Meteor hits harder than Dragon Claw unless you're staying in more than 2 turns (and your better using Outrage in that case). Also, running a +Speed nature allow you to revenge kill Jolly Dragon Dance Haxorus, which can run rampant through your team otherwise. Finally, I suggest using Earthquake on Terrakion over Quick Attack, to get the KO on SubCM Jirachi and Tentacruel reliably as well as being able to revenge kill Toxicroak. __________________

May 4th, 2012, 12:29:39 PM	#15
Bribery Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 275 Toronto, Ontario	Okay, after a bit of testing, I've decided to replace Hydreigon with LO Latias. Admittedly, it's not as good as keeping the pressure on the opponent as Hydreigon was (nor is it as cool :P ). However, it helped patch a lot of the issues this team was having, such as Terrakion and Scarf Rotom-W. I decided to use it instead of Latios because the extra bulk was more helpful than the extra power. For example, Latios is 2hko'd after SR by Rotom's Hydro Pump in the Rain whereas Latias isn't. __________________ Euphoria

Apr 10th, 2012, 8:33:28 PM	#2
AnonymousAgent Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 3	i've been playing this team a lot today and i really like it, although one problem i found with it is that it has few ways to deal with bulky grass types, particularly SubSeed Jellicent and, when Politoed is KO'd, Chllorophyll Venasaur. i've yet to figure out a solution, as HP fire on either toed or starmie is just a bad idea.

Apr 11th, 2012, 6:45:05 AM	#4
~~Fried Rhys~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 464 North Carolina	i've never really liked the idea of running scarftoed alongside starmie. the reason being starmie revenges most of what politoed can, barring alakazam and dugtrio, neither of whom are really issues for your team. you can instead use a specs politoed as a wallbreaker which focuses more on blasting through water resists and other possible starmie checks/counters. this would also help with any conkeldurr issues you're having. specs politoed gets a guaranteed ohko on conkeldurr. if you make this change you'd probably want to run recover on starmie since some pressure has been lifted from politoed to revenge. you can ditch ice beam, as it's the least important moveslot. politoed will be hitting the grass types like celebi and the dragons like latios/latias hard enough to the point that a hydro pump from starmie will be more than enough to finish them off. magnezone looks really bad for this team to face, as it traps your only electric resist. the only other mon that can come in is dragonite, who actually lets it setup charge beams with dragon claw as its only attack. bulldoze > thunderwave on ferrothorn helps with this, and really eases the pain against dragmag teams or reuniclus + mag teams. bulldoze can also help against sub cm jirachi. it still 2hkoes the subs as power whip does but has perfect accuracy which can help when you're probably paralyzed by thunder. deterring heatran switch-ins is also nice, since it will often set up stealth rock which forces you to spin with starmie if you want dragonite to come in with multiscale activated. cool team though. hope this helps you get past your current peak.

Apr 12th, 2012, 8:45:23 AM	#5
Warahyuu Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12	Solid team but it does have issues with Bulk Up Fighting types. You mentioned Conkeldurr, but Bulk Up Breloom can also be a big threat. Nothing on your team can OHKO it once it sets up on Ferrothorn. Without changing the team too much, using Psychic over Ice Beam on Starmie will help patch up your Conkeldurr and Breloom weaknesses. It also gives you a more reliable way of revenge killing Terrakion.

Apr 29th, 2012, 2:31:41 PM	#10
HolyAvatar Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 66	The problem is that if he removes Skarmory, he wont have any phasing moves. This could be really dangerous. Skarmory is about spikes AND phasing.

Apr 29th, 2012, 11:31:25 PM	#11
victini493RMT Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 15	Wow man! I love this team. I was kinda wary of Fire Blast on Sub 3 Attack Hydreigon in Rain, but it catches so many people off guard who think that their Venusaur is safe. Gastrodon is a threat to watch out for, though, because you have no real safe switch in. If Encore isn't really needed for safe switches, I highly recommend Specs Politoed. I prefer a tankish set, as it is very successful in weather wars. It's also worth noting that you can outspeed Quiet Mixed Dragonite, while taking as little as possible from hazards. Politoed (M) @ Choice Specs Trait: Drizzle EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spe Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Hydro Pump - Ice Beam - Focus Blast - Hidden Power [Grass] Other than that, the team looks very solid and effective. :]

May 1st, 2012, 8:21:05 PM	#13
Warahyuu Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 12	I've been trying this team and it's solid. I tried LO Latios with Draco Meteor/Surf/Psyshock/Recover over Hydreigon and thought it was better. SubHydreigon is cool and all but this team lacks a decent fighting resistance - Terrakion is really deadly. Latios gives you a better way of revenge killing it. It handles Rotom-W much better than Hydreigon and it can nail Gastrodon with Psyshock.