|Apr 12th, 2012, 3:19:39 PM||#1|
Join Date: Feb 2011
I just wanna make u sweat (sun stall)
Hello everybody! I've always been kind of a stall oriented player. Weather seems to
dominate the metagame these days and there are many successful stall team styles
that exploit it: of course sand stall and rain stall are the most popular ones, but
even hail stall has some tricks available (read Stallrein). So I asked myself: what
about sun? Even the guide to sun playstyles states that sun stall isn't very viable
in OU, that it features Pokemon with very poor defensive typing, and furthermore,
while Tyranitar and Politoed can be really useful to the team, Ninetales, apart for
some tricks, puts you substantially one Pokemon down. Well, despite all this I
nonetheless tried to build a sun stall team. Sun stall probably isn't the most easy
of teamstyles to use but if played correctly it can cause many headaches and even
catch some opponent by surprise. I hope you guys can help me to spot what's wrong
with it and solve some doubts I had with some members of the team.
Also, if anybody can find a place in my team for a good Heatran check and a RELIABLE
Phazer please let me know.
THE WEATHER STARTER
Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SDef / 136 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
THE SPECIAL SPONGE
Blissey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
THE PHYSICAL WALL
Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Ice Fang
THE SPINNING AND SPIKING TANK
Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
- Gyro Ball
THE SPIN BLOCKER
Chandelure (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
THE EMERGENCY CHECK
Venusaur (M) @ Black Sludge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder
Last edited by Kingofgauls; Apr 19th, 2012 at 2:03:09 PM.
|Apr 12th, 2012, 4:20:19 PM||#2|
Join Date: Mar 2011
Run Chansey>blissey, as lefties aren't ao important with no sandstorm to worry about in theory
Run earthquake on Forretress over voltswitch for heatran switchins, also gives you a good chance of beating Tentacruel in the sun.
Run a Venusaur with earthquake for heatran and hidden power ice for dragons, or replace Venusaur with a Sawsbuck, as nature power ohkos heatran and double edge Koes Dragonite after rocks.
Also you might want to run toxic spikes on Forretress as tyranitar can switch in too easily IMO on your team and threaten them, fire blast for Forretress pursuit for Chandelure, ice beam for Gliscor, crunch for Ninetales and blissey.
|Apr 15th, 2012, 6:25:22 AM||#3|
Join Date: Feb 2011
Thanks for the rate.
Eviolite Chansey over Blissey in sun makes perfectly sense so I'm going to try it out.
About Earthquake on Forry, I'm a bit reluctant to drop Volt Switch because I find it very helpful in letting me switch to for example Ninetales without needing her to take damage. Also I've met a great amount of Magnezones, and against them Volt Switch is the only way to survive. Anyway I'll test it out as well along with T-spikes over Spikes, even if I never found TTar so much difficult to handle (maybe it's just that I haven't met yet a TTar with all those moves togheter and using careful switching and Protect I've managed to find whom it cannot damage.....).
I'm also reluctant to replace Venusaur with Sawsbuck because in my opinion it has not Saur's bulk, can't be sent in on a predicted Toxic or to absorb T-spikes and lacks Sleep Powder. So what would you drop to fit in Earthquake and HP Ice?
Also I noticed I badly need a reliable Phazer (Nine doesn't count) to counter stat up boosters which can be very dangerous if I don't manage to poison them. If anybody could find place for a phazer on my team please let me know.
|Apr 15th, 2012, 8:39:43 AM||#4|
Because I'm Yuno. fucking. Gasai.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Hi! I agree with chansey over blissey. Since you're primarily going to have the sun up, chansey will offer you much more survivability. If you wanted to keep your venusaur set the way it is, you could consider using air balloon on chandelure instead of leftovers. It would prevent any heatran that lacks hp ice or dragon pulse from hitting you at all, and you would 2hko (after rocks) any of the offensive variants that do carry one of those moves with hp fighting as long as you came in with your balloon in tact.
|Apr 15th, 2012, 5:43:33 PM||#5|
Join Date: Dec 2011
For my money the best Phazer in the game is Sableye with prankster. Priority taunt willow-wisp and recover makes him really hard to kill, than you can toss whatever move you want in the set. Max his hp and split the defense.
As for a heatran check, Gliscor walls all non hp ice variants, if he is giving you that much grief try making his speed 278, so you outrun all unscarfed trans and still keep some bulk.
Chansey and Blissey also wall Heatran so I don't see him being too much of an issue if you give Gliscor some speed and time your switch ins accordingly.
I don't like forretress on this team, mostly because I don't see you beating rain stall or rain offense pretty much ever. I'd suggest a boltbeam rapid spin starmie as it can really dent rain teams, scare the crap out Heatran and gives you some power and speed. Or tentacruel to spin and lay toxic spikes which can destroy a lot of teams, and most rain teams really cant dent him. Plus again a better check for Heatran.
Which allows you to take hidden power fighting off of chandelure and add energy ball or solar beam or calm mind which are all better options for him.
Good luck with your team! Sunstall is not an easy task!
|Apr 15th, 2012, 10:15:07 PM||#6|
and even after all my logic and my theory, i add a 'motherfucker' so you ignorant niggas hear me
Join Date: Feb 2012
Sableye can't phaze..
|Apr 16th, 2012, 6:58:45 PM||#7|
Join Date: Jun 2010
Hey Kingofgauls, nice team. Just a couple of things I would change.
For starters, as a few people have suggested, Chansey would perform its role better than Blissey, especially as you aren't taking advantage of Blissey's higher special attack, which is one of her main strengths over Chansey. Secondly, I would replace Stealth Rock with Protect on Chansey. This allows you to scout for trick users but primarily it allows you to guarantee Chansey can heal itself safely, because without leftovers Chansey can be worn down with repeated attacks and Protect allows her to maintain high HP better.
This now means you need a Stealth Rock user. Luckily, you're already using Forretress so it's a pretty easy fix. Although this leaves Forretress with a case of 4 moveslot syndrome when it comes to it's attacks, I think Gyro Ball would be it's best choice. Whilst you don't get to maul Heatran switch ins or maintain momentum with Volt Switch, it does act as a decent check to Landorus, who can currently to massive damage to any member of your team bar Forretress. It also helps out against the rare Gengar, who currently cant be touched by Blissey and can severely damage most of your team bar Forretress, unless it carries HP fire (meaning it doesn't have pain split, which leads to a rather odd stalemate).
Also, I would really consider changing your Ninetales set. Whilst it will catch the odd Politoed/Tyranitar off guard, Stealth Rock damage, Substitute and the possibility of Sandstorm damage can rack up quickly, meaning you will have trouble winning the weather war. Sunny day Ninetales is the most effective set at maintaining weather control, as it can put Politoed/Tyranitar into a tough position if they think they can switch in safely. Either switch out and subject themselves to more entry hazard damage or stay in and eat a SolarBeam, taking off a massive chunk of their health, if not straight out KO'ing them. You can still use Flamethrower as a consistent STAB move (Fire Blast misses suck) and in the last slot you can either run roar or Will-o-wisp. Roar can force more entry hazard damage and can prevent you being setup fodder for Dragonite/Volcarona. However Will-o-wisp will allow you to cripple Tyranitar switch ins as well as get some solid residual damage on Politoed switch ins, meaning the weather war will be that much easier to win.
The final change I'd like to suggest is replacing Venusaur with Lilligant. The main reason I suggest this is that you describe Venusaur as an emergency check, which Lilligant does just as well but Lilligant has an ace up it's sleeve: Healing Wish. With Healing Wish, you can bring a poke back in for free, regardless of entry hazard damage, and heal it of all damage and status. This gives one of your pokes a second chance at performing it's duties and with several rather frail pokes (Ninetales as a weather inducer, Chandelure as a Spinblocker) this could be crucial. It also gives another form of healing to your team, as most of your team lack a reliable recovery move. As this set won't be sweeping as much as Venusaur, Hidden Power Rock might be a good choice over Hidden Power Fire, as it allows Lilligant to check Volcarona and Dragonite more easily, allowing you to run W-o-W on Ninetales without many drawbacks.
So, in summary:
So those are my thoughts on the team, hope you found them helpful and good luck with the team.
|Apr 16th, 2012, 11:57:51 PM||#8|
Join Date: Nov 2011
Pretty nice sun team you got here with some interesting things. First off, looking at your team I can see Swords Dance Lucario with Crunch being a major threat to your team. After an SD, it is able to pretty much OHKO everything except for Gliscor and Forretress and Forry can't do much back. To check this threat, I would recommend changing Gliscor's EV spread to either 244 HP / 44 Def / 220 Spd with an Impish nature to outspeed Adamant Lucario or 244 HP /48 Def / 216 Spd with a Jolly nature to outspeed Jolly Lucario. This allows you to hit Lucario with Earthquake and take it out before it Ice Punch/Crunchs. Another suggestion for Gliscor is using Taunt over Protect. Currently, you are quite weak to stall, especially Chansey/Blissey as Gliscor is your only real physical attacker. Taunt will allow you to wear down the pink blobs gradually while preventing them from recovering with Softboiled or Wish. It also prevents stall teams from laying down hazards and statusing your Pokemon.
Another thing I noticed about your team is that it is quite weak to Dragon spam. Your only Steel type right now is Forretress who is usually beaten by dragons as they often carry Fire-type attacks (Dragonite with Fire Punch, Latios with Hidden Power Fire, etc.). I would recommend changing Forretress to a standard Donphan set. Donphan is still able to set up Stealth Rock and spin away hazards while having the advantage of a priority Ice Shard to check Dragon-types. Donphan also synergizes better with Sun teams as it is not 4x weak to Fire and also is able to better check common Sand team threats such as Tyranitar, Landorus, and Terrakion.
Next a few nitpicky changes I would recommend. First, I would suggest Chansey over Blissey. The reason for this is that you are running a Sun team and so you don't have to worry about your special wall from losing HP every turn to weather effects. This affords you the luxury of using Chansey as she is much bulkier than Blissey. Lastly, I would consider using Black Sludge over Wide Lens on Venusaur. Wide Lens is nice to boost the accuracy of Sleep Powder, however, the item is only benefiting one of his moves and the recovery from Black Sludge is much more valuable to allow greater survivability. Wide Lens is a neat item, but I feel that it is better suited on a Pokemon that uses multiple moves with less than perfect accuracy.
Hope I helped and good luck with your team!
|Apr 17th, 2012, 12:35:57 AM||#9|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Dude, being a fellow sun team user, I have only two changes to say: why have toxic on a gliscor when it can have a freaken swords dance? I used a gliscor with SD and it worked perfectly! Also forrtress needs stealth rock to take on the the threats charizard with solar power and moltres. But other then that, it's pretty good.
P.S. nice venusaur pic!:)
|Apr 17th, 2012, 2:13:55 AM||#10|
Join Date: Jun 2011
you said you needed a reliable phazer, so i suggest nidoqueen. nidoqueen can also set up toxic spikes, which helps with a stall team, and can hit hard with fire blast. it'd probably be best to use it over gliscor, but then you lose your ground immunity. do what you like, but keep nidoqueen in mind
I searched ninjas on Google
It said ninjas cannot be found
Well played ninjas
Very well played
RMT Arctic Wind
|Apr 19th, 2012, 1:56:05 PM||#11|
Join Date: Feb 2011
Thanks to everyone for your help! It's really appreciated!
So, by popular demand, Chansey will take the place of her elder sister.
Going back to your other suggestions I'm also testing:
Chandelure @ Air Balloon ; quite divided: the conservative choice would be to improve my survivability with Lefties, Air Balloon sometimes is a wasted item slot, sometimes it starts epic sweeps. Really don't know yet what to choose....
Sableye(prankster-WoW\Foul Play\Taunt\Recover) over Chandelure: the attacking power (guess what) is almost nullified, but it has many aces up his sleeve: screws up Reuniclus, burns dangerous dragons, lets me handle better stall with Taunt, with sun up can handle pretty well Tentacruel and Starmie. However I find it a bit too frail, can't really switch it in on anything bar immunities, and also Flash Fire was a useful addition....... Have to test more
Also about Chandelure I don't feel like replacing HP fighting with Energy Ball, Solar beam, etc. because it's a good check not only to Heatran but also to TTar.
Novaray's EV spread for Gliscor: kind of a mixed bag... lose some capacity to switch in taking almost no damage to gain some more outspeeds and kills..... I'll test more.
Taunt over Protect: it works very well. The only downside is that I can't switch in on TTar and see if it carries Ice Beam until it kills me. If i decide to use Sableye over Chandelure I'll stick with Protect, if not Taunt>Protect is going to happen.
I'll also test Swords Dance over Protect.
Black Sludge on Saur: good point. More survivability is always appreciated and anyway Sleep Powder missed a lot with Lenses too.
Lilligant over Saur: don't really know, does almost the same things but doesn't absorb T-Spikes..... About Healing Wish still have to try more because I'm still not very accustomed to use it....
Sunny Day Ninetales: that's also probably going to happen. I'm still working on it because I'd like to keep Substitute on it (just personal preference).
Donphan\Starmie\Tentacruel over Forretress: theoretically I'd be favourable to get rid of Forry. However keep in mind that he's my only steel type, so useful resist to Dragon, immunity to poison,etc... Also if I chose Donphan or Starmie I would also lose spikes which are a huge help for my team since it's stall. If you can suggest me a steel mon or a good spiker to replace another member of my team, then replacing forretress wouldn't be a problem.....
Nidoqueen: I am aware of her fantastic capabilities and I already thought about her during teambuilding, but I couldn't really find a place to fit her in. Maybe I should try her over Saur.
Other changes I'm testing at the moment:
Cresselia @ Flame Orb _ Trick\Moonlight\Ice Beam\Reflect over Gliscor. I'm really appreciating her walling capabilities, in my opinion she isn't that much inferior to Gliscor. Tricking a Flame Orb might seem gimmicky but i assure you that it's really unexpected and stops really cold physical sweepers. Furthermore it helps with those Rotoms always willing to give a scarf to Chansey. Ice Beam lets me better deal with dragons and Gliscor, and Moonlight in sun+Leftovers almost put me back to max health. If I'll choose to use Cresselia then I'll probably change Chansey moveset to Softboiled\Aromatherapy\Seismic Toss\Stealth Rock to remove the burn from Cress, and then if I have Aromatherapy I could even put rest on Tales. Tell me what you think about that.
Dragonite_Roost\D-tail\Fire Blast\Earthquake over Saur: I badly need a phazer and Venusaur seemed to me the less necessary team member. Multiscale+dragon type+Dnite's bulk makes it difficult to kill and it can Phaze while damaging to also rack up entry hazards damage, kill stuff with sun boosted FBlasts, and also eliminate Heatran threat with Earthquake. Feedback on this is also appreciated.
Sorry for the long post and if I forgot some suggestions.