CAP 3 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 2

[Deck Knight]

Moving onto the second poll of the concept stage, we must now narrow the slate down 1 entry at a time until only the winner remains. The lowest scoring concept in this poll will be removed and the top 3 will move on. I have left in my reasons for slating these concepts so that you can see what I see in them before casting your vote.

This poll will be a bold vote, which means that you vote for only one of the submissions. The details of bold voting can be found here. A typical vote might look like the following:

My Preferred Entry

If the voter wishes, he may post comments on his vote below the actual vote. As with IRV, only the vote itself should be bold and none of the supplementary text should be bold.

Please post only your votes in this thread. Do not respond to other posts, or your posts will be moderated and you warned. If you feel compelled to say something in your own vote, you may still do so, but don't try to incite a discussion. Keep discussion to #cap.

This poll will be open for 24 hours.

When voting, use only the name of the author! The list of possible votes include:

Theorymon
SubwayJ
Rising_Dusk
capefeather

Below are the concepts to be voted on, in the order they ranked in the last poll.

Originally Posted by Fat Theorymon

Name: Extreme Makeover: Typing Edition

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General Description: The idea here is to create a Pokemon who's typing, while normally considered poor defensively and/or offensively, becomes a strong selling point of the Pokemon itself via help from an ability, stats, and/or movepool.

Justification: There are a lot of typings we scoff at on a daily basis because of their serious flaws, often forgetting about their strong points. For example, Poison is a really terrible offensive typing, but a decent defensive typing, while the Ice typing is good offensively, but awful defensively. Instead of just accepting that some typings will just ruin a Pokemon, this CAP concept aims to take that "terrible typing", and find ways to fix it (usually via ability, movepool, or stats) to the point where the formerly terrible typing becomes the CAP's strong point! The reason this CAP could benefit OU is because a Pokemon who makes a "bad typing" into a great one could find many unique offensive and/or defensive niches that aren't currently found!

Questions To Be Answered

-What does it take for a Pokemon to overcome its "bad typing" so much that its typing becomes good? Are the stats the biggest contributer, is the ability the thing that saves it, does movepool make it a force, or is it a combination of the above?

-How does the typing makeover effect the Pokemon's playstyle? Does the Pokemon become a unique wall that uses its makeover to overcome its typing's normally fatal flaws, does the make over make a terrible offensive typing into a fearsome sweeper, does the makeover make it into a formidible combination of deffense and offense to a typing that brings it neither, or does the makeover bring forth something none of us see coming from the typing?

-Which resistances and immunities are the most relevant to the metagame? Sure, this concept is aiming to have a "bad typing" become good, but part of that will require the bad typing to have some key resistances and/or immunties to certain typings to defend against or set up on, while still having a very unorthodox competitive typing. This works the other way around too, what are the typings most relevant to hit super effectively or at least neutral?

-How will the rest of the OU metagame react to this extreme type makeover? Will Pokemon start carrying moves they normally wouldn't carry to break through a new defensive threat, will some Pokemon take on new defensive roles due to resisting the unorthodox STABs CAP 3 may carry? Or will This Pokemon, despite being a very real threat, not have many "custom made sets" to beat it, being more of a Pokemon that is a reaction to the metagame than causing a metagame reaction?

-Finally, how will this effect the teams CAP3 is on? Will this be the kind of Pokemon who needs a lot of support to become a threat, will this Pokemon be more of key team member to execute another strategy, or will this be the kind of Pokemon that's part of the glue that holds the team together?


Explanation:

Alright first let me get something out of the way: I don't exactly envision us making something like "another Volcarona", or "another Ho-Oh". Those two are more examples of Pokemon who succeed despite the problems their typing give them. While we could go that way, I envision this concept as more of a way to make a normally terrible typing good, not just a good Pokemon with a bad typing! Now some of you make think this concept could get a bit restrictive, but there are actually a LOT of ways this concept can go! I'll divide the rest of this Explanation into Defensive and Offensive examples, and also examples of Pokemon in existing metagames that illustrate what I'm talking about. Just one thing to note, these aren't the only possible ways a CAP under this concept can go! The below are just merely examples of how we could form this CAP, there are plenty of other avenues this CAP could go and explore that I don't mention!

Defensive

-The first thing that will probably come to mind when it comes to giving a bad defensive typing a make over is giving it an ability that gives it an immunity to a 4x weakness, abilities like Levitate, Sap Sipper, Flash Fire, Water Absorb, Lighting Rod, etc. This is certainly a direction this CAP can go, because there are plenty of typings that are considered terrible on a Pokemon just because its stats don't gel with a nasty 4x weakness!

-When it comes to abilities, there are others that can aid the quest of turning a bad typing into a good one! The most obvious example is Magic Guard on a Pokemon that has the often ruining 4x Stealth Rock weakness, but this isn't the only way! Another solid example that isn't seen at all in OU is Solid Rock, which could be perfect for a Pokemon who has a lot of nasty 2x weaknesses.

-Simply having stats in the right places can do wonders here in making a bad typing on paper become a good typing in practice! For example, lets look at Blissey and Chansey in OU. Normal is a pretty bleh typing, in fact these two are the only Normal types in OU! However, that massive SpD is what shows the strength of Normal being neutral to almost everything and having only one weakness!

-Solstice brought up a pretty good point on IRC that I forgot to mention! Having resists in the right places can be a huge help! The great example he brought up was Celebi. Celebi has 7 weakneses, including a nasty 4x weak to Bug. What made Celebi OU (and makes it work in Ubers hehehehehehe) is that it brings along aweome resistances to common attacking types like Water, Ground, and Fighting, and it certainly has the movepool to take advantage of these kinds of resistances!

-There is also one great example of a Pokemon in OU and Ubers, who's typing, while normally pretty bad defensively, works wonders because of its ability: Tyranitar! Dark / Rock has a normally devastating 6 weaknesses, including weakneses to common types like Water, Fighting, and Ground. What really saves Tyranitar here is of course, the SpD boost it gets from Sandstream. This, in combination with its great defensive stats, makes Tyranitar FAR more difficult to take down than it seems! Combine that with great offensive stats, and being one of the best Pursuiters around, and you have a great example of a Pokemon turning a normally terrible typing into one hell of an asset!

Offensive

This concept may seem like it would be very biased defensively, but thats not the case, there are plenty of ways to make this CAP focused on offense!

-Sometimes, a great move is what can turn a bad typing on a Pokemon into a good one! I'm guessing a lot of you are thinking "Like Quiver Dance on Volcarona?", and while that is an example in some ways, I have another example that some of you might not expect: the classic god of Pokemon, Mewtwo! Last generation in Ubers, Mewtwo's typing actually really sucked, it had a terrible stab plenty of Pokemon resisted, to the point where it didnt even bother using a STAB, AND it also had a pretty meh defensive typing too! That all changed this generation when Mewtwo got Psystrike, the 100 BP Psyshock clone. Because of Psystrike, Mewtwo has become one of the most fearsome mixed sweepers in Pokemon history, suffering none of the consequences most mixed attackers do, and in the process, making a Psychic resistance extremely important and a Psychic weakness a very big flaw unlike last generation! So TL;DR, giving a Pokemon the right offensive movepool can go a long way twords making its bad typing become good!

-We could go with a Pokemon that has a great defensive typing, but a terrible offensive typing. The catch here is that this would actually be an offensive Pokemon, that uses its defensive typing to either launch off powerful attacks or set up. A great example of an already existing Pokemon that does this is none other than Steel Arceus in Ubers! While Mono Steel is still a great defensive type, its a pretty sucky offensive typing. Steel Arceus gets away with being offensive anyways as an awesome Calm Minder, it uses its great defensive typing to set up, and takes advantage of the fact that Steel effects every type to use Judgement as its only attack, and use a nice support move like Roar in the last slot!

-Offensive Abilities can also go a long way twords making a bad typing into a good typing! A great example that user Deck Knight has mentioned a couple times is a Rock / Fire type with Rock Head. Normally, Rock / Fire reminds us of how much Magcargo really sucks, but imagine if Magcargo had Flare Blitz and Head Smash? Sure it'd still have an SR weakness and a 4x weakness to water and ground, but it'd sure be able to hit hard!

-To expand on the point made above, having stats in the right places can go a long way twords making a Pokemon with a bad typing appealing, ESPECIALLY SPEED! Lets bring up that hypothetical Rock / Fire Pokemon again. If we want to make this thing offensive, why not give it lots of speed to make it so it can hit stuff before getting nuked by a Surf? Making the Pokemon super fast isn't guaranteed either. For example, we could make something like a bulky Dark / Psychic Pokemon with just enough speed so it could reasonably out speed most Scizor, and then Fire Blast its ass!

Originally Posted by Fat SubwayJ

Name: Double Team (not the move)

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Description:
In tandem, we create a NFE, and a FE mon, both competitively designed, but for different roles and release both upon the metagame.

Justification: Two Pokemon, same (or similar) typing, but two completely different roles. If we release two Pokemon, one Defensive (eviolite) and the other offensive, we can truly test how effective a certain type (combination) can be. Also we can test how Offensively viable and Defensively viable a certain type is. We can also see how mons with the same movepool choose different moves based on their stats or orientation (offensive/defensive)

Questions to be answered:

•Will these Pokemon effectively teach us how effective a Type is?
•Despite being the same type, will these Pokemon be effective on the same team?
•Which of the Pokemon will prove more useful, or will they be used equally?
•Will releasing two Pokemon on the metagame shake it up more than one would
•Will the same Pokemon counter both CAP's or will they be different?

Explenation: Many people when they look at my concept may think, "We'd pretty much have 2 of the same Pokemon," or, "Won't the 2 CaP's be Identical?" (Or in Wyverii's case "Kill Deck Knight!") however there are many cases of pokemon with the same types having VERY different roles. Take Landorus and Gliscor for example, both are OU, both are Flying/Ground, however they are VERY different Pokemon! One is clearly offensively based, and the other defensively. Both are the same type, but they both have their OWN impact on the metagame!

If we release 2 different Pokemon with the same type, we can see how effective a "Double Team" is on the metagame. Something never previously done. We have no idea where this could go, but it gives us two competitively viable Pokemon, the only restriction being 1 offense, 1 defense.

In conclusion, we could have much to gain releasing 2 different CAP's on the metagame, also it allows more Create-A-Pokemon goodness! (and who doesn't love that???)

Originally Posted by Fat Rising Dusk

Concept: The Deceiver

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Description: A Pokemon that is built around concealing information from the opponent or misinforming the opponent in a generation where information is more readily available than ever.

Justification: Information became very difficult to hide from your opponent in the generation shift for many reasons. The most eminent reason of the lot is team preview. Now you get to see your opponent's pinch sweeper Lucario, or the Electivire to your opponent's Gyarados, or whether they're running stall or offense, or which weather they're running. These things were all concealed from us prior to BW. Additionally, with being able to choose a lead, the concept of a no-lead metagame has made BW even more about team synergy and less about concealing information.

I'm not convinced, however. There are still many ways to hide information, just nothing serious in the metagame that takes advantage of it. I think exploring the idea of information as a concept driver would result in a very unique, diverse, and productive experience for a BW CAP both in the process and in the result.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Can information be concealed effectively from your opponent to give you the upper hand when you finally "reveal your hand" as it were?
• What sort of information is the most feasible to conceal from your opponent? The least feasible?
• What methods best facilitate the obfuscation of information?
• Which is more viable, misleading your opponent or simply leaving them guessing entirely?
• Which items and styles of play best suit a Pokemon that focuses on concealing information? Would defensive, offensive, or balanced be more appropriate?
• Does the threat of a lack of information require a diverse movepool, or can it be achieved through other means?

Explanation: CAP is where we explore concepts that don't get much or any gametime in real Pokemon. This concept came to me as soon as BW was introduced and the changes were made that included team preview and choosing a lead. I immediately asked myself: "But wait, what if you could still hide all of this information from your opponent? Would that put the fear back into the players?" Hiding information was something so pivotal for DPP OU, and I think being able to bring it back to BW OU would change the way we look at an otherwise predictable metagame.

There are many obvious ways to hide information. We employ a few of these strategies still, such as Expert Belt to hide under the guise of being choice-locked. This is based in misdirection, not obfuscation. The difference between these two types of information will need to be discussed at length by the community, but forms the basic principle of the flow of information to and from players. Obfuscation is something like having a diverse movepool such that an opponent cannot predict your set. Perhaps having diverse coverage, or diverse support options. Perhaps, even, having a diverse typing through the use of Multitype. On the other hand, the epitome of misdirection might be Illusion; your opponent thinks you're a completely different Pokemon altogether! What then if you have both Zoroark and CAP 3 on your team? Complete anarchy! As you can see, there are a wide variety of ways that we can handle a CAP based on deception and hiding information. I hope that this has piqued your all's interest as much as it has captivated me for countless months as I waited for the opportunity to present this concept to you.

Enter the deceiver.

Originally Posted by Fat capefeather

Name: Break the Mold 2

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Description: This Pokémon uses one or more moves or abilities in unconventional ways.

Justification: Many moves and abilities are good for one function and one function only (e.g. Swords Dance, Huge Power). However, some moves and abilities are more ambiguous, either because of subtle mechanical quirks (e.g. Nature Power bypassing Sucker Punch), or because of multiple effects (e.g. Drizzle being used for stall), or because the main effect of a move or ability does not entirely favor one tactical style (e.g. Agility on defensive Pokémon). This concept aims to explore alternate, neglected roles of moves and abilities, in order to gain a deeper understanding of how move and ability effects interact, as well as perhaps a greater appreciation for subtle game mechanics. It is also a throwback to the original Break the Mold (Stratagem), which aimed to break flavor stereotypes of Pokémon typings. It is important to keep in mind that this concept is about rethinking moves and abilities themselves, NOT about rethinking the kinds of Pokémon that can use certain moves or abilities.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Will "breaking the mold" create a new niche in the metagame, or will it force us to rethink an existing one?
• How will using a move or ability in a different way change the way we look at existing Pokémon that also use said move or ability?
• Is it easier to use a primarily offensive effect in a defensive manner, or vice versa?
• How can a move or ability be used in a role that is not outclassed by a different move or ability that seems more tailored for said role?
• How do moves/abilities that seem one-dimensional differ from moves/abilities that actually are one-dimensional?
• Could certain move/ability combinations be exploited to "break the mold" with multiple possible sets?
• Is there really more to certain move or ability effects than what we think of them?
• Can conventional niches for moves and abilities "coexist" with unconventional ones?

Explanation:

New ways of looking at moves and abilities change the metagame, and we have ample proof of this in the development of OU and other metagames. People once found "rain stall" a baffling concept. Now it's commonplace. Speed was once considered entirely an offensive trait. Now we have "quickstall" (okay, Ubers, but still) and even individual defensive Pokémon using Speed to their advantage (Deoxys-D even uses Agility sometimes).

One occurrence that gave me this idea was the inclusion of Nature Power in Tomohawk's movepool. At the time of its development, I was just amused by the weird properties of Nature Power. But what if Prankster Nature Power as a combo were put onto a Pokémon more able to use it highly effectively? This is just one example of several possibilities. Defensive Speed Boost? Sure! Offensive Prankster with Bulk Up / Calm Mind? Why not? Defensive Serene Grace? Okay, but don't say I didn't warn you! What about a defensive user of Arena Trap or Shadow Tag? Contrary could be a really fun ability to use for this, since it's often seen as a power sweeper's dream and yet there are lots of defensive options as well.

What I do not envision here is an ability that has a single role but is useful for both offense and defense. Something like Multiscale or Poison Heal, which are characterized as "defensive", would not be very good for this concept, because all they really do is reduce the overall damage the user has. An offensive Pokémon with such an ability (e.g. Dragon Dance Dragonite) is not really using it offensively, but rather, the ability is more of a "helper" that allows the Pokémon to do its "real" job more easily. What we want here is a re-imagining of the move or ability itself, NOT a focus on the Pokémon using it.

I've added a question to highlight this: "How do moves/abilities that seem one-dimensional differ from moves/abilities that actually are one-dimensional?" It's easy to see why Swords Dance and Shell Smash are one-dimensional. They boost offensive stats, and the latter even cuts defensive stats. It might be harder to see why moves/abilities like Prankster, Serene Grace, and Agility may not be one-dimensional. That is why I listed three avenues for fulfilling this concept in the justification, and all of them are important:

• Subtle mechanics
• Multiple effects
• Tactic-independent effects (e.g. Speed alteration)

It is a disservice to look at one and judge the concept on it. If it looks like this concept will lead to picking moves and abilities traditionally considered "broken", well, there's really nothing wrong with that in the end. In fact, it may be MORE insightful to work with traditionally "broken" effects. Honestly, I don't see how anyone can claim to be "ambitious" and then not see the merit in this concept on account of the possibility of legitimately bringing up really crazy abilities. People on IRC routinely come up with variations on this theme spontaneously. I think it's about time we acted on them.

Finally, I urge you to consider the reactions of people seeing a CAP like this for the first time, and getting completely baffled. Say, they thought it would be an offensive Pokémon by quickly looking at its ability or movepool, only to find that it's actually a mean stall Pokémon. Would that not be hilarious? Come on, I dare you not to laugh. (It would also be rather impeccable timing considering we're waiting for an actual sequel to shake up the OU metagame.)

Each of these options presents a great opportunity to make a truly unique, unorthodox CAP. I leave it to the voters.

Make your Decision!

[Flarephoenix332]

Theorymon

[jas61292]

Theorymon

[phoopes]

Theorymon

Tough choice for me between Theorymon, Rising_Dusk, and capefeather, but I like this concept too much to not vote for it. It'll be really cool to see one of the "shunned" offensive or defensive typings become good if voted for.

[Wobbanaut]

Theorymon

[Quanyails]

SubwayJ

[Birkal*]

Theorymon

[verbatim]

SubwayJ

[ikasu]

SubwayJ

[Rising_Dusk]

Rising_Dusk

[RitterCat]

Theorymon

[Jellicent*]

SubwayJ

[SalTheThief]

Theorymon

[Fisdunction]

SubwayJ

[Straw Hat]

Theorymon

[GRs Cousin]

capefeather

[Kwihll]

SubwayJ

[SubwayJ]

SubwayJ

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Theorymon

[Jebus McAzn]

SubwayJ

Damn, the more I think about these, the harder it is to decide. I'd honestly be happy with any one of these, but for now, I think I'm going to vote for...

Theorymon

SubwayJ

[tea_and_blues]

Theorymon

[Deck Knight]

SubwayJ

[Argorine]

Theorymon