BW: Dark Explorers Discussion - Page 2

***Mekkah***** · May 1st, 2012, 6:16:10 PM

Pokemon Communication is about ten times faster. The issue with LEGENDS was never just having to search them out (although it was part of it). It's that their attacks aren't strong enough to offset their double weaknesses, double prize surrender, and high energy costs. Some exceptions have surfaced here and there (hello RDL), but Venusaur is not going to help them any.

Raikou EX is overrated, way too vulnerable to Terrakion.

Purimpopoie · May 1st, 2012, 7:40:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Mekkah

Pokemon Communication is about ten times faster. The issue with LEGENDS was never just having to search them out (although it was part of it). It's that their attacks aren't strong enough to offset their double weaknesses, double prize surrender, and high energy costs. Some exceptions have surfaced here and there (hello RDL), but Venusaur is not going to help them any.

Raikou EX is overrated, way too vulnerable to Terrakion.

Just an addendum to the bolded part, but Lugia and Ho-Oh don't cough up two prizes when pummeled. Otherwise, this is an accurate assessment of Pokemon LEGEND.

FearZeCrawdaunt · May 4th, 2012, 2:27:03 PM

It's interesting actually, there are a few people who have really wanted to toy around with Lugia because of it's godly attack power (200 attack! WOW). I mean... what other pokemon can guaranteed 1HKO any EX they wanted?

It's poke-power charges it a bit, but with Cards like Research Record and Legend Box, it becomes more possible to charge up a Lugia Legend. Super Rod gets to return cards too. A lot of people are picturing the deck trying to just mill itself out and then Legend Box for Lugia. Others are looking to a Typhlosion/Eel build where you manually attach the water. With Blend energy pending release, provided Lugia is still around, it could be pretty great.

Dragonking700 · May 5th, 2012, 9:26:24 PM

I think the metagame will be much more balanced now, with more deck choices and more decks that counter each other.
Mewtwo still sucks though... :P

blaZofgold · May 8th, 2012, 10:17:59 AM

With all the boosts to Dark Type Pokemon (Dark Patch for massive speed-setup and Dark Claw for +20 dmg), Darkrai EX has a pretty legit chance of setting up SUPER fast. Plus, just check out all the Dark type pokes in HGSS. T-tar Prime? You could probably get that thing going in 3 turns or less.

zero2exe · May 8th, 2012, 10:25:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat blaZofgold

With all the boosts to Dark Type Pokemon (Dark Patch for massive speed-setup and Dark Claw for +20 dmg), Darkrai EX has a pretty legit chance of setting up SUPER fast. Plus, just check out all the Dark type pokes in HGSS. T-tar Prime? You could probably get that thing going in 3 turns or less.

Oh right I completely forgot about tyranitar :3 Still I doubt it'll see much use since there's a lot of basic or stage 1 cards taking those slots as stage 2 lines take too much space in a deck. I'd rather fill my side with Zoroarks, Sableyes and Darkrai Ex and then unleash 120 Dmg. Brutal Bash everywhere + dark claw which almost doesn't even require Dark patch for 1-turn setup ._.

FearZeCrawdaunt · May 8th, 2012, 12:46:04 PM

TTar doesn't take 3 turns to set up even now :(

I had a speed TTar deck that just aimed to spread 20 everywhere really quickly. It had a pretty consistent T2 TTar spreading and focused on Max Potion to heal off the damage, since you were only using 1 energy. And when necessary you could drop a DCE for more heavy damage, or for a Zekrom/Reshiram/Kyurem Outrage (after they'd taken some Darkness Howl Damage).

Dark Patch might make TTar a more instant threat to Megaton Tail though, if that's what you mean?

Kalyst · May 8th, 2012, 10:05:56 PM

I don't know if anyone mentioned it but Sneasel/Weavile UD is not a bad choice in a Dark.dec thats running DEX Zororak to power his secondary attack. You'd have to run a nice chunk of darks though for him. And I dunno why, but I keep hearing how some people don't want to run the BW Zororak even though he's got that neat little advantage of copying X-Ball (If it's even floating around anymore after Darkrai lol) and his Nasty Plot searches out for any card in your deck.

In a fast passed meta, while T-tar prime looks promising, (and I really wanted to run it) I felt it made the build I wanted too clogged. Instead I'm opting for some Absol Prime fun until rotation, but I'm crossing my fingers hoping it doesn't happen by the end of this year's World's. The only reason for me running Absol Prime is for getting the extra damage on benching Tynamo's, making the 40 HP variants obsolete (until they evolve of course T_T) The low HP though makes me worried with all the T2 beaters around like Tornadus EX.

I love the little psedo Junk Arm we get in Sableye, albiet only for Item cards, not Trainers. But what you CAN Junk Hunt for is amazing-Revives, Patches, Claws,"Balls" (for the ball engine of course :P ) etc.

As a side note, Aero w/ Twist Mountain isn't as bad if you pair it w/ Tornadus EX and Sky Arrow bridge (or Darkrai if you're scared of trainer lock). The two have surprising synergy together and wouldn't be surprised if people ran a deck like that.

FearZeCrawdaunt · May 9th, 2012, 12:33:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Kalyst

I don't know if anyone mentioned it but Sneasel/Weavile UD is not a bad choice in a Dark.dec thats running DEX Zororak to power his secondary attack. You'd have to run a nice chunk of darks though for him. And I dunno why, but I keep hearing how some people don't want to run the BW Zororak even though he's got that neat little advantage of copying X-Ball (If it's even floating around anymore after Darkrai lol) and his Nasty Plot searches out for any card in your deck.

BW Zoroark sounds like a fun idea, but then you realize you're usually Brutal Bashing for more than BW Zoroark is ever going to do with Foul Play. And it becomes not worth it. If you ever have to use Nasty Plot... you've probably lost... And Mewtwo is too amazing a card to disappear just because a Pokemon with 20 resistance shows up.

Quote:

I love the little psedo Junk Arm we get in Sableye, albiet only for Item cards, not Trainers. But what you CAN Junk Hunt for is amazing-Revives, Patches, Claws,"Balls" (for the ball engine of course :P ) etc.

Items and trainers, potato potahto. They're the same thing. Technically Vileplume's trainer lock should be referred to as Item-Lock and Junk Arm should be errata'd to say "Items" because they made Supporters a class of Trainer in BW. So now we have Trainer-Items, Trainer-Supporters and Trainer-Stadiums. :)

And yeah, I think this metagame is interesting. "Item-Lock" seems like a very high-risk high-reward strategy at the moment. In such a fast-paced metagame, you're likely to get donked or wind up too far behind to offset your slow start. But if your opponent doesn't come out swinging immediately (or if you have a great start too), then all the decks out right now running ball engines and like... 30-40 trainers will just start crying. The game is wide open for Item Lock to destroy it, but with only Zebstrika, Vileplume and Gothitelle (Teddiursa CL if you want) available to Item Lock, it's difficult to keep up with people's speed and power.

Misdreavus · May 11th, 2012, 1:28:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Mekkah

Pokemon Communication is about ten times faster. The issue with LEGENDS was never just having to search them out (although it was part of it). It's that their attacks aren't strong enough to offset their double weaknesses, double prize surrender, and high energy costs. Some exceptions have surfaced here and there (hello RDL), but Venusaur is not going to help them any.

Raikou EX is overrated, way too vulnerable to Terrakion.

Agreed. Raikou's sniping ability isn't that useful in a format with Catcher and Junk Arm. It's nice against trainer lock, but that's about it. Speaking of trainer lock, FearZeCrawdaunt hit the nail on the head when he described it as a "high-risk, high-reward strategy." Gothitelle just doesn't cut it though. It's WAY too easily killed (hello Mewtwo, Darkrai, etc.). Vileplume is the way to go. If you can avoid the donk and get a quick Playground (Pichu HS) with a Twins in your hand, you should be good. A friend of mine played a rogue Vileplume deck at GA Regionals, and every one of his 3 losses were donks at the hands of CMT.

Twannes · May 14th, 2012, 1:42:01 PM

All meta decks get an upgrade in DEX and we get a new archetype altogether.

Zeels gets Tornadus EX and Raikou EX (which is overhyped, but still great)
CMT gets Tornadus EX which gives it even more donking potentail
Terrakion can use Groudon EX or the new hammer (if you dont own Lost Remover) but will see more play because of the new fightin weak deck out there.
And then we get Dark.dec, which can be either Zoroark DEX/Darkrai EX or Darkrai EX/Tornadus EX.

Also about Raikou, people think catcher just beats Raikou, but you only have a max of 4 (or even 8, Junk Arm huh) of them and there are moments where you do have a way to get Raikou out other than netting a catcher. I have had a situation already where I damaged an EX early game with Thundurus and i could finish it off with Raikou EX. Also, what is noteworthy, is that Raikou EX is immune to N (and trainer lock). Yes that is right, IMMUNE to N!!! If an opponent N's you down to 1 or 2 cards then try to get your final Junk Arm/Catcher. Raikou can seal the deal by sniping a weak basic/damaged EX for the win. If you prepare it while taking a prise with another pokemon, you can prepare yourself for the possible N and snipe for the game.
All i'm saying is that indeed, Raikou EX is overhyped, but it isn't bad either.

asianaussie · May 21st, 2012, 5:43:23 AM

1) Catcher high-retreat/energyless Pokemon.
2) Snipe something else

Congratulations, you just used Raikou EX properly.

Raikou is also one of the only cards that can really abuse Max Potion. Weakness to Terrakion is a bad thing, but you'd never run a deck with Raikou and no Terrakion counter. See: Tornadus EX, which also has synergy with the Smeargle/Skyarrow Bridge engine too.

It's still not as good as say, Zekrom, if only because it gives up two prizes, but it's definitely a good card.

May 1st, 2012, 6:16:10 PM	#26
*Mekkah* pfbwowbfobwobwobfwowbf Administrator** Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,835 Most of them are good	Pokemon Communication is about ten times faster. The issue with LEGENDS was never just having to search them out (although it was part of it). It's that their attacks aren't strong enough to offset their double weaknesses, double prize surrender, and high energy costs. Some exceptions have surfaced here and there (hello RDL), but Venusaur is not going to help them any. Raikou EX is overrated, way too vulnerable to Terrakion. __________________ onions videos cameras models steroids dinoturtlethings

May 5th, 2012, 9:26:24 PM	#29
Dragonking700 Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 109 Yakima, WA	I think the metagame will be much more balanced now, with more deck choices and more decks that counter each other. Mewtwo still sucks though... :P __________________ Oppan Gangnam Style! 〈(￣ー￣)ノ

May 8th, 2012, 10:05:56 PM	#33
Kalyst Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 43 In my happy place...	I don't know if anyone mentioned it but Sneasel/Weavile UD is not a bad choice in a Dark.dec thats running DEX Zororak to power his secondary attack. You'd have to run a nice chunk of darks though for him. And I dunno why, but I keep hearing how some people don't want to run the BW Zororak even though he's got that neat little advantage of copying X-Ball (If it's even floating around anymore after Darkrai lol) and his Nasty Plot searches out for any card in your deck. In a fast passed meta, while T-tar prime looks promising, (and I really wanted to run it) I felt it made the build I wanted too clogged. Instead I'm opting for some Absol Prime fun until rotation, but I'm crossing my fingers hoping it doesn't happen by the end of this year's World's. The only reason for me running Absol Prime is for getting the extra damage on benching Tynamo's, making the 40 HP variants obsolete (until they evolve of course T_T) The low HP though makes me worried with all the T2 beaters around like Tornadus EX. I love the little psedo Junk Arm we get in Sableye, albiet only for Item cards, not Trainers. But what you CAN Junk Hunt for is amazing-Revives, Patches, Claws,"Balls" (for the ball engine of course :P ) etc. As a side note, Aero w/ Twist Mountain isn't as bad if you pair it w/ Tornadus EX and Sky Arrow bridge (or Darkrai if you're scared of trainer lock). The two have surprising synergy together and wouldn't be surprised if people ran a deck like that. __________________ STATUS: Will be attending VGC 2012!

May 14th, 2012, 1:42:01 PM	#36
Twannes Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 422 Netherlands	All meta decks get an upgrade in DEX and we get a new archetype altogether. Zeels gets Tornadus EX and Raikou EX (which is overhyped, but still great) CMT gets Tornadus EX which gives it even more donking potentail Terrakion can use Groudon EX or the new hammer (if you dont own Lost Remover) but will see more play because of the new fightin weak deck out there. And then we get Dark.dec, which can be either Zoroark DEX/Darkrai EX or Darkrai EX/Tornadus EX. Also about Raikou, people think catcher just beats Raikou, but you only have a max of 4 (or even 8, Junk Arm huh) of them and there are moments where you do have a way to get Raikou out other than netting a catcher. I have had a situation already where I damaged an EX early game with Thundurus and i could finish it off with Raikou EX. Also, what is noteworthy, is that Raikou EX is immune to N (and trainer lock). Yes that is right, IMMUNE to N!!! If an opponent N's you down to 1 or 2 cards then try to get your final Junk Arm/Catcher. Raikou can seal the deal by sniping a weak basic/damaged EX for the win. If you prepare it while taking a prise with another pokemon, you can prepare yourself for the possible N and snipe for the game. All i'm saying is that indeed, Raikou EX is overhyped, but it isn't bad either. __________________ www.youtube.com/user/Blueye95 Every day i'm battlin' OU Peak: #39 RU Peak: #19

May 4th, 2012, 2:27:03 PM	#28
FearZeCrawdaunt Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 393 Victoria, BC	It's interesting actually, there are a few people who have really wanted to toy around with Lugia because of it's godly attack power (200 attack! WOW). I mean... what other pokemon can guaranteed 1HKO any EX they wanted? It's poke-power charges it a bit, but with Cards like Research Record and Legend Box, it becomes more possible to charge up a Lugia Legend. Super Rod gets to return cards too. A lot of people are picturing the deck trying to just mill itself out and then Legend Box for Lugia. Others are looking to a Typhlosion/Eel build where you manually attach the water. With Blend energy pending release, provided Lugia is still around, it could be pretty great.

May 8th, 2012, 10:17:59 AM	#30
blaZofgold Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 64	With all the boosts to Dark Type Pokemon (Dark Patch for massive speed-setup and Dark Claw for +20 dmg), Darkrai EX has a pretty legit chance of setting up SUPER fast. Plus, just check out all the Dark type pokes in HGSS. T-tar Prime? You could probably get that thing going in 3 turns or less.

May 8th, 2012, 12:46:04 PM	#32
FearZeCrawdaunt Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 393 Victoria, BC	TTar doesn't take 3 turns to set up even now :( I had a speed TTar deck that just aimed to spread 20 everywhere really quickly. It had a pretty consistent T2 TTar spreading and focused on Max Potion to heal off the damage, since you were only using 1 energy. And when necessary you could drop a DCE for more heavy damage, or for a Zekrom/Reshiram/Kyurem Outrage (after they'd taken some Darkness Howl Damage). Dark Patch might make TTar a more instant threat to Megaton Tail though, if that's what you mean?

May 21st, 2012, 5:43:23 AM	#37
asianaussie Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 23 Melbourne, Australia	1) Catcher high-retreat/energyless Pokemon. 2) Snipe something else Congratulations, you just used Raikou EX properly. Raikou is also one of the only cards that can really abuse Max Potion. Weakness to Terrakion is a bad thing, but you'd never run a deck with Raikou and no Terrakion counter. See: Tornadus EX, which also has synergy with the Smeargle/Skyarrow Bridge engine too. It's still not as good as say, Zekrom, if only because it gives up two prizes, but it's definitely a good card.