Mienshao

[JCM]

*This is not a thread complaining that Mienshao is OP, but rather a thread to collect ideas for new creative sets.*

So, a while ago, I made a fairly successful OU VoltTurn team. My core was Mienshao/Rotom-W/Infernape/Jolteon, with Gengar for late-game sweeping and useful immunities, and Claydol for spinning. Mienshao was my MVP, and I started thinking what else it might be able to do. After much testing of various sets, I've came up with a few gems, and a few gimmicks that actually kind of work. The sets are listed below:

Calm Mind
Mienshao @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe

-Calm Mind
-Aura Sphere
-Grass Knot
-Hidden Power [Ice]/Hidden Power [Fire]

Incredibly gimmicky, and surprisingly effective. The only thing this has over anything else Mienshao can run is the immense surprise factor. Aura Sphere provides sweet, reliable stab, Grass Knot rends bulky waters, and Hidden Power complements the coverage very nicely. Hidden Power [Ice] is excellent for hitting flying- types, most notably Gliscor, but if you happen to find yourself on a sun team, Hidden Power [Fire] is an acceptable alternative for toasting Forretress and Scizor. I play this set by sending it in on something like Blissey, who will more often than not switch to a physical wall such as Forretress. When the opponent sees Calm Mind, they will either stare in amazement, not knowing what to do, or pull a second switch to their special wall and allow you to get another Calm Mind in.

Swords Dance
Mienshao @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
Trait: Regenerator
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe

-Swords Dance
-High Jump Kick
-Stone Edge
-Taunt/Baton Pass

After a Swords Dance, Mienshao is a deadly sweeper prepared to rip large wholes in the opponents team if not dealt with immediately. Swords Dance pumps Mienshao's attack to fearsome levels, while High Jump Kick and Stone Edge provide very nice coverage together. Taunt can be used to ease your set up and reduce fear of burns from the likes of Jellicent, however, Baton Pass can be used to abuse Regenerator without losing your boosts. The choice really depends on how well the rest of your team can use attack boosts.

Acrobatics
Mienshao @ Flying Gem
Trait: Regenerator
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe

-Acrobatics
-U-Turn
-High Jump Kick
-Stone Edge

Mienshao can effectively run an Acobatics set off a great attack stat and good speed stat. U-Turn is for Regenerator abuse and scouting, while High Jump Kick Murders steel- and rock- types who dare to oppose Acrobatics. Stone Edge gives great coverage paired with High Jump Kick, and gives Mienshao yet another powerful attack to threaten potential switch-ins with.

Choice
Mienshao @ Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Trait: Regenerator
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe

-High Jump Kick
-Stone Edge
-U-Turn
-Fling

Equipping a choice item allows Mienshao to become either a deadly sweeper or a potent revenge killer. High Jump Kick and Stone Edge provide neat coverage together, U-Turn scouts switch-ins and abuses Regenerator, and Fling is used in case you really don't want your choice item.

MixShao
Mienshao @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
Nature: Naive
EVs: 252 Atk/36 SpA/220 Spe

-High Jump Kick
-U-Turn/Stone Edge
-Grass Knot
-Hidden Power [Fire]/Hidden Power [Ice]

MixShao is quite possibly Mienshao's most effective set outside of classic Fake Out U-Turn. High Jump Kick is absurdly powerful stab, while U-Turn can abuse Regenerator to the fullest. Stone Edge is an option over U-Turn for coverage sake, but isn't recommended. Grass Knot is one of the main draws of MixShao, as it shreds bulky waters such as Gastrodon and Jellicent. Hidden Power [Fire] is generally preferable, but if you're on a rain team or really want to hit Landorus and Gliscor hard, Hidden Power [Ice] is an option. If running Hidden Power [Ice] then it is recommended to shift 32 SpA EVs into Spe. 220 EVs in speed with a Naive nature and Hidden Power [Fire] out-speeds base 100. You could run 252 speed EVs, but there are no Pokemon you'd outrun with them who you wouldn't normally.

Other Options:
I've listed just about all Mienshao has. Drain Punch has underwhelming power and Mienshao lacks the bulk to abuse it. Bulk Up is in all ways inferior to Swords Dance, as even at +1 Mienshao will find itself easily KOed by strong stab. Force Palm could be used for the paralysis rate, but Mienshao has better things to do. A stall-based set running Substitute, Bounce, Drain Punch, and Taunt is actually viable, running an EV spread of 252 HP/ 4 Atk/252 Spe and holding Leftovers, but Mienshao has better things to do. Just stick to the above sets or classic Mienshao.

Countering Mienshao: Physically defensive Jellicent can shrug off anything Mienshao can through at it sans Grass Knot, and reply with a nasty burn. Jellicent must, however, be wary of Mienshao U-Turning out for a counter. Ghost types make Mienshao sad, as it cannot use High Jump Kick and if they are lucky enough may even be able to switch in on one, causing massive damage. Any strong priority move will KO Mienshao, such as Conkeldurr or Breloom's Mach Punch.

Please post your ideas, but keep in mind that the goal is to find something other than the classic VoltTurn Mienshao. I'd also prefer if you tested the sets first, as I had a few more sets than this that worked on paper, but not in practice.

Pet a Linoone!

[pwnage77]

MixShao is named All out attacker in the smogon site. Anyway, for the other part. CM Mienshao, as you have stated, can set up on special walls like Blissey. But the thing is, the most common special wall in the current metagame is Jirachi and Jirachi isn't really scared of Mienshao (so long as it doesn't switch in on Hi Jump Kick). A +2 LO Aura Sphere can only do 56.4%~66.3% and at this point, Jirachi can easily cripple Mienshao with Body Slam / Thunder Wave. Anyway, I'm not really against this thread but I'd like to ask for more details. I'd like to see things like "the advantages of this set among other pokemon (who can utilize the same set)."

For more stuff: I'd like to suggest replacing Fling on Choice Sets with HP Ice since why would you run a choice set if you don't want the item? HP Ice hits Landorus and Gliscor hard. On Acrobatics set, put a slash on U-turn and put HP Ice. Same reason as on choice.


Anyway, I've got this set (haven't tested though) that I did some calcs with and it should work given the chance to set up:

Mienshao@Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
Nature: Naive / Hasty
EVs: 144 Atk / 112 SpA / 252 Spe
~Work Up
~Hi Jump Kick
~Stone Edge / Grass Knot
~Hidden Power Ice

So the EV spread is simple. Max speed to tie with other Mienshao. 112 SpA to have a good chance of 2HKOing Latias with +1 HP Ice after Stealth Rock damage. It can also 2HKO Jellicent with +1 Grass Knot without entry hazards. The rest are dumped to Attack to maximize the power of HJK. Which also gives it the power to 2HKO Skarmory at +1 without entry hazards. Wobbuffet is by far the most effective partner that I can find. It can Encore those other Pokemon who set up (entry hazards are the best to encore) and send Mienshao in to get a work up. As Mienshao is incredibly frail, it will need all the help it can to set up.

[tehy]

Why would you want to 2hitko a pokemon at plus one? Latios will just switch in, take a hit, and kill you. Ditto for skarmory. jellicent will scald, which may or may not kill you and may or may not burn you.

[JCM]

Well, the reason Fling is on the choice set is like Trick being on a choice set. Unfortunately, it doesn't get to cripple the foe, but it can still help if you need to be able to switch attacks.

EDIT: Just tested your Mienshao set, and it didn't work as well as the others. I was surprised, as it seems like it should work on paper.

[Pwnemon]

Here's a good idea for mienshao, credits to user Opposite Day for the idea (where is he?)

Mienshao @ Leftovers
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Regenerator
Jolly
-Substitute
-Baton Pass
-Hi Jump Kick
-Stone Edge

Mienshao has a unique niche in being able to pass subs to potent setup sweepers such as Salamence because of Regenerator; it can come in on SR. That will probably summon a switch to the opponent's physical wall as you Sub. Since Mienshao can 2hko even Skarmory after SR with HJK, they will probably switch again instead of trying to attack you, so you can Baton Pass to your setup sweeper. Suddenly you've got a free +1/+1 on your Mence behind a sub as you managed to force yet ANOTHER switch. And if you ever decide to really fuck with your opponent's mind, throw in a couple HJKs in there, keep them guessing whether to switch or stay

[JCM]

Have you tried that set, Pwnemon? I just did, but I found Taunt works better over Stone Edge. I also ended up with an EV spread of 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Spe Jolly. It worked decently like that, but as your set is currently posted, it needs some work. Try this:

SubPass
Mienshao @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Spe
Nature: Jolly

-Substitute
-Baton Pass
-U-Turn/High Jump Kick
-Taunt/Swords Dance

That's what I found to work best. U-Turn lets you get out of there when your sub's destroyed/when you know it will be destroyed while still doing damage, Taunt stops foes from setting up and aids the ability to pass a substitute, while Swords Dance can pass boosts, although you'll rarely find a chance to use it. High Jump Kick is a less viable option than U-Turn, but it hits very hard even barely invested.

[Tetrinity]

Originally Posted by Fat JCM

Well, the reason Fling is on the choice set is like Trick being on a choice set. Unfortunately, it doesn't get to cripple the foe, but it can still help if you need to be able to switch attacks.

Eh, Trick's usefulness doesn't lie in ditching the choice item, IMO. If you need the freedom of switching moves while still grabbing a power boost, go for something like Life Orb, especially on Mienshao who can heal off the recoil with Regenerator.

Anyway. I sorely want to test out that SubPass Mienshao, on paper it sounds like it'd be really effective and I bet something like Terrakion or the aforemented Salamence would just love a free Substitute to set up behind. I'd probably go for Sub / BP / U-Turn / Taunt, but another tempting option is HJK with a Life Orb instead of Leftovers. Something to consider, anyway.

[ThePillsburyDoughBoy]

Originally Posted by Fat Tetrinity

Eh, Trick's usefulness doesn't lie in ditching the choice item, IMO. If you need the freedom of switching moves while still grabbing a power boost, go for something like Life Orb, especially on Mienshao who can heal off the recoil with Regenerator.

Anyway. I sorely want to test out that SubPass Mienshao, on paper it sounds like it'd be really effective and I bet something like Terrakion or the aforemented Salamence would just love a free Substitute to set up behind. I'd probably go for Sub / BP / U-Turn / Taunt, but another tempting option is HJK with a Life Orb instead of Leftovers. Something to consider, anyway.

I'd take U-turn off because BP accomplishes the samething; just dry-pass.

In general CB Mienshao isn't up to pair with the LO attacking set. Why go for a little extra power with cb when for a little less power on HJK you could boost the move that gets rid of one of your main counters, the ability to scout with fake out, and get switch initiative with u-turn.

[JCM]

Umm... Pillsbury, U-Turn is one of the key reasons to use Mienshao. U-Turn also allows you to hit switch-ins and switch to a counter, something switching out can't do.

[ThePillsburyDoughBoy]

Originally Posted by Fat JCM

Umm... Pillsbury, U-Turn is one of the key reasons to use Mienshao. U-Turn also allows you to hit switch-ins and switch to a counter, something switching out can't do.

That's why i said dry-passing does the same thing. I guess you don't know, but dry-passing is baton passing without boosts. Dry-passing has the same effecet where you have the upper hand to switch into a counter. The chip damage doesn't mean that much. You're using a moveslot that could be dedicated to a strong stab move to hit switchins but is instead used for something that baton pass already does (scout switch-ins)

[ginganinja]

Not actually sure about the Mix Mienshao set. Grass Knot is o.k, until you factor in that its just for Jellicent (iirc) and that you don't even 2KO it. If Jellicent is running that specially defensive set, then you actually lose as it takes pretty much everything you can throw at it. Personally. I would much rather run Swords Dance which succeeds in 2KOing Jellicent with Stone Edge and means that you have a better chance at beating it. So um, why would you run Mix Mienshao when you can run Swords Dance, and why would you run HP Fire which I just don't see what you are hitting with it. HP Ice is much better

[pwnage77]

Originally Posted by Fat tehy

Why would you want to 2hitko a pokemon at plus one? Latios will just switch in, take a hit, and kill you. Ditto for skarmory. jellicent will scald, which may or may not kill you and may or may not burn you.

Yea I've got this one. I have a few questions though. Why do you think that people use Work Up Virizion? Why do you think people still use Infernape, Terrakion, and other pokemon who are a bit frail and slower than latios if latios can just kill you? Anyway, I'm still working on the set. And besides the point of 2hkoing pokemon is when they switch in on you. You don't hit them while they're in front of you because they will literally obliterate you. This set's main trouble is to set up 'cause it's too frail to take hits as it sets up unlike CM Latias / Jirachi which has the bulk to set up.

Originally Posted by Fat JCM

Well, the reason Fling is on the choice set is like Trick being on a choice set. Unfortunately, it doesn't get to cripple the foe, but it can still help if you need to be able to switch attacks.

EDIT: Just tested your Mienshao set, and it didn't work as well as the others. I was surprised, as it seems like it should work on paper.

I said it on my prev post, i haven't tested the set. I'd just like people who can help improve the set. Anyway, frail pokemon really have a hard time setting up so I just suggested wobbuffet. It's best to send this pokemon in on something like Forretress

[dragonuser]

A interesting set to use on mienshao could be the sub + 3 attacks variant. Rather than the sub pass set, this set is focused on getting behind a sub and letting Super Effective/STAB moves decimate your opponents team. And with regenerator the hp lost to subs is fairly negligible.

Mienshao (M) @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SAtk / 224 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Substitute
- Hi Jump Kick
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot/Stone Edge


Leftovers could be helpful when attempting a sweep, while LO provides extra power from the start. Grass knot/Stone Edge is based on what your team needs, coverage wise

[JCM]

Pillsbury, U-Turn is NOT the same as dry passing. If the foe switches, you get to see what they switch for and switch to a counter.

[dragonuser]

Originally Posted by Fat JCM

Pillsbury, U-Turn is NOT the same as dry passing. If the foe switches, you get to see what they switch for and switch to a counter.

dry passing also does the same thing, as you are using a move to switch(therefore you get to see what they switched too). The only real benefit of u-turn> dry passing is that you get to inflict damage when u switch.

[??????]

Scarfed Shao

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Regenerator
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe

-High Jump Kick
-Stone Edge
-U-Turn
-Taunt

This thing is easily the MVP on my team. With Regenerator, I will almost always be at full health and I can come in on things like Hidden Power and other weak moves. Hazards are almost a non-issue. With Jolly Scarf, I outspeed Volcarona/Mence at +1 Speed, Scarf Landorus, and also outspeed Scarf MoxieMence. With opposing Mienshao, I can take a Fake Out, and kill with HJK, since the opponent thinks he outsped.

Ghosts obviously stop it, but that's why we have other teammates.

[voodoo pimp]

Originally Posted by Fat ??????

Scarfed Shao

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Regenerator
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe

-High Jump Kick
-Stone Edge
-U-Turn
-Taunt

This thing is easily the MVP on my team. With Regenerator, I will almost always be at full health and I can come in on things like Hidden Power and other weak moves. Hazards are almost a non-issue. With Jolly Scarf, I outspeed Volcarona/Mence at +1 Speed, Scarf Landorus, and also outspeed Scarf MoxieMence. With opposing Mienshao, I can take a Fake Out, and kill with HJK, since the opponent thinks he outsped.

Ghosts obviously stop it, but that's why we have other teammates.

Slash HP Ice in there somewhere? Outspeeding Scarf Landorus doesn't do you any good if you can't actually kill it.

[Lady Shinki]

Sub+SD is loads of fun. Mienshao doesn't need a second move, as he can baton pass out of ghosts or faster scarfers.

Mienshao @ Life Orb
248 atk/252 spe/8 hp
Jolly / regenerator

sub
sd
hjk
pass

very solid, LO HJK will greatly damage his checks and counters, and he can subpass out of any ghost that isn't gengar..and gar would probably just try to put up a sub anyway, meaning if you passed to something like ss cloyster they'd be in a world of hurt

[Dr Ciel]

Well. this'll be my last rate before I go to bed.

I was scrolling around the usage stats and found this set. I want to know what you guys think.

Mienshao @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Regenerator
Nature: Jolly - EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

-Substitute
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Stone Edge

[Nachos]

The problem with Mienshao is that there are better options for a physical fighting teamslot on your team - namely Terrakion who also has a Rock STAB (Rock is crazy good lol) and a 100% accurate fighting STAB move to boot. Still, Mienshao is incredibly annoying to face due to Regenerator & U-turn and the fact that its HJK's hit like a truck.

I've found that it tends to be a good lead Pokemon due to the combination of Fake Out and U-turn being annoying and HJK just doing crazy amounts of damage to stuff like Politoed and Ninetales. The set with HP:Ice/HJK/FO/U-turn is really the only set worth using, the rest just get fingerbanged by anything with a strong move, Scizor is probably the worst culprit. It probably should be used more, but then you think to yourself "why aren't I using Terrakion"?

[Dr Ciel]

Originally Posted by Fat Nachos

The problem with Mienshao is that there are better options for a physical fighting teamslot on your team - namely Terrakion who also has a Rock STAB (Rock is crazy good lol) and a 100% accurate fighting STAB move to boot. Still, Mienshao is incredibly annoying to face due to Regenerator & U-turn and the fact that its HJK's hit like a truck.

I've found that it tends to be a good lead Pokemon due to the combination of Fake Out and U-turn being annoying and HJK just doing crazy amounts of damage to stuff like Politoed and Ninetales. The set with HP:Ice/HJK/FO/U-turn is really the only set worth using, the rest just get fingerbanged by anything with a strong move, Scizor is probably the worst culprit. It probably should be used more, but then you think to yourself "why aren't I using Terrakion"?

Just wanted to chime in on this comment.

Mienshao is used cheifly as an all-out attacker/suicide lead. Mienshao is capable of netting key KO's early in the game. Terrakion, on the other hand, is used as a strong revenge killer with it's ample amount of Physical moves. So, it depends on personal preference. If you want an all out attacker\, use Mienshao. If you want a strong revenge killer capable of beating threats, use Terrakion. It's up to you.

~Dr Ciel

[android]

DrCiel, Terrakion isn't a revenge killer really (not that he can't revenge kill). He's more like a bulldozer that wrecks teams without Scizor. Mienshao is slower, weaker, and frailer, so Terrakion makes a far better all out attacker with it's superior stats and amazing STAB combination.

Really the main reason that Mienshao is used is Regenerator. There's a reason why Terrakion is top 10 while Mienshao is bordering UU.

[TyranitarAbuser]

Originally Posted by Fat Dr Ciel

Well. this'll be my last rate before I go to bed.

I was scrolling around the usage stats and found this set. I want to know what you guys think.

Mienshao @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Regenerator
Nature: Jolly - EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

-Substitute
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Stone Edge

I think this set was created by nbz (a youtuber). I think what he said about it is that people usually switch out when facing a Mienshao fearing a Fake Out. This provides the perfect oppurtunity for a sub to be set up. A few bulk ups later, Drain Punch and Stone Edge will sweep.

[Cheapoman]

Never actually thought about a Sub Baton Passing Meinshao. o.0

Gonna have to try that out soon. Seems pretty nice.