Darkrai discussion

[Alakapimp]

Not the Pokemon, the deck!

Darkrai is gonna be one of the two major decks to come out of Dark Explorers. It can be played several different ways, but I've been testing and like pure aggro the best by far. This is the list I've been testing with:


3 Darkrai
4 Smeargle
1 Shaymin
8

4 special dark
10 basic
14

3 sage
4 juniper
4 random Reciever
4 dual ball
4 dark patch
4 junk arm
4 catcher
2 dark claw
4 super scoop up
4 switch
1 revive
38

The main goal is to stream Smeargle's with switch and super scoop up until you set up hopefully turn 1 and often turn 2, never later. From there you can run through most things with your 90-140 to the active and 30 bench, using SSE Shaymin to heal, or just move to a different Darkrai and retreat.

The draw is weird, so let me explain it. You only want to play discard draw, so that is all that's there. Juniper is the absolute best, so 4 of that. Then to further your chances of Juniper 4 Random Receiver. Then you only have 8 which is too few to hit one turn one every game, so 3 sage to get you to 11. Seven actual supporters seems like you would run out, but you're gonna be close to decking after a couple turns and not really have anything else you need to do, so you don't need to play them.

There are lots of other options with Darkrai, like Weavile, and I'm interested to hear what other people like best.

Also this has a terrible Durant matchup, so its a good candidate for Heatmor, what do you think?

[rax]

Minor error: You have 8 pokemon, not 7. (Still a 60 card deck.)

This is a really interesting idea. Having not tested it, I worry about the single weakness and the single plan --- it reminds me kind of of four Celebi/three Mewtwo, where if you got one of the better possible draws it was amazingly good but if you got a very bad draw you just had nothing. I suspect Smeargle helps you way, way more with that than Celebi ever could, so maybe it's not a founded fear; I don't know.

I almost wonder if you might replace dual ball with ultra ball to increase your chances of getting dark into the discard?

The overall draw engine is really clever and seems effective on paper. I like four random receiver and a slightly lower supporter count, although I would then get nervous about situations that call for junipering away a juniper, and so on. I guess that's what the smeargles are for. :)

I would be tempted to take out one energy for a max potion but I have a bad habit of running techy trainer lines, I suspect you don't need it.

[Alakapimp]

Originally Posted by Fat rax

I almost wonder if you might replace dual ball with ultra ball to increase your chances of getting dark into the discard?

You actually run through your deck so hard that you discard plenty anyway. I normally discard 4-7 energies turn 1, its actually hitting Dark Patches and then still having your retreat/switch that causes you to whiff. Between Junk Arm and your draw, combined with the possible repeated junipers with smeargle, you wreck your resources already, and having to discard more to get out Pokemon isn't a good idea.

The overall draw engine is really clever and seems effective on paper. I like four random receiver and a slightly lower supporter count, although I would then get nervous about situations that call for junipering away a juniper, and so on. I guess that's what the smeargles are for. :)

Junipering away Junipers ends up being ok, because no joke, you normally only play 2-3 supporters the whole game. You run through so much turn 1 and 2 if you haven't set up, that you don't have anything left to dig for usually.

[Maxb]

This deck seems like it just auto-loses to the Terrakion deck (which will be around even more due to DE), or really any fighting deck. I really think Smeargle is unnecessary in this. If you really want to run this deck, just run it like the mono-Terrakion deck. I really dislike Sage's as well, because usually you have to discard good cards and it's just a bad card for drawing. With this deck, you can play your hand down to basically 0 then PONT or N. A Leavanny line could be pretty funny in this deck but not viable imo. This is all theorymon, but I don't think this deck will be viable.

[Alakapimp]

If you don't think smeargle is necessary you greatly misunderstand the deck.

This actually doesn't do that bad against Terrak because you kill 2 terraks by at worst turn 3 and can wipe lots of energies off the field.

[FearZeCrawdaunt]

I've been too busy to test much deck-wise, but this seems really interesting. I cringe at that 7 total supporters and 4 RR, but then remember you also have 4 Smeargle and realize it's probably ok.

I personally like the idea of ZoroarkRai with a thinner Weavile line. Darkrai just gets to hit and snipe, whilst Zoroark is your glass cannon capable of dealing heavy damage but incapable of taking any. Still, the Ascension consistency is a huge plus, and Darkrai is just nice to have for the HP. Zoroark also powers over Terrakion (or at least can) so it's probably not as bad a matchup as it sounds like initially. Especially if you get to use Weavile to disrupt their hand every now and then.

I think with Random Receiver out, people will find themselves more vulnerable to cards like Weavile and N, since decks will be running low supporter counts. That's kind of why I cringe at that 7 total supporters... One good N/Judge/Weavile and you're hooped. But you were saying your first turn is a ridiculous string of Smeargles, so I couldn't say for sure.

[rax]

Originally Posted by Fat Alaka

Junipering away Junipers ends up being ok, because no joke, you normally only play 2-3 supporters the whole game. You run through so much turn 1 and 2 if you haven't set up, that you don't have anything left to dig for usually.

Whoah, this sounds weird. I'm gonna have to try it, thanks!

[rax]

I tested this list last night. I think I understand it now, although playing it is tricky and you end up with types of decisions I am not used to (and would do well to get better at). I like it, and if it gets a good start it is absolutely crushing, although on the occasion that it started poorly (no supporters in opponent's hand to copy!) it was just grisly. There might have been something else I could do, I don't know, I will have to test more. I'd definitely recommend other folks give this list or something like it a try.

[Casteel]

I just bought my first box of Dark Explorers last night and I am the luckiest guy in the world! I pulled 1 full art Darkrai EX and a normal Darrai EX. However I digress, back to the topic.

I am building this deck as well however slightly different;

4 Zorua
4 Zoroark
4 Sneasel
2 Weavile
2 Darkrai EX

16 Pokemon

4 Pokemon Collector
4 Professor Juniper
4 PONT
2 N
4 Dark Patch
3 Junk Arm
3 Dark Claw
2 Ultra Ball
1 Revive

27 Trainers / Supporters (Working on the other 5)

6 Basic Darkness
3 Special Darkness
3 Rescue

12 Energy (Might make the specials 4/4)


Anyway, I've played the deck last night with fillers and it is actually really good. A word I would use to describe the deck is "consistent." I think the collector engine is better than the ball engine for this deck. It runs tight on space.

I think Rescue Energy is vital. It keeps your bench full and gets Zoruas back without a Super Rod.

There are other things to note but I have to keep playing to figure the rest of it out. Let me know if you have any suggestions or experience something different. Thanks!

[rax]

I would argue that Zoroark is really a different deck from straight Darkrai --- your goal is to stream Zoroarks to do 120+ per turn, not to stream Darkrai to do 90+/30 per turn, and you're much more OK with getting KOd. In addition, as compared to Alaka's list, you're not trying to get lots of energy on the field turn 1/2 so much as you are trying to guarantee that you'll have a Zoroark attacking all the way from turn 2/3 to game end, with maybe a Darkrai in there occasionally to mix things up. That said, I haven't tested this sort of list but I have tested against it, and I have a couple of suggestions:

Try to work a couple of Pokegear 3.0 in there. Collectors instead of Dual Balls is interesting and may be the right play but you want cards that help you get to your draw support, and you can't run Smeargle really because Zoroark will deal less damage.

4 Junk Arm. If you have a really, really good reason to run three, maybe I can see it, but I don't see one here.

I would recommend DCE over sp. dark; the extra 10 damage isn't as strong or recoverable as dark claw, and being able to drop on an active Zoroark and swing is super helpful. It would also help you power a tech Tornadus EX or Mewtwo EX if you decided to play one of those --- though I'm not sure you should. (Maybe Tornadus. Like I said, I've only tested against it, not built it myself.)

[Casteel]

You think DCE would be better than Rescue? I agree with the Poke Gear 3.0. Maybe even add some Catchers. That might wrap up my list. I think mine focuses on attacking Zoroarks with Weavile support. The ability snag one of my opponents trainers at the right time isn't bad either. Darkrai EX is in the deck because I don't see any other Basic with his benefits. Having no retreat cost is a very valuable thing with my build.

I guess the question is, "Why did I post here?" lol I was just excited about Darkrai and the new expansion focusing on my favorite type. :P

I also agree with your suggestions for his build.

[rax]

Originally Posted by Fat Casteel

You think DCE would be better than Rescue? I agree with the Poke Gear 3.0. Maybe even add some Catchers. That might wrap up my list. I think mine focuses on attacking Zoroarks with Weavile support. The ability snag one of my opponents trainers at the right time isn't bad either. Darkrai EX is in the deck because I don't see any other Basic with his benefits. Having no retreat cost is a very valuable thing with my build.

Oh I would play DCE over special dark, not over rescue. Rescue is important. And yeah I missed the lack of catcher; you almost always want at least a couple. You don't need them here as much as something that goes for weakness or turn 1 KOs does, but it's still a very helpful card.

[Alakapimp]

I won my battle road with this list today, at 39 points now.

[Twannes]

good job! now only a few questions remain, one of being how you got all those darkrai's so fast. Did you just buy them for $60 a piece or something?

[CaptKirby]

Twannes getting Darkrai is not a big deal if you commit yourself. For instance you could get them on ebay for less than $50, or find ways to trade for it. Pre-orders started at $25 and some people got in at $25 or $35.

[Ravix]

I thought I saw 4 darkrai in your deck, must have misread that.

I played the zoroark variant at the same battle roads and went 1-5, I've officially given up on the deck. Darkrai is a lot faster and a lot more consistent, the only game I won was versus Kirby and that was due to an N. I found myself quickly shifting from Zoroark to Darkrai, so going with him as the center piece just makes more sense.

Killer Lugia deck by the way kirby.

[Alakapimp]

Was waiting to post until after today's BR but I did awful sooooo.

Won two more battle roads and took a third and second over the last 2 weeks, pulling my overall br record with this deck to 38-5.

[FearZeCrawdaunt]

Those are some impressive numbers. Is that 38-5 with the same list as the first post?

[jle1076]

4 smeargles has been proven to be less consistent than regular darkrai EX variants like hammertime and darkrai ex/mewtwo ex/terrakion ex

[Ravix]

I'm thinking the deck did what he wanted it to do. He took 38 wins and 5 losses, with the majority of those loses coming near the end of the season.

A great deck for running through BRs and getting some last minute points.

Originally Posted by Fat jle1076

4 smeargles has been proven to be less consistent than regular darkrai EX variants like hammertime and darkrai ex/mewtwo ex/terrakion ex

Would love to see your proof. Do note that both of these decks only became popular because they won nationals in other countries, 2/3 of the way through BRs.

[jle1076]

lol by looking at deck lists from all the nats recently and other tournaments?

[Mekkah**]

The Tornadus EX/Mewtwo EX/Terrakion and Hammer variants just got a lot more publicity than this speed build. You can't just put its lack of wins on "it's less consistent".

[jle1076]

Yes i actually can lol, because thats why theyre playing it xD theres statistics behind my claims and when I post them "well they just dont see the lime light as muich" is the best retaliation or im "just lying and cant prove it".

3 Darkrai EX
3 Terrakion
2 Smeargle
1 Shaymin

4 Juniper
4 Pokemon Catcher
3 N
3 Bianca
3 Ultra Ball
3 Exp Share
3 Lost Remover
3 SSU
3 Dark Patch
3 Junk Arm
2 Random Receiver
2 Dark Claw
1 Max Potion
1 Super Rod

8 Dark
5 Puño

Thats the list i used in argentina national :)

Nationals in the netherlands:
1) Bert W (Darkrai/Terrakion/Mewtwo)
2) Marcel O (Accelgor/Vileplume/Sunflora)
3) Matijs M (CMT+Terrakion)
4) Tristan W (Darkrai+Hammers)

Malaysian Nationals, 23/06/2012:

1. Yee Wei (Zekrom/Eelektrik)
2. Edmund T. (Zekrom/Eelektrik/Terrakion)
3. Shane C. (Zekrom/Eelektrik/Terrakion)
4. Lawrence P. (Celebi/Mewtwo/Tornadus)

5. Isaac C. (Hammertime)
6. Navin R. (Lilligant/Vileplume)
7. Ethan C. (Celebi/Mewtwo/Tornadus)
8. Aaron M. (Zekrom/Eelektrik)


just a few examples

[Ravix]

You don't know how statistics works, do you?

[Maaf]

How the hell can you play a non Vileplume deck without 4 Junk Arm ?