BDIF in the HGSS-DEX format?

***Mekkah***** · May 22nd, 2012, 4:59:07 PM

Which of these very generally formulated archetypes is the absolute best deck at the moment, in your opinion?

Is it Eelektrik, Zekrom/Eelektrik, bs Zekrom, or whatever you want to call it, with its enormous staying power and energy recycling? It has access to probably the greatest attackers in the metagame including Zekrom, Mewtwo EX, and Tornadus EX, but it does need to evolve these frail little Tynamo...

Is it Celebi, the extremely fast blitzkrieg take-no-prisoners deck that can just whip a Tornadus (EX) or Mewtwo out of nowhere and start dealing as much as 100 damage on turn 1? The deck can use Forest Breath and Portrait multiple times per turn with Skyarrow Bridge and Switches, but has the problem of not recycling its Energy and uses the frail 60 HP Basics for its acceleration.

Or is it Darkrai EX, sometimes accompanied by Weavile, Sableye, or even Zoroark. Setting one up in one turn is a breeze with Dark Patch and Junk Arm, and it has amazing synergy with Smeargle, among other reasons because of its amazing Poke Body. It can deal with two Pokemon at the same time thanks to Night Spear's 30 damage snipe, and increase its somewhat mediocre active pressure with Dark Claw and special Dark Energy.

Or is it something else? I can't imagine so, but hey...

Please vote and post with reasoning!

rax · May 22nd, 2012, 10:01:20 PM

I think it's pretty close between Eels and Darkrai, but I think the ridiculous turn one potential of Darkrai edges it over. Also, the way you phrased it makes Darkrai the best place to hedge, because there are a bunch of different Darkrai archetypes that offer flexibility depending on the specific local metagame. That said, because both of them are weak to fighting, it opens up the possibility for CMT to squeak by... I don't feel like any of them are that much worse than the others, but if I had to pick a deck to bring to Nationals this weekend, it would be Darkrai.

(Since I only have to bring a deck to Battle Roads, it will be Lugia again. :D )

Ravix · May 22nd, 2012, 10:30:36 PM

Darkrai/Tornadus // Darkrai/Terkaion

Matchups beware.

Purimpopoie · May 22nd, 2012, 11:39:05 PM

I'm going to go with popular opinion and say Darkrai. Even though I've only played a Zoroark version of the deck, I have seen how insanely fast it is, so a better built version is probably gonna be ever faster than what I've seen.

Ravix · May 22nd, 2012, 11:52:06 PM

Zoroark is tier 2 at best, straight darkrai with techs is phenomenal.

FearZeCrawdaunt · May 23rd, 2012, 2:22:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Ravix

Zoroark is tier 2 at best, straight darkrai with techs is phenomenal.

Yeah... the Zoroarks really don't add much, and just give your opponent some easy prizes.

I have to say though, I think ZekEels and CMT are just being underrepresented at the moment (by a little), compared to how much rep they received at Provincials/Regionals. Everyone wants to try out the new deck(s) in town, including Darkrai. The first week of Battle Roads is also the most unstable :P

Also, clearly Lugia Legend is BDIF. It did take every Battle Roads it entered after all.

**kd24** · May 23rd, 2012, 2:29:45 PM

darkrai ex easily, it's way too consistently powerful compared to how consistent other decks can stop it.

CaptKirby · May 23rd, 2012, 11:12:25 PM

Lugia. The answer is Lugia.

Why even include CMT :| sure it will still win because it is a powerful strategy, but the deck is blatantly inferior.

Cybertron · May 23rd, 2012, 11:41:51 PM

CMT is a lot worse than it was for States and Regionals, IMO. There's not much it can do against Darkrai because Mewtwo isn't effective at all in the match-up, meaning you'll have to depend on Tornadus/Tornadus EX. Darkrai is easily able to get KO after KO, and if you choose to bench a Celebi, it'll be KOed very soon.

It's also still annoying to play vs. Eels with CMT. You don't want to rely on Mewtwo too much unless you have the proper tools for a Mewtwo war, and Tornadus is obviously absolutely useless mid- to late game. Your best hope is to get some quick KOes, but if Eels gets to set up on you, you're pretty much screwed.

I played CMT w/ Terrakion at the Battles Roads I attended last weekend and went 2-2, which was actually my worst tournament of the season. Surprisingly enough, there was only 1 Darkrai deck in the tournament, which finished 2nd. I lost Round 1 vs. Landorus/Terrakion since I had 2 Mewtwo prized along with my final N, none which I drew off my first 3 prizes. I then lost Round 2 against Eels because I just misplayed miserably. I won games 3 and 4 against Eels and Landorus/Terrakion. It was definitely a fun play, but if I had the chance to play Darkrai, I probably would jump on it right away.

It also swept Masters, 3 of the Top 4 at my BR ran Darkrai variants, and it should be noted that in the 1st post-DEX Nationals of the year in Norway, both finalists used Darkrai. We'll get a more clear picture of the metagame after Battle Roads is over but Darkrai is already starting to prove itself as an excellent deck and even the BDIF.

420 · May 24th, 2012, 12:01:38 AM

It's Darkrai-Mewtwo-Tornadus AKA Haymaker 2.0

CaptKirby · May 24th, 2012, 3:20:03 AM

Darkrai/Mewtwo is the poor man's (ability to play) rich card strategy. It works, but it works worse than real lists in my opinion.

Cybertron, Yellow>CMT>Brown>Yellow was the previous balance, with the problem that electric still beat fighting enough to be the superior play. In this metagame darkrai is another deck better than CMT, while the other decks maintain the same sort of balance with fighting beating Darkrai about the best of anything too. So CMT really loses out even with its advantage over the fighting builds.

FearZeCrawdaunt · May 24th, 2012, 1:31:23 PM

Oh yeah, I don't mean to imply CMT is BDIF. But hey, it's still tier 1 for sure.

After all, check out the current BR results off of Pokegym: http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=163894

CMT took 3rd most top 4's, and 2 Battle Roads still. Darkrai.dec is definitely looking to be #1 contender, but as I said earlier... I wonder how much of that is under/over representation. @ Cybertron, you may have only had 1 Darkrai deck at your BR, but in other places I've heard of it being like... half Darkrai. Regional differences :\

Cybertron · May 24th, 2012, 1:56:24 PM

If you read my post more carefully, I said Darkrai dominated Masters at my BR. There was only one in Seniors.

FearZeCrawdaunt · May 24th, 2012, 3:11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Cybertron

If you read my post more carefully, I said Darkrai dominated Masters at my BR. There was only one in Seniors.

Oh, haha. So you did :P My bad. I didn't realize you were in Seniors.

Ravix · May 24th, 2012, 4:51:06 PM

CMT gets absolutely obliterated by Darkrai, I'm afraid that deck is now tier 2 at best.

FearZeCrawdaunt · May 24th, 2012, 9:05:04 PM

Yeah... but the difference in main-game can be overcome by donks to some extent. Zoroark variants aren't really a problem, but pure builds are definitely troublesome for CMT. But, the advantage CMT has is being able to donk a lone smeargle, which happens often enough IMO to counterbalance the otherwise poor matchup to some extent.

That said... yeah, it's still unfavourable for CMT. But results don't lie, it's still a decent threat. I'd say hovering between tier 1 and 2.

Freze · May 27th, 2012, 12:43:27 PM

Darkrai/Tornadus/Mewtwo is the BDIF for sure. It has good matchups all across the board and has disruption for your opponents and is incredibly consistent. It won my nationals.

Oh yeah Darkrai all the way. Darkrai has owned every nationals in Europe.

Top 8 was 6 Darkrai variants and Top 4 was 4 Darkrai variants here. Oh yeah and 9 players had Darkrai available to them. 6 made topcut. It dominated Norway as well. Darkrai is the best and Darkrai/Tornadus+stuff is the BDIF and IMO Mewtwo is the best +stuff. Terrakion works ok as well with Darkrai.

Dragonking700 · Jun 7th, 2012, 12:19:25 PM

Okay, I'm sure we can now all agree that Darkrai is the BDIF after 30 BR wins :P
The reason it's doing well I think is partly because it's new. Once people figure out how to play against it, it won't have the huge advantage it has now.

FearZeCrawdaunt · Jun 7th, 2012, 12:27:25 PM

Well, week 3 of Battle Roads saw some balancing (Darkrai still owned).

Darkrai 16 Battle Roads (after 30 in 2 weeks)
Zeels took 7 (up from 9 after only 2 weeks)
CMT took 4 (up from 4 after only 2 weeks)
Mono-Fighting pick up 1 (after 5 in 2 weeks)
Troll variants picked up 4 (though I think they just hadn't yet added them previously)

So Darkrai didn't really slow down, but the other tier 1-1.5 decks picked up some speed. I expect a stronger showing out of non-Darkrai decks in week 4 as well.

View Poll Results: BDIF in the HGSS-DEX format?
Eelektrik	9	25.71%
Celebi	0	0%
Darkrai EX	24	68.57%
Other	2	5.71%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

May 23rd, 2012, 2:29:45 PM	#7
kd24 Surprise Mother Fucker Moderator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,769 HOME	darkrai ex easily, it's way too consistently powerful compared to how consistent other decks can stop it. __________________ My YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheLemondrop7

May 23rd, 2012, 11:12:25 PM	#8
CaptKirby Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,642 on a branch, sleepin' till it's night	Lugia. The answer is Lugia. Why even include CMT :\| sure it will still win because it is a powerful strategy, but the deck is blatantly inferior. __________________ Elsewhere, a somewhat startled Warren Worthington III finds that he has accidentally wandered into an electrified east-side world of post-twist teens and watsui-ing teeny-boppers...

May 24th, 2012, 3:20:03 AM	#11
CaptKirby Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,642 on a branch, sleepin' till it's night	Darkrai/Mewtwo is the poor man's (ability to play) rich card strategy. It works, but it works worse than real lists in my opinion. Cybertron, Yellow>CMT>Brown>Yellow was the previous balance, with the problem that electric still beat fighting enough to be the superior play. In this metagame darkrai is another deck better than CMT, while the other decks maintain the same sort of balance with fighting beating Darkrai about the best of anything too. So CMT really loses out even with its advantage over the fighting builds. __________________ Elsewhere, a somewhat startled Warren Worthington III finds that he has accidentally wandered into an electrified east-side world of post-twist teens and watsui-ing teeny-boppers...

May 27th, 2012, 12:43:27 PM	#17
Freze Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 707 Finland (GMT +2)	Darkrai/Tornadus/Mewtwo is the BDIF for sure. It has good matchups all across the board and has disruption for your opponents and is incredibly consistent. It won my nationals. Oh yeah Darkrai all the way. Darkrai has owned every nationals in Europe. Top 8 was 6 Darkrai variants and Top 4 was 4 Darkrai variants here. Oh yeah and 9 players had Darkrai available to them. 6 made topcut. It dominated Norway as well. Darkrai is the best and Darkrai/Tornadus+stuff is the BDIF and IMO Mewtwo is the best +stuff. Terrakion works ok as well with Darkrai. __________________ Problem?

May 22nd, 2012, 4:59:07 PM	#1
*Mekkah* pfbwowbfobwobwobfwowbf Administrator** Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,835 Most of them are good	BDIF in the HGSS-DEX format? Which of these very generally formulated archetypes is the absolute best deck at the moment, in your opinion? Is it Eelektrik, Zekrom/Eelektrik, bs Zekrom, or whatever you want to call it, with its enormous staying power and energy recycling? It has access to probably the greatest attackers in the metagame including Zekrom, Mewtwo EX, and Tornadus EX, but it does need to evolve these frail little Tynamo... Is it Celebi, the extremely fast blitzkrieg take-no-prisoners deck that can just whip a Tornadus (EX) or Mewtwo out of nowhere and start dealing as much as 100 damage on turn 1? The deck can use Forest Breath and Portrait multiple times per turn with Skyarrow Bridge and Switches, but has the problem of not recycling its Energy and uses the frail 60 HP Basics for its acceleration. Or is it Darkrai EX, sometimes accompanied by Weavile, Sableye, or even Zoroark. Setting one up in one turn is a breeze with Dark Patch and Junk Arm, and it has amazing synergy with Smeargle, among other reasons because of its amazing Poke Body. It can deal with two Pokemon at the same time thanks to Night Spear's 30 damage snipe, and increase its somewhat mediocre active pressure with Dark Claw and special Dark Energy. Or is it something else? I can't imagine so, but hey... Please vote and post with reasoning! __________________ onions videos cameras models steroids dinoturtlethings

May 22nd, 2012, 10:01:20 PM	#2
rax Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 40 Tucson, AZ	I think it's pretty close between Eels and Darkrai, but I think the ridiculous turn one potential of Darkrai edges it over. Also, the way you phrased it makes Darkrai the best place to hedge, because there are a bunch of different Darkrai archetypes that offer flexibility depending on the specific local metagame. That said, because both of them are weak to fighting, it opens up the possibility for CMT to squeak by... I don't feel like any of them are that much worse than the others, but if I had to pick a deck to bring to Nationals this weekend, it would be Darkrai. (Since I only have to bring a deck to Battle Roads, it will be Lugia again. :D )

May 22nd, 2012, 10:30:36 PM	#3
Ravix Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 188 Denton, Texas	Darkrai/Tornadus // Darkrai/Terkaion Matchups beware.

May 22nd, 2012, 11:39:05 PM	#4
Purimpopoie Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 346	I'm going to go with popular opinion and say Darkrai. Even though I've only played a Zoroark version of the deck, I have seen how insanely fast it is, so a better built version is probably gonna be ever faster than what I've seen.

May 22nd, 2012, 11:52:06 PM	#5
Ravix Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 188 Denton, Texas	Zoroark is tier 2 at best, straight darkrai with techs is phenomenal.

May 23rd, 2012, 11:41:51 PM	#9
Cybertron Stay classy. Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,922	CMT is a lot worse than it was for States and Regionals, IMO. There's not much it can do against Darkrai because Mewtwo isn't effective at all in the match-up, meaning you'll have to depend on Tornadus/Tornadus EX. Darkrai is easily able to get KO after KO, and if you choose to bench a Celebi, it'll be KOed very soon. It's also still annoying to play vs. Eels with CMT. You don't want to rely on Mewtwo too much unless you have the proper tools for a Mewtwo war, and Tornadus is obviously absolutely useless mid- to late game. Your best hope is to get some quick KOes, but if Eels gets to set up on you, you're pretty much screwed. I played CMT w/ Terrakion at the Battles Roads I attended last weekend and went 2-2, which was actually my worst tournament of the season. Surprisingly enough, there was only 1 Darkrai deck in the tournament, which finished 2nd. I lost Round 1 vs. Landorus/Terrakion since I had 2 Mewtwo prized along with my final N, none which I drew off my first 3 prizes. I then lost Round 2 against Eels because I just misplayed miserably. I won games 3 and 4 against Eels and Landorus/Terrakion. It was definitely a fun play, but if I had the chance to play Darkrai, I probably would jump on it right away. It also swept Masters, 3 of the Top 4 at my BR ran Darkrai variants, and it should be noted that in the 1st post-DEX Nationals of the year in Norway, both finalists used Darkrai. We'll get a more clear picture of the metagame after Battle Roads is over but Darkrai is already starting to prove itself as an excellent deck and even the BDIF.

May 24th, 2012, 12:01:38 AM	#10
420 Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 249 Custom User Title	It's Darkrai-Mewtwo-Tornadus AKA Haymaker 2.0

May 24th, 2012, 1:31:23 PM	#12
FearZeCrawdaunt Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 393 Victoria, BC	Oh yeah, I don't mean to imply CMT is BDIF. But hey, it's still tier 1 for sure. After all, check out the current BR results off of Pokegym: http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=163894 CMT took 3rd most top 4's, and 2 Battle Roads still. Darkrai.dec is definitely looking to be #1 contender, but as I said earlier... I wonder how much of that is under/over representation. @ Cybertron, you may have only had 1 Darkrai deck at your BR, but in other places I've heard of it being like... half Darkrai. Regional differences :\

May 24th, 2012, 1:56:24 PM	#13
Cybertron Stay classy. Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,922	If you read my post more carefully, I said Darkrai dominated Masters at my BR. There was only one in Seniors.

May 24th, 2012, 4:51:06 PM	#15
Ravix Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 188 Denton, Texas	CMT gets absolutely obliterated by Darkrai, I'm afraid that deck is now tier 2 at best.

May 24th, 2012, 9:05:04 PM	#16
FearZeCrawdaunt Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 393 Victoria, BC	Yeah... but the difference in main-game can be overcome by donks to some extent. Zoroark variants aren't really a problem, but pure builds are definitely troublesome for CMT. But, the advantage CMT has is being able to donk a lone smeargle, which happens often enough IMO to counterbalance the otherwise poor matchup to some extent. That said... yeah, it's still unfavourable for CMT. But results don't lie, it's still a decent threat. I'd say hovering between tier 1 and 2.

Jun 7th, 2012, 12:19:25 PM	#18
Dragonking700 Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 109 Yakima, WA	Okay, I'm sure we can now all agree that Darkrai is the BDIF after 30 BR wins :P The reason it's doing well I think is partly because it's new. Once people figure out how to play against it, it won't have the huge advantage it has now. __________________ Oppan Gangnam Style! 〈(￣ー￣)ノ

Jun 7th, 2012, 12:27:25 PM	#19
FearZeCrawdaunt Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 393 Victoria, BC	Well, week 3 of Battle Roads saw some balancing (Darkrai still owned). Darkrai 16 Battle Roads (after 30 in 2 weeks) Zeels took 7 (up from 9 after only 2 weeks) CMT took 4 (up from 4 after only 2 weeks) Mono-Fighting pick up 1 (after 5 in 2 weeks) Troll variants picked up 4 (though I think they just hadn't yet added them previously) So Darkrai didn't really slow down, but the other tier 1-1.5 decks picked up some speed. I expect a stronger showing out of non-Darkrai decks in week 4 as well.