BW: Dark Explorers Discussion

Cassie · Apr 30th, 2012, 3:10:04 AM

So the new set comes out May 9th and Prereleases are happening everywhere. The list is out and it looks like it'll change the TCG metagame up a bit with the new releases. This thread is mostly just to share your opinions on what you think of the new set and how you think it will affect the current metagame, so without further ado, the set list!

Some of the cards with potential

Heatmor – Fire – HP90
Basic Pokémon

[C] Hot Lick: 10+ damage. If the Defending Pokémon is Durant, this attack does 50 more damage.
[R][C][C] Firebreathing: 50+ damage. Flip a coin. If heads, this attack does 20 more damage.

Weakness: Water(x2)
Resistance: None
Retreat: 1

Empoleon - Water - HP140
Stage 2 - Evolves from Prinplup

Ability: Diving Draw
Once during your turn (before your attack), you may discard a card from your hand. If you do, draw 2 cards.

[W] Attack Command: 10x damage. Does 10 damage times the number of Pokémon in play (both yours and your opponent's).

Weakness: Electric(x2)
Resistance: None
Retreat: 2

Raikou-EX - Electric - HP170
Basic Pokémon

[E][C] Thunder Fang: 30 damage.Flip a coin. If heads the Defending Pokémon is now Paralyzed.
[E][E][C] Volt Bolt:Discard all Electric Energy attached to this Pokémon. This attack does 100 damage to 1 of your opponent's benched Pokémon. (Don't apply Weakness and Resistance for Benched Pokémon.)

Weakness: Fighting(x2)
Resistance: None
Retreat: 1

Groudon-EX - Fighting - HP180
Basic Pokémon

[F][C] Tromp: 20 damage.Does 10 damage to each of your opponent's Benched Pokémon. (Don't apply Weakness and Resistance for Benched Pokémon.)
[F][F][C] Giant Claw: 80+ damage.If the Defending Pokémon already has 2 or more damage counters on it, this attack does 40 more damage.

Weakness: Water(x2)
Resistance: Electric(-20)
Retreat: 4

Darkrai-EX - Dark - HP180
Basic Pokémon

Ability: Dark Cloak
Each of your Pokémon that has any Dark Energy attached to it has no Retreat Cost.

[D][D][C] Night Spear: 90 damage.Does 30 damage to one of your opponent's Benched Pokémon.(Don't apply Weakness and Resistance for Benched Pokémon.)

Weakness: Fighting(x2)
Resistance: Psychic(-20)
Retreat: 2

Zoroark - Dark - HP100
Stage 1 - Evolves from Zorua

[C][C] Brutal Bash: 20x damage. Does 20 damage times the number of Dark Pokémon you have in play.
[D][D] Dark Rush: 20x damage. Does 20 damage times the number of damage counters on this Pokémon.

Weakness: Fighting(x2)
Resistance: Psychic(-20)
Retreat: 2

Tornadus-EX - Colorless - HP170
Basic Pokémon

[C][C] Blow Through: 30+ damage.If there is any Stadium card in play this attack does 30 more damage.
[C][C][C] Power Blast: 100 damage.Flip a coin. If tails, discard an Energy attached to this Pokémon.

Weakness: Electric(x2)
Resistance: Fighting(-20)
Retreat: 1

Darkness Claw - Tool

Pokémon Tool: To use a Pokémon Tool, attach it to one of your Pokémon. Each Pokémon can only have 1 card attached, and the card remains attached.

The attacks of the Darkness-type Pokémon that this card is attached to do an additional 20 damage to any Active Pokémon.

You can use any number of Trainer cards during your turn.

Dark Patch - Trainer

Choose 1 Basic Darkness Energy card from your discard pile and attach it to one of your Benched Darkness-type Pokémon.

You can use any number of Trainer cards during your turn.

Random Receiver - Trainer

Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a Supporter card. Put it into your hand. Shuffle the other cards back into your deck.

You can use any number of Trainer cards during your turn.

Ultra Ball – Trainer

This card can’t be used unless you discard 2 cards from your hand.

Choose 1 Pokémon card from your deck, show it to your opponent, and put it in your hand. Shuffle your deck afterward.

You can use any number of Trainer cards during your turn.

Set List

***Mekkah***** · Apr 30th, 2012, 3:54:55 AM

darck charley set yea!!!!!

As usual most cards suck, other than the EXes and the TSS. Empoleon has potential, I guess.

Maaf · Apr 30th, 2012, 4:32:39 AM

yeah, pretty bad set, only ~10 good cards i'd say, and let's say half Exes are nice. This format is pretty hard for Empoleon, will have to wait and see if next is a bit better. Zoroark/Sableye/Krookodile can be used in dark decks.
And super mega awesome rare gold Catcher, let's spend 250$ to have 4 in deck.

zero2exe · Apr 30th, 2012, 10:44:45 AM

I already have a dark themed deck in mind, seriously darkness is gonna shake the metagame with zoroark - sableye - Darkari EX and specially with dark patch *___*

rax · Apr 30th, 2012, 1:37:36 PM

Other than EXes (all of which I can see getting play before they rotate except Kyogre) and the trainers, there are a few interesting things at least...

Empoleon has potential, although the typing hurts... water doesn't take out any major meta contenders (unless you still believe in TyRam) and lightning weakness hurts against zeels. In the weird things to try department, if you have a Mew Prime deck that already runs water energy, you could toss this in instead of Jumpluff. (I guess you could also just put it in MeesieMew instead of Pluff if you don't have a Pluff for some reason.) Will it be useful with Mew EX in the future? It's still a stage 2, and there may be better stage 2 options, but it's at least something to consider.

I want Accelgor to be good, but other than Professor Cup I don't see it happening. On the other hand, Lilligant top cut regionals, so who knows! If it were a basic, it would be pretty easy to make work, but as it is I think it would need Vileplume and that makes searching to get it back a lot harder. Celebi/Accelgor/Sunflora/Vileplume with Skyarrow Bridge? Even then, you have the same problem VVV does of losing a prize whenever you get a knockout. But I guess that's where I'd start.

Heatmor may see use in decks that are otherwise awful against Durant --- I'm trying one of it in Lugia Legend now, for example. Other than that it doesn't seem worth the space. I'd be tempted in CMT but I want to add a Tornadus EX anyway and 100 for 3 colorless should be good enough for Durant.

Eelektross is an interesting one-of, and may improve Eels/Vileplume, although I'm not convinced that deck is super viable. At Regionals I played someone who had proxied up Eels/Vileplume with Elektross and Raikou and it was actually pretty solid. Interestingly, it can one-shot Zapdos, which isn't a guaranteed card in zeels but shows up a lot as a fighting counter. If the energy cost were a little lower, I would include it for sure. As it is, I don't know if I will bother. Raikou lets me hit the bench already and isn't as clunky.

Aerodactyl plus Twist Mountain is probably too much space in most decks, but it's a free plus power that can OHKO eels with colorless energy, there might be a way to fit it into something surprising. If it's legal for professor cup it will be awfully tempting there, though probably too finicky.

If the format slows down in a year, or stage 2s get more support, then I could see Venusaur being useful, though I'm not holding my breath.

...seeker/Carnivine? I guess maybe? That's a huge reach though. If you can search for a basic and put three energy on it just seeker/knockout. Lure Poison is better if you would have played Bellsprout anyway but have grass or rainbow/prism energy, but that's a very narrow niche. I can mostly see it against vileplume/reuniclus, much like Luring Lighting Reuniclus was a strong play in Chandelure in HGSS-NV.

As far as the dark stuff goes: Testing with Mekkah has convinced me that Sableye is good, or at least something to be afraid of. Ascension Zorua and new Zoroark are good too, of course, particularly with all of the new toys dark gets. Krookodile? Meh. If it didn't have a fighting weakness it would be more interesting. You can play the old basics and get a different weakness and that's a plus, but you're still gonna be in a bad way. Sure, in the endgame it can OHKO _anything_, but that energy cost is hideous and it's a stage 2. I don't expect it to see play but will be happy for anyone who can make it work.

Personally I think Tornadus EX is the winning card of the set. Fighting resistance, splashable in everything, 100 damage on turn 1 in CMT, 60 on turn 1 in anything? Yes please.

Darkrai EX opens up a new and exciting metagame deck, and also probably raised the value of Terrakion significantly just by being printed. Thanks, Darkrai. It's not an autoloss to Terrakion or anything, but fighting decks will get played, and Darkrai will need an answer. Conveniently Tornadus is right there.

Raikou EX is a really nice addition to Zekeels. More power cards with fighting weakness! But it can take out Eels, it can take out injured things moved to the bench, it can take out Zoroark/Sableye, and its first attack isn't terrible either. I think it will end up a one-of, competing for space with Zekrom EX and Zapdos and maybe Zekrom BLW, although I've seen people testing multiples.

Groudon EX may be much better than some people are giving it credit for if Darkrai and Zeels are the top decks in format. The first attack is likely too slow, although I might prefer it to a 30 damage Retaliate on turn 2, but the second attack can OHKO Zekrom EX, Regigigas EX, Raikou EX, and Darkrai EX with a pluspower, and 180 is stronger than Terrakion's 130 in terms of surviving to do it again a second turn. Is it giving up two prizes stronger? I am not sure. I'd also try it in a Vileplume/Reuniclus engine.

Entei EX doesn't seem very good right now, but I expect it to be useful at some point in the future, maybe with Reshiram or Ninetales BW5. Once Typhlosion is gone, it will be the best from-discard acceleration for fire. It may never hit tier 1 but I will be surprised if it doesn't see play.

Kyogre EX is just terrible. I guess maybe if everyone starts playing 50 HP basics to set up a stage 1s deck with Ninetales, Amoongus, and Roserade or something, you'll be able to pick off easy prizes with it? I guess? I'm reaching here. It's just a bad card.

zero2exe · Apr 30th, 2012, 1:48:52 PM

@rax
True enough, Kyogre Ex is a big dissapointment. I mean C'mon, sure it's great to be able to snipe the bench and have an attack that ignores it's massive retreat cost but still 50 damage isn't KO'ing anything that isn't named tynamo or solosis in the current meta >_>
If only that damage was pumped to 70 per hit then we'd have the ultimate basic killer (at least it would be able to KO reshiram if it's the other active pokemon)

Cassie · Apr 30th, 2012, 3:16:16 PM

Alright, added in pictures of stuff that could be useful from this set, if you think something else should be added let me know.

Anyway, I like the changes that Darkrai will be bringing to the table, seeing as Mewtwo EX was one of the things I really didn't want to use. Absol Prime should be fun until it's eventually rotated out. I'm curious to see how well Raikou will play in Zekeel decks, and I was happy to see that Rare Candies got reprinted. I'm looking forward to trying out Darkrai EX and Groudon EX the most; they're the whole reason why I think this set is decent.

Artwork wise, I like the reprints of the BW Supporters, but some of the EXes didn't reach my expectations especially Kyogre EX and Tornadus EX. Their Full Arts were much better in my opinion. I'd say all the other EXes turned out really nice. I honestly don't like the Shiny Catcher because of it's artwork, but hey it's shiny so everyone wants it.

zero2exe · Apr 30th, 2012, 3:23:23 PM

I think raikou plays pretty much like Zebstrika, it needs to run an alternative kind of energy to be effective (even colorless but anything aside from pure lightning). That way it'll be discarding only 2 energies at once making it easy to recharge it it goes to the bench. I can see it working with skyarrow Bridge.

Ravix · Apr 30th, 2012, 3:59:29 PM

Darkrai, Tornadus, and Raikou are easily the best mons in the set. Followed by Zoruark, Accelgor and Sabeleye.

Dark patch gives dark decks energy acceleration, combined with ultra ball for pokemon fishing. Yum. Dark claw is boss and they were even nice enough to give us Tornadus Ex to deal with terrakion. Splashable, free retreat (With Darkrai), Ex? Yes please.

The old Foul play Zoruark will be pretty useful as well.

bharmalm · Apr 30th, 2012, 4:51:57 PM

No love for Random Reciver?
But i'm looking forward to using Tornadus, and i'm sure that Darkrai + dark patch will see play, but i'm not sure on how good it will actually be.
I think that zeels will still stay strong, but Mewtwo may be a bit shakey.
but I am really looking forward to using Tornadus.
EDIT: also, GOLDEN CATCHER.

Pokemafia · Apr 30th, 2012, 4:54:39 PM

As someone who's been playing tcg now for 7 years, I really am starting to like the artwork on the upcoming cards.

dragonexpert · Apr 30th, 2012, 5:11:13 PM

Aerodactyl won't be banned in the Professor Cup because it is only Basic Pokemon that are banned. Aerodactyl is a Restored Pokemon. I'm not sure if I'm going to playing the Professor Cup or if I'm going to give up my spot and judge side events.

I definitely think Raikou is the best card in the set. It will work so well with Zekeels to get powered up. It wouldn't be hard to fit in one Darkrai in the deck so it could easily get free retreat.

Huy · Apr 30th, 2012, 5:18:40 PM

But then you can just play Skyarrow and get Raikou the free retreat there!

zero2exe · Apr 30th, 2012, 5:19:49 PM

I still wish Darkrai wasn't an ex though, as it'll be a prime target the moment it sets foot on the field, and with a lot of fighting types running around to counter Eelzek it's an easy target for a charged terrakion + catcher >_<

dragonexpert · Apr 30th, 2012, 5:22:16 PM

Skyarrow Bridge also helps your opponent. It also is blocked by Trainer Lock.

Huy · Apr 30th, 2012, 5:35:25 PM

Okay, it does help your opponent, but you can still play it during Trainer Lock since Gothitelle specifies items and Vileplume was errated to say Items. My issue with teching in Darkrai for free retreat is then you have to run either Prism or Darkness energy that can't be recycled with Eels, while if you're just going to roll with Skyarrow, you only need to spend at most 1 or 2 cards in your deck. And I'm not keen on loading up my bench with EX'es with all the Terrakion flying around.

I really hope I can find a good use for Empoleon, though. I love everything about it. Maybe run it alongside Donphan or Terrakion to help against the Lightening weak?

rax · Apr 30th, 2012, 7:26:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat dragonexpert

Aerodactyl won't be banned in the Professor Cup because it is only Basic Pokemon that are banned. Aerodactyl is a Restored Pokemon. I'm not sure if I'm going to playing the Professor Cup or if I'm going to give up my spot and judge side events.

I'm planning on playing, maybe I'll see you there --- I would assume it wouldn't be banned, although I'd want to confirm it before I put it in my deck. ;)

Quote:

I definitely think Raikou is the best card in the set. It will work so well with Zekeels to get powered up. It wouldn't be hard to fit in one Darkrai in the deck so it could easily get free retreat.

I'd rather put in skyarrow or just run switch --- darkrai in zeels is a(nother) benchsitter that terrakion can take out for two prizes, and running a bunch of dark or even prism energy reduces consistency. (And prism gets discarded by Raikou anyway.) I've seen people run Rescue energy also, though I'm not really convinced by the value in that. I may fear Terrakion more than is healthy, though, from playing a bunch of West Coast events with lots of quad-Terrakion decks.

FearZeCrawdaunt · Apr 30th, 2012, 7:33:16 PM

xD first post doesn't even mention Zoroark DEX. I mean... it's not bad. Not sure if tier 1... but not bad.

Also, Accelgor DEX ftw. Deck and Cover.

Alakapimp · Apr 30th, 2012, 8:01:08 PM

I'm not sold on this set, Zorua is my favorite card though.

Novaray · Apr 30th, 2012, 8:35:36 PM

Krookodile also can have some potential. Its second attack deals 40x the number of prize cards you have taken for DDCC which can be useful in turning a lead into an even greater lead. Works like a Reverse Shaymon-EX but can also benefit from Dark Claw/Dark Patch. Entei EX may also have the slightest bit of potential in Fire type decks as his second attack allows you to attach a fire energy from your discard pile to a benched Pokemon.

By far my favorite card in this deck is Raikou EX but I feel that he may be a bit overhyped. I feel that Dark Claw is also a bit underrated, the +20 damage is just great.

zero2exe · Apr 30th, 2012, 11:00:35 PM

Yeah but still that guy is a stage 2 pokemon begging for terrakion to eat him up in a OHKO using retaliate ._. and losing an evolved pokemon to a basic one is never a good deal :3

PokemonCanadians · May 1st, 2012, 3:49:07 PM

Just wondering because I haven't seen any ruling on this but with venusaur's ability do you think it could touch a legend half? Because personally I'm seeing 2 venusaur's sitting on the bench bringing in a legend in 1 turn lol. And an emboar and or feraligatr stacking it and its hitting instantly..I'm sorry if i gave anyone good idea lol but its mainly a question.

As well as I've not seen any ruling on heavy balls touching legend halves other than very mad professors ive battled saying its illegal.

If anyone could reply it wold be great.

Purimpopoie · May 1st, 2012, 4:05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat PokemonCanadians

Just wondering because I haven't seen any ruling on this but with venusaur's ability do you think it could touch a legend half? Because personally I'm seeing 2 venusaur's sitting on the bench bringing in a legend in 1 turn lol. And an emboar and or feraligatr stacking it and its hitting instantly..I'm sorry if i gave anyone good idea lol but its mainly a question.

As well as I've not seen any ruling on heavy balls touching legend halves other than very mad professors ive battled saying its illegal.

If anyone could reply it wold be great.

Legend halves don't have a Retreat Cost, HP, etc when they're not combined on the bench. At least, that's the official explanation I've heard. So they can't be searched with Level Ball or Heavy Ball, but you can get them with cards that only specify a Pokémon, like Ultra Ball or Communication.

The way Venusaur is written, you could search your deck for half of the Legend Card each turn, since each card is a seperate 'Pokémon' (Even if we're talking Lugia or Ho-Oh).

rax · May 1st, 2012, 4:31:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Purimpopoie

Legend halves don't have a Retreat Cost, HP, etc when they're not combined on the bench. At least, that's the official explanation I've heard. So they can't be searched with Level Ball or Heavy Ball, but you can get them with cards that only specify a Pokémon, like Ultra Ball or Communication.

That's correct. Each card alone only has the attributes that are on both cards, like typing and card name. (So if a card let you search for any water pokemon --- Mantine, for example --- you could get a Lugia legend half.) There are one or two edge cases where this doesn't make perfect sense; it's really just retconned logic onto the Japanese ruling.

Quote:

The way Venusaur is written, you could search your deck for half of the Legend Card each turn, since each card is a seperate 'Pokémon' (Even if we're talking Lugia or Ho-Oh).

And you could, as suggested, play two Venusaur and get an entire legend that way. If you can get two Venusaur set up on your bench and not get disrupted. If you want to get both halves of a legend into your hand faster than that, there's Bronzong TM, but it's probably still too slow, and N-vulnerable. I've had good luck with Legend Box, but it's possible I am just absurdly lucky...

PokemonCanadians · May 1st, 2012, 4:34:06 PM

Fair enough. I'd say heavy ball deserves at least the bottom half with the 3 retreat cost but i suppose it would be skeptical. But now with venusaur its a legal way! So happy! Also another way to get them which I've done is pokemon communication.

Apr 30th, 2012, 3:10:04 AM	#1
Cassie giant claw Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 502 Dark Explorers	BW: Dark Explorers Discussion So the new set comes out May 9th and Prereleases are happening everywhere. The list is out and it looks like it'll change the TCG metagame up a bit with the new releases. This thread is mostly just to share your opinions on what you think of the new set and how you think it will affect the current metagame, so without further ado, the set list! Some of the cards with potential Heatmor – Fire – HP90 Basic Pokémon [C] Hot Lick: 10+ damage. If the Defending Pokémon is Durant, this attack does 50 more damage. [R][C][C] Firebreathing: 50+ damage. Flip a coin. If heads, this attack does 20 more damage. Weakness: Water(x2) Resistance: None Retreat: 1 Empoleon - Water - HP140 Stage 2 - Evolves from Prinplup Ability: Diving Draw Once during your turn (before your attack), you may discard a card from your hand. If you do, draw 2 cards. [W] Attack Command: 10x damage. Does 10 damage times the number of Pokémon in play (both yours and your opponent's). Weakness: Electric(x2) Resistance: None Retreat: 2 Raikou-EX - Electric - HP170 Basic Pokémon [E][C] Thunder Fang: 30 damage.Flip a coin. If heads the Defending Pokémon is now Paralyzed. [E][E][C] Volt Bolt:Discard all Electric Energy attached to this Pokémon. This attack does 100 damage to 1 of your opponent's benched Pokémon. (Don't apply Weakness and Resistance for Benched Pokémon.) Weakness: Fighting(x2) Resistance: None Retreat: 1 Groudon-EX - Fighting - HP180 Basic Pokémon [F][C] Tromp: 20 damage.Does 10 damage to each of your opponent's Benched Pokémon. (Don't apply Weakness and Resistance for Benched Pokémon.) [F][F][C] Giant Claw: 80+ damage.If the Defending Pokémon already has 2 or more damage counters on it, this attack does 40 more damage. Weakness: Water(x2) Resistance: Electric(-20) Retreat: 4 Darkrai-EX - Dark - HP180 Basic Pokémon Ability: Dark Cloak Each of your Pokémon that has any Dark Energy attached to it has no Retreat Cost. [D][D][C] Night Spear: 90 damage.Does 30 damage to one of your opponent's Benched Pokémon.(Don't apply Weakness and Resistance for Benched Pokémon.) Weakness: Fighting(x2) Resistance: Psychic(-20) Retreat: 2 Zoroark - Dark - HP100 Stage 1 - Evolves from Zorua [C][C] Brutal Bash: 20x damage. Does 20 damage times the number of Dark Pokémon you have in play. [D][D] Dark Rush: 20x damage. Does 20 damage times the number of damage counters on this Pokémon. Weakness: Fighting(x2) Resistance: Psychic(-20) Retreat: 2 Tornadus-EX - Colorless - HP170 Basic Pokémon [C][C] Blow Through: 30+ damage.If there is any Stadium card in play this attack does 30 more damage. [C][C][C] Power Blast: 100 damage.Flip a coin. If tails, discard an Energy attached to this Pokémon. Weakness: Electric(x2) Resistance: Fighting(-20) Retreat: 1 Darkness Claw - Tool Pokémon Tool: To use a Pokémon Tool, attach it to one of your Pokémon. Each Pokémon can only have 1 card attached, and the card remains attached. The attacks of the Darkness-type Pokémon that this card is attached to do an additional 20 damage to any Active Pokémon. You can use any number of Trainer cards during your turn. Dark Patch - Trainer Choose 1 Basic Darkness Energy card from your discard pile and attach it to one of your Benched Darkness-type Pokémon. You can use any number of Trainer cards during your turn. Random Receiver - Trainer Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a Supporter card. Put it into your hand. Shuffle the other cards back into your deck. You can use any number of Trainer cards during your turn. Ultra Ball – Trainer This card can’t be used unless you discard 2 cards from your hand. Choose 1 Pokémon card from your deck, show it to your opponent, and put it in your hand. Shuffle your deck afterward. You can use any number of Trainer cards during your turn. Set List Bulbasaur (1/108) Ivysaur (2/108) Vensaur (3/108) Scyther (4/108) Carnivine (5/108) Leafeon (6/108) Dwebble (7/108) Crustle (8/108) Karrablast (9/108) Shelmet (10/108) Accelgor (11/108) Flareon (12/108) Entei EX (13/108) Torchic (14/108) Torchic 15/108) Combusken (16/108) Blazekin (17/108) Torkoal (18/108) Heatmor (19/108) Larvesta (20/108) Larvesta (21/108) Volcarona (22/108) Slowpoke (23/108) Slowbro (24/108) Vaporeon (25/108) Kyogre EX (26/108) Piplup (27/108) Primplup (28/108) Empoleon (29/108) Glaceon (30/108) Tympole (31/108) Palpitoad (32/108) Vanillite (33/108) Vanillish (34/108) Ducklett (35/108) Swanna (36/108) Jolteon (37/108) Raikou EX (38/108) Plusle (39/108) Minun (40/108) Joltik (41/108) Joltik (42/108) Galvantula (43/108) Tynamo (44/108) Tynamo (45/108) Eelektrik (46/108) Elekeross (47/108) Espeon (48/108) Slowking (49/108) Woobat (50/108) Yamask (51/108) Cofagrigus (52/108) Aerodactyl (53/108) Groudon EX (54/108) Drilbur (55/108) Excadrill (56/108) Excadrill (57/108) Timburr (58/108) Gurdurr (59/108) Umbreon (60/108) Umbreon (61/108) Sableye (62/108) Darkrai EX (63/108) Sandile (64/108) Krokorok (65/108) Krookodile (66/108) Scraggy (67/108) Scrafty (68/108) Zorua (69/108) Zorua (70/108) Zoroark (71/108) Bisharp (72/108) Vullaby (73/108) Escavalier (74/108) Klink (75/108) Klang (76/108) Klinklang (77/108) Pawniard (78/108) Bisharp (79/108) Chansey (80/108) Chansey (81/108) Blissey (82/108) Eevee (83/108) Eevee (84/108) Chatot (85/108) Lillipup (86/108) Herdier (87/108) Stoutland (88/108) Haxorus (89/108) Tornadus EX (90/108) Cheren (91/108) Dark Claw (92/108) Dark Patch (93/108) Enhanced Hammer (94/108) Hooligans Jim and Cas (95/108) N (96/108) Old Amber Aerodactyl (97/108) Professor Juniper (98/108) Random Receiver (99/108) Rare Candy (100/108) Twist Mountain (101/108) Ultra Ball (102/108) Entei EX (103/108) Kyogre EX (104/108) Raikou EX (105/108) Groudon EX (106/108) Darkrai EX (107/108) Tornadus EX (108/108) Shiny Gadrevoir (109/108) Shiny Archeops (110/108) Shiny Pokémon Catcher (111/108) __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] np: Trade Thread \| #vgc if you want your Pokemon quicker Last edited by Cassie; Apr 30th, 2012 at 8:04:33 PM.

Apr 30th, 2012, 3:54:55 AM	#2
*Mekkah* pfbwowbfobwobwobfwowbf Administrator** Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,835 Most of them are good	darck charley set yea!!!!! As usual most cards suck, other than the EXes and the TSS. Empoleon has potential, I guess. __________________ onions videos cameras models steroids dinoturtlethings

Apr 30th, 2012, 4:32:39 AM	#3
Maaf Let's go for Nanar sweep Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 392 Cute City	yeah, pretty bad set, only ~10 good cards i'd say, and let's say half Exes are nice. This format is pretty hard for Empoleon, will have to wait and see if next is a bit better. Zoroark/Sableye/Krookodile can be used in dark decks. And super mega awesome rare gold Catcher, let's spend 250$ to have 4 in deck. __________________ davidness: ojama es noob de adv davidness: jajaja ᕦ(ˇò_ó)ᕤ ᕦ(ˇò_ó)ᕤ ᕦ(ˇò_ó)ᕤ

Apr 30th, 2012, 10:44:45 AM	#4
zero2exe Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 253 Prinny Land	I already have a dark themed deck in mind, seriously darkness is gonna shake the metagame with zoroark - sableye - Darkari EX and specially with dark patch ___ __________________ Black FC: 1893 2888 8952 Heartgold FC: 0089 4997 0235 Black 2 FC: 0605 2750 9610 Joint thread http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...73#post3678873 Posts #16 to #21 acces to BW2 tutors now! use BW2 FC. No hacked mons ever!

Apr 30th, 2012, 1:48:52 PM	#6
zero2exe Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 253 Prinny Land	@rax True enough, Kyogre Ex is a big dissapointment. I mean C'mon, sure it's great to be able to snipe the bench and have an attack that ignores it's massive retreat cost but still 50 damage isn't KO'ing anything that isn't named tynamo or solosis in the current meta >_> If only that damage was pumped to 70 per hit then we'd have the ultimate basic killer (at least it would be able to KO reshiram if it's the other active pokemon) __________________ Black FC: 1893 2888 8952 Heartgold FC: 0089 4997 0235 Black 2 FC: 0605 2750 9610 Joint thread http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...73#post3678873 Posts #16 to #21 acces to BW2 tutors now! use BW2 FC. No hacked mons ever!

Apr 30th, 2012, 1:37:36 PM	#5
rax Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 40 Tucson, AZ	Other than EXes (all of which I can see getting play before they rotate except Kyogre) and the trainers, there are a few interesting things at least... Empoleon has potential, although the typing hurts... water doesn't take out any major meta contenders (unless you still believe in TyRam) and lightning weakness hurts against zeels. In the weird things to try department, if you have a Mew Prime deck that already runs water energy, you could toss this in instead of Jumpluff. (I guess you could also just put it in MeesieMew instead of Pluff if you don't have a Pluff for some reason.) Will it be useful with Mew EX in the future? It's still a stage 2, and there may be better stage 2 options, but it's at least something to consider. I want Accelgor to be good, but other than Professor Cup I don't see it happening. On the other hand, Lilligant top cut regionals, so who knows! If it were a basic, it would be pretty easy to make work, but as it is I think it would need Vileplume and that makes searching to get it back a lot harder. Celebi/Accelgor/Sunflora/Vileplume with Skyarrow Bridge? Even then, you have the same problem VVV does of losing a prize whenever you get a knockout. But I guess that's where I'd start. Heatmor may see use in decks that are otherwise awful against Durant --- I'm trying one of it in Lugia Legend now, for example. Other than that it doesn't seem worth the space. I'd be tempted in CMT but I want to add a Tornadus EX anyway and 100 for 3 colorless should be good enough for Durant. Eelektross is an interesting one-of, and may improve Eels/Vileplume, although I'm not convinced that deck is super viable. At Regionals I played someone who had proxied up Eels/Vileplume with Elektross and Raikou and it was actually pretty solid. Interestingly, it can one-shot Zapdos, which isn't a guaranteed card in zeels but shows up a lot as a fighting counter. If the energy cost were a little lower, I would include it for sure. As it is, I don't know if I will bother. Raikou lets me hit the bench already and isn't as clunky. Aerodactyl plus Twist Mountain is probably too much space in most decks, but it's a free plus power that can OHKO eels with colorless energy, there might be a way to fit it into something surprising. If it's legal for professor cup it will be awfully tempting there, though probably too finicky. If the format slows down in a year, or stage 2s get more support, then I could see Venusaur being useful, though I'm not holding my breath. ...seeker/Carnivine? I guess maybe? That's a huge reach though. If you can search for a basic and put three energy on it just seeker/knockout. Lure Poison is better if you would have played Bellsprout anyway but have grass or rainbow/prism energy, but that's a very narrow niche. I can mostly see it against vileplume/reuniclus, much like Luring Lighting Reuniclus was a strong play in Chandelure in HGSS-NV. As far as the dark stuff goes: Testing with Mekkah has convinced me that Sableye is good, or at least something to be afraid of. Ascension Zorua and new Zoroark are good too, of course, particularly with all of the new toys dark gets. Krookodile? Meh. If it didn't have a fighting weakness it would be more interesting. You can play the old basics and get a different weakness and that's a plus, but you're still gonna be in a bad way. Sure, in the endgame it can OHKO _anything_, but that energy cost is hideous and it's a stage 2. I don't expect it to see play but will be happy for anyone who can make it work. Personally I think Tornadus EX is the winning card of the set. Fighting resistance, splashable in everything, 100 damage on turn 1 in CMT, 60 on turn 1 in anything? Yes please. Darkrai EX opens up a new and exciting metagame deck, and also probably raised the value of Terrakion significantly just by being printed. Thanks, Darkrai. It's not an autoloss to Terrakion or anything, but fighting decks will get played, and Darkrai will need an answer. Conveniently Tornadus is right there. Raikou EX is a really nice addition to Zekeels. More power cards with fighting weakness! But it can take out Eels, it can take out injured things moved to the bench, it can take out Zoroark/Sableye, and its first attack isn't terrible either. I think it will end up a one-of, competing for space with Zekrom EX and Zapdos and maybe Zekrom BLW, although I've seen people testing multiples. Groudon EX may be much better than some people are giving it credit for if Darkrai and Zeels are the top decks in format. The first attack is likely too slow, although I might prefer it to a 30 damage Retaliate on turn 2, but the second attack can OHKO Zekrom EX, Regigigas EX, Raikou EX, and Darkrai EX with a pluspower, and 180 is stronger than Terrakion's 130 in terms of surviving to do it again a second turn. Is it giving up two prizes stronger? I am not sure. I'd also try it in a Vileplume/Reuniclus engine. Entei EX doesn't seem very good right now, but I expect it to be useful at some point in the future, maybe with Reshiram or Ninetales BW5. Once Typhlosion is gone, it will be the best from-discard acceleration for fire. It may never hit tier 1 but I will be surprised if it doesn't see play. Kyogre EX is just terrible. I guess maybe if everyone starts playing 50 HP basics to set up a stage 1s deck with Ninetales, Amoongus, and Roserade or something, you'll be able to pick off easy prizes with it? I guess? I'm reaching here. It's just a bad card.

Apr 30th, 2012, 3:16:16 PM	#7
Cassie giant claw Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 502 Dark Explorers	Alright, added in pictures of stuff that could be useful from this set, if you think something else should be added let me know. Anyway, I like the changes that Darkrai will be bringing to the table, seeing as Mewtwo EX was one of the things I really didn't want to use. Absol Prime should be fun until it's eventually rotated out. I'm curious to see how well Raikou will play in Zekeel decks, and I was happy to see that Rare Candies got reprinted. I'm looking forward to trying out Darkrai EX and Groudon EX the most; they're the whole reason why I think this set is decent. Artwork wise, I like the reprints of the BW Supporters, but some of the EXes didn't reach my expectations especially Kyogre EX and Tornadus EX. Their Full Arts were much better in my opinion. I'd say all the other EXes turned out really nice. I honestly don't like the Shiny Catcher because of it's artwork, but hey it's shiny so everyone wants it. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] np: Trade Thread \| #vgc if you want your Pokemon quicker

Apr 30th, 2012, 3:23:23 PM	#8
zero2exe Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 253 Prinny Land	I think raikou plays pretty much like Zebstrika, it needs to run an alternative kind of energy to be effective (even colorless but anything aside from pure lightning). That way it'll be discarding only 2 energies at once making it easy to recharge it it goes to the bench. I can see it working with skyarrow Bridge. __________________ Black FC: 1893 2888 8952 Heartgold FC: 0089 4997 0235 Black 2 FC: 0605 2750 9610 Joint thread http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...73#post3678873 Posts #16 to #21 acces to BW2 tutors now! use BW2 FC. No hacked mons ever!

Apr 30th, 2012, 3:59:29 PM	#9
Ravix Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 188 Denton, Texas	Darkrai, Tornadus, and Raikou are easily the best mons in the set. Followed by Zoruark, Accelgor and Sabeleye. Dark patch gives dark decks energy acceleration, combined with ultra ball for pokemon fishing. Yum. Dark claw is boss and they were even nice enough to give us Tornadus Ex to deal with terrakion. Splashable, free retreat (With Darkrai), Ex? Yes please. The old Foul play Zoruark will be pretty useful as well.

Apr 30th, 2012, 4:51:57 PM	#10
bharmalm Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 313 United Kingdom	No love for Random Reciver? But i'm looking forward to using Tornadus, and i'm sure that Darkrai + dark patch will see play, but i'm not sure on how good it will actually be. I think that zeels will still stay strong, but Mewtwo may be a bit shakey. but I am really looking forward to using Tornadus. EDIT: also, GOLDEN CATCHER. Last edited by bharmalm; Apr 30th, 2012 at 5:05:07 PM.

Apr 30th, 2012, 4:54:39 PM	#11
Pokemafia Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 262 TOP CAT.	As someone who's been playing tcg now for 7 years, I really am starting to like the artwork on the upcoming cards. __________________ TOP CAT TOP HAT IT'S A CONSPIRACY.

Apr 30th, 2012, 5:11:13 PM	#12
dragonexpert Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 68 Dragon layer	Aerodactyl won't be banned in the Professor Cup because it is only Basic Pokemon that are banned. Aerodactyl is a Restored Pokemon. I'm not sure if I'm going to playing the Professor Cup or if I'm going to give up my spot and judge side events. I definitely think Raikou is the best card in the set. It will work so well with Zekeels to get powered up. It wouldn't be hard to fit in one Darkrai in the deck so it could easily get free retreat. __________________ Ubers Master Hoster of PokeBeach's PO Server I will only respond if you send me a PM or if you catch me on Skype (dragonexpert8323).

Apr 30th, 2012, 5:18:40 PM	#13
Huy INSTANT BALLS Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,510 for me it was tuesday.	But then you can just play Skyarrow and get Raikou the free retreat there! __________________ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ

Apr 30th, 2012, 5:19:49 PM	#14
zero2exe Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 253 Prinny Land	I still wish Darkrai wasn't an ex though, as it'll be a prime target the moment it sets foot on the field, and with a lot of fighting types running around to counter Eelzek it's an easy target for a charged terrakion + catcher >_< __________________ Black FC: 1893 2888 8952 Heartgold FC: 0089 4997 0235 Black 2 FC: 0605 2750 9610 Joint thread http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...73#post3678873 Posts #16 to #21 acces to BW2 tutors now! use BW2 FC. No hacked mons ever!

Apr 30th, 2012, 5:22:16 PM	#15
dragonexpert Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 68 Dragon layer	Skyarrow Bridge also helps your opponent. It also is blocked by Trainer Lock. __________________ Ubers Master Hoster of PokeBeach's PO Server I will only respond if you send me a PM or if you catch me on Skype (dragonexpert8323).

Apr 30th, 2012, 5:35:25 PM	#16
Huy INSTANT BALLS Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,510 for me it was tuesday.	Okay, it does help your opponent, but you can still play it during Trainer Lock since Gothitelle specifies items and Vileplume was errated to say Items. My issue with teching in Darkrai for free retreat is then you have to run either Prism or Darkness energy that can't be recycled with Eels, while if you're just going to roll with Skyarrow, you only need to spend at most 1 or 2 cards in your deck. And I'm not keen on loading up my bench with EX'es with all the Terrakion flying around. I really hope I can find a good use for Empoleon, though. I love everything about it. Maybe run it alongside Donphan or Terrakion to help against the Lightening weak? __________________ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ (╯°□°）╯︵ [ニニニ] ＬＯＧＴＲＡＰ

Apr 30th, 2012, 7:33:16 PM	#18
FearZeCrawdaunt Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 393 Victoria, BC	xD first post doesn't even mention Zoroark DEX. I mean... it's not bad. Not sure if tier 1... but not bad. Also, Accelgor DEX ftw. Deck and Cover.

Apr 30th, 2012, 8:01:08 PM	#19
Alakapimp All washed up Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,110 Salt Lake City, UT	I'm not sold on this set, Zorua is my favorite card though. __________________

Apr 30th, 2012, 8:35:36 PM	#20
Novaray i am happy Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 1,138 that's just the saddest lie Mentor	Krookodile also can have some potential. Its second attack deals 40x the number of prize cards you have taken for DDCC which can be useful in turning a lead into an even greater lead. Works like a Reverse Shaymon-EX but can also benefit from Dark Claw/Dark Patch. Entei EX may also have the slightest bit of potential in Fire type decks as his second attack allows you to attach a fire energy from your discard pile to a benched Pokemon. By far my favorite card in this deck is Raikou EX but I feel that he may be a bit overhyped. I feel that Dark Claw is also a bit underrated, the +20 damage is just great. __________________ island in the sun

Apr 30th, 2012, 11:00:35 PM	#21
zero2exe Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 253 Prinny Land	Yeah but still that guy is a stage 2 pokemon begging for terrakion to eat him up in a OHKO using retaliate ._. and losing an evolved pokemon to a basic one is never a good deal :3 __________________ Black FC: 1893 2888 8952 Heartgold FC: 0089 4997 0235 Black 2 FC: 0605 2750 9610 Joint thread http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...73#post3678873 Posts #16 to #21 acces to BW2 tutors now! use BW2 FC. No hacked mons ever!

May 1st, 2012, 3:49:07 PM	#22
PokemonCanadians Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2	questioning Just wondering because I haven't seen any ruling on this but with venusaur's ability do you think it could touch a legend half? Because personally I'm seeing 2 venusaur's sitting on the bench bringing in a legend in 1 turn lol. And an emboar and or feraligatr stacking it and its hitting instantly..I'm sorry if i gave anyone good idea lol but its mainly a question. As well as I've not seen any ruling on heavy balls touching legend halves other than very mad professors ive battled saying its illegal. If anyone could reply it wold be great.

May 1st, 2012, 4:34:06 PM	#25
PokemonCanadians Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2	Fair enough. I'd say heavy ball deserves at least the bottom half with the 3 retreat cost but i suppose it would be skeptical. But now with venusaur its a legal way! So happy! Also another way to get them which I've done is pokemon communication.