Amoonguss: Just Amoonguss

[Danger Mouse]

Wow, let's not make out Amoongus into something it isn't. Obviously with Regenerator, good bulk, and access to spore, it'll be effective in the metagame, but keep in mind it has some serious limitations...
it has poor offensive stats, it's terribly slow, and it has serious 'four moveslot' syndrome...it'll be a good defensive tool but if you're seriously trying to use this thing to take on dragons, you're doing it wrong.

[bluemon]

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

Hitting dragons is a pretty big deal, although I honestly have yet to use clear smog in a battle, I don't know though it may be just how I play. So I am actually thinking about sludge bomb > clear smog, also being about to insta-beat opposing blelooms is pretty cool, and on a side not sludge bomb poison hax could really help vs Jellicent, Sableye, and Mew.

Some other notes:

This thing has HP divisible by 8, which should mean that it should run only 248 HP to reduce rock damage, although I'm not sure how generator effects this.

I don't see why black sludge can't be used either, if your using this as your rotom counter, it shouldn't be a problem, trick all you want rotom.

I think the reason leftovers is always preferred is because that said rotom can always trick black sludge onto another poke on your team.

Originally Posted by Fat Danger Mouse

Wow, let's not make out Amoongus into something it isn't. Obviously with Regenerator, good bulk, and access to spore, it'll be effective in the metagame, but keep in mind it has some serious limitations...
it has poor offensive stats, it's terribly slow, and it has serious 'four moveslot' syndrome...it'll be a good defensive tool but if you're seriously trying to use this thing to take on dragons, you're doing it wrong.

It's not that people try to counter dragons with it, (it really can't bar special ones) its that people just don't want it to be a sitting duck doing nothing when you're against a dragon. And 85 base attacking stats aren't bad. If only those were its defense stats -__-

[Lavos Spawn]

Originally Posted by Fat Yggdrasill00

As long as Natural Cure users like Starmie or Celebi (the former is popular on rain teams) aren't running around on that rain team then yeah that could get annoying.

Well considering today's rain is Politoed / Tornadus-T / Thundurus-T / Ferrothorn / Keldeo / filler, with that filler usually being something like Dugtrio or Haxorus, then yeah I'd say that set tears things apart.

Sand stall forever. :O

[jaredz99]

So, doesn't the possible prevalence of this core make a possible release of moxie Heracross even that more devastating? I'm pretty sure Hera outspeeds without a scarf, so status orb/CC/Megahorn will obliterate this core and get some attack boosts to go with it...

[bluemon]

Originally Posted by Fat jaredz99

So, doesn't the possible prevalence of this core make a possible release of moxie Heracross even that more devastating? I'm pretty sure Hera outspeeds without a scarf, so status orb/CC/Megahorn will obliterate this core and get some attack boosts to go with it...

I believe moxie Heracross is unreleased?
And besides, that's what the other 4 members of your team is for. No core is perfect

[Yggdrasill00]

Originally Posted by Fat jaredz99

So, doesn't the possible prevalence of this core make a possible release of moxie Heracross even that more devastating? I'm pretty sure Hera outspeeds without a scarf, so status orb/CC/Megahorn will obliterate this core and get some attack boosts to go with it...

Well yeah the shroom is gonna have counters but he still can be a driving force on the team.

[Scarfwynaut]

Guys by "take on dragons" I mean kill them on the switch in with HP ice, or one on one before they boost lol. Amoongus take take some weak outrages.

Edit: Moxie heracross was realeased a while back. Also, this team is in general weak to bug types, but your obligary counter / check for Scizor should be about to deal with Heracross.

Edit of Edit: huh maybe moxie isn't realeased, I could of sworn I saw a scarf moxie heracross or two on the ladder though...

[Yggdrasill00]

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

Guys by "take on dragons" I mean kill them on the switch in with HP ice, or one on one before they boost lol. Amoongus take take some weak outrages.

As long as the Dragon isn't Kingdra XD

[Danger Mouse]

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

Guys by "take on dragons" I mean kill them on the switch in with HP ice, or one on one before they boost lol. Amoongus take take some weak outrages.

Edit: Moxie heracross was realeased a while back. Also, this team is in general weak to bug types, but your obligary counter / check for Scizor should be about to deal with Heracross.

Edit of Edit: huh maybe moxie isn't realeased, I could of sworn I saw a scarf moxie heracross or two on the ladder though...

I'd assume that Amoongus is going to be EV'd defensively and carry leftovers, so is an uninvested HP Ice really going to OHKO anything outside of Salamence or maybe Haxorus? Is there a good damage calc around here that takes Gen 5 stuff into account?

[bluemon]

Iirc, none of the dragons are OHKOED

[Lavos Spawn]

Originally Posted by Fat Danger Mouse

I'd assume that Amoongus is going to be EV'd defensively and carry leftovers, so is an uninvested HP Ice really going to OHKO anything outside of Salamence or maybe Haxorus? Is there a good damage calc around here that takes Gen 5 stuff into account?

yes

[Yggdrasill00]

Originally Posted by Fat bluemon

Iirc, none of the dragons are OHKOED

Did the Calcs and yeah he doesn't even OHKO Flygon or Salamence.

[Danger Mouse]

where is it? the damage calc linked to from the main smogon page is outdated.

[Scarfwynaut]

Ive been using 28 special attack evs to break Keldeos sub after Lee mentioned it, there are with that:

HP ice vs:
Salamence: (74.92 - 88.21%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Dragonite: (55.72 - 66.87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Landorus(both): (77.74 - 91.53%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I run 252 HP / 76 Def Calm so:
Outrage Dragonite: (61.8 - 72.91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Outrage Salamence: (80.55 - 95.13%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Landorus earthquake: (43.51 - 51.38%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Landorus earthquake in sand: (56.94 - 67.12%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and weather
Landorus-T earthquake: (48.61 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Note I am not saying Amoongus is a counter for ANY of this pokemon, it can't switch in at all, however, it can be an effective check to them if need be, and I would rather have HP ice and beat them when I need to then not.

[bluemon]

With those calcs (thanks btw) I am thinking that in some cases amoonguss serves as a great pivot. Take an attack, regenerate on the switch into a surefire counter (or a fodder so that your amoonguss can come back in with more health)

[ThePillsburyDoughBoy]

Personally I think Clear Smog is the better choice. Putting a sweeper to sleep to then avoid the KO's/sweeps from their boosts is very useful (say BU Breloom). Sometimes you won't have the ability to KO and your team mates are too threten by those boosts when you waste turns trying to phaze it out with something else (adds two extra turns for wake there).

[Ouro]

I just realized that Modest Life Orb Hydreigon does a really good job of harassing the Amoonguss/Heatran/Slowbro core.

--
Amoonguss Bold 252 HP 36 Def 220 Sp.Def

Fire Blast: 341-403 (78.93 - 93.28%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Amoonguss Calm 252 HP 252 Sp.Def

Fire Blast: 302-356 (69.9 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Amoonguss Bold 252 HP 252 Def

Fire Blast: 434-512 (100.46 - 118.51%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Heatran Calm 248 HP 252 Sp.Def

Focus Blast: 250-296 (64.93 - 76.88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Slowbro Bold 252 HP 252 Def

Dark Pulse: 439-517 (111.42 - 131.21%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Amoonguss and Slowbro really struggle to damage him back. Offensive Heatran variants can KO with Dragon Pulse or HP Ice after residual but risk the OHKO with Focus Blast.

[Scarfwynaut]

This is why I run Chansey with Scizor as a check and not cruddy Heatran.

Ive never had much success with Heatran, using a special wall with no real recovery... is just bad, it doesn't even cover that many special threats.

[Mr.Fuji]

FYI, moxie heracross and moxie pinsir are released. How do i know? I tested them along with other pokes on random wifi. I talked about this in the smogon IRC a few days ago. I was able to get online and battle with moxie cross/pinsir (they passed the online hack checks, which are accurate when it comes to abilities), as well as technician breloom, days before it was 'officially' found by serebii.

I also played with multiscale dragonite on random wifi back in black1, a week or so before it was found by serebii.

P.S: no, shadow tag chandelure is not released, according to my tests, neither is lightningrod zapdos or sheer force feraligatr :[

[Scarfwynaut]

Originally Posted by Fat Mr.Fuji

P.S: no, shadow tag chandelure is not released

I love you. Now I need not fear for a few months.

This is an odd place to post this though, next time post these updates in the general discussion please.

[ThePillsburyDoughBoy]

MoxieCross is here :Ooooo Step aside Breloom I have found my other love

[Rizen]

I mentioned this in an NU post, but here we go. Amoongus to counter Keldeo?

Volcarona can work on a rain team, it's on site as Moths Like Water, Not Fire (Drizzle Volcarona)

The Volcarona is capable of causing a headache for the whole Amonguss set. In Rain Hurricane does 62.5%-73.61% before any entry hazards (SR/Spikes), and assuming that Volcarona hasn't performed one Quiver Dance.

After one Quiver Dance Volcarona's Hurricane would do 93.52%-110.19% as a 62.5% chance to OHKO.

If you're pairing it with Slowbro, Volcarona's Hurricane still is a nightmare doing 53.78%-63.44% before one Quiver Dance, and although it can survive an attack after one Quiver Dance it has almost no health left.

On top of that Hurricane's 30% chance to confuse, can become aggravating.

Just something to keep in mind.

TL;DR: Volcarona/Keldeo pairing kills Slowbro/Amoonguss pairing.

[bluemon]

which is why amoongbro should be paired with heatran or blissey. (specially defensive flareon lol)

[IcyMan28]

Sub Hydreigon is another challenge to the Guss/Bro/Tran core. A simple set of Dragon Pulse / Fire Blast / Focus Blast / Sub can lay down the law. Actually, Hydreigon in general is an issue, especially now that it has Superpower access for the mixed set.

[EtherDrive]

If it wasn't for the fact that volcarona was 4x SR weak, I'd say he'd make a good special wall for a FWG core since, unlike heatran, He has a reliable heal in Roost

Game Freak really needs to make some defensive fire types.