Amoonguss: Just Amoonguss

[bluemon]

I kinda was successful with ninetales, honestly. It competes with other weathers well and allows slowbro to hit very hard with flamethrower.


Ninetales @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flamethrower
- Roar


I mean its not the best thing EVER, but it is pretty useful for sun teams to have while also forming a great FWG core.

Ninetales is also pretty safe to switch in on tornadus-t and tornadus-I because hurricane has 50 percent accuracy under sun.

EDIT: moltres and volcarona dont seem that bad..


Volcarona @ Leftovers
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Will-O-Wisp
- Fiery Dance
- Roost

[Sensei_Bobbilytus]

Originally Posted by Fat bluemon

which is why amoongbro should be paired with heatran or blissey. (specially defensive flareon lol)

Seriously? How did you miss something as easy as Bromoonguss? Sounds much better than the clunky "amoongbro".
My real question though is, how is this core going to differentiate from your standard JelliThorn core, in terms of standing out as better? Let's not forget that JelliThorn has the advantage of better secondary typing/synergy, and built-in Hazard/Spinblocker status that you would still need to consider otherwise with Slowbro and Amoonguss.
They do play really well together as a defensive core, but they don't really bring much to the table beyond being bulky - Slowbro has decent power, and Amoonguss has Spore, but not much else really; Guss doesn't have the Leech Seed that Ferrothorn has, and Bro doesn't have much Jellicent doesn't - trick room, recover, scald, you name it; all the while Jelli boasts immunity to Fighting, which is good stuff.
I mean, together they ARE good, but I dunno if it's going to rock OU - it's more likely to be a really decent UU strategy.

[bluemon]

The best thing about them is passive recovery. Both of them can regenerate health by switching back and forth. Jellicent can't do that.

And slowbro has the same sp.atk stat as starmie. Its not weak.

[Sensei_Bobbilytus]

Slowbo might not be weak, but unlike starmie, you're probably using it defensively, so it just doesn't have that sweeping potential (hence I said "decent", because without investment, it's not likely to KO many things that it's not Super Effective against).

And the passive recovery is good, but they both have access to auto-recovery moves, which not only heal more, but allow it to stay in - if they can predict your switch, it's still a free turn, and they can punish you pretty severely. It's good news for Bro/Moonguss, but as a defensive core, relying on switching just to recover only really serves those two specifically better, at the potential cost of the rest of your team.

I'm not arguing if Slowbro or Jellicent is better, I think the passive recovery is on par with Jellicent's better typing; but let's face it, one is OU, one is UU. I personally like Slowbro better, but JelliThorn just has better move-for-move synergy, that's better at supporting a team, not a gimmicky switch-back-and-forth game that's weak to any standard BoltBeam

[bluemon]

Originally Posted by Fat Sensei_Bobbilytus

Slowbo might not be weak, but unlike starmie, you're probably using it defensively, so it just doesn't have that sweeping potential (hence I said "decent", because without investment, it's not likely to KO many things that it's not Super Effective against).

And the passive recovery is good, but they both have access to auto-recovery moves, which not only heal more, but allow it to stay in - if they can predict your switch, it's still a free turn, and they can punish you pretty severely. It's good news for Bro/Moonguss, but as a defensive core, relying on switching just to recover only really serves those two specifically better, at the potential cost of the rest of your team.

I'm not arguing if Slowbro or Jellicent is better, I think the passive recovery is on par with Jellicent's better typing; but let's face it, one is OU, one is UU. I personally like Slowbro better, but JelliThorn just has better move-for-move synergy, that's better at supporting a team, not a gimmicky switch-back-and-forth game that's weak to any standard BoltBeam

But the thing is, in this fast paced metagame, you really don't have the luxury of taking a turn to recover. Not saying that ferrocent is bad, but the same things you said to amoongbro can be applied to ferrocent. Common wall breakers can decimate the core, (hydreigon, tyranitar, salamence) and ferrothorn doesn't even have reliable recovery. I mean if you want, you CAN run synthesis and slack off on slowbro (slowbro actually always carries synthesis) but I think amoongbro has its merits. They are nth good cores, but I believe 3-Pokemon cores are best.

If you want a 2 poke core, maybe try slowking? Idk. Slowking does get dragon tail for phasing, which is cool

[ThePillsburyDoughBoy]

Wow I just thought of this now after trying to find a replacement on a team and I can't beleive a change like this couldn't have been anymore simple ;.; People have mentioned the annoying Sub Keldeo mind games and you put in 28 sp. atk EV's to break +2 CM subs. I am surprised a change I am going to show hasn't been mentioned once from where I have looked.

Amoonguss (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Seed Bomb
- Spore
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Clear Smog / Knock Off / Rest

Alright my logic behind this was that I wanted to avoid mind games and wondered if Seed Bomb could fit in. "Shucks, that means I am going to have a -spe nature" and then I was like oh wait Amoongus has garbage speed anyway. I realized that since you run HP Ice, you underslow CM Reuniclus by default (base 30), so the only target that you miss out on is opposing Amoonguss. Now a mirror match against opposing Amoonguss is really negligible situation, so the speed drop doesn't matter at all!

Now what does Seed Bomb have over Giga Drain? The original intent was that it let's you avoid the mindgames that happen with SubCM Keldeo. But what about Giga Drain's healing effect? Well considering how weak Giga Drain is, it isn't that helpful for healing and you will be using smart switches with Regnerator as your primary source for it right? The other benefit is that it allows you to recooperate those lost 28 EV's and put them right back into special defense or defense. If you put them back into special defense, you retain that extra special point you once lost!

Since you can face SubCM Keldeo much more comfortably, Clear Smog is much more useful. You won't have to worry about giving them an extra CM to potentially break past you. However Knock Off is a favorite of mine since it makes dealing with OCM Keldeo and Specs a lot easier. Hope this might change some of your guys minds :p

edit: just realized you are affected by scald burns :\

[tomtom5858]

Thundurus-T +2 LO:

Amoonguss (OU Double Status) HP Ice 85.64 - 100.92% Thunder 54.86 - 64.58%

And Specially Defensive is OHKOed with a layer of Spikes and SR. Yeah, great counter...

[Electrolyte]

Originally Posted by Fat tomtom5858

Thundurus-T +2 LO:

Amoonguss (OU Double Status) HP Ice 85.64 - 100.92% Thunder 54.86 - 64.58%

And Specially Defensive is OHKOed with a layer of Spikes and SR. Yeah, great counter...

Most people don't run both Spikes and SR anymore, and go for a more offensive approach towards other players. Still, I agree that Amoonguss is a pretty shaky counter to Thunderus-T.
I must point out that HP Ice can OHKO but the chance of that is tiny, about 7% OHKO. That's at +2, with LO. What is Amoonguss doing while you get there? Sporing/Stun Sporing your ass off.

Of course, it really can't do anything other than that to Thunderus-T...

[Amell]

Keldeo can always use Substitute, so it's good to effort enough SpA to break its substitute.

[Scarfwynaut]

To be honest if Amoonguss can have a good chance to take on thundurus that is pretty good, its closer than most pokemon get to countering it. Not to mention it needs life orb to do that, and a good portion of thundurus carry lum berry. If anything it makes the game more about who can keep the hazards down, which isn't bad at all.

[Skore]

It has really surprised me this week the number of Amoongus users that Spore as soon as they switch in. I run Espeon, so it usually ends badly for them and keeps momentum in my favor.

[Meru]

Originally Posted by Fat ThePillsburyDoughBoy

Amoonguss (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Seed Bomb
- Spore
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Clear Smog / Knock Off / Rest

Does Amoonguss even learn Knock Off?

[melvni]

Originally Posted by Fat Meru

Does Amoonguss even learn Knock Off?

I actually was wondering the same thing since I thought I remembered wanting to use it on a set earlier. It looks like it doesn't since it's not on its tutor list and Pokemon Showdown says it's illegal.

[ThePillsburyDoughBoy]

Originally Posted by Fat melvni

I actually was wondering the same thing since I thought I remembered wanting to use it on a set earlier. It looks like it doesn't since it's not on its tutor list and Pokemon Showdown says it's illegal.

Yeah it doesn't I thought it did :( however the point still stands about those 28 ev's

[Arcticblast]

Originally Posted by Fat Skore

It has really surprised me this week the number of Amoongus users that Spore as soon as they switch in. I run Espeon, so it usually ends badly for them and keeps momentum in my favor.

A lot of people throw their Politoed out against Amoonguss, believe it or not. It's a decent sleep absorber.

That's why you Giga Drain on the switch ;)

[wobbahax]

Originally Posted by Fat tomtom5858

Thundurus-T +2 LO:

Amoonguss (OU Double Status) HP Ice 85.64 - 100.92% Thunder 54.86 - 64.58%

And Specially Defensive is OHKOed with a layer of Spikes and SR. Yeah, great counter...

Nobody runs life orb on Thundurus anyways. Also slowbro can come in on the predicted HP ice/spore if one on one; on the switch, -i would- why would anyone switch in amoonguss anyways. The best bet to check thundurus is sash mamoswine, can sash a 70% accuracy focus blast is immune to thunderbolt and resists HP ice. can retaliate with an icicle crash/ice shard, calc unsure but does a lot.

[New World Order]

I gave this fat mushroom a try on DW and was thoroughly impressed by it's ability to completely shut down some of the best sweepers in the game. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if/when I start to play frequently again, Amoongus had found it's way into BW2 Standard OU.

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

So do we prefer Clear Smog or Stun Spore? They both stop Keldeo, Breloom, Virizion, etc :)

I guess I like Stun Spore because it's such a nasty shock when they switch in their sleep bait, get parahaxed, then find something actually good get spored. I feel like Stun Spore always gets those Heatran and Jirachi that think they have a free-switch in.

[Scarfwynaut]

Originally Posted by Fat Cipher Admin Lovrina

So do we prefer Clear Smog or Stun Spore? They both stop Keldeo, Breloom, Virizion, etc :)

I guess I like Stun Spore because it's such a nasty shock when they switch in their sleep bait, get parahaxed, then find something actually good get spored. I feel like Stun Spore always gets those Heatran and Jirachi that think they have a free-switch in.

Yeah every Amoongus set should have clear smog, not only does it allow you to beat Breloom, but Conkeldurr, weak ass thundurses, keldeo, bulk up Scrafty, and Virizion. I honestly don't see how your beating Breloom or Virizio without it. If anything in my experience, HP ice is the move to toss if you want to use stun spore, its for incoming pokemon like Salamence to cripple which stun spore does the same to (cripple vs kill I guess). The only good use ive seen for HP ice is Gliscor honestly.

Basically the standard set should be:
-spore
-giga drain
-clear smog
-HP ice / stun spore

Ive actually been using sludge bomb in the last slot, sludge bomb is its strongest move, only slightly weaker than HP ice against thundurus-T and tornadus, the chance of poison (although normal) is pretty neat to. Sludge bomb is very helpful vs all versions of Breloom to 1HKO, hit Abomasnow hard. Also poison actually has pretty good coverage, so its pretty good to hit on the switch, its not like HP ice is adding much else to the coverage anyway as your still completely walled by all steels.

[New World Order]

Originally Posted by Fat Cipher Admin Lovrina

So do we prefer Clear Smog or Stun Spore? They both stop Keldeo, Breloom, Virizion, etc :)

I guess I like Stun Spore because it's such a nasty shock when they switch in their sleep bait, get parahaxed, then find something actually good get spored. I feel like Stun Spore always gets those Heatran and Jirachi that think they have a free-switch in.

Clear Smog Clear Smog Clear Smog. This move is probably the second most important on Amoongus, as it lets you shut down so many sweepers hard. Stun Spore is nice, but do you really think that a paralyzed Heatran is that much less dangerous? It can still fire off it's Fire Blasts all day long, and it's low base Speed means it doesn't really care for paralysis besides the annoying parahax. Clear Smog lets Amoongus shut down the likes of Poison Heal Breloom, who are unaffected by Spore, and also gives you a way to shut down threats like T-T and Keldeo without resorting to Spore, which is honestly just a panic button. I would argue that Hidden Power Fire, though, is a viable option in place of Hidden Power Ice, the ability to shut down Volt-turn without Infernape/Hydreigon single handedly? Yes please.

[Ernesto]

Hi! I'm a new member to the forum though I've been reading a lot for the past few months until I finally decided to get an account (and found the confirmation email lol).

...

---

I've been a big fan of Slowbro ever since he got Regenerator, because I felt that he could be standard OU once again (since his debut in RBY). Of course, that didn't happen, but he's still very useful. I'd made a team for him to work perfectly in standard OU by wrapping him around favorable companions (thanks to Beldum Labs), and I was quick to see how well he'd do with Amoonguss. Unfortunately, BW2 wasn't out yet, so I had to replace it with Roserade until it got its DW ability. Now that BW2 is released, I've had a lot of fun using this core in OU - it can also be used effectively in UU, at least for now -, and I have to say Slowbro DOESN'T DIE. He's incredibly resilient.

Well, what I wanted to say was that Clear Smog is extremely useful, making only those who hide behind Subs be protected (nothing new there). If you're using the BroMoonguss core, Slowbro has access to Thunder Wave which is much more reliable than Stun Spore (except versus Ground types and Volt Absorbers, of course). Slowbro can also run Yawn against stat boosters, but I find Clear Smog to be more useful. That said, Stun Spore in Amoonguss is amazing, since it cripples Tornadus-T's that come to absorb the Spore on the first move and completely reduces their usefulness for the rest of the match (I'd found Tornadus-T to be very good with Sleep Talk, and figured people would take advantage of that in the Specs set). Dual status is just that great. That made me have to forgo HP Ice, but I'd found that I had more reliable ways to kill Dragons/Therians than with an uninvested SpA stat and an incredibly low Speed stat.
Another thing I wanted to say is, I found it really useful using the set posted by ThePillsburyDoughBoy, since I'd found that my team was very weak to SubCM Jirachi (and I mean painfully weak), since I had to switch a lot in order to break its subs and then either phaze him or beat it - Heatran in Rain didn't KO it, of course). A Sassy nature means that you can be Spored by opposing Amoonguss, but that's about it, and I guess if you can be slower than Trick Room Reuniclus it's compensated (especially if they're running CM+TR, no matter how uncommon).

...

---

On another topic, I almost got swept by a +2 Conkeldurr with Flame Orb and Substitute, due to my silliness of not making Slowbro slower than him to highly reduce Payback's damage (it took more than half his health). I ended up KOing it, but I was supposed to have the most solid counter, right? Isn't one of Slowbro's more important jobs switching in on any of Conk's moves and immediately threaten it? So I guess it should be standard for Slowbro to run only 19 Speed IV's (instead of a -Spe nature) to prevent that from happening - believe me, it's not nice. Just wanted to share that!

Wow, sorry for writing so much on my very first post (though I guess the hide tags helped), if you want I'll edit it with a tl;dr version later (I'll have to get accustomed to that, since I'm like the king of ranting :P).
Thank you for reading!

[NoUserName]

I tried it, this thing is wonderful, Laughs at Keldeo and resist a lot.

In my stall team, I run Toxic, because I was annoying that Amoonguss was useless against defensive mons. I don't need Clear Smog because I have Haze and Roar in my team.
I used to run Foul Play but I didn't find useful at all, except when I killed a Gengar with it(Shadow Ball Life Orb-less did around 28% to Sp Def Amoonguss to show how bulky is)

Is Seed Bomb worth trying? Without it and without Stun Spore/Clear Smog, Keldeo can attempt to CM. But with Seed Bomb, Scalds in the switch harms a lot, and I didn't find no other situation where Seed Bomb could be useful.

Also, to stand out Hidden Power Ice is very useful, it also damages SD Toxic Orb Gliscor in a pinch.

[Scarfwynaut]

What exactly are you running toxic over on slowbro? Slowbro needs scald and slack off at the very least. Ice beam is AMAZING vs Dragonite and Salamence, and psychic is pretty great to nab Toxicroak, Cloyseter, Conkeldurr, and Terrakion after a bit of prior damage. Honestly I can't see where you are using toxic, you can't exactly stall out a dragon dance dragonite or Cloyster, its going to kill slowbro, and possibly your whole team or at the least a few members before you can stop it.

While under speeding min speed conk is cool, it is pretty freaking rare, honestly I have yet to see it, your probably more likely to get parahaxed to death or critted by thunder punch before that. Also there is some reason to run speed on Slowbro interestingly, or to just keep it at least have no speed investment, to outspeed / speed tie volt switch forretress and scald it before it gets out or to land a psychic on Amoonguss, both which are more common.

[Danger Mouse]

what, exactly, can amoongbro do to hydreigon? it seems to me that the combination of fire blast/dark pulse absolutely DESTROYS that combo, especially out of rain. just a huge threat that needs to be watched for if you're planning on using that core (and Superpower/Focus Blast/Earth Power neatly deals with Heatran)

[Ernesto]

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

While under speeding min speed conk is cool, it is pretty freaking rare, honestly I have yet to see it, your probably more likely to get parahaxed to death or critted by thunder punch before that. Also there is some reason to run speed on Slowbro interestingly, or to just keep it at least have no speed investment, to outspeed / speed tie volt switch forretress and scald it before it gets out or to land a psychic on Amoonguss, both which are more common.

Yea, but if you're running Slowbro you know one of its better jobs is that it can switch in on any of Conk's moves and force it out, that's why it's one of the very few that can be considered 'hard counters'. I know min speed conk should be plain rare, but it's still the standard set on smogon, isn't it? 0 Speed IV's and a Brave nature? Yea, I know that underspeeding Amoonguss is not something I'd like (I think Psyshock is the move you'd use, though it's just a matter of what you're trying to hit) since even after Sleep Clause has been activated, Giga Drain hurts, but I think it's not that worth it to outspeed or speed tie neither Forry nor Guss, I wouldn't actually be switching the Bro in on them, while I'd certainly switch it in on Conkeldurr. But hey! It's just a matter of preference. If you don't have a better way of taking Forry and Guss than with Slowbro, while you can deal with Conk with another Poké, you can certainly put 4 Speed EV's in order to beat them while Conk with Adamant nature will still be faster than you...

Hydreigon with a moveset of Draco Meteor/ Dragon Pulse, Fire Blast/ Flamethrower, Dark Pulse and Superpower @ Life Orb/ Expert Belt wrecks SkarmBliss, FerroCent and BroMoonguss, while Superpower also hurts Heatran and Chansey badly. The same can be said about Celetran, too. I guess that's why you need other team members, right? I mean, in one moveset it can beat three or four different defensive cores, without having to lock itself on a move. At least BroMoonguss can use Regenerator to heal themselves if they weren't OHKO'd... The best way to deal with Hydreigon today, for stall anyway, is wither to pack priority/ a Poké that outspeeds, or get lucky with a T-Wave/Toxic/PHazing move on the predicted switchin. I doubt that set will become standard, but it's definitely a good answer if you're having trouble with Stall.