BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

[NoUserName]

Reuniclus is a great pokemon in the current metagame with the TR set.
Just point out that Psychic is ten thousand times better than Psyshock and HP Fire is better than Focus Miss if Tyranitar and Heatran are already covered, because it can 100% KO Genesects in the switch(and Scizors) out of rain, and even in rain there is a good chance after SR, and it is not going to miss like Focus Miss.
Keldeo for instance can cover Scizor, Tyranitar and the blobs, making Psyshock and Focus Blast less necessary.

Shadow Ball is necessary for the Lati twins, Starmie, Espeon, Alakazam and other Reuniclus.

I can't count how many times it saved me, I specially remember to win a 1-3 after using TR twice(a second TR when the first ended)
And my team isn't focused in TR, is a Balanced team that "slow" Bulky Sweepers of my team can use it.

192 HP / 64 Def Quiet is very important, because it can survive to 3 CB Close Combats of Jolly Terrakion(41%-49%)with max damage while 252 HP Quiet cannot(43%-51%) and I haven't never noticed any advantage of running the last spread instead of the former.




Another good mon in this metagame is Breloom when finding a Water check that it is good offensively, but not only the Technician one, the Posion Heal one with 236 HP / 212 SpD / 60 Spe and Careful(spread taken by the Bulk Up set)

When Toxiced by Toxic Orb, it is a great Scald absorber and it is not KOed by an Ice Beam of LO Timid Starmie or Genesect +0 Ice Beam and takes 50%-59% by +1 U-turn of Gene.

I have it with Spore, Seed Bomb, Drain Punch and the 4th move is almost a Filler, I have it with Swords Dance if I face Stall.

[alkinesthetase]

specially defensive looms are a tough thing to use these days; bulk up is absolutely dreadful in this meta (my thoughts - lengthy - are here). really the only reason bulk up loom still exists is because it's a holdover from the days of bw1 sand volt-turn, and that was a LONG time ago lol

that being said, being able to switch in on scalds and volt switches for free is pretty sweet, although i hate how much damage the typical ice beam does. loom has such a great typing... if only it had better bulk. i have heard good things about subpunch loom in this meta, as well as an intriguing leech seed+protect set that i saw posted by dragonuser in the mon of the week thread. haven't tried either lately, though.

[NoUserName]

I forgot to say that one of the main reasons of using that version of Breloom is the fact that it's one of the best counters to Rotom-W, when poisoned, inmune to WoW and it is a counter of Rotom-W not weak to Pursuit.
Also Ferrothorn and Gastrodon can do nothing against(Ferro only setting Spikes in the switch)

I have another Water resistor on my team, but dislikes Toxics from Gastrodon, Scald's burns and Power Whip.

I use it on a Sand Team, so trying to make Bulk Up work is ever more difficult, so I replaced it. I agree that BU isn't useful in the current metagame with a lot of mons that resist Fight and Grass and Breloom slowliness and lack of bulk. I have thought to replace it with Stun Spore, but has awful sinergy with TR and Stun accuracy isn't too good, maybe Leech Seed or like you say alkinesthetase, trying SubPunch, but recovery from Drain Punch is godly. I don't mind that Bulk Up doesn't work, I want a check to Waters and Scald absober.

The lack of bulk of Breloom... is the price to pay for having one of the best moves in the game(Spore), a good defensive typing, maybe the best offensive typing(Fighting), two amazing abilities and a great Attack stat.

[Lavos Spawn]

Originally Posted by Fat alkinesthetase

specially defensive looms are a tough thing to use these days; bulk up is absolutely dreadful in this meta (my thoughts - lengthy - are here). really the only reason bulk up loom still exists is because it's a holdover from the days of bw1 sand volt-turn, and that was a LONG time ago lol

that being said, being able to switch in on scalds and volt switches for free is pretty sweet, although i hate how much damage the typical ice beam does. loom has such a great typing... if only it had better bulk. i have heard good things about subpunch loom in this meta, as well as an intriguing leech seed+protect set that i saw posted by dragonuser in the mon of the week thread. haven't tried either lately, though.

disagree

actually you get to the good stuff right around the last sentence of your post, the only toxic heal breloom to be using in bw2 is dragonuser's (actually team LA's) protect loom set, it is truly a monster. protect, spore, leech, drain punch. those combined make for a combo rivaling slamrachi in its trollishness. seeing as hardly anyone runs grass types these days, leech seed is ridiculously easy to land, and once you do, let the stalling commence. protect makes for a brilliant combo since you can scout out anything choiced (genesect, specs torn, scarf keldeo, etc.) and make your decision of whether or not to switch based on that instead of blindly guessing as to if they're going to uturn or hurricane or whatever the case may be. this set rocks the metagame. bulk up loom sucks though.

[The Unlucky one]

Not to mention, many people on smogon instantly believe that it is the techniloom set. The surprise factor is also there aside from being a damn effective set. I think Parasect is a better seeder IMO.

[Parappa Da Sneak]

Is it just me or has the meta game slowed down since bw1.
less scarf landorus, latios, more LO. scarf rotom is almost extinct.

[ala]

I think its faster than ever. Scarf Keldeo is everywhere, Scarf Gengar/Latios are occasionally seen because they outspeed the whole tier, and there's a ton of Rock Polish pokemon such as Landorus, Terrakion (who is Scarfed a lot as well), Genesect, Landorus-T, Agility Thundurus-T, etc. There's a lot of pokemon with 300+ speed used as well.

[gengarsnemisis]

Look in BW1, we had all kinds of bulk up users and calm mind, now both of those have died, due to the speed of this meta.

[NoUserName]

Originally Posted by Fat gengarsnemisis

Look in BW1, we had all kinds of bulk up users and calm mind, now both of those have died, due to the speed of this meta.

IIRC in BW1 we didn't have a lot of common pokemon that used BU or CM, only Reuniclus, Latias, Conkeldurr and Virizion were common BU/CM.

[gengarsnemisis]

Originally Posted by Fat NoUserName

IIRC in BW1 we didn't have a lot of common pokemon that used BU or CM, only Reuniclus, Conkeldurr and Virizion were common BU/CM.

Well aslo breloom, and look what happened to them all, reuniclus is better off with tr set now, conk is at the bottom of the barrell of ou, and virizon sucks. My point is that you just need speed in this meta bulk/power and low speed doesnt cut it.

[Turtle Soup]

I agree with that notion that BW2 metagames is yet the fastest. A lot of team run 2 scarfers, almost all offensive pokes run +speed natures most commonly, the successful set up sweepers are the ones with speed boosting abilities, HO teams are common, Weather team are also usually offensive, defensive and stall teams are quite rare.
It's like the whole metagame is at a rave snorting speed.

[NoUserName]

I don't think Breloom BU was too common. Virizion faces an unkind metagame with Gene and Tornadus-T which regenerates the damage of rocks.

Well the low speed... Virizion is very fast, but lacks offensively when not boosted, because that, suffers in the current metagame.

[Dark Fallen Angel]

I disagree with the notion that the metagame has become less speedy, although I must agree that some scarfers simply disappeared. Rotom-W is an example; nowadays it is mostly used as a check to Tornadus-I... Not to mention Landorus-I, which was before commonly used as a revenge killer on sandstorm teams, but nowadays is mostly used as a special attacker. While it's true that special attacking sets can be used on ANY team (unlike physical ones that while stronger than special sets, don't have potential outside sansdstorm teams), the special attacker set is pratically overshadowing the Scarf set even on sandstorm teams.

It's like Pokémon that commonly used Scarf before are now using more sweeping- or tanking-inclined sets. Not that this is a bad thing, of course...

[Lavos Spawn]

Originally Posted by Fat Parappa Da Sneak

Is it just me or has the meta game slowed down since bw1.
less scarf landorus, latios, more LO. scarf rotom is almost extinct.

The metagame has certainly gotten much faster since the release of BW2. Base 101 Speed Scarfer Landorus has been replaced by Base 108 Speed Scarfer Keldeo, now the most common Choice Scarf user (that's right, it's not Genesect), and the metagame has actually seen an increase since BW1 of Scarf Latios, etc., since Scizor and Tyranitar are now much less commonly seen. Sure, it's true that Scarf Rotom-W isn't a thing anymore, but that's just because there are much better Scarf options available (read: Genesect) to check things that Rotom-W used to check back in the days of BW1. The metagame has gotten faster; that's the main reason you even get to use Garchomp in OU now, it's outpaced by all the faster stuff running around BW2.

[StarmanXL]

While I haven't really been playing this metagame for long, I'll agree that using a slow-ish team is kinda...difficult. Even with middling speed it seems hard to keep from something faster finding one opportunity to run you over. Priority is nice but it doesn't always seem to cut it, and on some pokemon like Breloom you have to choose between priority and actually being able to live more than two turns. I'm actually starting to wonder if I should change my SubPunch Breloom to like a Sub+Mach Punch+Lefties one or something.

[Lavos Spawn]

StarmanXL, try this:

Originally Posted by Fat King

Breloom @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Spore
- Focus Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch

Spore something, Focus Punch when they switch to their Breloom check (i.e. Tornadus-T, Latios, etc.), finish off the check with Mach Punch. Bullet Seed for STAB and coverage. This set makes the best use of Breloom's absurdly powerful Technician-boosted Mach Punch while also taking advantage of the fact that nobody prepares for SubPunch Breloom anymore. This hybrid set can really shit on teams. Thanks to King for posting it.

[StarmanXL]

Originally Posted by Fat Lavos Spawn

StarmanXL, try this:



Spore something, Focus Punch when they switch to their Breloom check (i.e. Tornadus-T, Latios, etc.), finish off the check with Mach Punch. Bullet Seed for STAB and coverage. This set makes the best use of Breloom's absurdly powerful Technician-boosted Mach Punch while also taking advantage of the fact that nobody prepares for SubPunch Breloom anymore. This hybrid set can really shit on teams. Thanks to King for posting it.

I'm not sure if people don't prepare for SubPunch breloom anymore, or if there are just naturally a lot of checks to it (Gliscor all day erry day) but I'll give it a shot, see how it works.

I've also not been seeing a whole helluva lotta dragons, with the exception of Latios on rain teams. Is this also indicative of the fast pace of the metagame and RP genesect everywhere?

[Lavos Spawn]

Originally Posted by Fat StarmanXL

I'm not sure if people don't prepare for SubPunch breloom anymore, or if there are just naturally a lot of checks to it (Gliscor all day erry day) but I'll give it a shot, see how it works.

I've also not been seeing a whole helluva lotta dragons, with the exception of Latios on rain teams. Is this also indicative of the fast pace of the metagame and RP genesect everywhere?

Gliscor isn't used much anymore, since the metagame is so fast-paced and offense. It's been replaced by Landorus-T, who also gets the benefit of Intimidate to sponge physical attacks. However, even those aren't very common.

Yeah, Dragons usage is dying down a lot as well. The only two you really see a lot anymore are Latios and Latias, particularly the latter, which is used as a Life Orb Tank set to eat up the all-too-common Rain-boosted Scarf Keldeo Hydro Pumps. Stuff like Dragonite and Salamence aren't too common anymore, because DDnite is easily revenged by any common Scarfer, and ScarfMence is outsped and OHKO'd by Scarf Keldeo's Hidden Power Ice. I think you're right, the drop in Dragons usage is indicative of the fast pace of the metagame.

[StarmanXL]

Originally Posted by Fat Lavos Spawn

Gliscor isn't used much anymore, since the metagame is so fast-paced and offense. It's been replaced by Landorus-T, who also gets the benefit of Intimidate to sponge physical attacks. However, even those aren't very common.

Yeah, Dragons usage is dying down a lot as well. The only two you really see a lot anymore are Latios and Latias, particularly the latter, which is used as a Life Orb Tank set to eat up the all-too-common Rain-boosted Scarf Keldeo Hydro Pumps. Stuff like Dragonite and Salamence aren't too common anymore, because DDnite is easily revenged by any common Scarfer, and ScarfMence is outsped and OHKO'd by Scarf Keldeo's Hidden Power Ice. I think you're right, the drop in Dragons usage is indicative of the fast pace of the metagame.

Really? I tend to see Gliscors like once every 3 matches, but then again I am consistently at the bottom of the ladder. You'd think with the game getting faster you'd see a slight resurgence in Trick Room (not a lot, mind you, just a tiny little, maybe more TR Reuniclus) or at the very least a lot more Twave spam.

[Gary2346]

Originally Posted by Fat gengarsnemisis

Look in BW1, we had all kinds of bulk up users and calm mind, now both of those have died, due to the speed of this meta.

Calm Mind Latias seems to be doing just fine in this meta, however Reuniclus is a little harder off. Genesect has really halted their viability due to his extremely powerful +1 STAB U-Turns, however if Genesect ends up getting banned then Calm Mind Latias, Latios, and Reuniclus will probably see a spike in usage. I use Sub Calm Mind Latias, because it can take a U-Turn if need by, while being able to get a free turn to set up. Reuniclus is just too slow, and can't even out speed Scizor to take it out if it carries HP Fire. Still, Reuniclus is a terror to unprepared teams, especially the TR variant.

[trg]

What's everyone's opinion on choice scarf Ditto in this metagame?

I've currently been working on a bulky offensive team with a lot of success (nearly got into the 1800's the other day) but I almost always get run through by fast set up sweepers like RP Genesect and Landorus once my main counter for them is gone... I was thinking a choice scarf Ditto would really help with those issues.

[SpecsX]

It's ok, but gene is a better revenge killer usually, although against RP gene it might help you.

Hopefully Genesect will be banned soon though.

[StarmanXL]

This might be a bit of a random question, but does Dugtrio do much of anything other than take out Heatran and Ninetales for Genesect? I only ask because, well, the ones I keep running into don't seem to do much outside of that. Granted, this is probably because I don't really get to high-ladder play, but I'm just having trouble seeing what else it does. Same goes for Magnezone, which I tried running on another team but it would up just being more trouble than it was worth.

Do people regularly run trappers for other pokemon in this metagame? Outside of the occaisional BP chain I haven't seen much other uses of them.

[Turtle Soup]

Dugtrio can trap the enemies weather inducer and then proceed to win the weather war in one fell swoop and Magnezone is used in that thing with dragon...the name doesn't come to my mind.

[Deluks917]

StarmanXL: Goth traps tons of problematic pokemon for rain teams (hippowdon, quagsire, blissey, gastrodon, tyranitar, jelicent (this is tricky), chansey, etc).