BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

[c l e a r]

Fasten up, it's not over yet.
Spooky Manor and Sky has just been broken through. There is much, much more that is undiscovered.

So far, I can confirm Pawniard (eww), Pidove, and Ducklett (hooray for not shitty ability). But I am sure there will be much, much more. I am almost convinced that Litwick is hiding in there now.

[Scarfwynaut]

Won't we be able to tell what pokemon are hidden once the rom comes out?

Speaking of shado tag-Chandelure, id rather have manaphy and Darkria in the metagame than that.

[c l e a r]

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

Won't we be able to tell what pokemon are hidden once the rom comes out?

Speaking of shado tag-Chandelure, id rather have manaphy and Darkria in the metagame than that.

This is in the Dream World? The one for BW2 functions differently than the ones we have right now, I think it has different point requirements, even different mini-games on certain old Pokemon. It's not like we can rip the data out of that.

And yes, I would much rather eat grass then to deal with TagLure.

[Hemp Man]

Originally Posted by Fat Immoral Wombat

On a more serious note; have you people found any old or unchanged pokemon that have been doing surprisingly well in this metagame, even moreso than in B/W1? Personally, SubDD Gyarados has been working well for me, setting up on the AmoonBro core and taking advantage of the prominent rain.

So Gyara is still viable even with the metagame changing? I was kinda hoping he's get something noteworthy in B&W2, as he hasn't changed that much since 4th Gen.

[Arcticblast]

Gyarados has had everything it needed to succeed for quite a while - it's been OU since at least the beginning of GenIV.

[Jukain]

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

Won't we be able to tell what pokemon are hidden once the rom comes out?

Speaking of shado tag-Chandelure, id rather have manaphy and Darkria in the metagame than that.

If ST Chandelure was in the metagame you could practically merge DW OU and OU. I mean other than Lightningrod Zapdos and a whole lot of bans that's the only thing seperating the tiers.

[Vemane]

I feel, from a dw perspective, the only thing that should be banned at this point is chandy

It does NOTHING good for the meta, it destroys more than one playstyle, etc.

This is all when it is released that is, but people shouldn't need to limit themselves due to one poke

Wobb... eh. just ko it, it isn't as great anymore

Mag, only affects steels

Dug, super weak and frail and only affects grounded

Chandy, that 145 spatt and nice coverage as well as the ability to trap every poke is too much

[deluge]

It's interesting that everything with Shadow Tag is pursuit weak.

[G-Von]

I'm sure DW OU won't be around much longer. Once more and more DW abilities get released, I am sure it will be eliminated. What would even be the point of having it anymore?

[Smaug]

That's the whole point of DW OU. It's basically a "future" OU. Once everything is released, it probably will be removed.

EDIT: wow, I just said almost the exact same thing as you.

[Matthew]

It also helped us understand threats better, like the disappointing Chandelure

[NixHex]

Honestly I'd say Ditto and Serperior were WAY more "disappointing" than Chandelure. Sure, the whole Sub+CM domination was pretty rare, but can you honestly say that Scarf Chandelure didn't do its job extremely well?

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

Won't we be able to tell what pokemon are hidden once the rom comes out?

The rom is already out, and that doesn't really have anything to do with it. We only knew that in BW1, no Unova DW mons would be released bar Musharna and lolZen Darmanitan via the entralink specifically because there were no overworld sprites of Unova mons.

[forestflamerunner]

@ Mathew

I am just curious as to why you felt chandy was underwhelming. It seems like a lot of the time it will be able to take out any one of your pokes regardless of what you do. I am not saying that there arent ways to overcome chandelure, but i have never played dw and therefore i am not familiar with any strategies that are known/available. I would really appreciate your insight on the matter. Thanks

[Uzumaki Gaara]

Originally Posted by Fat Matthew

It also helped us understand threats better, like the disappointing Chandelure

Judging by its usuage, I'm curious as why you said Chandelure is dissapointing

I believe the Dream World & Wifi metagame are different as there are much much lesser players on the Dream World metagame thus therefore lead to a different gameplan/style. Correct me if i am wrong.

[Matthew]

Originally Posted by Fat forestflamerunner

@ Mathew

I am just curious as to why you felt chandy was underwhelming. It seems like a lot of the time it will be able to take out any one of your pokes regardless of what you do. I am not saying that there arent ways to overcome chandelure, but i have never played dw and therefore i am not familiar with any strategies that are known/available. I would really appreciate your insight on the matter. Thanks

chandelure is disappointing, I want to say, is when Dream World became more and more recognized is that it evolved past Chandelure. When building a team I rarely consider it to be a top-tier threat when I look at it. Sure, it can come in on Ferrothorn or Blissey and set up. But when you're liable to Spikes and Stealth Rock, both of which are extremely easy to set down in this metagame, your use is limited. It's Speed stat is lackluster as are its defenses. For example an Adamant 252 LO Techniloom has a pretty good chance to OHKO Chandelure with Stealth Rock in play. If it isn't Choice Scarf and it hopes to Sub down then that play is completely neutralized. If it is Choice Scarf then it can't switch in again. Albeit that's one example. However I don't feel that removing stall as a play style is honestly a bad thing. That is also to say that you think that just because Chandelure can trap Blissey it's instant GG. Far from the truth with pokemon like Tentacruel and Heatran playing valuable roles on stall teams.

It is true stall is probably the least played style in Dream World, however that remains true in OU as well. If I were to ask "what kills stall in OU and let's remove it no matter what," I'm sure there would be an outcry saying, "well that pokemon isn't broken!" Chandelure is super good, but instantly having 145 Special Attack and Shadow Tag does not make a broken pokemon. Especially not with Team Preview.

Originally Posted by Fat NixHex

Honestly I'd say Ditto and Serperior were WAY more "disappointing" than Chandelure. Sure, the whole Sub+CM domination was pretty rare, but can you honestly say that Scarf Chandelure didn't do its job extremely well?


The rom is already out, and that doesn't really have anything to do with it. We only knew that in BW1, no Unova DW mons would be released bar Musharna and lolZen Darmanitan via the entralink specifically because there were no overworld sprites of Unova mons.

HEY! Serperior is amazing and don't you forget it. I also never said that Scarf Chandelure isn't good at what it does (KO one pokemon, lose Chandelure), but it is far from as broken as we are lead to believe.

edit:
if you build a team that is entirely weak to Ghost- and Fire-typing you deserve to lose.

Originally Posted by Fat Uzumaki Gaara

Judging by its usuage, I'm curious as why you said Chandelure is dissapointing

I believe the Dream World & Wifi metagame are different as there are much much lesser players on the Dream World metagame thus therefore lead to a different gameplan/style. Correct me if i am wrong.

Usage doesn't relate to brokeness. Scizor has been #1 in two gens so far (4th and 5th), and in no way is it broken. It simply fills a team slot that you think is valuable. However, as shown by the April 1337 stats, Chandelure is leagues below it is in the normal stats. If I were to try to make a comparison to OU -- Landorus was a lot higher in 1337 stats than normal. So better players know Landorus is good, while better players in DW know Chandelure isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[superbadd]

I think that's what's great about DW OU. Instead of banning hyped up mons we actually got to see how they are and have well informed experience using them/playing against them. I do however disagree about chandelure while it may not be as good as people thought it would be it's still an excellent revenge killer and now with trick it'll be a little bit better. Oh and if you guys want a chandelure counter that isn't ttar look no further than our favorite morbidly obese mon, snorlax! :D

[RainbowCrash]

guys just wondering saw a post on reddit saying imposter ditto s availible in black and white 2

http://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comm...n_the_hallows/

[Marzbar]

I have some random thoughts, just to mix the conversation up.

Would Super Fang be effective at all on a Scrafty set?

And has anyone experimented with Pain Split or Restalk Cofagrigus?

[RainbowCrash]

Originally Posted by Fat Marzbar

I have some random thoughts, just to mix the conversation up.

Would Super Fang be effective at all on a Scrafty set?

And has anyone experimented with Pain Split or Restalk Cofagrigus?

In RU it is very effective with a low hp stat for the pain split set and a high one for rest talk
OU i tried it for maybe 3-4 matches so not much but it just couldn't hold up against offensive rain.
Physically Defensive its out classed by Skarm and Gliscor in my opinion.Skarm and Gliscor has a More reliable form of recovery
Special Just cant take hits from rain boosted pokes

[GoliathGarchomp]

Iv had a few battles with Cofagrigus. I can see it working in OU as a spin blocker but Jellicent does that job better usually.
However like RainbowCash said it just cant hold up to rain offense. I can definly see it doing well in UU though, will be a great Heracross counter although Chandelure will give it some trouble if it remains in UU

[Griff]

I don't play DW ou but I think a lot of things are going to get fu i mean messed up by ST Chandelure.

[Raikaria]

Serebii has updated with the fact that Imposter Ditto is in the Hidden Hollow at Giant Chasm.

Prepare for the biggest useage leap ever.

[SJCrew]

If you were to ask me what I think are among the most important new changes of BW2, I would suggest you folk keep a close eye on everything that newly received Superpower. It seems that most the Pokemon that newly learn it in BW2 don't seem to have a weaker equivalent for some reason, so they function almost completely differently from what they used to. Switching into Hydreigon and Haxorus was by no means easy before, but now, it's absolutely impossible. Good luck trying to keep a team structure up with those two around.

[Masttershake]

Originally Posted by Fat SJCrew

If you were to ask me what I think are among the most important new changes of BW2, I would suggest you folk keep a close eye on everything that newly received Superpower. It seems that most the Pokemon that newly learn it in BW2 don't seem to have a weaker equivalent for some reason, so they function almost completely differently from what they used to. Switching into Hydreigon and Haxorus was by no means easy before, but now, it's absolutely impossible. Good luck trying to keep a team structure up with those two around.

Techloom murder Hydra so I doubt it will see much usage.

[alphatron]

Techloom murders Tyranitar so I doubt it will see much usage. Landorus murders heatran, thundurus and rotom murder gyarados, so I doubt, etc.

At least skarmory remains a good counter to haxorus. Can't say the same for hydriegon though.