BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

[SuperCharizardMaster]

Originally Posted by Fat alphatron

Technically, dropping down the old ubers would give sun garchomp and blaziken back.

If that happened I would be happyier then a kid on christmas who got everything on his list.

[alexwolf]

Originally Posted by Fat Groombridge

Sarcasm, homeboy. This isn't particularly simple to set up, but it is immensely powerful once it has a clear run. Last Resort knocks 36-45% off 0/0 TTar, but who would switch a TTar into Meloetta-P anyway? Point is, this thing is tremendously fun to use. Slam it on a team with Scarftar and Hydreigon, and go nuts. Nobody expects Mel-P to use its Normal STAB, so you end up 2HKOing Gliscors left and right.



And SD Haxorus also requires a free turn to set up! The difference I guess is that Relic Song (Meloetta's setup move) has a 20% chance of inflicting sleep. When that happens, it's like getting a kill for free. Just gotta kill those Ghosts, Rocks and Steels. Also Hippowdon, Suicune and any Intimidaters. Mamo too, to be safe. And Azumarill. SORTED

Haxorus needs ONLY 1 turn, not having the most difficult pokes to kill removed from the game, AND 1 free turn...

[Ricky Horror]

Starting to hate Amoonguss paired up with Tyranitar. lol Tornadus has a hard time with two,especially since FOCUS BLAST misses every switch into T-Tar ftw. People are already getting creative with this sudden change.

[Danger Mouse]

Originally Posted by Fat alexwolf

Haxorus needs ONLY 1 turn, not having the most difficult pokes to kill removed from the game AND 1 free turn...

...it also needs anything faster than it removed. hax isn't exactly bulky, and its base speed screams 'please revenge kill me!'

[Lavos Spawn]

Originally Posted by Fat Ricky Horror

Starting to hate Amoonguss paired up with Tyranitar. lol Tornadus has a hard time with two,especially since FOCUS BLAST misses every switch into T-Tar ftw. People are already getting creative with this sudden change.

I run Superpower Tornadus-T for that very reason. Give it a shot.

[Ricky Horror]

Originally Posted by Fat Lavos Spawn

I run Superpower Tornadus-T for that very reason. Give it a shot.

I've thought of it since Tornadus is mostly hit and run more so now with regenerator, but to hell with it I'll give it a go. Didn't want to run a -nature in defenses or have to split some Evs put its a most. Thanks ^^

[alexwolf]

Originally Posted by Fat Danger Mouse

...it also needs anything faster than it removed. hax isn't exactly bulky, and its base speed screams 'please revenge kill me!'

And Meloetta faces mostly the same problem because scarfers are everywhere...

[Tobes]

I've been playing around with rain offense so far, and it's quite good. No surprises there. I've always felt that Scarf Politoed is the best version in "fast" metas, and so far I don't think I'm wrong about this meta. Unlike Excadrill meta, though, you can't get really get away with Modest anymore, as you now need to be able to outspeed Tornadus-T, necessitating Timid. Hydro Pump seems to be a necessity now for nailing the two Therians. Its accuracy, of course, is as frustrating as ever, but it's a necessary risk to take in this metagame.

The two Therians continue to assert themselves as powerhouses of the metagame. They seem to be everywhere on the ladder, but maybe that will die a little bit along with the new Pokemon smell. Personally I think they're good enough to maintain this amount of usage for a while. Taunt Tornadus-T is great for crippling Ferrothorn and the like. At the moment I'm not keen on trying Superpower on it since I value its natural bulk, and Focus Blast generally does the job it needs to. (...usually). Thundurus-T is running nicely as a Choice Scarf user, though I can certainly see Agility and Nasty Plot versions being extremely deadly. As a Scarfer, Thundurus-T is akin to Choice Scarf Landorus-Incarnate on sand teams, mostly due to their mirror base Speed. I'm debating dropping Volt Switch for U-turn. The STAB boost is starting to be outweighed by the prospect of being able to use a switching move without the risk of giving opposing Thundurus-T a free 25% recovery, which is not pleasant.

After some observation, I've noted that Choice Scarf Terrakion seems like a great meta pick at the moment. It's faster than the currently common Choice Scarf users (Thundurus-T), outspeeds Modest Venusaur in sun, and has great STAB coverage. It can even use Stealth Rock if the rest of your team has no available slots (not that I'm recommending slapping Stealth Rock on a Choiced Pokemon, but it should work if you're desperate and it's not like Terrakion desperately needs anything outside of Close Combat / Stone Edge / Earthquake.)

EDIT: Ok, not as good of a meta pick as before with Techniloom released, but still good.

Also Last Resort gimmicks, while amusing, are inherently ass.

[bluemon]

Technician Breloom is released.

Another reason to retest those suspects, IMO.

Techniloom is going to be scary...

[SuperHydreigon1996]

While Techinician will be a godsend for Breloom, Breloom will still have the same problems it had before, such as low speed and its relative frailty. Still, Techniloom will be a bit scary.

I honestly think they should retest Garchomp and Excadrill. Rain will be OP thanks to Keldeo, and the other weathers don't have much to make them as powerful as rain at the moment. Sun only got Roost Volcarona and Giga Drain Venusaur, and I feel like that's still not enough to combat Rain. In fact, I've been running my own rain team.

Edit: Right. STAB Technician Mach Punch will help offset its frailty. I might use Breloon since I'll be stuffed for team slots for my rain team.

[Danger Mouse]

Originally Posted by Fat SuperHydreigon1996

While Techinician will be a godsend for Breloom, Breloom will still have the same problems it had before, such as low speed and its relative frailty. Still, Techniloom will be a bit scary.

I honestly think they should retest Garchomp and Excadrill. Rain will be OP thanks to Keldeo, and the other weathers don't have much to make them as powerful as rain at the moment. Sun only got Roost Volcarona and Giga Drain Venusaur, and I feel like that's still not enough to combat Rain. In fact, I've been running my own rain team.

With Techniloom, you get the power of Scizor's bullet punch but with much better coverage, along with the advantage of a guaranteed status against a switch-in. It's frailty isn't going to matter much when it has a fantastic priority attack and can simply status a counter.

[SlimMan]

my thoughts on bringing some suspects back

---

Tbh, I don't think we should re-test anything.

I originally really wanted to re-test Excadrill. Techniloom, which is now released, just NOMS it, and Gliscor/Hippowdon are still there, and iirc Landorus-T counters it. But then I realized it gets Iron Head. Suddenly, Landorus-T isn't even a check, and Gliscor is only a check. If it didn't get Iron Head, I would bring it back in a heartbeat, but I don't think so anymore.

Deoxys-S: A bunch of new offensive threats just entered the metagame, so let's bring back the best offensive Spiker/Screener. That way, Keldeo and Tornadus-T and whatnot can fuck you up even MORE. >__>

Garchomp I am against bringing back for one reason. You can check Keldeo, and you can check Thundurus-T, and you can counter things, and whatever. But as long as Sand is up, Garchomp is un-checkable. Because you could always miss. It means that if you are not running Rain/Sun/Hail, then your team is automatically unable to check Garchomp, regardless of what Scarfers or Skarmory or whatever that you have. That just does not seem healthy for the metagame to me. It's not that Garchomp is significantly stronger than the rest of the metagame, it's that there is NO way to guarantee his demise in Sand.

Manaphy and Drizzle/SwiftSwim..... Well, Rain just got a huge boost in the form of the Therians and Keldeo. Why not bring back these guys to juice Rain up even more? I'm sorry, but no. I don't think anyone could think this one should be brought back.

Blaziken is an interesting case, but nothing really changed that would affect him. All the new Pokemon get OHKO'ed by a +2 HJK, and all the new Pokemon get out-sped after one Speed Boost. It's not that Blaziken isn't cool and all, but he's basically the same now as he was back then. And what he was back then, was broken.

If you wanna bring back any of the Round 1 shit, then you are a moron and shouldn't have a say. Skymin, Deoxys-N/A, and Moody don't belong in OU. I don't wanna just blatantly dismiss stuff, but this is obvious.

Last but not least, Thundurus. I wouldn't mind re-testing him, because there is stuff like Tornadus-T now, and I thought he was borderline to begin with. I could live with Thundurus coming down. But in my opinion, he's in the same boat as Blaziken, where the metagame, as it pertains to him, isn't different enough to warrant bringing him down.

Also, I would just like to state that Meloetta is officially my favorite addition to the metagame. I freaking love that little bundle of cuteness.

[Darkhuaza517]

Techniloom basically has Scizor's Bullet Punch, but with a far better typing. Don't forget about Bullet Seed either, since three hits from Techniloom's Bullet Seed already outdamage Seed Bomb.

In other words, despite its shortcomings, Breloom will be really terrifying.

[Scarfwynaut]

I pretty much agree with SlimMan. Yeah I think everyone is forgetting Excadrill now has iron head, I don't think its wise to bring it don't just because Breloom can now beat it. Doexys-S would be more of a pain too. I honestly wouldn't mind a retest of Thundurus and Garchomp, heck we have a stronger Thundurus in the meta right now, I can live with Garchomp hax to. Im kinda split on Blaziken though, it might actually not be that bad with all the increased rain and slowbro in this meta, but then again if was banned in dream world for Christs sake. Past that though, fuck no, no Skymin, Manaphy, Doexy-N, and Darkria for the love of God.

[Jukain]

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

I pretty much agree with SlimMan. Yeah I think everyone is forgetting Excadrill now has iron head, I don't think its wise to bring it don't just because Breloom can now beat it. Doexys-S would be more of a pain too. I honestly wouldn't mind a retest of Thundurus and Garchomp, heck we have a stronger Thundurus in the meta right now, I can live with Garchomp hax to. Im kinda split on Blaziken though, it might actually not be that bad with all the increased rain and slowbro in this meta, but then again if was banned in dream world for Christs sake. Past that though, fuck no, no Skymin, Manaphy, Doexy-N, and Darkria for the love of God.

Where does Iron Head fit? SD/EQ/Rock Slide/Rapid Spin or Shadow Claw or Return or Iron Head? There isn't that much space, EQ, SD, Rock Slide, and Rapid Spin are indispensable. Shadow Claw/Return are already a hard thing to justify, but 30% flinch hax for no additional coverage? I wouldn't use it tbh. I support the retesting of Excadrill/Garchomp/Thundurus, though everything else banned should stay gone.

Just my two cents.

[bluemon]

Not many people use rapid spin on their excadrill.

SD/EQ/rock slide/iron head

Will be the standard

[Scarfwynaut]

swords dance / earhquake / iron head / rock slide

Remember that iron head is STAB, meaning it pretty much instantly is better than return, it allows it to basically beat Gliscor and at the time give the beat down to grass types that once hoped it didn't have x-scissor and instead rapid spin or return. Rapid spin was just for utility since you would only use return or x-scissor maybe once every 10 battles. The only thing I can think of that would love if Excadrill gave up x-scissor or return would be Bronzong lol.

Edit: I would also like to point out that excadrill screws up the speed tiers, making other threats harder to check, which if you allow those same threats in at the time time, its kinda counterproductive and just dangerous.

[ace combat]

HOLY SHIT BRELOOM IS REALEASED
http://www.serebii.net/black2white2/hiddenhollow.shtml

[Ninja_13]

Originally Posted by Fat SlimMan

Garchomp I am against bringing back for one reason. You can check Keldeo, and you can check Thundurus-T, and you can counter things, and whatever. But as long as Sand is up, Garchomp is un-checkable. Because you could always miss. It means that if you are not running Rain/Sun/Hail, then your team is automatically unable to check Garchomp, regardless of what Scarfers or Skarmory or whatever that you have. That just does not seem healthy for the metagame to me. It's not that Garchomp is significantly stronger than the rest of the metagame, it's that there is NO way to guarantee his demise in Sand.

Originally Posted by Fat Flare Blitzle

Rough Skin Gible is also in the Cold Cave.

Originally Posted by Fat Move Tutors

Garchomp: Aqua Tail, Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Dual Chop, Earth Power, Iron Head, Iron Tail, Outrage, Sleep Talk, Snore, Stealth Rock

Can we please just hit Sand Veil already?

[Matthew]

Originally Posted by Fat SuperHydreigon1996

While Techinician will be a godsend for Breloom, Breloom will still have the same problems it had before, such as low speed and its relative frailty. Still, Techniloom will be a bit scary.

I honestly think they should retest Garchomp and Excadrill. Rain will be OP thanks to Keldeo, and the other weathers don't have much to make them as powerful as rain at the moment. Sun only got Roost Volcarona and Giga Drain Venusaur, and I feel like that's still not enough to combat Rain. In fact, I've been running my own rain team.

Edit: Right. STAB Technician Mach Punch will help offset its frailty. I might use Breloon since I'll be stuffed for team slots for my rain team.

If you've ever played any Dream World matches I can promise to you that I think we all agree Techniloom is the most terrifying creature in existence.

[SlimMan]

@pokemon0078: I go ninja'ed by a lot, but basically what bluemon and Scarfwynaut said. SD/EQ/Rock Slide/Iron Head. You don't need anything else.

Originally Posted by Fat Ninja_13

Can we please just hit Sand Veil already?

Oh gosh not this request again.

Can someone link Ninja_13 to Round 4 of OU's Suspect Tests? It has like 30 pages explaining why Smogon doesn't do Pokemon+Ability bans.

[ThePillsburyDoughBoy]

Calling it now that Breloom doesn't get Spore! Shroomish is the one that learns Spore and releasing only Breloom seems fishy.

[NoUserName]

Originally Posted by Fat ThePillsburyDoughBoy

Calling it now that Breloom doesn't get Spore! Shroomish is the one that learns Spore and releasing only Breloom seems fishy.

If in-game DW ability Breloom is not only male, which I doubt a lot, this is indiferent.

[NatGeo]

You can find Breloom in Hidden Hollow (which is ingame), so you can have Spore on Techniloom.

That said I really have to agree with Genny here, Techniloom is probably one of the most terrifying things you can face (if you can put something to sleep, its pretty much GG).

[Silent Storm]

Originally Posted by Fat ThePillsburyDoughBoy

Calling it now that Breloom doesn't get Spore! Shroomish is the one that learns Spore and releasing only Breloom seems fishy.

Yeah.....did you really mean that or are you just messing around?

The DW Breloom found was female, so it can learn spore when you breed it. .-.