Underrated but effective sets in the BW2 overused metagame

[ra02]

Originally Posted by Fat superstar

Dragon Dance Latios
Latios @Life Orb/Leftovers
252 SpAtt/ 252 Spe
Hasty Nature (+Spe, -Def)
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake/Psyshock
-Dragon Pulse
-Psyshock/Surf/Thunder(bolt)/HP Fire/Recover

Most people rely on one of four things to beat Latios: Mamoswine, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and faster pokemon like Scarf Genesect, Terrakion, and Tornadus-T

This set beats all of these Pokemon. With the boost, you OHKO Jirachi with Earthquake, which ALWAYS stays in to take it. You are faster than Genesect, and can KO with rain boosted Surf or HP Fire. Terrakion falls to Psyshock. Tornadus-T loses to Dragon Pulse, and most other Pokemon are murdered by the power of a LO Dragon Pulse. All and all, a great set, which can usually net a few surprise KOs a match.

Can Latias run this set? If yes, how effective would itt be?

[alexwolf]

Here is a Pokemon i fell in love with the last few days:



Slowking @ Lefties
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD / 4 Spe
Ability: Regenerator
Nature: Calm
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Thunder Wave
- Slack Off

Slowking is the best Keldeo counter in existence and the EVs are meant to reflect this. They allow Slowking to tank 2 Specs Hydro Pump in rain from Keldeo after SR, while also enabling it to survive two Hurricane from LO Torn-T after SR 90% of the time. Rest are dumped to Def to take random physical attacks better and 4 Spe EVs are speed creep for Amoonguss. Scald is obvious, Psyshock is to beat Keldeo mainly, and T-Wave to cripple all the special attackers that you wall. Slowking also handles most rain threats like a boss, namely Toxic-less Politoed, Starmie (you can easily use Slowking as a pivot to find out its set and then act accordingly, as even a LO Thunder does 60% tops), Latios, Rotom-W, and Keldeo and Torn-T, which were already mentioned. In addition, Slowking is a fantastic pivot against sun teams, and shields most of my bulky offensive teams from the beast that is called Keldeo, and rain and sun teams in general, without costing me a ton of momentum, unlike most pure walls. CBTar can be a problem from time to time so make sure you pack a secondary Keldeo check and/or some strong anti-Ttar measures such as Dugtrio or pokes that can set-up on a Pursuit locked Ttar. Regenerator users are awesome in general for bulky offensive teams (all Amoonguss users should know what i mean) as the ability to check so much stuff without the need to waste time to heal while also spreading status (burn, paralyze, or sleep) is a godsend, and Slowking is the best of the Slow family atm because of the popularity of rain offense teams.

Good partners for Slowking are those that can handle strong physical hits and the Grass and Electric types that scare Slowking. Offensive Celebi with HP Fire is awesome to deal with Ferro, Breloom and stuff, while also providing a secondary Keldeo check that is untrappable by CBTar. Physically defensive Hippo is awesome too, as it handles most physical attackers with ease, including the threatening Terrakion, Salamence, and Dragonite.

[MetaGross66]

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Atk / 6 Spd
Quiet Nature
- Draco Meteor
- ExtremeSpeed
- Superpower
- Fire Blast
Forget Kyurem-B. This is the premier wall breaker/lead of BW2 OU. While he may not match Kyurem's raw power, he comfortably makes up for it with multiscale and unpredictability. I'll usually lead with this guy and start the match 6-5. He's so insanely cost effective in a metagame where number advantage can make a huge difference, especially if you just lost a key pokemon so early. Superpower just made him 10x cooler, too. He now destroys tyranitar and more importantly, Blissey and Chansey. Multiscale is also so useful as an initial buffer against most attacks. For example, he comfortably takes Garchomp's Outrage and Terrakion's Stone Edge while OHKOing both. Moreover, Extremespeed lets you get some good damage in after a kill. idk if the speed would help, but vs bulky toed and other 176 benchmarkers, you'd be better off lowering Dragonite's speed one point...I think. Ya know, to avoid the KO from ice beam and 2KO with DM+Extremespeed, but like I said idk, this is just theory. Anyway, tldr, use him. He's the perfect tool.

[Remedy]

Your set seems amazing Metagross, but the Life Orb annoys me so much.
Against a Lead here to set Hazards, like Deoxys-D, you kill him okay, but lost your scale for nothing, and he did put hazards anyway.
Maybe a set with a gem, like a Draco Gem? would have the same punch, but would make a better use of Life Orb?

[dragonuser]

Originally Posted by Fat ra02

Can Latias run this set? If yes, how effective would itt be?

To answer this question, yes Dragon Dance Latios is viable. It is mainly viable due to the surprise the set gets, but it can be pretty effective if correctly used. Earthquake Latios is always really interesting to use as you can easily take out some of your biggest counters (Heatran and Sp Def Jirachi).

[ballabrown24]

Well technically, the question was whether or not Latias can run that set effectively, and the answer is no, simply because of the fact that Latias cannot learn dragon dance.

edit: well I mean, he did explicitly put Latias in his question so I'm basing it off of that, not an interpreted typo. And I just don't see why a person would ask how effective a set is when he quoted a post testifying for the set. Regardless though, eo ut mortus sucks.

[dragonuser]

I believe that he was asking about Latios (was the set he quoted), and Latios can in fact learn Dragon Dance. And also Dragon Dance Latios is by far not its best set, but it does have merit nonetheless.

edit: didn't see that, sorry. But yea latias can't learn dragon dance

[nygerman]

Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 236 HP / 100 SAtk / 172 Spd
Quiet Nature
- Pursuit
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower

My standard T tar that I use on my sand teams. Mainly use thunderwave and pursuit. No need for stealth rocks since most t tars don't get a second turn.

[ala]

Is the extra damage really noticeable? I mean you say you use Pursuit or Thunderwave the most and of course T-wave doesn't get boosted. Pursuit tends to KO what it needs to since the Psychics/Ghosts Tyranitar is sent out for are pretty frail. I can't help thinking that you would be better off with Chople Berry or Leftovers.

[Turtle Soup]

Why don't Tyranitars get a second turn? He really isn't a suicide lead. What's the point of bringing weather if you're gonna sack it on the first turn? Also agree with ala on why bring Expert Belt if you're not going to use the coverage moves that would benefit from it?

[Onicon]

I can imagine want this one does: Forcing your opponent to switch into something faster while it use T-Wave. If you ask me I'd rather predict and have another coverage move. Nevertheless ..

Gliscor won't survive Ice Beam no matter of the investment. The chance to OHKO 252/252+ Dragonite is rather slim without the investment - should you ever face one. Salamence, Landorus and Garchomp all die after Ice Beam.
For Naive Tornadus-T you need 60 EVs to OHKO it after SR, 140 EVs to get it over 80% for neutral. Thundurus-T is immune to Thunder Wave, but should you get the prediction right, you need 72 EVs to kill it with Ice Beam after SR.
Flamethrower OHKOs Forretress, Genesects and Scizors. Tyranitar needs 240 EVs to OHKO Skarmory after SR with Flamethrower, otherwise it's get one more layer of entry hazards down (Fire Blast OHKOs physical Skarmory without EVs). Ferrothorn survives two Flamethrowers (three in Rain) and no amount of EVs won't change that (compare Fire Blast: OHKOs after SR, 0 EVs).

Conclusion: Expert Belt is fair deal as long as you are good at predicting and keep SR on their field. I don't think you need more than 72 in SAtk with a Quiet nature. Fire Blast is recommended over Flamethrower when you want to OHKO Ferrothorn and Skarmory (the speed is apparently tailored to outspeed it). Also, we might try a more specially defensive approach, since the physically resistances are rather neglectable: with Sassy / 176 HP / 168 SAtk / 164 Spe we can accomplish the same things. When we joss T-Wave for Superpower to OHKO Tyranitars and Terrakions upon switch-ins, use the aforementioned spread with Brave nature. And there is the pure Expert Belt set:


Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 176 HP / 168 SAtk / 164 Spe
Brave Nature
- Pursuit
- SuperPower
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam

Needs lots of prediction to excel.

[StarmanXL]

Alex, I've been using Slowking a lot--not those exact EVs though. I've been using 252 HP/200 DEF/56 SpDef--and like you said it's pretty good for rain offensive teams, but I'm wondering if it's that good a pivot on sun teams. It's always dangerous to switch in on Venusaur, Ninetales, or Volcarona because Solarbeam and Bug Buzz hurt like a bitch, but maybe I'm just doing it wrong, I'm not sure. Toxic also seems to be increasingly common so there's that.

About the EVs, is there anything in particular that you lose out on using 60 Def as opposed to 200 Def that you've found?

[Onicon]

The Slowking with 60 Def will be 2HKOed by scarf Garchomp's Earthquake after SR, while the 200 Def one will get out in a relatively good shape. I can't think of anything otherwise. As a bulky water you will switch in most of the time while most of the moves trown at you are special and will 2HKO you anyway.

[StarmanXL]

Originally Posted by Fat Onicon

The Slowking with 60 Def will be 2HKOed by scarf Garchomp's Earthquake after SR, while the 200 Def one will get out in a relatively good shape. I can't think of anything otherwise. As a bulky water you will switch in most of the time while most of the moves trown at you are special and will 2HKO you anyway.

You don't see Garchomp around too often, though, since it gets outsped and revenged by a lot of things, notably all the scarfers and Genesect and stuff. Still, that's something to consider.

[youngjake93]

Originally Posted by Fat StarmanXL

You don't see Garchomp around too often, though, since it gets outsped and revenged by a lot of things, notably all the scarfers and Genesect and stuff. Still, that's something to consider.

He said Scarf Garchomp which outspeeds Genesect and most scarfers.

[Donald522]

I know I've posted this set before, but I love it.

[Tabuu]

This Pokemon is something that has worked pretty well for me :)
Reuniclus@Life Orb
Quiet Nature
192 HP/64 Def/252 SpA
~Trick Room/Psyshock/Focus Blast/HP Fire

In a metagame where it's all about HO and who outspeeds what, Reuniclus can work to some success with this set. Under TR, its the fastest sweeper in existence. To boot, it has a positive nature along with Life Orb and Max investments. Psyshock is STAB and allows it to smash the ever-so infamous Terrakion along with Keldeo, Breloom and Gengar. Pshock also by passes Blissey, though Chansey will be able to stay in. Focus Blast provides "perfect" coverage hitting Heatran, Hydreigon, Ferrothorn, Mamoswine, Ttar and so forth. HP Fire is the real surprise though. It has gotten me a lotta kills. Genesects and Scizors love walkin' in thinking they can have a field day...until they're burnt to crispy ashes by HP Fire.

Obviously this set struggles against a handful of Pokemon. Jellicent and Psychics can handle Reuniclus. Ttar can be introduced into the equation. Ttar is a great partner bc it OHKOs all of the pesky mons that bother Reuniclus. Ttar also can provide Rocks facilitating his Sweeps. And finally CB ttars can smash SpDef Jirachis with ease 2HKOing them with Crunch while Iron Head will 3-5HKO.

[alexwolf]

Slowking is an exellent switch in against Heatran, Ninetales, Latias, Scarf Victini, and Latios, all Pokemon that are very common in sun teams. In fact Slowking can switch easily against any Ninetales and then either proceed to paralyze something, or burn anything immune to T-Wave with a Scald on the switch (Xatu, Garchomp etc), making Ninetales a liability for the sun team. Even if the foe stays for zero turns in with Ninetales and goes to Venusaur predicting your switch-in, Slowking handles any sun poke 1 on 1, as it can take easily a Grass attack from them and render them useless with T-Wave.

Also why would anyone bring Slowking against Garchomp? This doesn't make sense at all. Slowking is a special wall.

Finally, no i don't know if you lose on walling any notable threat with only 60 Def EVs, but i know that Slowking needs a lot of SpD to do its job.

[StarmanXL]

Slowking doesn't take SOlarbeam from Venusaur well at all:

252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Slowking: 330-390 (83.75 - 98.98%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Slowking: 205-244 (52.03 - 61.92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

So I'd keep Slowking away from it. Fortunately it takes Solarbeam from Ninetales better:

252+ SpA Ninetales SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Slowking: 148-176 (37.56 - 44.67%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Meaning you can more than likely get the TWave. I'd look out for Volcarona though, since they'll shit on you no matter what, unless they're the bulky QD variants, and I dunno how often those are run.

[jle1076]

Venusaur doesn't run solarbeam that often due to weather wars. It ops for giga drain to heal life orb recoil or energy ball

[Chimpakt]

Originally Posted by Fat MetaGross66

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Atk / 6 Spd
Quiet Nature
- Draco Meteor
- ExtremeSpeed
- Superpower
- Fire Blast
Forget Kyurem-B. This is the premier wall breaker/lead of BW2 OU. While he may not match Kyurem's raw power, he comfortably makes up for it with multiscale and unpredictability. I'll usually lead with this guy and start the match 6-5. He's so insanely cost effective in a metagame where number advantage can make a huge difference, especially if you just lost a key pokemon so early. Superpower just made him 10x cooler, too. He now destroys tyranitar and more importantly, Blissey and Chansey. Multiscale is also so useful as an initial buffer against most attacks. For example, he comfortably takes Garchomp's Outrage and Terrakion's Stone Edge while OHKOing both. Moreover, Extremespeed lets you get some good damage in after a kill. idk if the speed would help, but vs bulky toed and other 176 benchmarkers, you'd be better off lowering Dragonite's speed one point...I think. Ya know, to avoid the KO from ice beam and 2KO with DM+Extremespeed, but like I said idk, this is just theory. Anyway, tldr, use him. He's the perfect tool.

This set is really fun to use. I personally use Dragon Gem too boost up the Draco Meteor and ensure that I retain multiscale against slower leads or if you OHKO something.

[King]

Originally Posted by Fat jle1076

Venusaur doesn't run solarbeam that often due to weather wars. It ops for giga drain to heal life orb recoil or energy ball

Originally Posted by Fat Lavos Spawn

praise is a pretty strong word...

Heh.

Thanks for the good comments. I just hope this set doesn't get overlooked

[CTC]

Originally Posted by Fat Trinitrotoluene

Gengar @ Focus Sash | Levitate
Timid | 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe | 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
Substitute | Shadow Ball | Hidden Power Fire | Destiny Bond

To quote CTC, "Starmie is pretty much the best deogar counter barring scarfgar." This set turns that statement over on its head. With a Focus Sash, Gengar can beat Starmie, and by extension, nearly every common spinner with this set. Starmie? Shadow Ball OHKOes all Starmie variants after Stealth Rock damage. Forretress? OHKOed outside of the rain by Hidden Power Fire, and 2HKOed in the rain. Donphan? 2HKOed by Shadow Ball. Tentacruel is the only common spinner in OU that isn't 2HKOed by Shadow Ball or Hidden Power Fire, but it's susceptible to Destiny Bond. It's not too specialized, seeing that this set can act as a lure for Scizor and Rock Polish Genesect, OHKOing the two of them outside of rain. It can also serve as an equalizer, thanks to Destiny Bond and its incredible speed.

Sash gar is indeed a very candid counter to common spinners, if not all of them.
Starmie will usually attack the switchin which means prediction is key when switching in gar but I'm sure you can deal with starmie well enough. However I don't see sub working too well with sash and dbond. Especially since cruel has a chance to burn and protect stall etc. I would recommend focus blast slashed with Hp fire to hit stuff like heatran and still retain a 2hko on ferro and forre(sturdy), and kill tar without making it 1 for one. Thunder or pain split can be slashed over sub to deal with cruel and get back to sash range vs blobs and the like. I enjoy the old school sash bond gar alot! Hope that helped!

Edit: didn't see Pocket's post but yea basically same idea

[CTC]

Originally Posted by Fat King

Heh.

Thanks for the good comments. I just hope this set doesn't get overlooked

Smh isn't that from Crockodiles wrath Tho -_-

[Remedy]

Originally Posted by Fat CTC

Sash gar is indeed a very candid counter to common spinners, if not all of them.
Starmie will usually attack the switchin which means prediction is key when switching in gar but I'm sure you can deal with starmie well enough. However I don't see sub working too well with sash and dbond. Especially since cruel has a chance to burn and protect stall etc. I would recommend focus blast slashed with Hp fire to hit stuff like heatran and still retain a 2hko on ferro and forre(sturdy), and kill tar without making it 1 for one. Thunder or pain split can be slashed over sub to deal with cruel and get back to sash range vs blobs and the like. I enjoy the old school sash bond gar alot! Hope that helped!

Edit: didn't see Pocket's post but yea basically same idea

Ye, seconding the Focus Blast.
I stole Trinitrotoluene's RMT Gengar, and built a team around it along with Deoxys-D and a Pursuiter.
I tried FBlast>Substitute following the advices of Undisputed and this worked really well.
Just for the same reasons, hitting Heatran, Terrakion, and when Ttar wants to trap you after you kill the spinner for instance.

Basically there is no spinner that can beat the core Gengar Weavile (provided they don't totally predict your Destiny Bond).
Since Forretress is killed by HP Fire.
Donphan can't touch Gengar.
Tentacruel is either killed by Shadow Ball if he tries to tank, or killed by Destiny Bond.
For Starmie, if Sash is up I can go Gengar and kill it with the sash saving me. If I get hit on the switch, I just stay, and if Starmie kills me, I revenge it easily with Weavile. The hazards are still up, I did my job ;)

Why Weavile? no other Pursuiter is fast enough to outspeed stuff like Starmie while being able to OHKO them no matter what they try to do with Pursuit.


Funny to see, that only a SuckerPunch/Foresight Hitmontop would put this core in a tough situation.