Smogon University PO Statistics — June 2012 - Page 7

SHUCKLE MAN · Jul 21st, 2012, 6:02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat cjrocker

Or Articuno.

Actually there are a lot of Legendaries in the lower tiers, for example all the Regis are in NU except Registeel, who is UU. Moltres and Entei have both been RU staples for some time, I think.

When I started playing Pokemon on the Internet, it wasn't uncommon in some communities (or Netbattle servers lol) for all legendaries to be banned.

It really just goes to show why it's good to test Pokemon.

***Antar**** · Jul 21st, 2012, 7:11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat SHUCKLE MAN

When I started playing Pokemon on the Internet, it wasn't uncommon in some communities (or Netbattle servers lol) for all legendaries to be banned.

It really just goes to show why it's good to test Pokemon.

I still get people who challenge me to Wi-Fi battles who say "no legendaries..."

judgement5 · Jul 23rd, 2012, 11:42:50 PM

Am I the only one who hopes thundurus-t won't go uber, just like the thundurus form before it did?

***Antar**** · Jul 27th, 2012, 1:45:59 PM

Things are looking good for me to be able to post July usage stats on August 1.

Did a sample run on PS data for July 1-26.

Most interesting thing I found? Eccentric Ditto is currently in no danger of rising any higher than NU.

UltiMario · Jul 27th, 2012, 3:18:46 PM

I really do find it weird how few Ditto there are, especially considering how common they were in old DW.

Scarfwynaut · Jul 27th, 2012, 4:13:04 PM

Scrafty is probably going back to OU at the next tier change, whatever people that forgot about it started using it again because of its "UU status."

Chansey is probably staying in OU now unfortunately. Abomasnow is probably staying in OU Im seeing a ton of it.

Metagross useage is overall the same, I don't see it falling despite is poor use in BW2, at least not in the next tier change.

Ive also seen far less Reuniclus and Infernape, but their useage and power alone will probably keep them in OU for the rest of the generation. They are moving to be more lower OU pokemon like Latias.

Slowbro probably got the boost it needed to peak in low OU, Amoonguss maybe but I have my doubts as its useage is starting to decline.

The only pokemon I see dropping is Tornadus with people whoring Tornadus-T. Dugtrio and Mew will probably fluctuate between the tiers for the rest of the generation. Ive seen a decent amount of Virizion as well, but its still pretty uncommon, I could see it drop my the end of the generation.

Outrageous · Jul 29th, 2012, 7:19:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

Scrafty is probably going back to OU at the next tier change, whatever people that forgot about it started using it again because of its "UU status."

Chansey is probably staying in OU now unfortunately. Abomasnow is probably staying in OU Im seeing a ton of it.

Metagross useage is overall the same, I don't see it falling despite is poor use in BW2, at least not in the next tier change.

Ive also seen far less Reuniclus and Infernape, but their useage and power alone will probably keep them in OU for the rest of the generation. They are moving to be more lower OU pokemon like Latias.

Slowbro probably got the boost it needed to peak in low OU, Amoonguss maybe but I have my doubts as its useage is starting to decline.

The only pokemon I see dropping is Tornadus with people whoring Tornadus-T. Dugtrio and Mew will probably fluctuate between the tiers for the rest of the generation. Ive seen a decent amount of Virizion as well, but its still pretty uncommon, I could see it drop my the end of the generation.

Yeah, Scrafty has been seeing some more usage in OU, especially me. Scrafty's drop suddenly made me remember how impressed it left me, so I started using it again. And I still use Metagross and always will. I'm confused on why everyone is hogging Tornadus-T over Tornadus. Tornadus may be frailer than the Therian Form, but he packs more power, and thus he's a good choice if you want pure power. Mew and Dugtrio leave me curious. I have no idea why Virizion's usage is so low, that thing is great at hunting Tyranitars and Politoeds as well as the Scizor+Rotom-W Core. That thing can take down both Weather and VoltTurn. Because of how many things Virizion can take on I'm confused on why Virizion's usage is low. I need an explanation on what forces its low use. And Blissey is still used more than Chansey, by the way.

Danger Mouse · Jul 29th, 2012, 8:58:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Outrageous

Yeah, Scrafty has been seeing some more usage in OU, especially me. Scrafty's drop suddenly made me remember how impressed it left me, so I started using it again. And I still use Metagross and always will. I'm confused on why everyone is hogging Tornadus-T over Tornadus. Tornadus may be frailer than the Therian Form, but he packs more power, and thus he's a good choice if you want pure power. Mew and Dugtrio leave me curious. I have no idea why Virizion's usage is so low, that thing is great at hunting Tyranitars and Politoeds as well as the Scizor+Rotom-W Core. That thing can take down both Weather and VoltTurn. Because of how many things Virizion can take on I'm confused on why Virizion's usage is low. I need an explanation on what forces its low use. And Blissey is still used more than Chansey, by the way.

I dunno, I haven't seen scrafty once lately, but that's just me. I haven't seen Metagross either. People use Tornadus-T over Tornadus-I because of its speed and regenerator. Sure, you lose out on some power, but being fast and able to hop in and out of battle at will are HUGE benefits. I'd argue that Tornadus-T straight up outclasses Tornadus-I. As for Virizion, I think part of the reason for its low usage is that it doesn't have a reliable fighting STAB - it has to use focus miss. Keldeo, on the other hand, has the freaking amazing Secret Sword, which Virizion would kill to have.

shrang · Jul 29th, 2012, 9:15:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Danger Mouse

I dunno, I haven't seen scrafty once lately, but that's just me. I haven't seen Metagross either. People use Tornadus-T over Tornadus-I because of its speed and regenerator. Sure, you lose out on some power, but being fast and able to hop in and out of battle at will are HUGE benefits. I'd argue that Tornadus-T straight up outclasses Tornadus-I. As for Virizion, I think part of the reason for its low usage is that it doesn't have a reliable fighting STAB - it has to use focus miss. Keldeo, on the other hand, has the freaking amazing Secret Sword, which Virizion would kill to have.

I wouldn't say Tornadus-T completely outclasses Tornadus-I. While yes, Therian is much more useful as an attacker and all round Pokemon, Tornadus-I still has Prankster up its sleeve. It can be your clutch Rain Dancer, as well as use stuff like Prankster Taunt and Prankster Tailwind (2nd one is really cool).

alexwolf · Jul 29th, 2012, 9:22:40 AM

Nah Shrang, priority Tailwind is the only thing that Tornadus-I has going for it (priority Rain Dance only helps against Sun sweepers, while Tailwind helps outspeeding anything) and this is such a small niche. While yeah Tornadus-I is stronger, it doesn't matter most of the times, as they are walled/checked by the same things (Scarf Rotom-W, Jolteon, Jirachi and Chansey), not to mention that Tornadus-I is easier to play around because it is usually choiced, because LO + SR damage racks up really fast. So i would say that in 19 out of 20 teams i make, i would rather use Tornadus-T than Tornadus-I, which means that the latter is outclassed.

Superpowerdude · Jul 29th, 2012, 9:25:44 AM

Additionally Regular Torn has a more powerful specs set although not being able to out speed starmie can be a bitch

EonX- · Jul 29th, 2012, 12:03:06 PM

Agreeing with alexwolf on the whole Tornadus thing. Both may have the same defenses, but I'll gladly trade a little bit of offensive power for Regenerator and the ability to say "screw you" to the likes of Alakazam, Starmie, and ballsy Dugtrio.

As for Infernape (Scarfwynaut mentioned it a few posts above) Scarf Infernape is actually a hidden savior for Sun teams. Destroys Heatran with Fighting STAB, revenges so many things with boosted Flare Blitzes, has HP Ice to revenge Dragonite and Salamence, and gives you at least a 50/50 shot to get past Scarf Terrakion. Many of those things can get to be real issues for most Sun teams and Infernape can live off of CC for a couple of turns in rain. Just give it a wallbreaker or 2, and it can really clean up late-game too.

**Taylor** · Jul 29th, 2012, 12:39:34 PM

Well, seems after twenty games trying Ditto in Wifi OU on one of my sand teams, including SpecsKeldeo, had me third on PO's ladder. What Ditto offers you when selecting your team members is that you don't feel obligated to provide revenge killers/Scarfers because Ditto fills that void by itself. From there you can begin to create a really flexible team that also has a strong strategy and win condition in all kinds of matches.

I think depending on the direction of the tier when Genesect is released and BW2 goes under some sort of examination as to the state it is in, then Ditto could prove to be OU material and with a firm stance on its position. There's so many situations where you instantly recieve a potential win condition simply because you switched in amidst your opponent's Pokemon setting up.

Choice Specs Keldeo is another threat entirely. It's almost exposing Terrakion's brute strength and showcasing just how offensive BW, as a whole, has become. Between the traditional set lacking Hidden Power, reason being I carry Tyranitar to Pursuit most of Keldeo's counters, you have Hydro Pump and Secret Sword to force even Gastrodon to run maximum defense EVs.

Lemme jus' say that July should be interesting statistically speaking!

Outrageous · Jul 29th, 2012, 1:39:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Danger Mouse

I dunno, I haven't seen scrafty once lately, but that's just me. I haven't seen Metagross either. People use Tornadus-T over Tornadus-I because of its speed and regenerator. Sure, you lose out on some power, but being fast and able to hop in and out of battle at will are HUGE benefits. I'd argue that Tornadus-T straight up outclasses Tornadus-I. As for Virizion, I think part of the reason for its low usage is that it doesn't have a reliable fighting STAB - it has to use focus miss. Keldeo, on the other hand, has the freaking amazing Secret Sword, which Virizion would kill to have.

Speaking of Virizion, it doesn't have to rely on Focus Miss. Thanks to its offensive stats being 90 apiece, it can go mixed or physical. Focus Miss only applies to the special set, and you don't have to run that. Besides, Rain and Sand are more prominent than ever. I use Metagross and Scrafty A LOT and thus my usage of them could possibly make an impact. Speaking of Tornadus-T, I don't use it too frequently, but Tornadus-I could pack some more power which I want. I don't really rely too much on Tornadus-T's bulk and Regen to win me. Though the higher speed does help, I agree. And I haven't seen Chansey or Conkeldurr, but that may be just me. So overall, how this has been going is pretty mixed.

Danger Mouse · Jul 29th, 2012, 1:43:51 PM

Generally calm mind is better on virizion since it compliments its fantastic special defense so well, but you're right, a swords dance set is also possible.

Outrageous · Jul 29th, 2012, 3:13:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Danger Mouse

Generally calm mind is better on virizion since it compliments its fantastic special defense so well, but you're right, a swords dance set is also possible.

Generally 129 Special Defense is good enough. It can take many hits as well as coverage from Tyranitar and Politoed. Swords Dance is generally better in my opinion since it gives more immediate power to make up for a merely usable Attack stat. Though Calm Mind could be helpful if needed. Besides, When you "quote" a post, I've always been wondering why it says "Fat" before the username of the original poster.

~~superbadd~~ · Jul 29th, 2012, 8:35:19 PM

Things that I haven't seen at all while laddering:
Virizion
Reuniclus
Jolteon
Mew
Infernape

I'm predicting either these guys will drop or be the bottom of the barrel next month. Next months stats will be the most interesting in a while. Ironically most of them are fighting or psychic types.
Things like mamo and jirachi will be top ten for sure.

Zentrius · Jul 29th, 2012, 9:04:30 PM

I actually have seen a TON of Bronzong while laddering on PS/PO Server as a Tornadus-T counter, so he may be 35-ish or something like that.

Outrageous · Jul 29th, 2012, 9:39:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat superbadd

Things that I haven't seen at all while laddering:
Virizion
Reuniclus
Jolteon
Mew
Infernape

I'm predicting either these guys will drop or be the bottom of the barrel next month. Next months stats will be the most interesting in a while. Ironically most of them are fighting or psychic types.
Things like mamo and jirachi will be top ten for sure.

I'm on Virizion's side, and I'm helping it just not to drop. Speaking of Infernape and Reuniclus, they won't drop. They're in the category "Substandard at best but not leaving OU anytime soon". Jolteon and Vaporeon are also substandard. Mew is most likely going to flunctuate between tiers for the remainder of Gen 5.

Outrageous · Jul 29th, 2012, 9:39:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Zentrius

I actually have seen a TON of Bronzong while laddering on PS/PO Server as a Tornadus-T counter, so he may be 35-ish or something like that.

So you're telling me that Bronzong will be OU again?

~~superbadd~~ · Jul 29th, 2012, 10:10:59 PM

What's wrong with a pokemon dropping? You can still use it in ou you know. -.- I just don't get this about people, there's no harm in letting a pokemon sink in usage, let another tier try it out. Using a pokemon for the sake of it not dropping is just the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. If you're doing that, Obviously its overstayed its welcome in whatever tier it's in. Jolteon isn't substandard, it will drop as soon as raikou and zapdos get their dw abilities. It doesn't even have much of a niche anyway.

2sly4u · Jul 29th, 2012, 11:26:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat superbadd

Jolteon isn't substandard, it will drop as soon as raikou and zapdos get their dw abilities. It doesn't even have much of a niche anyway.

Uh... Jolteon is one of the best abusers of Rain in the game, so I'd hardly say it doesn't have a big niche. If you can weaken Ferrothorn and beat Ground-types (the latter of which Jolteon can do on its own with HP Ice), he can easily sweep through a ton of teams with Thunder. Volt Switch hurts a ton too, and makes Jolteon one of the fastest scouts in the game. He hasn't been as common since Thundurus-T has come out, but the genie can't sweep as efficiently because his Base Speed isn't great. Specs Jolteon can punch holes in walls and sweep late game, all without setting up.

Also, don't compare Zapdos and Jolteon. The former is basically forced to run a defensive set since it's otherwise outclassed by Thundurus-T, while the latter is a fast, powerful and frail Rain abuser. They're not similar at all except for their typing and ability. It's kind of like comparing Reuniclus and Alakazam; they're two very different pokemon.

~~superbadd~~ · Jul 29th, 2012, 11:33:44 PM

The same could all be said about raikou. Except it's stronger, bulkier and has access to CM. The only thing jolteon has over it is speed and (lol) baton pass. Jolteon can't do shit to ferrothorn, a full invested ferrothorn can tank jolteon's attacks all day, every day. At least raikou has a chance at beating it due to having superior bulk and a boosting move and zapdos can roast it with heatwave. Zapdos is more appealing to rain teams, it can reliably recover with roost and can defeat breloom and almost every other grass type in the tier. Zapdos also has access to baton pass and can make better use of it than jolteon. Like I said it doesn't have much of a niche. The fact that all three are electric types is enough of a reason for comparison.

2sly4u · Jul 29th, 2012, 11:46:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat superbadd

The same could all be said about raikou. Except it's stronger, bulkier and has access to CM. The only thing jolteon has over it is speed and (lol) baton pass. Jolteon can't do shit to ferrothorn, a full invested ferrothorn can tank jolteon's attacks all day, every day. At least raikou has a chance at beating it due to having superior bulk and a boosting move and zapdos can roast it with heatwave. Zapdos is more appealing to rain teams, it can reliably recover with roost and can defeat breloom and almost every other grass type in the tier. Like I said it doesn't have much of a niche.

That true, but Jolteon's Speed advantage is significant. Raikou doesn't outspeed Toradus-T or +1 Gyarados, for starters. And while Ferrothorn walls Jolteon, that's what teammates are for, and he can always run HP Fire if you're desperate. Regardless, Ferrothorn will beat CM Raikou one-on-one with Leech Seed and Power Whip, or at the very least cripple it with Thunder Wave. If you're running Aura Sphere you'll win, but then you need to run a Rash nature (lol), which makes him non-viable.

And yes, Zapdos can do all the things you listed but A) It's still outclassed by Thundurus-T, who's stronger, faster, and beats Grass types with HP Ice. Just beating Ferrothorn doesn't make up for a better Speed tier and 20 more base Special Attack. B) Jolteon has no problems with Grass-types outside of Breloom and Ferro since it runs HP Ice and C) Zapdos completely different than Jolteon. Stop comparing them.

~~superbadd~~ · Jul 29th, 2012, 11:58:22 PM

Raikou can tank hits from tornadus-t unlike jolteon so outspeeding it doesn't really matter. If ferrothorn lacks power whip it loses to raikou. We're talking about volt absorb raikou meaning using Twave on it is a no no. Raikou's bulk is worth it in the end it can take a powerful priority moves from dragonite and breloom and isn't 2HKO'd by thunderus-t's hp ice. Now that all of that is covered, Jolteon's only niche is outspeeding +1 gyarados or dragonite, which really isn't that big of a deal to warrant its stay in ou. Ditto can actually take advantage of those boosts.

Jul 23rd, 2012, 11:42:50 PM	#153
judgement5 Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 5	Am I the only one who hopes thundurus-t won't go uber, just like the thundurus form before it did? __________________ You could only wish to be this epic http://gifsoup.com/view3/2108687/ttgl-drill-a.gif

Jul 27th, 2012, 1:45:59 PM	#154
*Antar That's Dr. Antar to you Super Moderator** Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,050 DC Metro Area	Things are looking good for me to be able to post July usage stats on August 1. Did a sample run on PS data for July 1-26. Most interesting thing I found? Eccentric Ditto is currently in no danger of rising any higher than NU. __________________ Codes and Hacks I Use PBR FC: 4898-8739-8815 (See here) Black FC: 4040 5386 0128 / White 2 FC: 4771 3664 7215 My Narrated PBR & Gen V Battles My Trade Thread Convert any sim team to pkms Pokemetrics: A Blog

Jul 27th, 2012, 4:13:04 PM	#156
Scarfwynaut Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,084 PA	Scrafty is probably going back to OU at the next tier change, whatever people that forgot about it started using it again because of its "UU status." Chansey is probably staying in OU now unfortunately. Abomasnow is probably staying in OU Im seeing a ton of it. Metagross useage is overall the same, I don't see it falling despite is poor use in BW2, at least not in the next tier change. Ive also seen far less Reuniclus and Infernape, but their useage and power alone will probably keep them in OU for the rest of the generation. They are moving to be more lower OU pokemon like Latias. Slowbro probably got the boost it needed to peak in low OU, Amoonguss maybe but I have my doubts as its useage is starting to decline. The only pokemon I see dropping is Tornadus with people whoring Tornadus-T. Dugtrio and Mew will probably fluctuate between the tiers for the rest of the generation. Ive seen a decent amount of Virizion as well, but its still pretty uncommon, I could see it drop my the end of the generation. __________________ I am not Scarf Wynaut on Pokemon Showdown. I am PrincesoBubblegum

Jul 29th, 2012, 9:22:40 AM	#160
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,627 Greece	Nah Shrang, priority Tailwind is the only thing that Tornadus-I has going for it (priority Rain Dance only helps against Sun sweepers, while Tailwind helps outspeeding anything) and this is such a small niche. While yeah Tornadus-I is stronger, it doesn't matter most of the times, as they are walled/checked by the same things (Scarf Rotom-W, Jolteon, Jirachi and Chansey), not to mention that Tornadus-I is easier to play around because it is usually choiced, because LO + SR damage racks up really fast. So i would say that in 19 out of 20 teams i make, i would rather use Tornadus-T than Tornadus-I, which means that the latter is outclassed. __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check! Last edited by alexwolf; Jul 29th, 2012 at 12:41:15 PM.

Jul 29th, 2012, 9:25:44 AM	#161
Superpowerdude A Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 913 Australia Mentor	Additionally Regular Torn has a more powerful specs set although not being able to out speed starmie can be a bitch __________________ #ratemyteam \| Smog Work\| Rater Of the Week \| RMT \| Dogbirds Join #dogbirds on irc!!!

Jul 29th, 2012, 12:03:06 PM	#162
EonX- Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 192 United States	Agreeing with alexwolf on the whole Tornadus thing. Both may have the same defenses, but I'll gladly trade a little bit of offensive power for Regenerator and the ability to say "screw you" to the likes of Alakazam, Starmie, and ballsy Dugtrio. As for Infernape (Scarfwynaut mentioned it a few posts above) Scarf Infernape is actually a hidden savior for Sun teams. Destroys Heatran with Fighting STAB, revenges so many things with boosted Flare Blitzes, has HP Ice to revenge Dragonite and Salamence, and gives you at least a 50/50 shot to get past Scarf Terrakion. Many of those things can get to be real issues for most Sun teams and Infernape can live off of CC for a couple of turns in rain. Just give it a wallbreaker or 2, and it can really clean up late-game too.

Jul 29th, 2012, 12:39:34 PM	#163
Taylor no.... no i do not look like psyduck Moderator Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,989 play?	Well, seems after twenty games trying Ditto in Wifi OU on one of my sand teams, including SpecsKeldeo, had me third on PO's ladder. What Ditto offers you when selecting your team members is that you don't feel obligated to provide revenge killers/Scarfers because Ditto fills that void by itself. From there you can begin to create a really flexible team that also has a strong strategy and win condition in all kinds of matches. I think depending on the direction of the tier when Genesect is released and BW2 goes under some sort of examination as to the state it is in, then Ditto could prove to be OU material and with a firm stance on its position. There's so many situations where you instantly recieve a potential win condition simply because you switched in amidst your opponent's Pokemon setting up. Choice Specs Keldeo is another threat entirely. It's almost exposing Terrakion's brute strength and showcasing just how offensive BW, as a whole, has become. Between the traditional set lacking Hidden Power, reason being I carry Tyranitar to Pursuit most of Keldeo's counters, you have Hydro Pump and Secret Sword to force even Gastrodon to run maximum defense EVs. Lemme jus' say that July should be interesting statistically speaking! __________________

Jul 29th, 2012, 1:43:51 PM	#165
Danger Mouse Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 261 New York	Generally calm mind is better on virizion since it compliments its fantastic special defense so well, but you're right, a swords dance set is also possible. __________________ How strange it is to be anything at all... http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471821 Rate My Team - OU Heavy Offense - Keldeo deserves more respect!

Jul 29th, 2012, 8:35:19 PM	#167
~~superbadd~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 357	Things that I haven't seen at all while laddering: Virizion Reuniclus Jolteon Mew Infernape I'm predicting either these guys will drop or be the bottom of the barrel next month. Next months stats will be the most interesting in a while. Ironically most of them are fighting or psychic types. Things like mamo and jirachi will be top ten for sure.

Jul 29th, 2012, 9:04:30 PM	#168
Zentrius Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 92 "And then the entire population was staring at her, like she was some sort of freak monster ..."	I actually have seen a TON of Bronzong while laddering on PS/PO Server as a Tornadus-T counter, so he may be 35-ish or something like that.

Jul 29th, 2012, 10:10:59 PM	#171
~~superbadd~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 357	What's wrong with a pokemon dropping? You can still use it in ou you know. -.- I just don't get this about people, there's no harm in letting a pokemon sink in usage, let another tier try it out. Using a pokemon for the sake of it not dropping is just the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. If you're doing that, Obviously its overstayed its welcome in whatever tier it's in. Jolteon isn't substandard, it will drop as soon as raikou and zapdos get their dw abilities. It doesn't even have much of a niche anyway.

Jul 29th, 2012, 11:33:44 PM	#173
~~superbadd~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 357	The same could all be said about raikou. Except it's stronger, bulkier and has access to CM. The only thing jolteon has over it is speed and (lol) baton pass. Jolteon can't do shit to ferrothorn, a full invested ferrothorn can tank jolteon's attacks all day, every day. At least raikou has a chance at beating it due to having superior bulk and a boosting move and zapdos can roast it with heatwave. Zapdos is more appealing to rain teams, it can reliably recover with roost and can defeat breloom and almost every other grass type in the tier. Zapdos also has access to baton pass and can make better use of it than jolteon. Like I said it doesn't have much of a niche. The fact that all three are electric types is enough of a reason for comparison.

Jul 29th, 2012, 11:58:22 PM	#175
~~superbadd~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 357	Raikou can tank hits from tornadus-t unlike jolteon so outspeeding it doesn't really matter. If ferrothorn lacks power whip it loses to raikou. We're talking about volt absorb raikou meaning using Twave on it is a no no. Raikou's bulk is worth it in the end it can take a powerful priority moves from dragonite and breloom and isn't 2HKO'd by thunderus-t's hp ice. Now that all of that is covered, Jolteon's only niche is outspeeding +1 gyarados or dragonite, which really isn't that big of a deal to warrant its stay in ou. Ditto can actually take advantage of those boosts.