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Jul 1st, 2012, 3:43:37 AM
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南Potest 华Qui 人Vult
     
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Project RoA
Project RoA
Stealing this from tennisace who stole it from Theorymon ^_^ RoA wants to see more activity from past gen discussion and this will be a good way to bridge the generations and liven up! Rules 1. You. must. actually. test. the. sets. you. post. Feel free to post sets you have tested before! I know the past gens ladder is kind of dead though but I'm sure you have some good things you've used previously! :D 2. When you post your sets, post a short description of the set, since people need to know the selling points of the set. At the very least, bullet point what it does well, what conditions it needs to succeed, and what it needs to watch out for. Keep in mind that the set database will be organized into 3 distinct sections, so designate which section your set is for. Here are the sets:
3. Think before you post. If your post is totally useless to the thread, it'll get deleted. 4. Make sure to state which generation and tier your set is applicable to! It can get quite confusing if you don't! (Yes this means that sets from all generations and tiers are welcomed) Have fun posting! :D Try to discuss the posted sets if you can! :)
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Thanks for voting for The Smog Awards! ^_^   Member of the GP Team- VM for a check / stamp! |
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Jul 1st, 2012, 3:44:07 AM
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#2 |
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南Potest 华Qui 人Vult
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THE DATABASE
This is a database of all the sets that have been posted in this thread and proven to be viable. Creative Movesets GSC SubSeed Exeggutor
posted by Umby
ADV Screech + Salac Berry Magneton
posted by Umby
ADV SubSalac Swampert
posted by Pocket
Standard Movesets with a Twist GSC BellyZard
posted by Pocket; set by Floppy
ADV RestTalk Skarmory
posted by Umby
GCS Growth + Roar Vaporeon
posted by Jorgen
RBY Reflect TobyBro
posted by Pocket
GSC Screech Electabuzz
posted by Pocket; made by Flameout?
Under Rated Movesets / Pokemon ADV RestTalk Articuno
posted by Triangles
RBY Mixed Attacker Gyarados
posted by Pocket
ADV Calm Mind Blissey
posted by Pocket; used by ToF??
RBY Wrap Victreebel
posted by Jorgen
RBY Swords Dance Victreebel
posted by Jorgen
ADV Special Sweeper Starmie
posted by ThePillsburyDoughBoy
ADV BoomLax
posted by Tiffany
GSC Curse + Substitute Kangaskhan
posted by Jorgen
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Thanks for voting for The Smog Awards! ^_^ Member of the GP Team- VM for a check / stamp! Last edited by sandshrewz; Oct 29th, 2012 at 9:54:26 AM. Reason: updating |
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Jul 1st, 2012, 11:25:23 AM
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#3 |
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 296
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is this the bit where i talk about adv articuno like it is the reincarnation of jesus until everybody's eyes bleed??? This comes under the 3rd category.
 XmasDinner (Articuno) @ Leftovers Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 HP / 112 SAtk / 136 SDef / 8 Spd Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Ice Beam - Rest - Sleep Talk - Roar Articuno is best suited to semi or hardcore stall teams that rely on racking up hazard damage and forcing switches using defensive pivots such as everybody's favourite frozen turkey meal. Articuno's main selling points are that it is probably the best Celebi counter in the game, and one of the best counters to Swampert and Claydol as well. It is also an incredibly reliable phazer that stays alive for vast stretches of time, due to its recovery in RestTalk, excellent special bulk, and immunity to Spikes (no SR yay). Also, its excellent ability in Pressure allows it to thrive in stall-based games. The set above is simple - max HP hits Lefties number, 112 SAtk gives it decent offense behind its Ice Beams, 8 Speed to outpace max speed Jolly Marowak, and 136 SDef and a Calm nature keep it walling those special hits. Reflect or Heal Bell is also good above Sleep Talk. Articuno needs the following to work optimally: Spikes - all of Articuno's best counters are grounded, and what Articuno is excellent at is drawing them in by forcing out a Celebi or Swampert, and then Roaring on this predicted switch and creating more hazard damage. Articuno doesn't really synergise well with the Spikers type-wise, but Articuno's effectiveness doubles alongside Spikes. Spinblockers are also good to support Articuno as it really needs those Spikes up on the opponent's side of the field to work at its best. Gengar is probably the best spinblocker for Articuno, as it beats Forretress and Cloyster, two major annoyances to Articuno. Teammates - most of Articuno's best counters (Tyranitar, Metagross) are outright beaten by Swampert. Articuno also covers Celebi - which everybody's favourite mudfish has trouble with. Also, in conjuction with Celebi or Venusaur, other threats to Articuno such as Raikou are covered by Swampert. Dugtrio also gets an honourable mention as it can trap all the aforementioned threats. HP Fire Magneton is also a good partner for Articuno, as it can trap Forretress, one of Articuno's worst enemies who can continually spin and set up its own Spikes freely on Articuno. Magneton stops all those antics, and also can dispatch of a Meteor Mash-locked CBGross.
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Jul 2nd, 2012, 7:08:06 PM
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#4 |
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Bakuman ;<
  
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,184
Bergenfield
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RBY
 Gyarados ~ Body Slam ~ Hydro Pump / Blizzard ~ Hyper Beam ~ Thunderbolt RBY players usually dismiss Gyarados for its 4x Electric weakness. However, Gyarados has 125 Base Attack, which coupled with its 100 Special, it is one of the premier mixed sweeper of RBY! Starmie and Lapras with comparable versatile offense fall short in this regard as they struggle to get past the special tanks Alakazam and Chansey. Gyarados can easily bulldoze through them with Hyper Beam! Gyarados is also very bulky, and combined with its EQ immunity it finds sufficient opportunities to come out and wreak havoc. Gyarados is one of the few mons that actually fares well against Tauros 1 vs 1, since Gyarados Hydro Pump comes close to a 2HKO, while Tauros fails to 2HKO. Seriously, Gyarados is terrifying late-game :) I prefer Hydro Pump for its raw power on the special specturm (and Hyper Beam for physical offense), letting me better deal with Tauros, Snorlax, and Alakazam, which is a 3HKO. Being able to inflict that much damage to Alakazam shows just how much powerful STAB Hydro Pump from Gyarados is. Blizzard's amazing special effective coverage pales in comparison to Hydro Pump's firepower, imo. GSC  Charizard @ Leftovers ~ Belly Drum ~ Hyper Beam ~ Fire Blast ~ Earthquake No this is not RBY, but Floppy (?) used this to surprisingly deadly effect. Unlike the conventional BellyZard set with Rock Slide, Floppy opted for Hyper Beam to annihilate some impenetrable walls of GSC - most notably Suicune and Snorlax. To illustrate a 999 Atk Hyper Beam does 80% min to Suicune and 88% min to Snorlax! EQ after Belly Drum only does 55~60% to these walls, pretty sad yea. Although Charizard would be rendered immobile after Hyper Beam, the extra 50% damage output to fell one of the toughest walls to take out is more than worth it (?)! RSE  Blissey @ Leftovers EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA (not really sure actually lmao) Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk) ~ Calm Mind ~ Thunderbolt / HP Grass ~ Ice Beam / Flamethrower ~ Softboiled No it's not the weak shit-ass Blissey you all know - this is the trophy-winning Blissey set that allowed ToF to sweep late game against his Malekith, his final opponent of the latest Smogon Tour. You thought Blissey is set-up bait, only to have Blissey set up on you! I remember a retired player Warthog wielding this set, too, although he opted for the fire + grass combo to better destroy Steels, Swampert, and TTar. ToF's boltbeam coverage is undoubtedly fierce, though, being able to hit Salamence and Zapdos harder, among other things.
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Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! | Word of Wisdom for Trainers | Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!  Last edited by Pocket; Jul 5th, 2012 at 2:00:37 AM. |
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Jul 2nd, 2012, 9:24:27 PM
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#5 |
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I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,502
I'm gonna bury you with my sound~
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Cosigning Pocket on CM Blissey. I'm usually about utility, so I used to hate it since it lacked support moves to be a "proper" special wall, but that's technically the same boat Regice is in, though Blissey can actually boost her moves.
Anyway, I've mentioned this a couple of times already, but: RSE  Magneton @ Salac Berry Trait: Magnet Pull EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Hidden Power [Grass] - Thunderbolt - Endure - Screech I took two preexisting Magneton strategies and combined them into one. I figured since Magneton's job ends after Skarmory and Forretress is taken care of, I'd combine the EndureSalac strategy with the Screech + Dugtrio strategy. If Dugtrio comes in, Magneton Endures to get the speed boost and scares it off. If it doesn't believe I have HP Grass or Ice, it gets KO'd (93-100% on the damage calc). Some of the more likely switch-ins afterwards include Swampert, (whom gets hit by HP Grass), Snorlax, Blissey, or Celebi (whom Magneton can Screech, sacrifice itself against, then bring in Dugtrio for huge damage/OHKO). While Magneton is always good for getting rid of Skarmory (and sometimes, Forretress), Dugtrio is relegated towards destroying more offensive-oriented threats, like Tyranitar and Raikou, and only has a revenge killer or predicted switch. This Magneton helps add special walls to its repertoire to make a truly destructive combination to make way your sweepers.  Skarmory @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Impish Nature (+Def, - SAtk) - Spikes - Whirlwind - Rest - Sleep Talk This set of course has its own problems, but I think people underestimate the value of being able to comfortably survive certain attacks to get Spikes down. Most notably STAB Surfs from Swampert or Celebi HP Fire after a +1. Even Snorlax can only 3HKO with Fire Blast. Also a plus is that slower Pokemon can be phazed out if Skarmory selects Whirlwind during Sleep Talk. It basically adds an alternative kind of pressure that you don't get when you're switching away from every special attack in fear of getting blasted. It's ability to handle physical threats diminishes some, but with its already amazing defense and resistances, it can do its normal job without too much trouble. Losing Drill Peck is only really a factor if something like Heracross is being considered, since most of the ground immune threats either destroy Skarmory before Drill Peck would do anything significant back to them and Snorlax would just Curse/Rest off the damage until you WW away anyway. GSC  Exeggutor @ Leftovers - Stun Spore / Sleep Powder - Psychic - Leech Seed - Substitute "Chaotic Waltz," so I've dubbed it for myself. When it gets in proper position, SubLeech set to cause quite an annoyance, but it's main purpose is to be combined with Spikes to spread paralysis (hence prioritizing Stun Spore over Sleep Powder). Teams without a STAB Pursuit to answer it may flail around just a bit trying to shake off Leech Seed with this set up and potentially cripple themselves in the process. It also makes a cool back up check (not a full counter) to Snorlax and Blissey. While Eggy may end up taking some damage from these two (and risk missing Leech Seed in the process), Leeching from these high health monsters refills more health than Substitute takes off. This set becomes even more dangerous with a Growth pass or two, where anything that isn't a Dark type will end up taking a serious amount of damage and risk more Spikes damage when the SDef drop occurs.
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 Last edited by Umby; Jul 2nd, 2012 at 9:50:01 PM. |
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Jul 2nd, 2012, 9:47:57 PM
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#6 |
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Bakuman ;<
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,184
Bergenfield
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Yea, that Eggy set is surprisingly nasty - I think that's one of VIL's favorite set to use. I personally haven't used much, since it role seems very specialized and requires a proper team milieu to pull off effectively (but I may be wrong of course). The lack of Explosion is also off-setting. However, as a recipient of a Growth passer, like you have suggested, this set looks really powerful :d
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Jul 2nd, 2012, 10:08:34 PM
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#7 |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 712
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GSC Vap in itself is no longer a gimmick, but a particular fourth move is pretty effective yet never used.
 Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers - Surf - Growth - Rest - Roar Sleep Talk and Acid Armor are standard fare on that last slot, with Baton Pass occasionally making a guest appearance. But what almost never gets used is Roar, even though it's Vap's #1 answer to its #1 check, Roar Suicune! Being slower than Suicune, Vap phazes Cune the same way a Cursed-up Steelix phazes Skarmory, permitting it to set up freely with no Electrics around. Of course, it's always got a strong Surf to go along with Explosion or Paralysis support to force Electrics into awkward situations. Furthermore, Roar can be used to great effect alongside Spikes support since its ability to set up punishes attempts to mess around with using Rapid Spin. Roar is also handy for helping Vap get two Growths in to 3HKO Snorlax with Surf; the extra Spikes damage on Snorlax plus the extra Leftovers recovery puts Vap in a better position than if it just used Growth a second time in the face of a STAB move. Plus, if Snorlax is silly enough to have Cursed, Vap gets that second Growth gratis. Plus, if nothing else, it acts like any ol' Phazer with regards to Phazing Smeargle, Umbreon, and non-Thunder Missy, so it's got the ability to serve in that capacity if you have no room for another Phazer or if your primary Phazer is snoozing. Also, a pretty cool but little-used dude that is gimmicky, but is ultimately very effective and often surprising is GSC Kangaskhan.  Kangaskhan (F) @ Leftovers - Return - Curse - Substitute - Roar Kangaskhan is the Curse sweeper that flips the tables against all the common Curse counters. Growl and Charm users get screwed over by Substitute, whereas Phazers get out-slowed by a Curse-boosted Roar. It can't touch Ghosts, but that's where stuff like PursuitTar comes in. Even without it, with Spikes support, it can RoarSpikes its way past Ghosts. One dilemma Kanga does run into, though, is whether to lower its Speed DV or not. If it does, it can outslow Steelix after a boost, but if it doesn't, it can outpace Snorlax after a boost to smack it with a +1 Return before Snorlax can Curse up in response. I'd personally prefer the former option, as otherwise Steelix is a hard counter to Kanga, whereas Snorlax can easily just be Phazed out repeatedly until Kanga has enough Curses to maim even +1 Snorlax. Kanga is best saved for the endgame when unsuspecting opponents' teams are in disrepair and the Special Attackers that could otherwise severely weaken it are either statused or in KO range. RBY Victreebel is a cool dude whether it's abusing Wrap or isn't, as long as the opponent decides that Ghosts don't exist.  Victreebel @ No items in RBY, stupid - Wrap - Sleep Powder - Razor Leaf - Stun Spore / Hyper Beam Victreebel can go all-out Wrap abuse on gimmick teams that are all about abusing Wrap to its fullest. It's the only Wrapper that can double as a sleeper, so its place is solidified on these teams. Also, Razor Leaf wrecks Starmie, who otherwise is a vital check to Wrappers due to its high Speed and who might try to Blizzard Victreebel to avoid having to put up with Wrap. The last moveslot either lets Victreebel spread the love of Paralysis for its teammates (Gengar, another prominent Wrapper check who otherwise altogether walls Victreebel, gets ruined by Paralysis), or it can use Hyper Beam so that it can actually finish Chansey off. Victreebel @ Again, no items in RBY you dumb moron - Body Slam - Razor Leaf - Swords Dance - Sleep Powder Victreebel is totally walled by Gengar, but Gengar is likely to have Exploded itself by the time you bust this bad boy out if you've shrouded it in mystery (and it's likely that Gengar might not be used at all by your opponent; it's hardly a "mandatory" Pokemon, unlike Tauros or Chansey). If Gengar is a non-issue, then with some Paralysis support to keep Alakazam from wrecking it, Victreebel can clean up house with Swords Dance-boosted Body Slams and Razor Leaf for smacking the Rocks and high-defense Waters that otherwise tank those pretty well. Anything slow and bulky that could get annoying, such as Exeggutor, Snorlax, or Lapras, promptly gets a Sleep Powder to the face. It's better than the similar Venusaur due to superior Attacking stats and a Speed stat that isn't really relevantly lower; it still outpaces almost all the important stuff that Venusaur does, such as Eggy and Lapras. The only marginally relevant thing it fails to outpace that Venusaur does is Cloyster, whom it ties in Speed anyway. In other news: Hyper Beam Charizard is beyond gimmick, it's just silly; SubSeed Eggy is annoying at best imo, especially with all the Tyranitar and opposing Egg running around atm; Gyara is too legit to quit; and I'm still waiting on Pocket to tell us what's the Buzz. Last edited by Jorgen; Jul 3rd, 2012 at 7:15:31 AM. Reason: Vap doesn't care about Ghosts |
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Jul 2nd, 2012, 10:29:25 PM
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#8 |
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Bakuman ;<
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,184
Bergenfield
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Yes, Jorgen posted!
I thought of posting GrowthVap, too, b/c it's quite unique to Gen II, but it was going to be the one with Sleep Talk. I have never thought of Roar Vaporeon, though, lol! That's pretty darn ingenious :D Couple it with Miltank's Heal Bell support and that Vaporeon can be quite a bitch to take out... Your GSC knowledge is unrivaled by the vast majority of Smogon users (including mine), so it was nice seeing these hidden gems uncovered by you, Jorgen! Victreebel is pretty sweet in RBY; the biggest problem is that it competes for the same slot as Exeggutor (though I guess one can always double up on Grass-types), and when that happens its lack of bulk and terrible typing really hurts. Unlike Exeggutor, a paralyzed Victreebel is quite useless, so Victreebel usually has to avoid taking any hits lest it be crippled by paralysis or knocked out :( For the first set, I usually like Stun Spore, so Victreebel can paralyze even faster threats, which would otherwise be spared from Wrap's indefinite suffocation. However, if I were to choose a different move, I'd probably chose Swords Dance, rather than Hyper Beam, to make Wrap doubly more effective, reducing the amount of turns I need to Wrap. I am too paranoid about random Hyper Beam absorbers to finish off Chansey with Hyper Beam anyways. On the second set, though, I have to say that Hyper Beam > Body Slam all the way. If this is late-game, then Victreebel should be just dropping opponent's Pokemon left and right rather than trying to paralyze stuff with Body Slam. |
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Jul 2nd, 2012, 11:23:52 PM
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#9 |
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Ttar by Doughboy
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Guess I will give a go here!
RSE  Starmie @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Surf - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt - Recover I wasn't in the golden days of ADV, but playing it recently I have found most people don't even expect this set. It seems that almost everyone expects the Rapid Spin set and when they feel safe that I don't have a third coverage move, they get smacked. Since speed is absolute in ADV without boosting, it makes a great revenge killer against faster threats. Midgame when it gets worn down it can heal up against certain bulky waters, like Milotic, for free. Starmie makes a pretty good switch when you are absolutely uncertain what your opponent is going to do (blind switch). Status means it can switch out to heal, an attacking move it can heal up at another point in time, or if they switch to a hard hitting threat chances are Starmie has the good coverage to take it out. Where it really shines is in the endgame. Compared to her Gen 4/Gen5 counterpart, Starmie is relatively weak attacker. But once stuff is weakened, she can safely outspeed them and almost certainly hit them for a good amount to kill with its coverage.
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Jul 3rd, 2012, 10:33:01 AM
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#10 |
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 47
Uruguay
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this is a creative RSE set for the misterious Shedinja, which I've used on PO for great results
 Shedinja @ Choice Band / Lum Berry Trait: Wonder Guard EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Baton Pass - Shadow Ball - Hidden Power [Bug] - Toxic / Confuse Ray The crux of this set is Baton Pass. You may be wondering why to use that move with a choice banded poke. The thing is that Shedinja generates a lot of switches, and the idea is to benefit from that by doing spikes damage as well as switching to an appropiate counter to what your rival sends out. You can switch Shedinja on many common OU pokes such as Suicune/Swampert/Jolteon which usually don't have the apropiate moves to hit it. Then your rival must switch to something that has a way to deal with it like Tyranitar/Salamence and thats were you use Baton Pass, which will work after seeing what the rival sent, thus giving you the forehand for the next turn. Shadow Ball and Hidden Power Bug are there to do some damage after the surprise. With max attack, the choice band and STAB, they are pretty strong moves. Toxic could work to slowly wear down Shedinja's counters, though you may want to use Confuse Ray instead to hit steel types, and have a 50% chance of making a free switch then. You can use Lum Berry over choice band if you are afraid of Toxic/Will-O-Wisp. Teamates are really important for this set to work effectivelly. You MUST use this with Rapid Spin support if you don't want Shed to die on the switch. Having your own spiker is a good idea too because Shedinja generates many switches. Both Forretress and Cloyster are good choices as they can both have Spikes and Rapid Spin. Magneton and Dugtrio are excellent for trapping and killing most of Shedinja's counters. Magneton for all the steel types, specially Skarm and Forry which have the spikes. Dugtrio is mainly for Tyranitar and Metagross with rock slide. Talking about Ttar, you should take a poke that can set up rain or sun after defeating the dinosaur. Jolteon is good to receive the Baton Pass if they switched to Gyarados or Salamence, as it doesn't care about the attack drop from intimidate, is faster than both of them and can OHKO with Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Ice, respectively.
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Jul 3rd, 2012, 12:10:20 PM
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I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,502
I'm gonna bury you with my sound~
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For what you are suggesting, Shedinja requires too much setup for what something like Celebi or even Ninjask can provide with less resources (ie, setting up rain/sun isn't required). I couldn't recommend Shedinja in OU, even as a gimmick (and I'm all about gimmicks).
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Jul 3rd, 2012, 6:19:34 PM
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#12 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8
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Big fan of this pokémon, so here's my RSE version
Lapras - Calm Nature - Shell Armour Item - Lum Berry Moves - Blizzard, Hydro Pump, Rest, Psychic Strategy - First off, Lapras is brilliant in the sense that it knows how to take a hit.Additionally, it knows how to give 'em back too. Lapras is very, very good with Blizzard, and should you come against Steel types, Hydro Pump isn't too shabby. High HP means Lapras will be around for a good while, and it has mediocre speed. Resting with a Lum Berry sort of gives you 50% to 80% extra hp, provided you don't die before you can use it efficiently. So overall, a brilliant combination of endurance and power gives Lapras an edge over most pokémon. |
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Jul 3rd, 2012, 11:38:35 PM
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#13 |
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I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,502
I'm gonna bury you with my sound~
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A few problems with that Lapras:
- It uses Shell Armor. Water Absorb is infinitely more useful. - If you're going to Rest with a berry, use Chesto Berry. Lum will cure other status, should you succumb to one before you Rest, and that prematurely interrupts your strategy. - Blizzard's accuracy/low PP doesn't warrant its use, even with STAB. Ice Beam is a pretty strong move by itself in any given tier, and STAB makes it powerful enough to hit what it needs to hit for solid damage. - There's no real need for Psychic for what you're aiming for. It'll do just as much damage as a Super Effective move as STAB Hydro Pump will do with neutral damage. Thunderbolt is a better choice for hitting other Water types Super Effective. - Starmie pulls this set off infinitely better. Higher Speed, SAtk, and access to Recover makes it more efficient as a sweeper. Being bulky and powerful is one thing, but Lapras has to sacrifice some of its bulk to be any kind of powerful to matter.
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Jul 4th, 2012, 12:55:22 AM
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#14 |
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Bakuman ;<
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,184
Bergenfield
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Sorry, but I honestly don't see any place for Lapras in ADV - a tier of Rock Slide spam and plenty of Thunderbolts. If I want a defensive / offensive Ice-type, I'd go with Regice, which can actually do useful things like walling Zapdos, Celebi, Raikou, Suicune, etc. It has 100 base Special Attack (unlike Lapras's 85), and can still do the boltbeam STAB coverage. Lapras does have STAB Hydro Pump, but Regice gets the job done with bolt beam.
If you are using Lapras as a defensive Water-type, which usually checks Salamence, Aerodactyl, Tyranitar, Flygon, and Metagross, then Swampert, Suicune, Milotic, and Vaporeon are much suited for their lack of Rock-type weakness / reliable recovery. Lapras is sort of unique for being a water-type that can actually counter Gyarados, though :d Yea, Shedinja is shit in a metagame plagued by sandstorm. GameFreak failed for making a Pokemon out of a bug shell. ThePillsburyDoughBoy, nice to see you at RoA! I am glad you have found Starmie's effectiveness in ADV; yea, the lack of Choice Scarf makes Starmie's Speed a pretty big deal here. It's boltbeam & STAB Water coverage is also darn super-effective in this metagame (although TB from Starmie is pretty weak), and I am glad you have pointed out Starmie's amazing utility outside of spinning. It's impressive how Starmie is one of the few mons who have kept its solid OU ranking since the very beginning of Pokemon History (the other one being Gengar) :d |
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Jul 4th, 2012, 8:37:53 AM
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8
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feel kinda stupid, regarding the chesto/lum berry thing, must have slipped my mind. as for the stsrmie over lapras, I disagree. lapras lasts much longer in a fight, which is kinda my main battle style. as for everything else you say though, I guess you're right.
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Jul 4th, 2012, 11:23:01 AM
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#16 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 296
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Quote:
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all triangular entities are liars |
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Jul 4th, 2012, 12:22:22 PM
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#17 | ||
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I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,502
I'm gonna bury you with my sound~
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Quote:
Starmie also gets an advantage mentioned earlier: Quote:
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Jul 4th, 2012, 5:45:05 PM
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#18 |
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Bakuman ;<
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,184
Bergenfield
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pokedump!
RBY  Slowbro ~ Reflect ~ Amnesia ~ Surf ~ Rest We are all familiar with TobyBro right? This is TobyBro that lost TWave for Reflect! Amnesia doubles Special (+2 SpA / +2 SpD), making Slowbro rather impenetrable from the special side, outside of the frequent Thunderbolt crits :( It has great physical bulk and resistance to Psychic moves to start setting up. Many players neutered Slowbro with Explosion; iirc it's 340 move in RBY, and unlike in DPP and BW your slower Pokemon's turn ends after Explosion, allowing the opponent to finish off Slowbro with a second hit from a different Pokemon. With Reflect, however, Slowbro is guarded from Explosions and Self-Destruct, making it nigh invincible to take out without a crit :) This Slowbro is especially fierce mid- late-game when the opposing team is sufficiently paralyzed (you esp. want Chansey paralyzed, as 999 Special Slowbro barely misses a 2HKO on her). GSC  Electabuzz @ Leftovers ~ Thunder ~ Screech ~ Cross Chop ~ Ice Punch Thanks, Jorgen for remembering Electabuzz :) I think I've seen Flameout ~5 years ago using this set, and it really struck a cord with me (although I think he used Fire Punch > Ice Punch). Electabuzz has impressive 105 Spe and less impressive 95 SPA, but its versatile movepool and Thunder's raw power more than makes up for it. Thunder & Ice Punch forms the mighty boltbeam combo, whereas Cross Chop pretty much takes out the rest, most notably Snorlax, Blissey, and Tyranitar. Screech is the crux of the set, though - once this move connects, Cross Chop is doubly effective - even Raikou, the premier non-Ground / non-Blissey Electric sponge, is a 3HKO after the defense drop (so no Rest-stalling :d). Combine Screech with Cross Chop's 25% to crit and you have a Pokemon that forces lots of switches. Electabuzz is a great way to pressure the opponent, and can clean late-game. Skarmory and to a lesser extent Water-types / Gengar are free switch-ins for Electabuzz to start some table-flipping. Spikes support is very much appreciated. Meditate is another option, but unfortunately, it does not provide the heavy damage output that Screech provides. Meditate's Atk boosts also dies with Electabuzz's demise - Screech's effect lingers as long as the opponent's mon does not switch out; the latter scenario is often preferable, since Electabuzz is more of a guerrilla player. Here's a cool replay against Earthworm that does not really show Electabuzz in action, but still cool nonetheless! Here's a log that better shows Electabuzz action when it is on a roll.
Electabuzz action in bold
ADV  Swampert @ Salac Berry Trait: Torrent EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk) ~ Substitute ~ Endeavor ~ Hydro Pump ~ Ice Beam You will be in for a surprise if you were expecting a defensive Water-type when you see this Swampert! This is a Sub Endeavor set that takes advantage of Sandstream damage to finish off the opponent after an Endeavor! With full special attack investment, Swampert hits surprisingly hard with Hydro Pump and Ice Beam, so Endeavor is not the only trick up its sleeve. Especially after Torrent, STAB Hydro Pump will be punching holes! Swampert is a slow Pokemon, but is fast enough to make use of Salac Berry to reach 360 Speed, which makes it faster than Gengar and Starmie with only 352 Speed. Initial sluggishness actually comes in handy, because against a faster Pokemon Swampert can often keep its Sub intact when Salac Berry and Torrent activate, shielding Swampert from retaliation should the opponent survives a hit / takes an Endeavor. TTar is a mandatory partner. I also appreciate Sleep inducers such as Breloom, Milotic, or Gengar, to bring in Swampert safely. Rapid Spin support is also necessary, since it may screw with Swampert's health, thereby making Endeavor less effective. With Spikes cleared, you can switch out Swampert and bring it back in against snoozing / slower Pokemon (it's slow, but it DOES have respectable 240 Speed). DPP  Heracross @ Leftovers Trait: Guts EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) ~ Swords Dance ~ Close Combat ~ Megahorn ~ Stone Edge DPP provided Heracross the one thing it needed - Close Combat! Now it can finally break through Skarmory by itself! Most people initially used Choiced Heracross, but it makes Heracross easily wallable. Make it a Swords Dancer, though, and Heracross becomes a very effective wallbreaker. I can give it Life Orb or even Toxic Orb & Facade to make a Heracross a literal nuke, but I respect Heracross's decent defenses, which allows it to take stray special and Fighting / Ground hits; thus Leftovers. This Heracross pairs well with Lucario :d
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Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! | Word of Wisdom for Trainers | Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official! Last edited by Pocket; Jul 4th, 2012 at 7:40:41 PM. |
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Jul 4th, 2012, 6:03:15 PM
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#19 |
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I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,502
I'm gonna bury you with my sound~
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Shout outs to SalacPert. Not a solid, every day choice for an every day team, but I like using it on specialized teams to take out walls. Blissey and Starmie will still beat you if they catch on, though. D:
Also, I think a number of things with Reflect in RBY go underrated, like Snorlax (thanks for that one, shrapn3l). Chansey is of some note as well but I'm not sure how I feel about losing either Thunder Wave or Thunderbolt.
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Jul 4th, 2012, 9:20:34 PM
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#20 |
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 701
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ADV
Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Thick Fat EVs: 96 Atk / 120 Def / 116 SAtk / 176 SDef Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd) - Counter / Shadow Ball / Earthquake / Brick Break - Body Slam - Fire Blast - Selfdestruct One of my go-to leads on any team really. A nice little Boomlax. The first slot can go to any move you might need on your team. Counter to get an early lead off vs lead Metagross and other lead shtuff. Shadow Ball to hit Gengar, and EQ/BB to hit TTar. Body Slam is quite obvious on a snorlax just to spread para and get a nice stab attack out there to weaken the opponent. Fire Blast is used to kill Steels such as Forry and Skarm, ohkoing standard Forry (Non-Spdef) most every time, and 2/3hkoing Skarm. Selfdestruct is that last move just to go out with a bang (seriously). It can boom on just about anything since it can survive most attacks from anything (even most boosted attacks).
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gorgie: this is upsetting gorgie: ive never been this mad at pokemon is very long davidness: no comprendo davidness: gg Last edited by Tiffanyy; Jul 4th, 2012 at 9:31:18 PM. |
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Jul 4th, 2012, 9:27:00 PM
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#21 |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 712
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Another gimmick shown off in Pocket's match v. Earthworm: Counter Rhydon. Though imo it's really more for Zapdos and its Hidden Power than it is for Snorlax since a lot of Snorlax don't even bother with EQ anymore, and those that do use Belly Drum and can OHKO after the boost anyway. I'm not the biggest fan, simply because Curse lets it act as a dependable check to Snorlax instead of relying on Snorlax to play risky against it (Curse, the standard, is usually pretty good incentive for Snorlax to just get out, even with EQ, instead of staying in to let Rhydon boost its Attack). Plus Curse lets Rhydon clean up in the endgame by letting it muscle past non-Toxic Skarms.
Also, I think on that team, Dnite (which is also fairly little-used in high-level GSC play) might work better than Buzz as the mixed attacker. Granted it's slower, but it's immune to Spikes and actually has the attacking stats to do damage to pretty much any switch-in instead of relying on Screech and switching around possible CC crits to build up Spikes damage. CC not 3HKOing Lax without a crit and Raikou only being scared when it's Screech'd are major bummers. Plus, without a Ghost, Starmie's existence means that the team as it stands is hardly guaranteed to keep the Spikes that Buzz relies on so heavily. Buzz is cool, and can certainly be effective at times, but ultimately I find that there's always just better things for mixed sweeping. EDIT: Buzz does have real nice Speed, though, and wrecks most mixed walls with a combination of being able to outspeed and its STAB Thunder - Miltank and Zapdos being prime examples. It's just that most teams either have a Curselax or a Raikou waiting in the wings, and needing to predict so much for what's often so little reward necessitates Spikes too much for such a frail Pokemon imo. Last edited by Jorgen; Jul 4th, 2012 at 9:43:08 PM. |
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Jul 4th, 2012, 10:06:10 PM
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#22 |
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Bakuman ;<
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,184
Bergenfield
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Haha, yea Counter Rhydon. What makes you think that I don't have Curse, though :p (it's true that I need both Roar + Curse to beat Skarm, though).
Yea, I may be probably better off using other Pokemon than Electabuzz, whose damage output is somewhat disappointing despite its versatility. However, I disagree that Dragonite is any better. In fact I mirror with Borat's claim (iirc) that mixed sweepers are pretty shitty in breaking through walls in GSC. It's not just Electabuzz - Dragonite needs to depend on a coin-flip DPunch to even attempt to dent mons like Snorlax and TTar, and it is hard-walled by Raikou, and to a lesser extent Gengar and Misdreavus. I've actually played around with HP Ground Dragonite just so I can 3-4HKO Raikou, lol. Tyranitar has massive 4 MSS and it is constantly walled by something - without EQ Raikou walls it, without Rock Slide / Ice Beam Zapdos walls it, and without Dynamic Punch it's not getting past Miltank / Umbreon. Nidoking's EQ inflicts less damage on Snorlax than Electabuzz's Cross Chop - it would want to Dynamic Punch if it wants to really get past tanky Normals and Umbreon. Both Nidoking and Tyranitar struggle with Water-types, and all 3 that I have listed struggles with Heracross without a SE Fire Blast or Wing Attack (for Dragonite's case). Electabuzz actually deals with all of the tanks I listed much better than the usual mixed Sweepers. The biggest contributing factor is its STAB Thunder, which provides a powerful neutral / SE move that it can spam. STAB Thunder gives Electabuzz the power to muscle through Water-types that others may falter. The second contributing factor is Speed, which is actually a really big deal. This is because it lets Electabuzz land the killing blow before these tanks can heal themselves back up to stall-worthy conditions. So basically if you're doing any sort of non-set up mixed Sweeping, Electabuzz is the way to go. Or simply don't use these type of Pokemon in GSC, since they are pretty hard to pull off :o |
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Jul 5th, 2012, 12:31:14 AM
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#23 |
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hanging on the edge of tomorrow
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 336
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The EVs on CM Bliss are right, since it's Halloween's spread. Please slash Flamethrower over Fire Blast. You'll need the PPs.
EDIT - About Starmie, I'd go with a defensive spread, but it's just my opinion both cases. |
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Jul 5th, 2012, 11:00:15 AM
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#24 |
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南Potest 华Qui 人Vult
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Woah nice sets!! :D I can't really comment on them because of my lack of knowledge for those tiers >.> So I might as well inject some DPP stuff into this! :D Also, don't worry; I'll be updating the Database every week or so for sets that receive positive feedbacks and/or no objections :) keep them coming ^_^
OH! @Pocket: That Heracross seems interesting! I never really thought of using Leftovers for a change. The pure strength of Guts is pretty nice with a bit of Wish support. +2 Guts Close Combat OHKOes CroCune or something iirc. However, with Gliscor and other Pokemon that wall Heracross being so common, being worn down quickly by status might not be a good thing. Ehh I wonder why that particular EV spread though? What does it outspeed etc? ?_? I never knew it can break through Skarmory at +2 >.> DPP RestTalk + Thunder Wave Gyarados  Gyarados @ Leftovers Trait: Intimidate EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA) - Waterfall - Thunder Wave - Rest - Sleep Talk I didn't exactly create this set. I sort of copied it from others haha. It's the standard RestTalk with a more specially defensive EV spread and Thunder Wave over Roar. Thunder Wave is a good option on a Gyarados as it scares away most Ground-types anyway. RestTalk is the only option for defensive Gyarados as it's Stealth Rock weak etc. What's good about this EV spread is that it allows Gyarados to take Grass Knots from Infernape as long as it doesn't get too much prior damage. The standard EV spread falls to 2 Grass Knots iirc. Intimidate really softens up physical attacks for Gyarados anyway, so the lack of Defense EVs doesn't matter as much. Paralyzing what are common Choice Scarf Rotom-A switch-ins that think you're DD Gyara is a huge plus! Also it can use pseudo-paraflinch ^_^ RestTalk Gyarados is so bulky and reliable. It can handle most physical attackers well and some special attackers. It can't take powerful specail attacks such as Gengar's Shadow Ball etc though. Now for something I feel is pretty underrated but works quite well DPP OU SubCharge Lanturn  Lanturn @ Leftovers Trait: Volt Absorb EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 148 SpD / 56 Spe Modest Nature (+SpA -Atk) - Substitute - Charge Beam - Hydro Pump - Ice Beam 101 HP Substitutes are pretty awesome and prevents it from being broken by Seismic Toss. Lanturn is also quite bulky and often times it takes 2 hits to take down the Substitute. Lanturn is also a lightweight and Low Kicks and some Grass Knots can't even break the Substitute! Lanturn has near perfect coverage with 3 moves, making it a perfect SubCharge sweeper. Lanturn doesn't have too much difficulty setting up either. It can set up on Choice-locked Thunder Bolts etc and most Starmies and Jolteon. In practice, there wasn't too much difficulty setting up. Swampert is annoying for it though, as it can come in on Charge Beam and threaten to Earthquake or Roar it. Base 76 Special Attack might not seem like much. Well, it isn't... But at +1 SpA, Lanturn can start KOing things with Hydro Pump etc. Lanturn is pretty scary to face and can dismantle some FWG cores by itself. Most bulky Water-types can't touch Lanturn and gives it a good opportunity to set up. Lanturn can attempt to sweep multiple times even when it gets forced out due to its low Speed. It needs quite a bit of Rapid Spin support to do so though, and Toxic Spikes will definitely cripple it.
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Thanks for voting for The Smog Awards! ^_^ Member of the GP Team- VM for a check / stamp! Last edited by sandshrewz; Jul 7th, 2012 at 4:27:17 AM. |
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Jul 7th, 2012, 6:11:29 PM
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#25 |
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 203
Porto Alegre, RS, Brazil
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I really liked all the GSC sets (not much the Charizard set, but I can see it working as a kind of Explosion). I'll post some without much explanations, but I think it'll be easy to catch the idea of each. Also, not sure how uncommon those are now.
Alakazam @ Leftovers - Light Screen - Counter - Psychic - Recover Not a big fan of Alakazam, but I like that set. The idea may look obvious, since Light Screen "forces" physical attacks to use Counter, but the beauty here is that this thing is unexpected on Alakazam, and there's Recover to restore the HP after Counter. Also, Light Screen is very good and rare support move that will help teammates. Meganium can also do this effectivelly (with Razor Leaf and Synthesis on the last slots). Blissey @ Leftovers - Seismic Toss - Reflect - Thunder Wave / Toxic - Softboiled Bob used this one on a TSS team. This is a good way to support the team without relying on Heal Bell. Clefable @ Leftovers - Belly Drum - Return - Moonlight - Sing I didn't saw much people using Sing on it (though I didn't saw people using Clefable anyway), and I think Encore and Fire Blast are the standards. This thing is probably the closest to LovelyDrum Lax. Cloyster @ Leftovers - Spikes - Surf - Icy Wind - Explosion Icy Wind will reduce opponent speed on the switch and will allow you to explode first. This is a very risky and obvious strategy, but can force some plays and will make both players guess a lot before do a move. Electabuzz @ Leftovers - Pursuit - Thunder(bolt) - Ice Punch - Fire Punch / Light Screen / Rest Pursuit is very unexpected on it (I think). This thing can wreck havoc on Starmie. The last move is a filler. Most moves are illegal with Pursuit, including Cross Chop. Gengar @ Leftovers - Explosion - Destiny Bond - Counter - Thunderbolt / Giga Drain / Ice Punch The 2 for 1 Gengar. Beat something with Counter and then use the appropriate suicide move to beat another one. Girafarig @ Leftovers - Return - Psychic - Earthquake - Thunder(bolt) This is for UU battles. Girafarig is a very underrated Pokemon IMO, specially because people almost always see it as a Baton Passer. You can also put Shadow Ball somewhere for Hypno if you want. Hitmonlee @ Miracleberry / Blackbelt - Substitute - Reversal - Dynamicpunch - Hidden Power [Ghost] This thing can really wreck havoc on UU as people really don't know it can SubReversal. Also, HP Ghost gives you the correct DVs to gain the max power of Reversal after 4 Substitutes. Dynamicpunch is necessary since Hi Jump Kick will ruin the strategy if it miss. Misdreavus @ Leftovers - Mean Look - Hypnosis - Curse - Protect Since Smogon don't really ban Sleep Trap but only Sleep Perish Trap, this thing is not considered illegal. Mr.Mime @ Leftovers - Substitute - Baton Pass - Psychic - Hypnosis / Encore Another underrated UU Pokemon. Yep, it's fragille, and it's Subtitutes are weak, but it is fast and can Hypnosis or Encore to help it's strategy. Porygon2 @ Leftovers - Thunder Wave - Curse - Double-Edge - Recover This may look counter intuitive, but Thunder Wave help Porygon2 beat Growltanks and can also support the team. Smeargle @ Leftovers - Spikes - Spore - Mirror Coat / Counter - Destiny Bond This is not much realiable, but if you pull it effectivelly, you can beat 2 Pokemon, put another to sleep and lay down Spikes before die. Steelix @ Leftovers - Curse - Body Slam - Roar - Explosion Borat gave me this one. People expect it to have Earthquake on the last slot. Suicune @ Leftovers - Psych Up - Roar - Rest - Surf I'm not a big fan of this set as it is very dependable, but is a nice surprise agains Vaporeon. You can Psych Up his Growths (and maybe Acid Armors) before roar it out and sweep. Tentacruel @ Leftovers - Rapid Spin - Surf - Rest - Mirror Coat You normally don't expect it as a Spinner, but the biggest surprise here ir Mirror Coat, a move people normally forgot it can learn. Of course, you can change Mirror Coat to Sludge Bomb, Toxic or another filler move if you want a more stable spinner. Umbreon @ Leftovers - Mean Look - Baton Pass - Confuse Ray - Rest / Pursuit ~25% chance to work, but if it work, it can be game breaking. Zapdos @ Magnet - Thunder - Rest - Sleep Talk - Reflect Magnet Zapdos. I used this one a lot when Hidden Power were still banned. With the Grounds out, it really wreck havoc.
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