BW2 In-Game Tier List Discussion [Updated 7/24]

[keleyeemoh]

I don't understand why you people are saying some of the things you're saying about Lucario and Azumarill. They're both the MVPs of my team right now, even more than Magnezone (and Growlithe, Espeon, and Zoroark). I run a physical Lucario for the time being (Force Palm/Return/Quick Attack/Bone Rush) and he does quite well. Azurill is even better; coverage in nothing but Aqua Tail and Return is all you need for most Pokemon, and his bulk is pretty good as well. Moving these two Pokemon past the baby stage is no big deal either, because they evolve early and are honestly still pretty decent beforehand (mostly due to Return + Pure Power for Azurill). I'd say Top for both.

[Antihaxxer]

What about Spheal (especially with Thick Fat) ? He comes at the right time (along with Staryu), has a precious Ice type for Dragon gym and Champion, has the very good Water type too ... Gets Surf / Aurora Beam (then IceBeam), can learn Signal Beam with Tutor ... Can Carry Waterfall since he does not need 4 moves ...

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat Manveru123

Except I don't see a single reason to use him over Heracross if you want a physical fighting type.

Heracross is a Black 2 exclusive.

spheal seems interesting since it does have a pretty nice resist to fire/ice, but those two attacks are rare after drayden(there's only like, some derps in Seigaha gym, Kyurem, Iris's Lapras), and spheal has a problem with scrafty. Aside from that it does seem quite fine though.

Also honestly speaking anyone attempting to use special Lucario outside of endgame ought to be shot and thrown off a cliff play the damn game.

[IOS]

I haven't used it, but does Petilil's moveset not look one-dimensional to you guys? It really only has grass as an offensive type, which is resisted by fire, grass, poison, flying, bug, dragon, steel. Even with Quiver Dance, that doesn't strike me as being all that great.

[chicobo329]

Originally Posted by Fat IOS

I haven't used it, but does Petilil's moveset not look one-dimensional to you guys? It really only has grass as an offensive type, which is resisted by fire, grass, poison, flying, bug, dragon, steel. Even with Quiver Dance, that doesn't strike me as being all that great.

If you run into a Grass resist with Lilligant, just toss out a Leech Seed and switch to a counter or work off of boosts from Quiver Dance. You still basically have a 90 base power move with +1 Sp. Atk anyway if you come across a resist and choose to keep Lilligant in. Heck you can even use Toxic (TM06 is in Seaside Cave) on a non-Poison/Steel to tack on extra damage while you're Petal Dancing.

[McGrrr]

Originally Posted by Fat IOS

I haven't used it, but does Petilil's moveset not look one-dimensional to you guys? It really only has grass as an offensive type, which is resisted by fire, grass, poison, flying, bug, dragon, steel. Even with Quiver Dance, that doesn't strike me as being all that great.

If Lilligant is anything like the beast that it was in B/W 1, then mono grass is all that you will need. I loved own tempo petal dance; it was devestating regardless of resistances (after a quiver dance or two). With giga drain there to recover HP against anything neutral, she always seemed to return to 100% HP after every battle.

I attached miracle seed early on, switching later to leftovers when I taught her substitute. Substitute is more useful for in-game purposes than sleep powder; allowing Lilligant to solo the Elite 4 rebattle in B/W 1. Just keep her away from the champion...

[chicobo329]

Originally Posted by Fat McGrrr

If Lilligant is anything like the beast that it was in B/W 1, then mono grass is all that you will need. I loved own tempo petal dance; it was devestating regardless of resistances (after a quiver dance or two). With giga drain there to recover HP against anything neutral, she always seemed to return to 100% HP after every battle.

I attached miracle seed early on, switching later to leftovers when I taught her substitute. Substitute is more useful for in-game purposes than sleep powder; allowing Lilligant to solo the Elite 4 rebattle in B/W 1. Just keep her away from the champion...

Unfortunately good ol' TM90 (Substitute) is postgame in BW2, located yet again in Twist Mountain. Sleep Powder is good ingame for setting up, just be careful about what trainer classes you use it on. Ace Trainers, Veterans, Doctors, PokeFans(!), etc. will quickly use a Full Heal/Full Restore on their Pokemon

[TM13IceBeam]

Isn't the idea to QD while they heal up and then destroy the hell out of them? o.o

[Jackie]

Originally Posted by Fat IOS

You don't get a "vote" if you haven't played the game.

Would you like me to take a picture of me playing it? That seems kinda pointless, but if you want I can upload one and pm you the link...though I really don't understand the need. Having to go physical with Lucario for most of the in-game makes it decidedly less useful then other options. My experience was less than favorable, and therefore I felt that it should be in Mid. You have the right to disagree but I don't quite understand why you feel the need to challenge my right to vote.

[2sly4u]

Originally Posted by Fat Antihaxxer

What about Spheal (especially with Thick Fat) ? He comes at the right time (along with Staryu), has a precious Ice type for Dragon gym and Champion, has the very good Water type too ... Gets Surf / Aurora Beam (then IceBeam), can learn Signal Beam with Tutor ... Can Carry Waterfall since he does not need 4 moves ...

Part of the problem with Spheal is that he's only available in the Winter. Plus his stats before he evolves are TERRIBLE for that point in the game and they're pretty bad as Sealdo as well. That wouldn't be so horrible if he didn't evolve late (44 for Walrein). Even after he's fully evolved, his stats aren't that impressive and he's painfully slow. Ultimately, you'll need to baby him a lot until he's fully evolved, and then you get a pretty average Water-type in return. I'd say Low.

[breh]

You get Spheal at 25-40; in other words, if you're lucky, you'll get one less than 5 levels off from final evolution and one level off from its first evolution. It's not that bad and I remember actually having a lot of fun in XD (where you get far fewer nice moves) with it. I don't expect it'll be low when I try it out.

[2sly4u]

Originally Posted by Fat breh

You get Spheal at 25-40; in other words, if you're lucky, you'll get one less than 5 levels off from final evolution and one level off from its first evolution. It's not that bad and I remember actually having a lot of fun in XD (where you get far fewer nice moves) with it. I don't expect it'll be low when I try it out.

The levels are a good point, but I'm still not entirely sold. I could see mid despite the mediocre stats, but the spotty availability still makes me vote low.

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat Jackie

Would you like me to take a picture of me playing it? That seems kinda pointless, but if you want I can upload one and pm you the link...though I really don't understand the need. Having to go physical with Lucario for most of the in-game makes it decidedly less useful then other options. My experience was less than favorable, and therefore I felt that it should be in Mid. You have the right to disagree but I don't quite understand why you feel the need to challenge my right to vote.

Do you want me to be honest?

Your post was dumb.

I'd like to vote Lucario for Mid. He is commonly touted as being a special attacker yet aura sphere (the only primary STAB special attack learned by level-up (note breeding for vacuum wave is post game)) is not available until 51, making a choice for nature difficult. Being stuck with force palm until you either gain and spend BP for brick break or hit 55 is also a little disappointing.

1. You are voting him Mid on the basis that he is a 'special attacker' even though he learns nothing but physical moves until Aura Sphere.

2. You conveniently overlook his 105 base Attack. It's not even that bad.

Honestly, special Lucario is just... no. Sure, you can run it post-game, but in-game your options are limited to basically Aura Sphere (lv51), Dark Pulse (Heart Scale) or Dragon Pulse (which requires loltutors and is honestly a waste in the long run seeing as lucario learns it by level)

Your post seems to imply that the only way to use Lucario is special even though its impossible. I can perfectly understand IOS's sentiments, because your statement sounds like you've never played the game.

[R_N]

So, again have not played the game, but it seems like a common thread in some of the rankings is that if you can't play to the marginally higher stat the Pokemon quickly enough it's like an instant tier drop (or two)?
Does that seem weird to anyone else? Especially when the marginally lower (by 5 points in Lucario's case...) stat is still competent? idk maybe I'm just missing the point

(Lucario's is 110, by the way)

[chicobo329]

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

Do you want me to be honest?

Your post was dumb.



1. You are voting him Mid on the basis that he is a 'special attacker' even though he learns nothing but physical moves until Aura Sphere.

2. You conveniently overlook his 105 base Attack. It's not even that bad.

Honestly, special Lucario is just... no. Sure, you can run it post-game, but in-game your options are limited to basically Aura Sphere (lv51), Dark Pulse (Heart Scale) or Dragon Pulse (which requires loltutors and is honestly a waste in the long run seeing as lucario learns it by level)

Your post seems to imply that the only way to use Lucario is special even though its impossible. I can perfectly understand IOS's sentiments, because your statement sounds like you've never played the game.

Lucario has a couple of other Special options in game, although they are later in the game: Psychic (Route 13) and Shadow Ball (Rebirth Mountain). Giving him Shadow Ball instead of Dark Pulse can save a Heart Scale for another Pokemon if you need it so that you can run the nice Aura Sphere/Shadow Ball combo.

There's no denying that you're going to have to run it Physical when you first get it, but there's absolutely nothing to stop you from converting him to a Special attacker when his options start to arrive. Lucario is fine either way.

[TM13IceBeam]

I know about that, but it really irks me that ppl are saying to use special lucario when for more than half the game (read: up to like Yamaji) his only special attack is Dark Pulse.

Fighting/Dark and Fighting/Ghost are interchangeable: the only thing fight/dark can't hit for neutral is heracross (which is pretty rare). Still, Shadow Ball is a TM, which is always good.

@RN: Yeah derp, its 110. I only remember his attack being over 100, which just annoys me because its not like physical/mixed lucario is not viable

[Antihaxxer]

What about Joltik ?

I think he's better that in B1W1 with the Water gym, and the additions of Drifblim, Lapras, Archeops in the Elite 4 / Champion.

His movepool didn't change (Giga Drain > Energy Ball) ... Still no Focus Blast :(

But with Elekid, Mareep and Magnemite, he has a lot of competition ...

Mid at best ?

[Jackie]

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

1. You are voting him Mid on the basis that he is a 'special attacker' even though he learns nothing but physical moves until Aura Sphere.
2. You conveniently overlook his 105 base Attack. It's not even that bad.
Your post seems to imply that the only way to use Lucario is special even though its impossible

I'm voting him Mid based on the fact that he learns ONE decent stab move until lvl 50+. And don't give the junk about counter being a decent way to level up, it's a pain getting him to 15 in the first place. I'm not overlooking his base attack, I'm saying there are better options out there. Anything that is a pain to get to a usable point is not high or top material.

I made my point about the natures because I do feel that people don't want to bother leveling two lucario for use in-game, and therefore a choice to grab a sp. atk boosting nature for endgame lucario makes its use in the early and mid game harder, while a choice for an attack boosting Lucario fails to make use of an extremely nice sp.Atk stat and endgame special movepool. This is not to say that a physical Lucario is not feasible or useful, merely not the best option for the pokemon, and not the best pokemon for the job in my opinion.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what the tiers are, Mid isn't "This pokemon sucks," but rather "This pokemon is perfectly usable, but it may take effort and/or be less optimal than other choices." This was the spirit in which I meant my vote, if I am wrong about the tiers, feel free to put the vote toward whichever tier it fits.

[keleyeemoh]

People care about natures in-game?

[Antihaxxer]

I don't really care but if my Pokemon has a negative nature on his main side attack (physical / special), I'll try a new Pokemon


At the end of the game, my Lucario has Close Combat / Ice Punch / Swords Dance / Aura Sphere .... Swords Dance set up for long fight (good vs super hard trainers in Castelia City) and Aura Sphere for regular fights

Lucario doesn't need Special moves more than half of the game, with Force Palm, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Return, Dig / Bulldoze, Rock Slide / Rock Throw ... He has enough coverage

[Nintendee]

I have done a run through on Black 2 and just started another run and would like to give some input on the Pokes that I've used.

Tepig/Emboar:
The starters in this game haven't ever been that good, and I feel that Emboar is outclassed by Darmanitan in terms of pure strength. When I need to use a fighting move, I would usually turn to Lucario instead of Emboar just because of no brick break (unless you grind) and using arm thrust or hammer arm, which lowers his speed even more. Darm is faster and stronger, with an arguably better movepool throughout most of the game. I would say Mid, just because it isn't a bad starter, but there a better options.

Riolu/Lucario:
I see people arguing above about Luke and what his placing should be and I think he should be High. He isn't top tier because pre-level 15 is quite annoying (nearly lost in the first gym, damn lillipup) and the period when force palm isn't doing enough damage is also a pain. As soon as you get Aura Sphere it does change and along with Zoroark was the MVP of my team late-game. Aura Sphere/ Close Combat/ Dragon Pulse/ Thunder or Ice Punch is what I used. His steel typing against the AI is also a great thing to have.

Zoroark:
Easy High tier imo. His extremely fast exp gain (with lucky egg ofc) and great offensive stats makes him a great Poke to use. His frailness is rather frustrating at times, as well as using snarl/return/night slash for parts of the game, but is so good against the elite four it's not even funny. I ran Night Gaze/Flamethrower/Return/Dig on it and was great fun to use.

Sigilyph:
Used him in BW1 and I don't feel it was as good due to the lack of as many fighting types. Gonna put it in High, because psychic is always a great ingame type and with wonder guard you don't have to worry about burn/poison and some other effects. Fairs pretty well with Psychic/Flying STABs for most of the game and then gains Roost, Charge Beam, Energy Ball and the almighty Ice Beam. Great Pokemon.

I did use Mareep for some of the game but dropped it around the Desert area as I felt it wasn't pulling its weight. Don't want to have a say in it though as I didn't carry it with me the entire game.

Started up a new game and chose Oshawott, who is pretty good atm as well as Swagnemite who, along with Darmanitan, should definitely be top tier

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat Jackie

I'm voting him Mid based on the fact that he learns ONE decent stab move until lvl 50+. And don't give the junk about counter being a decent way to level up, it's a pain getting him to 15 in the first place. I'm not overlooking his base attack, I'm saying there are better options out there. Anything that is a pain to get to a usable point is not high or top material.

That's not even enough for the Pokemon to drop to Mid Tier. And the Counter thing was for offense as a Riolu, you obviously don't need to use Counter once you evolve. Don't call Counter junk when you completely misinterpret how it was used (and mind you I was the one who said to use Counter Riolu >.>). You can also slap Return onto Lucario since his happiness is 220 anyway. His offense is not even that bad because you can use Work Up + Return to deal decent damage. Bone Rush is great coverage and helps Lucario destroy Elesa (after you take care of Emolga, that is)

I made my point about the natures because I do feel that people don't want to bother leveling two lucario for use in-game, and therefore a choice to grab a sp. atk boosting nature for endgame lucario makes its use in the early and mid game harder, while a choice for an attack boosting Lucario fails to make use of an extremely nice sp.Atk stat and endgame special movepool. This is not to say that a physical Lucario is not feasible or useful, merely not the best option for the pokemon, and not the best pokemon for the job in my opinion.

I used physical Lucario with a Rash nature. It still worked fine. Of course physical Lucario is not the best option, when you are considering the end. But you obviously cannot conjure Aura Sphere and Dragon Pulse right from the start for your special Lucario. Using your logic, I can also write this statement:

A choice for a special attack boosting Lucario fails to make use of an extremely nice Attack stat

Seriously. The difference between Lucario's Atk and SpA is so insignificant ingame I'd actually say physical Lucario is better because Close Combat has better base power than Aura Sphere and Swords Dance comes earlier.
Finally, people don't use 2 Lucarios in game, I don't know how did you get that opinion at all.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what the tiers are, Mid isn't "This pokemon sucks," but rather "This pokemon is perfectly usable, but it may take effort and/or be less optimal than other choices." This was the spirit in which I meant my vote, if I am wrong about the tiers, feel free to put the vote toward whichever tier it fits.

Lucario doesn't belong in mid. Counter spamming is viable early on because enemy AI is stupid and spams tackle more often than not. And he has his own advantages from others like Gurdurr such that he isn't less optimal than them at all.

There. /rant

On Joltik, he seems to be the same thing as he was in BW1. You can catch him at Lv~30, and Signal Beam isn't that far off given that he gets an entire gym to destroy. And he also has a second gym to destroy, thanks Marlon! Giga Drain might be better for him as it fixes his rather questionable durability. Might make a shot at high, but probably mid.

[chicobo329]

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

On Joltik, he seems to be the same thing as he was in BW1. You can catch him at Lv~30, and Signal Beam isn't that far off given that he gets an entire gym to destroy. And he also has a second gym to destroy, thanks Marlon! Giga Drain might be better for him as it fixes his rather questionable durability. Might make a shot at high, but probably mid.

The only problem with Joltik is that you'll have to rely on Electro Ball for your Electric STAB until late in the game. This is normally okay as he's a speedy little critter, but it does give you unreliable power. There's also Volt Switch but then of course you gotta switch out.

Either you wait for level 54 (Discharge), or splurge on the Thunder TM at Lacunosa Town. What's a shame is that Thunderbolt comes even later than that (Victory Road after beating Hugh).

Because you can get Thunder or Discharge in time for Marlon and Electro Ball isn't exactly a terrible move on him anyway (especially with Thunder Wave), I don't know how or if this would really impact his tier standing. I just think it's worth pointing out for discussion's sake.

[2sly4u]

Alright I finished my run and here are the guys I used that I haven't already talked about.

Oshawott: While not as good as Water starters from previous generations, Oshawott is still a great in-game pokemon. It learns good moves by level-up (including a nice early Razor Shell) and a decent TM selection. Of course, it learns the mighty Megahorn with a Heart Scale, making it useful not only for the gyms but also for the elite four with its Water/Ice/Bug coverage. I'm voting High because of its immediate availability and the dearth of other good Water types.

Drilbur: Drilbur was probably MVP of my run (although I didn't use Magnemite). It's insanely strong, decently fast, and has the much-coveted Steel typing to take advantage of once he evolves. He's a godsend against Elesa, Skyla, and Drayden, and is insanely useful against random trainers thanks to his Steel typing. If you hold off evolution two levels, it gets Earthquake at level 33, and learns Rock Slide four levels before that. He's strong, has decent bulk (again, because of Steel typing), is available early, and doesn't need shards to be effective. Top.

Grimer: I tried. I really did. But mix a late evolution, horrible Special Attack, and nothing but Special moves except for Pound until level 43 and he's impossible to make usable. He learn's a few good TMs and the elemental punches if you grind for shards, but he's still setting you up for failure. Fun Fact though: Grimer can learn Dig (who knew?) Bottom.

Eevee (Flareon): Well, someone needed to use him if we wanted to finish this tier list. Flareon really wishes you could still get Flame Charge before the post-game, since that might bump him up a tier. As it is, He's stuck with Fire Fang as his main physical STAB, and has no way of fixing in his laughable Speed. It's not all bad though, since Flareon still has good Special Bulk and a usable Special Attack, meaning special moves are good choices too. If you use Flareon, you'll definitely want to grind for shards so you can get coverage moves like Superpower and Iron Tail. Flareon isn't terrible, but you're probably better off training a different Fire type. I'm voting Low.

Absol: Absol is pretty dang good. She's fast enough for in-game, has a sky-high Attack stat, and STAB priority in Sucker Punch. Absol's move pool isn't massive, but she makes up for small quantity with quality, packing toys such as Swords Dance, Psycho Cut, and Sucker Punch. She even learns Superpower to muscle past Steels and fellow Darks if you want to grind for Shards. That said, she suffers somewhat from four-moveslot syndrome since she really wishes she could pack Night Slash, Sucker Punch, SD, and two coverage moves. Even so, I'm still voting High because Absol makes mincemeat out of most in-game trainers, can hold its own in all the gyms its available for, and completely destroys 2 E4 members.

I also used Metagross and Spheal, but already voted on them.

[thelaytonmobile]

Oookay, let's see if I can remember what I thought about my team at the start. Bear in mind I like to overlevel (though because of those rebattlable breeders, that's really easy)

Riolu: I'm saying high. Caught him with a Jolly nature, so the natural choice was a physical attacker. Took a little while to level him up to get Force Palm, but he levels up really quickly, faster than Azurill. Once he got that, I used him pretty much any time nothing was super effective. The thing that really sold it for me was the bug gym. I had no fire, flying or rock, and he was already a Lucario, so I just sat there and took all the hits easily, and Force Palm did decent damage. Also taught him Ice Punch, and spent fun times punching Drayden and Iris' dragons in the face. The only trouble with him is before he gets force palm, and the amount of Pokemon with a super-effective move which instantly KOs him, though the steel type means so many hits do no damage at all. He does great against Plasma, and Close Combat OHKOd Black Kyurem in a very anticlimatic way. EDIT: Paralyze on Force Palm was useful, especially for catching Pokemon.

Azurill: Probably mid. Got one with Huge Power, and it really does have a lot of power. It was my choice against fighting types, since it was fairly bulky, and it was a good hitter when I could only manage neutral. However, it sucked before being an Azumarill, and it really lacks coverage. I didn't teach it ice punch in the end, especially seeing as it ended up with 3Hms on it.

Mareep: High. Even in early game it kills stuff pretty quickly with thundershock. Unfortunately it has a lull between from after Elesa to before Skyla, where it learns Discharge, where it fails to OHKO. However, it's bulky enough to take a few extra hits. Also once it gets a bit higher level, it picks up some nice coverage moves. EDIT: Static activated often, and was in fact useful.

Sandile: High. Always gets the job done. Dig is annoying to use though, and then it gets EQ, which is annoying in doubles and triples. However, with Intimidate it can take a few physical hits, and Dark type is a very good type to have. Does good vs Plasma too.

Volcarona: Low for the main game, but including post E4 it's mid. Hardly ever used it, since it comes way too late for the bug gym. When I tried to use its awesome special power on fighting types, they OHKOd with Rock Slide. Has no decent attacks for ages, they either have low power or miss. You'd think it would be low, and for the main game it is. But it can do some damage to the E4 (since you have Flamethrower), and if you need to take a special attack, it's amazing. Post game is where it really shines. If something tries to use a special attack, Quiver Dance for as long as you like, then Flamethrower the rest of the team to oblivion (for example, Alder). It still lacks coverage, though, but who needs it at this point?
One extra point in its favour: for a team with no HM slaves, something with Fly is hard to find. So Volcarona made itself invaluable in that way at least!

This is what I can remember. If anyone wants to discuss my points I may remember something and revise my opinion a little. I hope my post was informative.