Avengers Assemble!

Elephant · Jul 5th, 2012, 9:59:27 AM

Hi this is the Elephant. I'm new to smogon but i've played on its server pretty much all the time. So after numerous HO teams that i've tried to make this one finally did well. It got somewhere in the 1400s on the smogon server before the ladder reset. It could have gone farther, but what can ya do. So instead of complaining lets just get started!

Sneak Peek:

More in depth:

Deoxys-D @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Magic Coat
- Taunt

This pokemon almost always sets up a stealth rock. this is basicly montagua's set for deo d, but most people use this type of HO nowadays. anyway, still a really good set, magic coat for taunts from pokes such as aerodactyl, other deo ds, etc. Taunt helps shut down all other hazard threats such as ferrothorn, skarm, or even stuff like TR reuniclus, or a dragonite trying to set up. The EV spread provides bulk with speed to outspeed adamant mence, modest volcarona, all dnites. Rocky Helmet used to damage anything that literally touches it. If the poke that touches it has a LO it usually brings them down to 75% HP after 1 attack, which is a nice bonus.

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 116 SDef / 140 Spd
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Suggested by pocket. Rotom-W was a very good addition to this team. It checks walls such as Skarmory, Jellicent, Vaporeon, and Donphan, etc. I chose Thunderbolt over WoW or Twave because i've been in situations where i was just getting stalled out because i kept Volt Switching. Volt Switch is obvious, to switch into a sweeper or just finish off something. HP grass takes care of any gastrodon that dares challenge Rotom. Hydro Pump is its main stab move, and with all the rain pouring down on the metagame, it does some damage. The EV set up(again thanks to pocket) allows it to survive 1 Thunder from a Thundurus, which allows it to take it out easily.Overall its a great pokemon for the team.

Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- ExtremeSpeed

My first sweeper for the team.One of the best sweepers in the metagame. Idk why i dont see much of it on the ladder, but w/e. Adamant nature to give it that power boost which really matters. Dual Priority lucario is amazing. After one SD BP owns terrakions, gengars. Also if everything is set up and terrak doesnt have an air baloon it usually ohkos it. Extremespeed is for anything else such as Latios, starmies, etc. Close Combat is Lucario's stab move. However Gliscors or Landos are a major threat to lucario.

Dragonite (F) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- ExtremeSpeed
- Fire Punch

Dragonite is the 2nd sweeper of the team. I usually get a free dragon dance in because of multiscale. Lum Berry also helps to either recover from an outrage fatigue or take t-waves from ferrothorn like a pro. Fire punch OHKO's ferros after +1 and 2HKO's skarmories.
Extremespeed provides extremely (see what i did there) useful priority that takes out several cs revenge killers. Overall it is probably the MVP(most valued pokemon) of the team besides deo d.

Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Bug Bite

An amazing revenge killer along with an amazing sweeper. After one SD Scizor tears through teams and whatnot. Swords Dance for the set up for a win. BP for revenge killing and sweeping purposes. Bug Bite works very well on Scizor, considering it OHKOs a ton of defensive pokes such as vaporeon, poli, donphan, etc. Superpower is used to kill other Scizors, and also destroy ferrothorns. Along with that it also puts a dent in skarmorys. EV spread provides power, bulk, and a little bit of speed which is needed to outspeed some walls.

Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Very useful spin blocker. Gengar has very good speed and amazing power. Sometimes it does the sweeping of a team.Sub/Pain Split allows Gengar to cripple walls. Life Orb allows Gengar to pack a punch to several pokes. Its an unexpected combination but its an EXTREMELY useful one.Shadow Ball is Gengar's stab move, while focus miss is there to beat heatrans, ferros, skarmories, ttars, etc(if it hits). EV spread utilizes gengars strengths,and black sludge helps recover substitute damage.

Conclusion: Overall this is like mostwanted and montagua's teams, but most HO teams are like those nowadays. I realize that if gengar goes down my team becomes pretty gliscor weak. Gengar also gets killed by starmies, so i need some suggestions to fix that. Any constructive criticism or suggestions will be MUCH appreciated. Thank you for going through my RMT!

Edits in Blue

Removed pokes

...

CedOmega · Jul 5th, 2012, 11:33:18 AM

Look like a pretty cool Sand team, Elephant. I love that T-tar & Gengar have great synergy together. It seems that my only suggestion would be to change SuperPower @ Scizor to BrickBreak. You could easily set up & KO anything just as fast w/out the drop in Attack & Defense. It'll also allow Scizor to pose an even bigger threat to opposing teams. Other than that, I see nothing else that I'd suggest changing. Good luck w/ your team. :)

prem · Jul 5th, 2012, 11:37:40 AM

just saying you will probably want to add more descriptions or it might get locked despite looking pretty nice

Bribery · Jul 5th, 2012, 11:41:45 AM

Very solid team. I would lower Scizor's speed to about 24 and add the remaining to HP. This lets you be slower than Skarmory so that it can't Roost off Superpower.

You could use Ice Beam over Magic Coat on Deoxys to help check Gliscor and Dragons.

Elephant · Jul 5th, 2012, 12:50:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Kenpach2

http://http://www.smogon.com/forums/....php?t=3468927nice offensive based team btw i suggest you get pusruit on you tyranitar for chasing run away ghosts and spinners. can you please check my teamhttp://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3468927

i had pursuit but it usually kept me in a guessy situation. i lost many battles because i guessed wrong on a switch. so i just decided eq, but i'll try out pursuit again

Quote:

Very solid team. I would lower Scizor's speed to about 24 and add the remaining to HP. This lets you be slower than Skarmory so that it can't Roost off Superpower.

You could use Ice Beam over Magic Coat on Deoxys to help check Gliscor and Dragons.

deoxys is mainly a suicide hazard poke. taunt is used 2 check sub gliscors. and for dragons i have 3 revenge killers if anything goes wrong. but thanks for the suggestion. however i will try it out.

Sayonara · Jul 5th, 2012, 2:13:24 PM

Hi, Elephant! Nice team. Well first off, I notice a weakness to entry hazards like Stealth Rock, since you're using Dragonite without Rapid Spin support. In those circumstances, Dragonite becomes less useful, so I would replace it by a Dragon Dance Haxorus. Haxorus is more powerful and faster, and it isn't weak to Stealth Rock. Haxorus is a beast on Heavy Offensive teams, as its raw power is devastating, especially if you have Stealth Rock and a couple of layers of Spikes up. After its rampage, your opponent's team will usually considerably be weakened, to the point where your other sweepers (Lucario, Scizor, Tyranitar) can easily finish off your opponent. Dragon Dance is the crux of the set, boosting Haxorus' Attack and Speed stat. Outrage coming off a 147 base attack is extremely powerful, and it gets a STAB boost. Earthquake hits Steel-types who are in Haxorus' way, and thanks to its ability, Mold Breaker, opponents like Gengar and Rotom-W get hit by the move, which kills them. Superpower is a final coverage move that lets you get past Ferrothorn and Air Balloon Heatran. Lum Berry cures status, which prevents confusion due to Outrage. A last change I would recommend is Hidden Power [Fire] instead of Magic Coat. Hidden Power Fire nails stuff like Scizor and Ferrothorn, while Magic Coat is rather useless, since you're already using Taunt. Cool team, and good luck! :D

Elephant · Jul 5th, 2012, 3:06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Expert Physics

Hi, Elephant! Nice team. Well first off, I notice a weakness to entry hazards like Stealth Rock, since you're using Dragonite without Rapid Spin support. In those circumstances, Dragonite becomes less useful, so I would replace it by a Dragon Dance Haxorus. Haxorus is more powerful and faster, and it isn't weak to Stealth Rock. Haxorus is a beast on Heavy Offensive teams, as its raw power is devastating, especially if you have Stealth Rock and a couple of layers of Spikes up. After its rampage, your opponent's team will usually considerably be weakened, to the point where your other sweepers (Lucario, Scizor, Tyranitar) can easily finish off your opponent. Dragon Dance is the crux of the set, boosting Haxorus' Attack and Speed stat. Outrage coming off a 147 base attack is extremely powerful, and it gets a STAB boost. Earthquake hits Steel-types who are in Haxorus' way, and thanks to its ability, Mold Breaker, opponents like Gengar and Rotom-W get hit by the move, which kills them. Superpower is a final coverage move that lets you get past Ferrothorn and Air Balloon Heatran. Lum Berry cures status, which prevents confusion due to Outrage. A last change I would recommend is Hidden Power [Fire] instead of Magic Coat. Hidden Power Fire nails stuff like Scizor and Ferrothorn, while Magic Coat is rather useless, since you're already using Taunt. Cool team, and good luck! :D

i'll definitely try out haxorus. but as for hp fire deo d, it doesnt have enough sp atk 2 do a good amount of damage. and like i said for deo, magic coat protects against other deo ds and taunt users who are faster.

mostwanted · Jul 5th, 2012, 3:07:53 PM

Please increase your descriptions otherwise I would have to lock this thread.

**Harsha** · Jul 5th, 2012, 11:26:38 PM

yo,

this is a pretty solid heavy offense teams that sticks to the archetype of teams like apocalypse and it's obviously pretty solid. some things you should note are that you point out gengar is your spinblocker -- however with all of the changes in the metagame, starmie, tentacruel, forretress -- pretty much all of the "good" rapid spin users -- can break gengar down with ease. while you're using choice scarf tyranitar, that only really solves your starmie weakness. additionally, without rotom-w, this team becomes much weaker to rain stall than most heavy offense teams. like some others have suggested, i think the use of a bulkier scizor set would be extremely effective; an ev spread of 248 HP / 64 Atk / 196 SpD would really help out with longevity, and with a change of item to iron plate and superpower to roost, you suddenly become much more durable. this helps with most stall teams, and it also allows you to sponge draco meteor from latios like it is nothing.

while extremespeed does hit a lot of things that dragonite cannot outspeed, there's literally no solution to a well played tentacruel. for this reason, earthquake is probably warranted a spot over extremespeed, though i would agree that extremespeed is a very good move. if you aren't willing to go that route, another alternative could be the haxorus suggestion that someone posted earlier with a spread of 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe and an adamant nature with the moveset of swords dance, dragon dance, outrage, and earthquake. this wrecks stall teams that could be troublesome, but dragon dance can also be used to great effect because it ruins offensive teams as well. sorry if you had any problems reading this, as my current keyboard is rather awful. anyways, good team man. i hope i helped out!

Elephant · Jul 5th, 2012, 11:33:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Harsha

yo,

this is a pretty solid heavy offense teams that sticks to the archetype of teams like apocalypse and it's obviously pretty solid. some things you should note are that you point out gengar is your spinblocker -- however with all of the changes in the metagame, starmie, tentacruel, forretress -- pretty much all of the "good" rapid spin users -- can break gengar down with ease. while you're using choice scarf tyranitar, that only really solves your starmie weakness. additionally, without rotom-w, this team becomes much weaker to rain stall than most heavy offense teams. like some others have suggested, i think the use of a bulkier scizor set would be extremely effective; an ev spread of 248 HP / 64 Atk / 196 SpD would really help out with longevity, and with a change of item to iron plate and superpower to roost, you suddenly become much more durable. this helps with most stall teams, and it also allows you to sponge draco meteor from latios like it is nothing.

while extremespeed does hit a lot of things that dragonite cannot outspeed, there's literally no solution to a well played tentacruel. for this reason, earthquake is probably warranted a spot over extremespeed, though i would agree that extremespeed is a very good move. if you aren't willing to go that route, another alternative could be the haxorus suggestion that someone posted earlier with a spread of 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe and an adamant nature with the moveset of swords dance, dragon dance, outrage, and earthquake. this wrecks stall teams that could be troublesome, but dragon dance can also be used to great effect because it ruins offensive teams as well. sorry if you had any problems reading this, as my current keyboard is rather awful. anyways, good team man. i hope i helped out!

i agree with the gengar part, these pokes take out gengar easily. TTar however hits tentacruels with EQ. bulky scizor i will definitely try out, because a lot of people are suggesting it and im thinking it would be a good idea also. EQ over ES on dnite is kind of touchy but i will test it. If it doesnt work out i will also test the haxorus set. thank you for the suggestions i'll surely think of them.

LucaroarkZ · Jul 5th, 2012, 11:45:00 PM

When I looked at this team, what immediately came to mind is that you're using SubDisable Gengar. I understand how it's theoretically a very potent set, but SubDisable is incredibly predictable and way too easy to work around. For this reason, I recommend either a SubSplit or Sub+3 attacks Gengar. I'm also gonna go ahead and support the previous suggestions of using Haxorus, but I strongly favor Expert Physics's set as you should be able to get by Skarmory using some combination of strategies with Gengar and Lucario. Your current Scizor set is ok, but I recommend running no more than 36 Speed EVs because 36 is the maximum number of Speed EVs possible to still be slower than Skarmory, which is very useful as this prevents it from Roosting against Superpower.

This next bit is more or less me being picky, but I think you could use Night Shade > Magic Coat on Deoxys-D. Magic Coat is not that useful, and Night Shade gives it a way of dealing damage so it's not complete Taunt bait.

Good luck!

Sets:

...

Elephant · Jul 5th, 2012, 11:59:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat LucaroarkZ

When I looked at this team, what immediately came to mind is that you're using SubDisable Gengar. I understand how it's theoretically a very potent set, but SubDisable is incredibly predictable and way too easy to work around. For this reason, I recommend either a SubSplit or Sub+3 attacks Gengar. I'm also gonna go ahead and support the previous suggestions of using Haxorus, but I strongly favor Expert Physics's set as you should be able to get by Skarmory using some combination of strategies with Gengar and Lucario. Your current Scizor set is ok, but I recommend running no more than 36 Speed EVs because 36 is the maximum number of Speed EVs possible to still be slower than Skarmory, which is very useful as this prevents it from Roosting against Superpower.

This next bit is more or less me being picky, but I think you could use Night Shade > Magic Coat on Deoxys-D. Magic Coat is not that useful, and Night Shade gives it a way of dealing damage so it's not complete Taunt bait.

Good luck!

Sets:

...

im thinking of replacing gengar with a choice scarf chandelure. beats all threatening rapid spinners except tentacruel which ttar if for. also, u have to see magic coat in action to understand its usefulness. but im definitely doin haxorus now considering all the suggestions

**Pocket** · Jul 6th, 2012, 3:08:39 AM

On teams like these, Scarfers are bad choices, since they present opportunities for the opponent to set up a sweep - and you have no defense to fall back on. Rather than Scarfers, powerful LO-boosted priorities or naturally faster mons are the way to go.

That said, I would replace Scarf Tar for Rotom-W. Rotom-W provides you with a great switch-in to Spinners, such as Starmie, Donphan, and Tentacruel. They become liabilities, providing free switch-ins for Rotom-W and forfeiting momentum as Rotom-W Volt Switches out to establish a favorable match-up for your offensive team. Rotom-W also comes in handy against Gliscor and to a lesser extent Mamoswine. Thunder Wave / Wisp is a good way to put a stopper on Latias, Virizion, etc, but most of the time Rotom-W would be Volt Switching out to maintain the upper edge. HP Grass prevents Gastrodon from stopping Rotom-W's Volt Switch shenanigans (50% min, 2HKO with Rocks).

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Modest | 252 HP / 140 SpA / 116 SpD
~ Volt Switch
~ Hydro Pump
~ HP Grass
~ Thunder Wave / Will-O-Wisp

With Rotom-W, you have little reason to use Scarf Chandelure; I'd revert back to Gengar for spin-blocking purposes. I actually agree with LucaroarkZ - Substitute | Shadow Ball | Focus Blast | Pain Split / Hypnosis / Destiny Bond | @ Life Orb Gengar are particularly lethal. Now that TTar's gone, Gengar can hold Life Orb without killing itself. And Disable is much too predictable and easily manipulated.

Alternatively, you may want to consider using Bulk Up Acrobatics Tornadus-Therian over Gengar for a Pokemon that can revenge Starmie, opposing Gengar, Latios, etc without utilizing weaker priority moves.

BU Acrobatics Tornadus-T

By removing Tyranitar, you can actually make use of Dragonite's MultiScale. I would keep Dragonite, because it comes in handy for checking Sun teams / Volcarona. You may consider attaching Life Orb to enhance Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed's revenge-killing capabilities. Even with Life Orb, Dragonite would still have MultiScale intact to get up that free DD, and the power boost is significant.

Elephant · Jul 6th, 2012, 9:44:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Pocket

On teams like these, Scarfers are bad choices, since they present opportunities for the opponent to set up a sweep - and you have no defense to fall back on. Rather than Scarfers, powerful LO-boosted priorities or naturally faster mons are the way to go.

That said, I would replace Scarf Tar for Rotom-W. Rotom-W provides you with a great switch-in to Spinners, such as Starmie, Donphan, and Tentacruel. They become liabilities, providing free switch-ins for Rotom-W and forfeiting momentum as Rotom-W Volt Switches out to establish a favorable match-up for your offensive team. Rotom-W also comes in handy against Gliscor and to a lesser extent Mamoswine. Thunder Wave / Wisp is a good way to put a stopper on Latias, Virizion, etc, but most of the time Rotom-W would be Volt Switching out to maintain the upper edge. HP Grass prevents Gastrodon from stopping Rotom-W's Volt Switch shenanigans (50% min, 2HKO with Rocks).

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Modest | 252 HP / 140 SpA / 116 SpD
~ Volt Switch
~ Hydro Pump
~ HP Grass
~ Thunder Wave / Will-O-Wisp

With Rotom-W, you have little reason to use Scarf Chandelure; I'd revert back to Gengar for spin-blocking purposes. I actually agree with LucaroarkZ - Substitute | Shadow Ball | Focus Blast | Pain Split / Hypnosis / Destiny Bond | @ Life Orb Gengar are particularly lethal. Now that TTar's gone, Gengar can hold Life Orb without killing itself. And Disable is much too predictable and easily manipulated.

Alternatively, you may want to consider using Bulk Up Acrobatics Tornadus-Therian over Gengar for a Pokemon that can revenge Starmie, opposing Gengar, Latios, etc without utilizing weaker priority moves.

BU Acrobatics Tornadus-T

By removing Tyranitar, you can actually make use of Dragonite's MultiScale. I would keep Dragonite, because it comes in handy for checking Sun teams / Volcarona. You may consider attaching Life Orb to enhance Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed's revenge-killing capabilities. Even with Life Orb, Dragonite would still have MultiScale intact to get up that free DD, and the power boost is significant.

hmmm... all these suggestions are really leaving me thinking. i'll try out rotom over ttar and a new gengar set. and the LO dnite is a bit iffy because there are always WoW pokes that can come in or twave ferro's can switch in on an outrage and just ruin the sweep. but thanks for the suggestion. i'll try it out anyway.

Elephant · Jul 13th, 2012, 11:08:49 AM

edits are in blue, i'm debating whether to use dnite or haxorus, and if i do use dnite i'm debating EQ over fire punch. also BUMP

Jul 5th, 2012, 9:59:27 AM	#1
Elephant Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 26	Avengers Assemble! Hi this is the Elephant. I'm new to smogon but i've played on its server pretty much all the time. So after numerous HO teams that i've tried to make this one finally did well. It got somewhere in the 1400s on the smogon server before the ladder reset. It could have gone farther, but what can ya do. So instead of complaining lets just get started! Sneak Peek: More in depth: Deoxys-D @ Rocky Helmet Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Spikes - Stealth Rock - Magic Coat - Taunt This pokemon almost always sets up a stealth rock. this is basicly montagua's set for deo d, but most people use this type of HO nowadays. anyway, still a really good set, magic coat for taunts from pokes such as aerodactyl, other deo ds, etc. Taunt helps shut down all other hazard threats such as ferrothorn, skarm, or even stuff like TR reuniclus, or a dragonite trying to set up. The EV spread provides bulk with speed to outspeed adamant mence, modest volcarona, all dnites. Rocky Helmet used to damage anything that literally touches it. If the poke that touches it has a LO it usually brings them down to 75% HP after 1 attack, which is a nice bonus. Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 HP / 116 SDef / 140 Spd Modest Nature - Thunderbolt - Volt Switch - Hydro Pump - Hidden Power [Grass] Suggested by pocket. Rotom-W was a very good addition to this team. It checks walls such as Skarmory, Jellicent, Vaporeon, and Donphan, etc. I chose Thunderbolt over WoW or Twave because i've been in situations where i was just getting stalled out because i kept Volt Switching. Volt Switch is obvious, to switch into a sweeper or just finish off something. HP grass takes care of any gastrodon that dares challenge Rotom. Hydro Pump is its main stab move, and with all the rain pouring down on the metagame, it does some damage. The EV set up(again thanks to pocket) allows it to survive 1 Thunder from a Thundurus, which allows it to take it out easily.Overall its a great pokemon for the team. Lucario (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Inner Focus EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Swords Dance - Bullet Punch - Close Combat - ExtremeSpeed My first sweeper for the team.One of the best sweepers in the metagame. Idk why i dont see much of it on the ladder, but w/e. Adamant nature to give it that power boost which really matters. Dual Priority lucario is amazing. After one SD BP owns terrakions, gengars. Also if everything is set up and terrak doesnt have an air baloon it usually ohkos it. Extremespeed is for anything else such as Latios, starmies, etc. Close Combat is Lucario's stab move. However Gliscors or Landos are a major threat to lucario. Dragonite (F) @ Lum Berry Trait: Multiscale EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Dragon Dance - Outrage - ExtremeSpeed - Fire Punch Dragonite is the 2nd sweeper of the team. I usually get a free dragon dance in because of multiscale. Lum Berry also helps to either recover from an outrage fatigue or take t-waves from ferrothorn like a pro. Fire punch OHKO's ferros after +1 and 2HKO's skarmories. Extremespeed provides extremely (see what i did there) useful priority that takes out several cs revenge killers. Overall it is probably the MVP(most valued pokemon) of the team besides deo d. Scizor (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Technician EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Swords Dance - Bullet Punch - Superpower - Bug Bite An amazing revenge killer along with an amazing sweeper. After one SD Scizor tears through teams and whatnot. Swords Dance for the set up for a win. BP for revenge killing and sweeping purposes. Bug Bite works very well on Scizor, considering it OHKOs a ton of defensive pokes such as vaporeon, poli, donphan, etc. Superpower is used to kill other Scizors, and also destroy ferrothorns. Along with that it also puts a dent in skarmorys. EV spread provides power, bulk, and a little bit of speed which is needed to outspeed some walls. Gengar (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Substitute - Pain Split - Shadow Ball - Focus Blast Very useful spin blocker. Gengar has very good speed and amazing power. Sometimes it does the sweeping of a team.Sub/Pain Split allows Gengar to cripple walls. Life Orb allows Gengar to pack a punch to several pokes. Its an unexpected combination but its an EXTREMELY useful one.Shadow Ball is Gengar's stab move, while focus miss is there to beat heatrans, ferros, skarmories, ttars, etc(if it hits). EV spread utilizes gengars strengths,and black sludge helps recover substitute damage. Conclusion: Overall this is like mostwanted and montagua's teams, but most HO teams are like those nowadays. I realize that if gengar goes down my team becomes pretty gliscor weak. Gengar also gets killed by starmies, so i need some suggestions to fix that. Any constructive criticism or suggestions will be MUCH appreciated. Thank you for going through my RMT! Edits in Blue Removed pokes ... E-Dubble (Tyranitar) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Sand Stream EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Jolly Nature - Stone Edge - Superpower - Crunch - Earthquake Last edited by Elephant; Jul 13th, 2012 at 11:07:56 AM.

Jul 5th, 2012, 11:33:18 AM	#2
CedOmega Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 214 Pokémon Masters: League Heroes@Facebook	Look like a pretty cool Sand team, Elephant. I love that T-tar & Gengar have great synergy together. It seems that my only suggestion would be to change SuperPower @ Scizor to BrickBreak. You could easily set up & KO anything just as fast w/out the drop in Attack & Defense. It'll also allow Scizor to pose an even bigger threat to opposing teams. Other than that, I see nothing else that I'd suggest changing. Good luck w/ your team. :) __________________ "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity; when many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." - Robert Pirsig (1948) "The fundamental cause of trouble in the world is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) "Do, or do not. There is no 'try'." - Yoda ('The Empire Strikes Back')

Jul 5th, 2012, 11:37:40 AM	#3
prem failed abortion Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,215 <@Sarenji> anyway i learned knitting pretty fast <@Sarenji> because im a woman Mentor	just saying you will probably want to add more descriptions or it might get locked despite looking pretty nice __________________ +Yamata no Orochi: I don't get pussy

Jul 5th, 2012, 11:41:45 AM	#4
Bribery Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 275 Toronto, Ontario	Very solid team. I would lower Scizor's speed to about 24 and add the remaining to HP. This lets you be slower than Skarmory so that it can't Roost off Superpower. You could use Ice Beam over Magic Coat on Deoxys to help check Gliscor and Dragons. __________________ Euphoria

Jul 5th, 2012, 11:45:00 PM	#11
LucaroarkZ Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,115 San Diego, CA	When I looked at this team, what immediately came to mind is that you're using SubDisable Gengar. I understand how it's theoretically a very potent set, but SubDisable is incredibly predictable and way too easy to work around. For this reason, I recommend either a SubSplit or Sub+3 attacks Gengar. I'm also gonna go ahead and support the previous suggestions of using Haxorus, but I strongly favor Expert Physics's set as you should be able to get by Skarmory using some combination of strategies with Gengar and Lucario. Your current Scizor set is ok, but I recommend running no more than 36 Speed EVs because 36 is the maximum number of Speed EVs possible to still be slower than Skarmory, which is very useful as this prevents it from Roosting against Superpower. This next bit is more or less me being picky, but I think you could use Night Shade > Magic Coat on Deoxys-D. Magic Coat is not that useful, and Night Shade gives it a way of dealing damage so it's not complete Taunt bait. Good luck! Sets: ... SubSplit Gengar: Gengar @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature -Substitute -Pain Split -Shadow Ball -Focus Blast Sub+3 attacks Gengar: Gengar @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature -Substitute -Shadow Ball -Focus Blast -Hidden Power Fire Haxorus set explained in Expert Physics's post __________________ "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman I am not lucaroark on Pokemon Showdown. I'm always on PS as Adamant Zoroark.

Jul 5th, 2012, 2:13:24 PM	#6
Sayonara into the new world Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 721	Hi, Elephant! Nice team. Well first off, I notice a weakness to entry hazards like Stealth Rock, since you're using Dragonite without Rapid Spin support. In those circumstances, Dragonite becomes less useful, so I would replace it by a Dragon Dance Haxorus. Haxorus is more powerful and faster, and it isn't weak to Stealth Rock. Haxorus is a beast on Heavy Offensive teams, as its raw power is devastating, especially if you have Stealth Rock and a couple of layers of Spikes up. After its rampage, your opponent's team will usually considerably be weakened, to the point where your other sweepers (Lucario, Scizor, Tyranitar) can easily finish off your opponent. Dragon Dance is the crux of the set, boosting Haxorus' Attack and Speed stat. Outrage coming off a 147 base attack is extremely powerful, and it gets a STAB boost. Earthquake hits Steel-types who are in Haxorus' way, and thanks to its ability, Mold Breaker, opponents like Gengar and Rotom-W get hit by the move, which kills them. Superpower is a final coverage move that lets you get past Ferrothorn and Air Balloon Heatran. Lum Berry cures status, which prevents confusion due to Outrage. A last change I would recommend is Hidden Power [Fire] instead of Magic Coat. Hidden Power Fire nails stuff like Scizor and Ferrothorn, while Magic Coat is rather useless, since you're already using Taunt. Cool team, and good luck! :D Haxorus @ Lum Berry \| Mold Breaker Adamant Nature \| 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe Dragon Dance \| Outrage \| Earthquake \| Superpower

Jul 5th, 2012, 3:07:53 PM	#8
mostwanted Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 938	Please increase your descriptions otherwise I would have to lock this thread.

Jul 5th, 2012, 11:26:38 PM	#9
Harsha Moderator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 938 Houston, TX Mentor	yo, this is a pretty solid heavy offense teams that sticks to the archetype of teams like apocalypse and it's obviously pretty solid. some things you should note are that you point out gengar is your spinblocker -- however with all of the changes in the metagame, starmie, tentacruel, forretress -- pretty much all of the "good" rapid spin users -- can break gengar down with ease. while you're using choice scarf tyranitar, that only really solves your starmie weakness. additionally, without rotom-w, this team becomes much weaker to rain stall than most heavy offense teams. like some others have suggested, i think the use of a bulkier scizor set would be extremely effective; an ev spread of 248 HP / 64 Atk / 196 SpD would really help out with longevity, and with a change of item to iron plate and superpower to roost, you suddenly become much more durable. this helps with most stall teams, and it also allows you to sponge draco meteor from latios like it is nothing. while extremespeed does hit a lot of things that dragonite cannot outspeed, there's literally no solution to a well played tentacruel. for this reason, earthquake is probably warranted a spot over extremespeed, though i would agree that extremespeed is a very good move. if you aren't willing to go that route, another alternative could be the haxorus suggestion that someone posted earlier with a spread of 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe and an adamant nature with the moveset of swords dance, dragon dance, outrage, and earthquake. this wrecks stall teams that could be troublesome, but dragon dance can also be used to great effect because it ruins offensive teams as well. sorry if you had any problems reading this, as my current keyboard is rather awful. anyways, good team man. i hope i helped out!

Jul 6th, 2012, 3:08:39 AM	#13
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,186 Bergenfield	On teams like these, Scarfers are bad choices, since they present opportunities for the opponent to set up a sweep - and you have no defense to fall back on. Rather than Scarfers, powerful LO-boosted priorities or naturally faster mons are the way to go. That said, I would replace Scarf Tar for Rotom-W. Rotom-W provides you with a great switch-in to Spinners, such as Starmie, Donphan, and Tentacruel. They become liabilities, providing free switch-ins for Rotom-W and forfeiting momentum as Rotom-W Volt Switches out to establish a favorable match-up for your offensive team. Rotom-W also comes in handy against Gliscor and to a lesser extent Mamoswine. Thunder Wave / Wisp is a good way to put a stopper on Latias, Virizion, etc, but most of the time Rotom-W would be Volt Switching out to maintain the upper edge. HP Grass prevents Gastrodon from stopping Rotom-W's Volt Switch shenanigans (50% min, 2HKO with Rocks). Rotom-W @ Leftovers Modest \| 252 HP / 140 SpA / 116 SpD ~ Volt Switch ~ Hydro Pump ~ HP Grass ~ Thunder Wave / Will-O-Wisp With Rotom-W, you have little reason to use Scarf Chandelure; I'd revert back to Gengar for spin-blocking purposes. I actually agree with LucaroarkZ - Substitute \| Shadow Ball \| Focus Blast \| Pain Split / Hypnosis / Destiny Bond \| @ Life Orb Gengar are particularly lethal. Now that TTar's gone, Gengar can hold Life Orb without killing itself. And Disable is much too predictable and easily manipulated. Alternatively, you may want to consider using Bulk Up Acrobatics Tornadus-Therian over Gengar for a Pokemon that can revenge Starmie, opposing Gengar, Latios, etc without utilizing weaker priority moves. BU Acrobatics Tornadus-T Tornadus-T @ Flying Gem Jolly \| 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe ~ Bulk Up ~ Acrobatics ~ Superpower ~ Taunt / U-turn NOTE: Heat Wave may be an option with Naive nature to roast Skarmory By removing Tyranitar, you can actually make use of Dragonite's MultiScale. I would keep Dragonite, because it comes in handy for checking Sun teams / Volcarona. You may consider attaching Life Orb to enhance Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed's revenge-killing capabilities. Even with Life Orb, Dragonite would still have MultiScale intact to get up that free DD, and the power boost is significant. __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!

Jul 13th, 2012, 11:08:49 AM	#15
Elephant Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 26	edits are in blue, i'm debating whether to use dnite or haxorus, and if i do use dnite i'm debating EQ over fire punch. also BUMP