|
|||||||
|
|
Thread Tools |
Jul 14th, 2012, 7:48:04 PM
|
#1 |
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 453
|
Celebi (Analysis) [QC 0/3]
This is gonna be long...isn't it...
 Celebi [Overview]
name: Defensive move 1: Giga Drain move 2: Recover move 3: Perish Song / Thunder Wave move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Fire item: Leftovers nature: Calm evs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 152 SpD / 36 Spe [SET COMMENTS]
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
[SET] name: Nasty Plot move 1: Nasty Plot move 2: Giga Drain move 3: Hidden Power Fire move 4: Earth Power / Psychic / Recover nature: Timid evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS]
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
[SET] name: Offensive move 1: Leaf Storm move 2: Hidden Power Fire move 3: Earth Power / Psychic move 4: U-turn / Thunder Wave / Recover item: Life Orb nature: Modest evs: 176 HP / 152 SpA / 180 Spe [SET COMMENTS]
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
[SET] name: Choice move 1: Leaf Storm move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice move 3: Earth Power / Psychic move 4: U-turn / Trick item: Choice Scarf nature: Timid evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS]
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
[SET] name: Baton Pass move 1: Baton Pass move 2: Calm Mind / Nasty Plot move 3: Giga Drain move 4: Substitute / Hidden Power Fire item: Leftovers nature: Calm evs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe [SET COMMENTS]
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
[Other Options]
[Checks and Counters]
all done!
...
...
Last edited by JellyOs; Aug 3rd, 2012 at 11:38:00 PM. |
|
|
Jul 16th, 2012, 12:15:45 PM
|
#2 |
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,077
PA
|
While I haven't had experience with Celebi in BW2, I have used it a ton before. The defensive set needs some work done to the movepool, remember that defensive set is for defensive and stall teams. Considering that, perish song needs a good mention in the defensive set, maybe even a primary slash, perish song is critical to take out the last pokemon vs stall and the common CM-Jirachi and Reunicles. Considering that, I believe the move pool should look like this:
-giga drain -recovery -HP fire / thunder wave -perish song (maybe leech seed here to) Stealth rock should be AC at best, you really should have something else that has it, and toxic is poo. Reflect needs mention somewhere. I know the defensive set can make use of it, buts its definitely at least OO.
__________________
I am not Scarf Wynaut on Pokemon Showdown. I am PrincesoBubblegum |
|
|
|
Jul 16th, 2012, 12:33:41 PM
|
#3 |
|
Cause you keep me coming back for more
 
|
I think the Offensive set can run a plain 4HP/252SpAtk/252Spe set, because with my experience with it, you usually come in, fire off some Leaf Storms, and U-turn out. The lack of power is very noticeable sometimes.
Also mention that Dugtrio and Magnezone are great partners for Celebi; they can demolish many of it's greatest threats: Scizor, Heatran, Lati@s etc.
__________________
Stuff (Click!):  l  l  l  l  l  l  l  l  l  VM me for an OU / LC team rate! MURKBRO MAFIA  |
|
|
|
Jul 16th, 2012, 3:08:21 PM
|
#4 |
|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 453
|
I haven't had a terrible amount of experience with defensive Celebi, do thanks for the input. I'll make the last slot Perish Song / HP Fire / Leech Seed. I'll remove Toxic, but I think Thunder Wave is pretty much necessary. And Dual Screens is OO!
@Electrolyte... Are you using Modest because the power drop is pretty much minute...the only thing is speed, but I liked the old Navi spread but just renamed the set and moved some stuff around |
|
|
|
Jul 16th, 2012, 3:11:44 PM
|
#5 |
|
I put the milk in first
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,062
Akron, Ohio
|
Put Stealth Rocks slashed with t-wave on defensive celebi and remove toxic. Make the move 4 slashes HP fire / HP ice / u-turn (no particular order).
Also slash HP ice with HP fire on the nasty plot set.
__________________
<20:04> uragg there is no better feeling <20:04> uragg than moisturizing your legs <20:04> uragg when they are ashy |
|
|
|
Jul 16th, 2012, 3:27:29 PM
|
#6 |
|
If just for one day I wish I could disappear
  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,368
Too close to see
|
Perish Song on the Defensive Set. Where is U-Turn on this Set ? ...
|
|
|
Jul 16th, 2012, 3:36:27 PM
|
#7 |
|
Cause you keep me coming back for more
|
ah, no, I run Naive. But yeah, the main idea here is speed.
Seconding with Ojama's idea of uturn. Uturn is generally a great move for all of Celebi's sets because of NC.
__________________
Stuff (Click!): l l l l l l l l l VM me for an OU / LC team rate!MURKBRO MAFIA |
|
|
|
Jul 16th, 2012, 5:26:49 PM
|
#8 |
|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 453
|
[SET]
name: Defensive move 1: Thunder Wave / Stealth Rock move 2: Recover move 3: Giga Drain move 4: U-turn / Perish Song / Hidden Power Fire item: Leftovers nature: Calm evs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 152 SpD / 36 Spe Okay so from all the opinions I've gathered that this is pretty much the general consensus. Lamppost, I've switched out HP Ice for Perish Song because HP Ice will most likely see less use. I'll definitely AC it though. |
|
|
|
Jul 17th, 2012, 9:22:04 AM
|
#9 | |
|
I'm a macrophage
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,849
|
A couple of small concerns before I discuss with the other QC members in more detail:
- Tinkerbell and the Offensive LO set look really similar, IMO. The only difference is that one uses Thunder Wave while the other uses an attacking move or U-turn. I know they play differently, but are they similar enough to attempt a merge? - While Scarf Celebi seems to have an interesting niche, Specs does not. Leaf Storm coming off 448 Special Attack seems okay... if not every Pokemon and mother resisted the crap out of it. I'm going take SDS's reasoning against CB Landorus here, basically if you want to be a good Choice Bander, you should be able to spam your "killer move" without too much hesitation. Celebi's "killer move", while there aren't anything common that are immune to it (except Afrobull), so many things 4x resist you may as well say that they're immune to it. So yeah, scrap Specs please.
__________________
Whatevs sig. QC member for OU and Ubers, VM me for a look at your analysis. Just make sure it's good. Also, if you want me to rate your team (OU/DW OU/Ubers), give me a VM. If I don't rate it, it's either 1) it's so shit it's too much trouble, 2) I'm busy, or 3) the team is fantastic and I have nothing I can suggest to you. You should be able to recognise which one. Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 17th, 2012, 10:10:16 AM
|
#10 |
|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 453
|
I really don't think merging Offensive (formerly Navi) and Tinkerbell is the best idea. They play really quite differently, one focusing on dealing damage and the other helping patch teams' weaknesses.
I'll scrap Specs too. I kept pretty much the old Choice set after talking to AG wether to scrap it completely or not. I'll make these changes when I get home from work today. |
|
|
|
Jul 31st, 2012, 2:01:35 AM
|
#11 | |
|
Delena 4ever
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,080
In Love
|
O.k this needs a bit of QC input, so im posting my opinions, and hopefully this will encourage other QC members to post there opinions as well.
Firstly, I support shrang, in fusing Tinkerbell and "Offensive". They really are similar both in playstyle and in practise. Jelly0s, I read your most recent post RE on the merging, and its really not convicing me: " Quote:
Basically, if you actually want to convince me (and shrang) that they play differently, you really need to better explain the differences, because I don't see them, shrang doesn't see them, and your (no offence), rather vague justification as to why they should be seperate, really needs a better explanation lol. Regardless, even if they don't get merged, I'm going to go through all the sets and make notes. Tinkerbell -Magnezone is a good teammate, but I want to see other examples of teammates. For example HEATRAN which still has that great synergy, maybe something like Conkeldurr or something that enjoys the paralysis support that Thinkerbell offers, things like that. I know that its a skeleton, but I do want to see more examples of teammates you might use with Celebi (this kinda goes for all sets). Nasty Plot -Don't bring up Solarbeam in AC, I don't know why you listed it, just.... don't mention it. -Get rid of Energy Ball and Water Pulse mentions. Defensive -I don't like the slash order on the set, just for starters. Personally, id have my grass STAB listed first, then Recover second, and then your utility moves in slots three and four. I also kinda want Perish Song given a greater mention. Its one of the moves that sets Celebi apart from other grass types, its excellent on defensive teams (which your using Celebi on), and its one of the reasons that I would actually use Celebi, on a team of mine. Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, I can run anything with those moves (like, for example, Blissey), but perish Song is what gives Celebi its niche (IMO), so I kinda want to see that reflected in the analysis. In terms of layout I would prefer... name: Defensive move 1: Giga Drain move 2: Recover move 3: Perish Song / Thunder Wave move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Fire item: Leftovers nature: Calm evs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 152 SpD / 36 Spe with Stealth Rock in AC (or you can slash it in the final slot). Obviously this is heavily subject to change, as well as personal opinion, but if I was wanting to use defensive Celebi, id be wanting to make use of Perish Song above all else. Offensive and scarf sets are fine, I do know what you want to mean when you say stuff like "offensive spread" and "bulky spread" in the AC section, and then make no mention of the EV spread you are supporting. In General Can you flesh this out a little more please, there are a number of things that are unclear, or something, and id appreciate peace of mind that a good amount teammates will be listed. I also want to see Volt Turn brought up somewhere, since Celebi isn't actually that bad on Volt Turn if you have a slot for it. Set Order (IMO) should be something like Offensive Nasty Plot Defensive Scarf
__________________
 
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 31st, 2012, 10:02:32 AM
|
#12 | |
|
Like a Pope
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,354
The Lonely Tyrant Did Walk Alone...
|
ginganinja stole most of my thoughts, though I'm going to post some things myself on what to suggest for this fine piece of celery.
Tinkerbell I honestly agree - Offensive and Tinkerbell can be merged together. When you think about it: - Leaf Storm - Hidden Power Fire - Earth Power / Psychic - U-turn / Thunder Wave / Recover So obviously Hidden Power Ice / Stealth Rock can be mentioned in AC. I think HP Fire is one of those necessary evils unless you have Magnezone as a teammate or you're running a Drizzle / Rain Dance team. Definitely mention Magnezone and Heatran as partners - Magnezone does an awesome job handling the problematic Pokemon such as Scizor and Ferrothorn (if Celebi opts not to use HP Fire) while Heatran provides a defensive combination and can lay Stealth Rock too. Heatran does a nice job putting the hurt on other Steel-types while Celebi nukes the bulky Water- / Ground -/ Rock-types that plague Heatran. Dugtrio can be mentioned to eliminate Tyranitar and Metagross while Scizor can be mentioned to make Weavile and Tyranitar hell to use against Celebi. See what ginganinja means? I just mentioned 4 different teammates that can possibly work with Celebi. You only mentioned two of them - Scarf Terrakion as one of them. Fuck, you mentioned Tentacruel on the Defensive set - IMO it works nicely here. Nasty Plot Definitely agreeing with ging on removing the Solarbeam / Energy Ball / Water Pulse mentions. WRT Energy Ball - Giga Drain only loses in base power by 5 and Energy Ball's SpD drop rate is merely 10%. There are simply other ways of bypassing Chansey / Blissey than relying on Energy Ball's SpD drop. Definitely mention Magnezone / Heatran as partners - Heatran has the added benefit of trolling most Blissey sets thanks to access to Taunt, should you opt to use it. Magma Storm Heatran does a pretty nice job of putting Blissey in a checkmate position if it lacks Seismic Toss. Scizor might do a slightly better job of trapping Chansey and Blissey than Dugtrio since it can threaten it with STAB U-turn / Superpower or Pursuit the possible switch-out. Scizor can also prevent Mamoswine from ruining your day with its STAB Ice Shard. Tentacruel can help make it interesting with Toxic Spikes, too, like you mentioned before. In fact, Heatran + Tentacruel + Celebi isn't -too bad- of an offensive / defensive core, and Heatran can use Magma Storm + Taunt to cripple Blissey and Chansey right away and proceed to Earth Power / continuously use Magma Storm since Toxic Spikes mean Blissey is automatically poisoned. Also mention that Tentacruel not only helps remove Stealth Rock and Spikes, but also Toxic Spikes without having to spin which can be a nuisance with your sweep. Defensive I 100% agree with ging - Perish Song is huge on Celebi. It prevents it from being outclassed by other bulky Grass-types or other teammates that can be used alongside a stallish / bulky offensive team. Perish Song cripples teams that could otherwise be hazardous to teams - think stuff like SmashPass. Perish Song is nifty for preventing Pokemon from setting up on Celebi too. Gyarados certainly won't like that it's on a timer. I would put the set that ginganinja suggested above. Nothing on Choice. I think the set order should be different, though. This might be just me, but I value defensive Celebi a little more than Nasty Plot. This might be because I look at Nasty Plot Celebi now and notice how it's trolled by Tornadus-T especially and Thundurus-T to an extent, and Pokemon such as Mamoswine are kind of on the rise and Scizor has always been a common pest. It still is obviously a solid set, and could be argued above Defensive still. - Tinkerbell - Defensive - Nasty Plot - Choice Also out of curiosity has anyone used SubSeed this gen or Leech Seed in general? It seems okay since Celebi draws in the #1 Pokemon that looks at 12% like nothing until it realizes the opponent heals for a good chunk of HP (Blissey).
__________________
Credits to Fatecrashers for the sexy avatar I wear! Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 31st, 2012, 10:29:07 AM
|
#13 |
|
King of Conquerors
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,613
Greece
|
Colonel M, i think that Leech Seed is huge garbage right now on Celebi. First of all, the number one switch-in to Celebi, Tornadus-T, dgaf about it. Also it is important to note why one would use Leech Seed. It is used for 2 reasons: recovery and crippling. Recover is 10 times better than Leech Seed at recovering, and Perish Song / T-Wave are 10 times better at crippling. You could say that Leech Seed is a middle ground between those 2 in one move, but Celebi wants reliable recovery in order to function properly on defensive sets, and in the offensive sets it already has huge 4 moveslot syndrome.
So, imo, Leech Seed is OO material at best.
__________________
|
|
|
|
Jul 31st, 2012, 6:12:04 PM
|
#14 |
|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 453
|
Okay so the general consensus seems to be to merge the two, so I'll get to that.
I'll flesh this out and add / remove the mentions. I put in Solarbeam because it's a good STAB for Sun, but I'll take it out. Defensive got a lot of different opinions, so I didn't exactly know the general feeling about it. To clear it up, when I say "offensive spread" on an offensive set, in example, it means I'll explain how the spread is offensive then put a bulkier spread in AC. I'll put these in on Friday, because I'm kinda crunched for time right now. (IRL; pre-college) |
|
|
|
Jul 31st, 2012, 6:45:42 PM
|
#15 |
|
Bakuman ;<
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,160
Bergenfield
|
100% what ginganinja & Colonel_M said.
Reflect / Light Screen deserves an AC mention on the defensive set. Drop Worry Seed. OO mention Trick Room, which pairs well nicely with Healing Wish. Also I believe Celebi deserves a Baton Pass set, as it's a superb Baton Passer. The versatility of Celebi also makes this an unexpected set. name: Baton Pass move 1: Baton Pass move 2: Calm Mind / Nasty Plot move 3: Giga Drain move 4: Substitute / Hidden Power Fire item: Leftovers nature: Calm evs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe Set comments: ~ Calm Mind > Nasty Plot, since it is much easier to pass CM boosts than NP boosts. ~ 101 HP Sub makes Chansey / Blissey set-up fodder and protects the CM recipient on the turn of Baton Pass ~ Substitute also blocks Dragon Tail - Careful Dragonite's Dragon Tail does not break Celebi's Substitute. After 3 CMs, not even Rain Tank's Hurricane would break Celebi's Substitute most of the time. ~ Specially Defensive spread makes setting up CMs on special sweepers much easier. ~ HP Fire can be used over Substitute to take out Skarmory before it can phaze Celebi's special attack boosts. ~ Many Rain Pokemon are set-up fodder for Celebi AC mentions: ~ Thunder Wave gives it 25% fp chance of BP success against phazers, and it's a generally good utility move. ~ Earth Power to dispatch Heatran, which may phaze Celebi ~ 84 SpA to OHKO specially defensive Heatran with a +2 Earth Power or a physically defensive Skarmory with a +2 HP Fire ~ 72 Spe to beat Heatran to the punch. ~ Swords Dance & Seed Bomb / Zen Headbutt to pass Atk boosts ~ Magic Coat / Espeon to cockblock phazers ~ Recover to keep it healthy ~ Rain support is nice to ensure Leftovers recovery and halving Fire moves. Obviously Celebi wouldn't use HP Fire in this case. ~ Special sweepers that benefits from a few SpA boosts, such as Thundurus-T, Keldeo, Starmie, Latios, Volcarona. ~ Wish Passer / Heal Wisher, such as Jirachi to keep Celebi healthy. ~ Teammates that can deal with Scizor, PSong Celebi, Volcarona, and Tornadus. Heatran is a good answer to many of them; Scizor can Pursuit-trap Celebi / Tornadus; Jirachi is the best answer to Tornadus; Gyarados checks Scizor & Volcarona. PS @ alexwolf: Scizor forces Celebi to BP out, making it difficult to set up CMs / Nasty Plot.
__________________
Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! | Word of Wisdom for Trainers | Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!  Last edited by Pocket; Aug 3rd, 2012 at 3:39:10 PM. |
|
|
|
Jul 31st, 2012, 6:50:19 PM
|
#16 |
|
King of Conquerors
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,613
Greece
|
Just a small note, but why would you need teammates to deal with Scizor on the BP set? You have Baton Pass to escape from it anyway, and go to a Scizor check/counter.
__________________
|
|
|
|
Aug 3rd, 2012, 1:46:48 PM
|
#17 |
|
Quiet Thunder God
  
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,520
Izanagi
|
Ok so I went over Celebi with Eo earlier and we've got some conflicting opinions.
Set order: Defensive > Nasty Plot > Tinkerball/Offensive > Choice > BP.
Defensive: name: Defensive move 1: Giga Drain move 2: Recover move 3: Thunder Wave / Stealth Rock move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Fire / Psychic item: Leftovers nature: Bold evs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe Giga Drain & Recover are indispensable, Thunder Wave / SR are decent options depending on what kind of team you run. We added Psychic to the 4th slot because its useful against Tornadus-T / Thundurus-T switch ins, gets immediate damage on Breloom instead of wearing it down with Giga Drain, and it prevents you from being utterly walled from Dragon-types. The choice between Perish Song & Psychic was tough, but in the end we decided on Psychic. Perish should get a strong mention in AC though. Also mention a spread in AC that focuses on SpD to better deal with things like LO Starmie. Nasty Plot:
Offensive / Tinkerbell I agree with the other QC members. The Tinkerbell / Offensive sets should be merged. We decided that the final set should look something like this: - Leaf Storm - Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Psychic - Earth Power / U-turn - Thunder Wave / Recover nature: modest evs: 176 HP / 152 SpA / 180 Spe With SR in AC.
Choice
Baton Pass Mention Heatran as a top notch BP recipient. AC a 252hp/252spe spread so you can BP in the face of offensive threats.
__________________
Last edited by PK Gaming; Aug 3rd, 2012 at 9:44:59 PM. |
|
|
|
Aug 3rd, 2012, 3:52:09 PM
|
#18 |
|
Bakuman ;<
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,160
Bergenfield
|
PK Gaming, Celebi actually makes a great specially-defensive mon; with a specially-defensive spread, it can even tank hits from Specs Draco Meteor (62-73%) from Latios. It can also tank LO Ice Beams from Starmie all day (41-48%), given that hax does not strike. Same story for SpecsToed and Keldeo. Physically defensive Celebi would find itself dying to even Rain-boosted Water hits that it resists, let alone a super-effective hit.
It's unfortunate that Celebi cannot T-Wave Thundurus-T, cuz otherwise Celebi would be one of the best counter to it. However it can always 2HKO Thundurus with HP Ice after SR or after 1 LO recoil (45-53%). So it can certainly check Agility LO Thundurus-T and beat Sub NP Thudurus-T if it decides to Sub up first. Celebi would lose 1-vs-1 to NP + 3 Atks (if Thundurus-T manages to nab a Nasty Plot beforehand that is), but that's easily checked anyways. With Rain being the dominant force of the current metagame, it makes more sense to make Celebi specially-defensive. I'd also slash HP Ice instead of HP Fire to beat Thundurus-T, but Psychic pretty much 2HKOs Thundurus-T after SR, too.
__________________
Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! | Word of Wisdom for Trainers | Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official! Last edited by Pocket; Aug 3rd, 2012 at 4:08:24 PM. |
|
|
|
Aug 3rd, 2012, 9:40:22 PM
|
#19 |
|
Quiet Thunder God
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,520
Izanagi
|
You're right.
Specially Defensive Celebi is very useful for taking on some high caliber Special Attackers. Yet, at the same time Physically Defensive Celebi is also useful for checking strong physical attackers too. Both are equally effective sets that handle different set of threats in BW OU. We can't slash EV spreads so... So let's divide "defensive" set into 2 different sets. Physically Defensive & Specially Defensive. name: Physically Defensive move 1: Giga Drain move 2: Recover move 3: Thunder Wave move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Fire / Perish Song item: Leftovers nature: Bold evs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe name: Specially Defensive move 1: Giga Drain move 2: Recover move 3: Thunder Wave move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Ice / Perish Song item: Leftovers nature: Calm evs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 32 Spe The SpD set uses HP Ice, because like you say its useful for things like Thundurus-T / Tornadus-T, but it also lets you get a little bit of damage on Special Attacking Dragon-types (Lati-twins... which you now, sorta barely check?). HP Fire / Ice should get AC mentions in the Specially Defensive & Physically Defensive spread respectively. EDIT: Psychic goes in AC now. Stealth Rock too.
__________________
Last edited by PK Gaming; Aug 3rd, 2012 at 10:12:29 PM. |
|
|
|
Aug 3rd, 2012, 10:03:45 PM
|
#20 |
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 314
Looking For You
|
Shouldn't the specially defensive set be running 32 Spe since it doesn't have HP Fire lowering its IV?
|
|
|
|
Aug 3rd, 2012, 10:51:29 PM
|
#21 |
|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 453
|
I can't say I agree with two defensive sets. Same moves, item, similar spread, but opposite stat... Just doesn't seem like it would be worth a whole other set. Personally, a set comments stat spread of physically defensive on a main specially defensive seems good to me
|
|
|
|
Aug 3rd, 2012, 11:26:28 PM
|
#22 |
|
Bakuman ;<
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,160
Bergenfield
|
physically defensive and specially defensive Celebi counter different threats (although they may check similar threats), so I believe they warrant separate sets, as PK Gaming have suggested. Other QC members can weigh in on this, though.
Also just copy & paste my bullet points about BP Celebi - don't pick and choose. |
|
|
|
Aug 4th, 2012, 12:30:20 AM
|
#23 |
|
Agreeing with Pocket and PK; personally I find that the sets play really differently. Sure, you are supposed to be tanking hits, countering bulky Water-types, and then recovering, but the threats you check are so entirely different that imo having two sets to explain is best. You can't slash EV spreads, and both are pretty much equally good, so relegating one to the AC is questionable at best. Just to re-emphasize, physically defensive Celebi will not be tanking Specs Water moves nearly as well as specially defensive Celebi -- this is no good, considering Celebi is typically a team's best Water defense unless it packs an FWG core with Jellicent and Heatran (Jellicent takes the Water moves of course). Then again, physically defensive Celebi takes on threats such as Choice Scarf Terrakion much better, and it can sponge pretty effectively. Maybe the counters to the sets are the same (e.g. Tyranitar and stuff) but considering the fact that they counter completely different threats, I agree that we need two sets.
__________________
!!! |
|
|
|
Aug 9th, 2012, 11:38:45 AM
|
#24 |
|
The Baby Arcanine All Grown Up :')
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,892
Edmonton
|
Well it is possible to just make one of the two spreads an alternate EV spread. Then explain later on that SpD allows Celebi to take hits from the likes of Thun-T and Def allows Celebi to take hits from the likes of Conkeldurr and whatnot. However, it's not like SpD is worthless against physical attackers and Def is worthless against rain teams, it just makes it more difficult to take repeated abuse. I disagree with Harsha that they play a different style: they both sponge hits, disrupt opposing offensive threats, heal when necessary, help you pivot to a more powerful attacker etc. they just do it against different threats is all. HP Ice vs Fire argument doesn't really work that well because you can still run HP Ice on Def and hit a Thun-T or Tor-T on the switch-in.
It's also a lot more aesthetically pleasing to have one set than 2 sets with similar looking spreads. Keep in mind that the average player looks at analyses only for the moveset and exact numbers on the EV spread. I'm sure they can figure out that trying to eat repeated Keldeo Rain Boosted Hydro Pumps without SpD investment is a bad idea.
__________________
RAWRGRAWRAWWRARRWRAARGRAWWRAWWRAR      
|
|
|
|
Aug 13th, 2012, 6:03:44 PM
|
#25 |
|
breathes in shadow
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 750
|
name: Defensive
move 1: Giga Drain move 2: Recover move 3: Perish Song / Thunder Wave move 4: U-turn / Hidden Power Fire item: Leftovers nature: Calm evs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 152 SpD / 36 Spe imo on this set uturn is too good to be slashed. with its typing, reliable recovery, and nat cure, cele can shut down and force out so many pokes, particularly common waters, but at the same time it's helpless fodder for powerhouse dragons, torn-t, heatran, etc. uturn just builds momentum so easily off those ~guaranteed~ switch-outs, while also not making cele a liability for the plethora of dangerous mons that can indifferently come in for a free turn. not only that, cele's slow uturn really maximizes its potential as a special sponge by providing an amazing pivot for things like cm viriz and keldeo so that you can bring in a revenge killer unscathed. its slow uturn helps manage so many threats in general when you can crutch on those 100/100/100 defenses and just dgf and take w/e hit. so yea my two cents maybe consider slashing psong with hp fire, then acing twave.
__________________
who is this character |
|
|
«
Previous Thread
|
Next Thread
»
| Thread Tools | |
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 5:55:59 AM.
