(Ubers) Need Help With My First Ubers Team

Rigel · Aug 2nd, 2012, 1:57:55 AM

This isn't one of those RMTs where I just show off my team, I actually need help with teambuilding. All my questions are bolded

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Airlock

Naive 252 Speed / 252 Sp. Attack / 4 Attack
Outrage
Draco Meteor
V-Create
ExtremeSpeed

Amazing mixed attacker. I use Rayquaza to break walls, usually a Forretress that tries to set up entry hazards, allowing Garchomp and Kyogre to sweep. Even in the rain, V Create hits at max power thanks to Air Lock. Air Lock also shuts down the rare swift swimmers. Rayquaza is really only shut down by priority moves, since it's so frail, but usually the ExtremeSpeed/Ice Shard is obvious, so I can switch into Skarmory.
My question here is the EVs: I took them straight off the official analysis, but seeing as 3/4 of this Rayquaza's attacks are physical, should I max attack rather than special attack?

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Drizzle

Modest 252 Speed / 252 Sp. Attack
Water Spout
Surf
Thunder
Ice Beam

Standard Kyogre. After special walls have been taken out, Kyogre hits everything really hard. With only 90 base speed, however, other scarfers with higher speed like Palkia can come in and try to revenge with Thunder, which is why I have Garchomp. I just have to make sure the opponent doesn't have anything that can outspeed Kyogre before I try to sweep, because taking damage reduces the power of Water Spout.
Timid nature over Modest?

Lugia @ Leftovers
Multiscale (that's legal now right?)

Calm 252 HP / 252 Sp. Def
Thunderwave
Ice Beam
Whirlwind
Roost

No Defense investment because I want Lugia to take special hits as well as possible. It's not Lugia's job to take physical hits, so I don't keep him in to take them.
Thunderwave cripples practically everything, and Ice Beam hits the dragon types which are everywhere in Ubers. Whirlwind is there to stop a pokemon from setting up. I don't like dragon tail because it's blocked by subs
Suggestions are welcome here, but this set is working very well for me

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Sturdy

Impish 252 Def / 252 HP
Roost
Whirlwind
Spikes
Drill Peck

Similar to the Lugia situation, I only expect Skarmory to take physical hits. I switch Skarmory in on an Outrage and set up spikes. Drill Peck isn't used much, because it doesn't do much damage, but it's a reliable STAB move. I hate when my walls can't do anything back to attackers (like Chansey), and Skarmory can at least rack up damage with spikes.
This set works fine for me, but any suggestions are welcome

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Sand Veil (it's... whatever)

Adamant (Or should I go Jolly? I'm not sure if I need the extra power or speed more)
252 Attack 252 Speed
Outrage
Stone Edge
Dragon Claw
Earthquake

Garchomp comes in on the electric attacks aimed at half my team, hits back hard and fast, usually gets a KO or two per battle.
102 base speed is faster than practically every other dragon, aside from the Lati's, which are rare.

Deoxys-A @ Expert Belt
Pressure

Naughty (+Attack, -Sp. Def) 252 Speed / 252 Special Attack)
Extreme Speed
Superpower
Ice Beam
Thunder

Expert Belt is such a troll: I use a physical attack, the opponent, seeing no lefties or life orb, switches in a physical wall thinking I'm choiced, and they get hit with special attack the next turn. Deoxys always gets a few KO's.
Expert Belt is perfect for it's moveset.

Big Problems!
I have nothing that likes switching in on Ice type moves. I'm thinking Heatran or (lol) Cryogonal? If I bring one of those pokemon in, who should it replace?
If I need to sacrifice a pokemon to Darkrai's Dark Void, my team falls apart. Deoxys can only deal with Darkrai if they are both sent out at the same time. I have trouble picking sleep fodder.

Rigel · Aug 2nd, 2012, 2:02:25 AM

Got it, doing that right now

lousy918 · Aug 2nd, 2012, 3:24:46 AM

You are missing 4 evs on a lot of pokemon.

Rigel · Aug 2nd, 2012, 3:36:58 AM

I made use of them in the teambuilder, but I didn't bother posting them because they're pretty much insignificant.

nightwolf · Aug 2nd, 2012, 11:58:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Rigel

I made use of them in the teambuilder, but I didn't bother posting them because they're pretty much insignificant.

they're not insignificant as 4 ev's in one stat or the next can change a lot.

TIO · Aug 2nd, 2012, 3:36:17 PM

Sacrifice somebody who can afford to take a nap to deal with darkrai, namely one of your walls.

Keiran · Aug 2nd, 2012, 6:30:23 PM

You should run Jolly on Garchomp to outspeed Choice Scarf Palkia

TrollFreak · Aug 2nd, 2012, 8:01:59 PM

Hey Rigel, great team you got here, though it can be improved.

For one, your team has no way to break through Stall atm. So, while Mixed Quaza is powerful, using a Choice Band w/ Jolly > Mixed and Draco Meteor works wonders, as you easily 2HKO Groundon and Lugia after Stealth Rock(Groundon needs Spikes though) so stall is no longer a problem. Also, you 2HKO Dakrai with E-Speed, so you can easily check it after something has been put to sleep. Speaking of sleep, using Mono-Attacking Kyorge with 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SDef > Scarf one works, as you have something that not only can switch into Darkrai, Bliss/Chans no longer wall it, as you set up on them for days, and just use Rest when HP gets low. This also keeps Kyorge around longer, so you have something to switch into Ice-type attacks. On Garchomp, yes, just use Jolly, as you now outspeed Scarfers such as Palkia and Kyuem-White, making Garchomp a much more efficient revenge killer. Also, using Taunt > Drill Peck with 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD means you can stop opposing set up from Forry and Ferro with Taunt, as well as always survive SD Arceus's Brick Break, allowing you to phaze it out with Whirlwind. Plus, you gain more EVs in Special Defense, allowing you to tank Special Dragons attacks such as Palkia's Spacial Rend better.

From there, a couple of things bother me. For one, you don't have Stealth Rock, and without that, how do you expect to break down Pokemon such as Lugia or Groundon. Plus, Ho-Oh and Kyurem-White would walk all over your team without them. That, and everything on your team fears Kyorge, which is bad since its the #1 Pokemon in Ubers. As such, using Arceus-Grass > Deo-A works, as you get a Kyorge switch that can set up Stealth Rock, as well as deal with Groundon due to Grass Knot OHKOing. Plus, with Ice Beam, you can deal with Dragons such as Rayquaza and Salamence, so thats always welcome. That, and since you'll have both Stealth Rock and Spikes on the team, you'll need something for Spinners. As such, using Giratina-O > Lugia works, as you get something that checks SD Arceus along with Skarmory, checks Mewtwo and Deo-A with Shadow Sneak, and finally, you get something that keeps Rapid Spinners at bay, which is huge as they give you trouble by spinning away rocks.

So, in summary:

Choice Band > Mixed on Quaza

Mono-Attacking Kyorge > Scarf

Jolly > Adamant on Chomp

Taunt > Drill Peck + New EV Spread on Skarm

Arceus-Grass > Deo-A

Gira-O > Lugia

Sets

Good Luck with the team, hope I helped!

Rigel · Aug 3rd, 2012, 1:35:33 AM

Thanks TrollFreak! I'm definitely going to try out the sets you suggested. Skarmory really does need Taunt because I do get set up on, and my Garchomp was getting outspeed by Palkia/Dialga. Sleep Talk Kyogre seems like a good counter to Darkrai. Everything seems to make sense, although I have two points I would like to bring up. Most importantly, won't it be hard to spam V Create on Rayquaza with the speed drop? And I'm reluctant to give up Lugia, because it works wonders for me (And about that Multiscale bit: Paralysis from T-Wave allows Lugia to roost back up to Multiscale before getting hit), but I will give it a try.

TrollFreak · Aug 3rd, 2012, 1:47:38 AM

Quote:

Most importantly, won't it be hard to spam V Create on Rayquaza with the speed drop? And I'm reluctant to give up Lugia, because it works wonders for me (And about that Multiscale bit: Paralysis from T-Wave allows Lugia to roost back up to Multiscale before getting hit), but I will give it a try.

I'm gald you brought this up, the reason you use V-Create before Outrage is if you KO something with V-Create, you can switch out if a revenge killer such as Palkia or Garchomp come in or easily dent something without being locked in, where as with Outrage, if you KO something, you're easy to get picked off by revenge killers or Steel-type Pokemon such as Arceus-Steel and Ferro can easily phaze/burn/paralyze you or anything else, and you can't do anything since you're locked in to Outrage.

For point two, yes I know Lugia is a great Pokemon, but without Gira-O, you wouldn't have anything to keep entry hazards out of play, plus Mewtwo would be trouble some, especially if you switch it itno Ice Beam w/ Rocks up, as it 2HKOs. Gira-O can KO weakened Mewtwo or 2HKO them if they're at full HP, plus you have something that can smash Manaphy before it becomes to big a threat.

albinorhino · Aug 10th, 2012, 12:55:39 AM

ok so you should change rayquaza to choice band because with that set, all the attacks are like 1 time usage, hit hard and then get out, not sure about the EVs, cant really go wrong just make sure to max out speed and have a plus speed nature. For garchomp you definitely want to go jolly as there are TONS of scarf palkias out there and you dont want to get outsped with spacial rend/draco meteor. You want sub on Lugia, try twave sub toxic whirlwind. if you fear being taunted drop something for icebeam. Good luck

Aug 2nd, 2012, 6:30:23 PM	#7
Keiran Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 442 memory is ram	You should run Jolly on Garchomp to outspeed Choice Scarf Palkia __________________ http://i.imgur.com/V3gVE.png http://i.imgur.com/DtPw4.png

Aug 2nd, 2012, 8:01:59 PM	#8
TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,249 New York born, New York proud	Hey Rigel, great team you got here, though it can be improved. For one, your team has no way to break through Stall atm. So, while Mixed Quaza is powerful, using a Choice Band w/ Jolly > Mixed and Draco Meteor works wonders, as you easily 2HKO Groundon and Lugia after Stealth Rock(Groundon needs Spikes though) so stall is no longer a problem. Also, you 2HKO Dakrai with E-Speed, so you can easily check it after something has been put to sleep. Speaking of sleep, using Mono-Attacking Kyorge with 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SDef > Scarf one works, as you have something that not only can switch into Darkrai, Bliss/Chans no longer wall it, as you set up on them for days, and just use Rest when HP gets low. This also keeps Kyorge around longer, so you have something to switch into Ice-type attacks. On Garchomp, yes, just use Jolly, as you now outspeed Scarfers such as Palkia and Kyuem-White, making Garchomp a much more efficient revenge killer. Also, using Taunt > Drill Peck with 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD means you can stop opposing set up from Forry and Ferro with Taunt, as well as always survive SD Arceus's Brick Break, allowing you to phaze it out with Whirlwind. Plus, you gain more EVs in Special Defense, allowing you to tank Special Dragons attacks such as Palkia's Spacial Rend better. From there, a couple of things bother me. For one, you don't have Stealth Rock, and without that, how do you expect to break down Pokemon such as Lugia or Groundon. Plus, Ho-Oh and Kyurem-White would walk all over your team without them. That, and everything on your team fears Kyorge, which is bad since its the #1 Pokemon in Ubers. As such, using Arceus-Grass > Deo-A works, as you get a Kyorge switch that can set up Stealth Rock, as well as deal with Groundon due to Grass Knot OHKOing. Plus, with Ice Beam, you can deal with Dragons such as Rayquaza and Salamence, so thats always welcome. That, and since you'll have both Stealth Rock and Spikes on the team, you'll need something for Spinners. As such, using Giratina-O > Lugia works, as you get something that checks SD Arceus along with Skarmory, checks Mewtwo and Deo-A with Shadow Sneak, and finally, you get something that keeps Rapid Spinners at bay, which is huge as they give you trouble by spinning away rocks. So, in summary: Choice Band > Mixed on Quaza Pros: 2HKOs Lugia after Stealth Rock, Groundon with some Spikes support, easily smashes through Stall, 2HKO Darkrai with E-Speed. If you do use CB Quaza, before you start using Outrage, USE V-CREATE FIRST, as it has the same Base Power as Outrage after STAB without locking you into an attack, so you can switch out, keeping Rayquaza around longer. ONLY USE OUTRAGE IF YOU'RE CERTAIN RAYQUAZA WON'T BE REVENGED KILLED AFTER A KO Cons: Being locked into one attack, though if you're spamming V-Create, you should be fine Mono-Attacking Kyorge > Scarf Pros: Checks Darkrai since it can sleep talk, bulkier so it can switch into Ice-type attacks, keeps rain up longer due to bulk, sets up on Bliss/Chans Cons: Losing a revenge killer, though Garchomp can revenge kill as well, plus priority from Quaza + Gira-O should be enough Jolly > Adamant on Chomp Pros: Outspeed base 100 Scarfers, such as Palkia and Kyurem-White, making Chomp a better revenge killer Cons: Less power, though Spikes and Rock support should be enough to compensate Taunt > Drill Peck + New EV Spread on Skarm Pros: Stop Ferro + Forry and some T-Tar from setting up hazards on you, making it easier for Quaza and others to come in, always survive SD Arceus's Brick Break while being able to tank Special Attacks a little better Cons: None really, Drill Peck isn't doing damage to anything unless its called Deo-A, which smashes Skarm with Thunder anyways Arceus-Grass > Deo-A Pros: Kyorge switch in, Stealth Rock, gets rid of Quaza + Mence w/ Ice Beam, Grass Knot gets rid of Kyorge and Groundon and T-Tar Cons: Losing a powerful attacker, though Arceus-Grass covers what your team fears the most, Rayquaza and other Kyorge Gira-O > Lugia Pros: SD Arceus check, a Mewtwo check(with Shadow Sneak), a spinblocker, Fight + Ground immunity, a phazer to spread entry hazard damage, which is handy is breaking down walls for Groundon + Quaza, Thunder for other Kyorge and Manaphy Cons: Losing a great tank, though without a spinner, Multiscale is getting broken due to Stealth Rock probably being up Sets Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb Trait: Levitate EVs: 208 HP / 60 Atk / 188 Def / 44 SAtk / 8 Spd Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef) - Will-O-Wisp - Dragon Tail - Thunder - Shadow Sneak Arceus-Grass @ Meadow Plate Trait: Multitype EVs: 252 HP / 144 SDef / 112 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Grass Knot - Recover - Ice Beam - Stealth Rock Good Luck with the team, hope I helped! __________________ Work Ever wanted to contribute to Smogon? Visit the Contributions and Corrections forum! ~SNOVERS~

Aug 10th, 2012, 12:55:39 AM	#11
albinorhino Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 10	ok so you should change rayquaza to choice band because with that set, all the attacks are like 1 time usage, hit hard and then get out, not sure about the EVs, cant really go wrong just make sure to max out speed and have a plus speed nature. For garchomp you definitely want to go jolly as there are TONS of scarf palkias out there and you dont want to get outsped with spacial rend/draco meteor. You want sub on Lugia, try twave sub toxic whirlwind. if you fear being taunted drop something for icebeam. Good luck __________________ please rmt http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3470799

Aug 2nd, 2012, 1:57:55 AM	#1
Rigel Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9	Need Help With My First Ubers Team This isn't one of those RMTs where I just show off my team, I actually need help with teambuilding. All my questions are bolded Rayquaza @ Life Orb Airlock Naive 252 Speed / 252 Sp. Attack / 4 Attack Outrage Draco Meteor V-Create ExtremeSpeed Amazing mixed attacker. I use Rayquaza to break walls, usually a Forretress that tries to set up entry hazards, allowing Garchomp and Kyogre to sweep. Even in the rain, V Create hits at max power thanks to Air Lock. Air Lock also shuts down the rare swift swimmers. Rayquaza is really only shut down by priority moves, since it's so frail, but usually the ExtremeSpeed/Ice Shard is obvious, so I can switch into Skarmory. My question here is the EVs: I took them straight off the official analysis, but seeing as 3/4 of this Rayquaza's attacks are physical, should I max attack rather than special attack? Kyogre @ Choice Scarf Drizzle Modest 252 Speed / 252 Sp. Attack Water Spout Surf Thunder Ice Beam Standard Kyogre. After special walls have been taken out, Kyogre hits everything really hard. With only 90 base speed, however, other scarfers with higher speed like Palkia can come in and try to revenge with Thunder, which is why I have Garchomp. I just have to make sure the opponent doesn't have anything that can outspeed Kyogre before I try to sweep, because taking damage reduces the power of Water Spout. Timid nature over Modest? Lugia @ Leftovers Multiscale (that's legal now right?) Calm 252 HP / 252 Sp. Def Thunderwave Ice Beam Whirlwind Roost No Defense investment because I want Lugia to take special hits as well as possible. It's not Lugia's job to take physical hits, so I don't keep him in to take them. Thunderwave cripples practically everything, and Ice Beam hits the dragon types which are everywhere in Ubers. Whirlwind is there to stop a pokemon from setting up. I don't like dragon tail because it's blocked by subs Suggestions are welcome here, but this set is working very well for me Skarmory @ Leftovers Sturdy Impish 252 Def / 252 HP Roost Whirlwind Spikes Drill Peck Similar to the Lugia situation, I only expect Skarmory to take physical hits. I switch Skarmory in on an Outrage and set up spikes. Drill Peck isn't used much, because it doesn't do much damage, but it's a reliable STAB move. I hate when my walls can't do anything back to attackers (like Chansey), and Skarmory can at least rack up damage with spikes. This set works fine for me, but any suggestions are welcome Garchomp @ Choice Scarf Sand Veil (it's... whatever) Adamant (Or should I go Jolly? I'm not sure if I need the extra power or speed more) 252 Attack 252 Speed Outrage Stone Edge Dragon Claw Earthquake Garchomp comes in on the electric attacks aimed at half my team, hits back hard and fast, usually gets a KO or two per battle. 102 base speed is faster than practically every other dragon, aside from the Lati's, which are rare. Deoxys-A @ Expert Belt Pressure Naughty (+Attack, -Sp. Def) 252 Speed / 252 Special Attack) Extreme Speed Superpower Ice Beam Thunder Expert Belt is such a troll: I use a physical attack, the opponent, seeing no lefties or life orb, switches in a physical wall thinking I'm choiced, and they get hit with special attack the next turn. Deoxys always gets a few KO's. Expert Belt is perfect for it's moveset. Big Problems! I have nothing that likes switching in on Ice type moves. I'm thinking Heatran or (lol) Cryogonal? If I bring one of those pokemon in, who should it replace? If I need to sacrifice a pokemon to Darkrai's Dark Void, my team falls apart. Deoxys can only deal with Darkrai if they are both sent out at the same time. I have trouble picking sleep fodder. Last edited by Rigel; Aug 2nd, 2012 at 2:22:18 AM.

Aug 2nd, 2012, 2:02:25 AM	#2
Rigel Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9	Got it, doing that right now

Aug 2nd, 2012, 3:24:46 AM	#3
lousy918 Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 298 At home	You are missing 4 evs on a lot of pokemon.

Aug 2nd, 2012, 3:36:58 AM	#4
Rigel Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9	I made use of them in the teambuilder, but I didn't bother posting them because they're pretty much insignificant.

Aug 2nd, 2012, 3:36:17 PM	#6
TIO Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 734	Sacrifice somebody who can afford to take a nap to deal with darkrai, namely one of your walls.

Aug 3rd, 2012, 1:35:33 AM	#9
Rigel Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9	Thanks TrollFreak! I'm definitely going to try out the sets you suggested. Skarmory really does need Taunt because I do get set up on, and my Garchomp was getting outspeed by Palkia/Dialga. Sleep Talk Kyogre seems like a good counter to Darkrai. Everything seems to make sense, although I have two points I would like to bring up. Most importantly, won't it be hard to spam V Create on Rayquaza with the speed drop? And I'm reluctant to give up Lugia, because it works wonders for me (And about that Multiscale bit: Paralysis from T-Wave allows Lugia to roost back up to Multiscale before getting hit), but I will give it a try.