The Double Weather Offensive

nov · Jul 19th, 2012, 10:11:43 AM

Hello Everybody! I couldn't sleep last night so instead I went onto PO and randomly made this double weather team just to see how it did. While there were a few kinks at first, I've been able to consistently win about 2/3s of the time, which I think is pretty good considering how strange the strategy is. I think this type of unorthodox team has loads of potential. I'm just not entirely sure how to bring it out.

Right now, just about everyone is using some type of weather, which is usually rain and every now and then Sandstorm and Sunny Day. However, I figured that having both Sun and Rain would be a fun concept, but was unsure of how it would do. It would allow me to combat weather teams with an opposing weather while simultaneously allow me to take advantage of their weather to great effect. However, I would have to take extra care in synergizing the team so that my pokemon wouldn't become useless after a weather inducer died.

Team Building Process

Politoed @ Choice Specs
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Sp.Atk/4 Def
Ability: Drizzle
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power (Grass)

A standard SpecsToed. I've tried the Defensive variants, and they just don't work on this team. When I did use the Defensive Politoed, I found myself simply switching it in to change the weather or to wall a heatran or Gliscore. However, SpecsToed really lets me rack up the damage. I OHKO anything frail and 2HKO anything without resistance and not named Blissey or Chansey. However, there is a trade off. I now have a lot of trouble dealing with Jellicent, whom I used to handle well with Politoed. I rarely use the other moves, only bothering to click them if I predict a switch.

Ninetales @ Life Orb
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Sp.Def
Ability: Drought
-Fire Blast
-Will-o-Wisp
-Energy Ball
-Hidden Power (Ice)

The second part of my weather inducing combo. Ninetales is Ninetales. It hits hard and gets hit hard. However it normally can survive one attack before it goes down. Most of the time it lasts a lot longer than one turn however, as Ninetales has a lot of offensive presence in the sun. Many-a-time, my opponent will switch to their bulky water or tyranitar and be hit with a WoW or an Energy Ball. Hidden Power Ice is for Dragons that may want to switch in as well, however, normally the only dragon switching in is Dragonite, which has multiscale, so I'm open to changing this.

Starmie @ Life Orb
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 Spe/ 252 Sp.Atk /4 HP
Ability: Natural Cure
-Hydro Pump
-Thunder
-Ice Beam
-Rapid Spin

Starmie is a great poke to have on almost any team. It has a collosal Speed stat and excellent offensive capabilites. Starmie fills a very important role in this team as a rapid spinner. Otherwise, Volcarona, Dragonite, and Ninetales would get ripped up by Stealth Rocks and everyone except Dragonite would be feeling the heat from spikes. Starmie also acts as a rain abuser, with a super-powered Hydro Pump and a 100% accurate Thunder. Ice Beam rounds off the bolt-beam combo and gives starmie perfect coverage except against Shedinja, whom I doubt I will ever see. Starmie also has a fighting resist up its sleeve which is always a great thing to have with all those fighting types running around. This makes Starmie an excellent choice against Keldeo as long as it doesnt have too many calm minds up.

Venusaur @ Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Sp.Def
Ability: Chlorophyll
-Swords Dance
-Power Whip
-Earthquake
-Sleep Powder

I cannot emphasize how important Venusaur is on this team. It has the most important job on the team, covering water types that wall both my fire and water type pokemon. And when Sun is up, it's my only true answer to Scarf Terrakion and Keldeo. It seems strange to have a set that doesn't rely on growth, but in reality, Swords Dance gets the job done on a physical Venusaur much more reliably. While it really shines in the Sun with Chlorophyll giving it blistering 568 Speed, It also fares well in the rain, where it no longer has to worry about those pesky fire types one-shotting it with their STABs. Power Whip is insanely strong after just one Swords Dance. Its just a shame so many pokes resist it. Earthquake is there for coverage, and sleep powder incapacitates the inevitable Balloon Heatran Switch-in or another counter. Lately I'm wondering if I should forego Swords Dance in lieu of a coverage move, however, I have no clue what to put in its place.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Spe/ 252 Atk/ 4 HP
Ability: Multiscale
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Fire Punch
-Aqua Tail

Dragonite is amazing with weather. With just one Dragon Dance he becomes an amazingly strong threat to the opponent. Especially because its common counters are naturally drawn out by my fire/water/grass core and whittled down to KO-able health. Combined with the right weather and a Dragon Dance Boost, there isn't a steel type that I can't kill with this set, which is the only thing stopping me from sweeping. Lum berry can mean the difference between winning the match or an early demise for a chance at sweeping. At worst, it allows Dragonite to heal off the confusion from Outrage.

Volcarona @ Lum Berry
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Sp.Def
Ability: Flame Body
-Quiver Dance
-Fiery Dance
-Bug Buzz
-Hurricane

Volcarona does very well on this team. Aside from Rock type attacks, it has wonderful synergy with Dragonite, taking Ice attacks like a champ, while dragonite takes the water type attacks thrown at it. Setting up in the face of many common pokemon like Latios, Scizor, Ferrothorn, and weaker special attackers. If Rain is up, then I make use of STAB Bug Buzz and the powerful Hurricane (whose confuse chance saves my butt a bunch). However, if Sun is up, watch out because your screwed if Volcarona sets up. Fiery Dance is absolutely incredibly in the sun, boosting Sp.Atk even further to destroy any walls the the opponent might have preserved.

Biggest Threats:

Brellom: Variants with Substitute are a complete nightmare
Jellicent: If Venusaur is gone, then they are a pain
Terrakion: A well-played Terrakion has a fun time with my team, especially if Venasaur is gone.

Novaray · Jul 19th, 2012, 11:16:19 AM

Hi nov

Very interesting and solid dual weather team you have here. I really think you're doing a good job of taking advantage of both sun and rain. Now looking at your team, It is threatened greatly by offensive dragon types such as Latios, Dragonite, and Salamence. Due to your lack of a Steel type, nothing on your team can switch into a Draco Meteor or Outrage. Choice Scarf Moxie Mence seems especially threatening as he outspeeds your entire team save Venusaur in sun who can't do much back except hope that Sleep Powder hits. For this reason, I suggest replacing Starmie with a Standard Defensive Donphan with a moveset of Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Ice Shard / Rapid Spin. Donphan benefits your team in some ways that Starmie currently cannot provide. First, he is able to lay up Stealth Rock which is crucial in this metagame to cripple top threats such as Dragonite, Salamence, Volcarona, and the new Therian formes in BW2. Second, Donphan gives you a priority Ice Shard which checks opposing Dragon types. I recommend an EV spread of 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def with an Impish nature as the attack investment allows for a 2HKO on Landorus with Ice Shard. Donphan also makes a great check to common sand team threats such as Tyranitar, Terrakion, and Landorus with his great bulk and underestimated attack stat. While doing all this, he still maintains rapid spin support for your team which is crucial to it's success.

Now for some smaller changes. First, I recommend Waterfall over Aqua Tail on Dragonite. Aqua Tail's 90% accuracy can be sometimes troubling as a miss could end a potential sweep. Waterfall is a bit weaker but makes up for that with a handy flinch chance and in the rain, the damage difference is largely negligible. Also the 4 HP EVs on Dragonite should be moved into Special Defense. This gives Dragonite an odd HP number, allowing for 5 switch ins into Stealth Rock rather than 4 which is usually irrelevant but may come in handy. Finally I would change Politoed's EV to 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spd. The little speed investment can allow you to outspeed other Choice Specs Politoeds which can prove valuable.

Hope I helped and good luck with your team!

Set:

...

tl;dr

...

nov · Jul 19th, 2012, 12:42:23 PM

Thanks Novaray (I can always count on ppl whose names begin with nov :D). I think that is a great idea actually. I have been having loads of trouble switching into electric type attacks. Donphan should allow my team to cover a much wider range of threats. Covering tyranitar consistently would also be a big help to my weather inducers.

I'll try it out and let you know how it goes.

nov · Jul 21st, 2012, 3:39:40 AM

Bumping.
Donphan is working out nicely, but now I find myself a bit weaker in the rain. Any ideas to fix that?

Jul 19th, 2012, 10:11:43 AM	#1
nov Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 163 Texas	The Double Weather Offensive Hello Everybody! I couldn't sleep last night so instead I went onto PO and randomly made this double weather team just to see how it did. While there were a few kinks at first, I've been able to consistently win about 2/3s of the time, which I think is pretty good considering how strange the strategy is. I think this type of unorthodox team has loads of potential. I'm just not entirely sure how to bring it out. Right now, just about everyone is using some type of weather, which is usually rain and every now and then Sandstorm and Sunny Day. However, I figured that having both Sun and Rain would be a fun concept, but was unsure of how it would do. It would allow me to combat weather teams with an opposing weather while simultaneously allow me to take advantage of their weather to great effect. However, I would have to take extra care in synergizing the team so that my pokemon wouldn't become useless after a weather inducer died. Team Building Process Of course I immediately started out with both Politoed and Ninetales. As I wanted this to be a heavily offensive team, I used SpecsToed and Offensive Ninetales. Both when used together have excellent coverage. Politoed is able to blast holes into anything not resisting water and even a few things that do. Ninetales has a very powerful Fire Blast and is an excellent lure for Tyranitar (who is promptly Will-o-Wisped. Next I needed a pokemon capable of sweeping well in both Rain and Sun. The pokemon I chose was Volcarona. It is ridiculously powerful in the sun (I've even set up on a Latios locked into surf) and has an excellent 100% accurate Hurricane in the Rain. Despite being a fire type, Volcarona is very capable of sweeping in the rain and has the secondary Bug type stab to fall back on. But I needed to keep the sweepers coming. I was adamant about having a physical sweeper, as at the moment, my team was completely special based. I can only think of one physical sweeper that functions well in the rain, dragonite. It could take a hit with multiscale and almost always get a dragon dance up. With Aqua Tail and Fire Punch getting pseudo-STAB depending on the weather, and each having near perfect coverage in conjunction with just Outrage, Dragonite fit the bill perfectly. Next I wanted to work on my core. I obviously needed a Rapid Spinner. My two Sweepers were bother horribly weak to Stealth Rock (Volcarona in particular). Ninetales wasn't too happy about the rocks either. I chose LO Starmie, giving it a moveset boosted by rain as well, utilizing high power moves like Hydro Pump and Thunder. Since Starmie worked so well in the Rain, I decided that for a bit more balance, I should choose something that works well in the Sun. I din't want another fire type in the mix, as that would just bring in more problems with Stealth Rock. Instead I noticed that I could easily achieve a Fire/Water/Grass core with a dragon type on top, which is a solid form of synergy. Who better, then, than Venusaur. However, instead of a Growth set, I opted for Swords Dance. I needed a physical Sweeper anyway and it would let me function much better in the rain (where my fire type weakness would be neutered, and, this way, I could utilized his grass typing regardless of the weather that was out. Politoed @ Choice Specs Nature: Modest EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Sp.Atk/4 Def Ability: Drizzle -Hydro Pump -Ice Beam -Focus Blast -Hidden Power (Grass) A standard SpecsToed. I've tried the Defensive variants, and they just don't work on this team. When I did use the Defensive Politoed, I found myself simply switching it in to change the weather or to wall a heatran or Gliscore. However, SpecsToed really lets me rack up the damage. I OHKO anything frail and 2HKO anything without resistance and not named Blissey or Chansey. However, there is a trade off. I now have a lot of trouble dealing with Jellicent, whom I used to handle well with Politoed. I rarely use the other moves, only bothering to click them if I predict a switch. Ninetales @ Life Orb Nature: Timid EVs: 252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Sp.Def Ability: Drought -Fire Blast -Will-o-Wisp -Energy Ball -Hidden Power (Ice) The second part of my weather inducing combo. Ninetales is Ninetales. It hits hard and gets hit hard. However it normally can survive one attack before it goes down. Most of the time it lasts a lot longer than one turn however, as Ninetales has a lot of offensive presence in the sun. Many-a-time, my opponent will switch to their bulky water or tyranitar and be hit with a WoW or an Energy Ball. Hidden Power Ice is for Dragons that may want to switch in as well, however, normally the only dragon switching in is Dragonite, which has multiscale, so I'm open to changing this. Starmie @ Life Orb Nature: Timid EVs: 252 Spe/ 252 Sp.Atk /4 HP Ability: Natural Cure -Hydro Pump -Thunder -Ice Beam -Rapid Spin Starmie is a great poke to have on almost any team. It has a collosal Speed stat and excellent offensive capabilites. Starmie fills a very important role in this team as a rapid spinner. Otherwise, Volcarona, Dragonite, and Ninetales would get ripped up by Stealth Rocks and everyone except Dragonite would be feeling the heat from spikes. Starmie also acts as a rain abuser, with a super-powered Hydro Pump and a 100% accurate Thunder. Ice Beam rounds off the bolt-beam combo and gives starmie perfect coverage except against Shedinja, whom I doubt I will ever see. Starmie also has a fighting resist up its sleeve which is always a great thing to have with all those fighting types running around. This makes Starmie an excellent choice against Keldeo as long as it doesnt have too many calm minds up. Venusaur @ Leftovers Nature: Jolly EVs: 252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Sp.Def Ability: Chlorophyll -Swords Dance -Power Whip -Earthquake -Sleep Powder I cannot emphasize how important Venusaur is on this team. It has the most important job on the team, covering water types that wall both my fire and water type pokemon. And when Sun is up, it's my only true answer to Scarf Terrakion and Keldeo. It seems strange to have a set that doesn't rely on growth, but in reality, Swords Dance gets the job done on a physical Venusaur much more reliably. While it really shines in the Sun with Chlorophyll giving it blistering 568 Speed, It also fares well in the rain, where it no longer has to worry about those pesky fire types one-shotting it with their STABs. Power Whip is insanely strong after just one Swords Dance. Its just a shame so many pokes resist it. Earthquake is there for coverage, and sleep powder incapacitates the inevitable Balloon Heatran Switch-in or another counter. Lately I'm wondering if I should forego Swords Dance in lieu of a coverage move, however, I have no clue what to put in its place. Dragonite @ Lum Berry Nature: Jolly EVs: 252 Spe/ 252 Atk/ 4 HP Ability: Multiscale -Dragon Dance -Outrage -Fire Punch -Aqua Tail Dragonite is amazing with weather. With just one Dragon Dance he becomes an amazingly strong threat to the opponent. Especially because its common counters are naturally drawn out by my fire/water/grass core and whittled down to KO-able health. Combined with the right weather and a Dragon Dance Boost, there isn't a steel type that I can't kill with this set, which is the only thing stopping me from sweeping. Lum berry can mean the difference between winning the match or an early demise for a chance at sweeping. At worst, it allows Dragonite to heal off the confusion from Outrage. Volcarona @ Lum Berry Nature: Timid EVs: 252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Sp.Def Ability: Flame Body -Quiver Dance -Fiery Dance -Bug Buzz -Hurricane Volcarona does very well on this team. Aside from Rock type attacks, it has wonderful synergy with Dragonite, taking Ice attacks like a champ, while dragonite takes the water type attacks thrown at it. Setting up in the face of many common pokemon like Latios, Scizor, Ferrothorn, and weaker special attackers. If Rain is up, then I make use of STAB Bug Buzz and the powerful Hurricane (whose confuse chance saves my butt a bunch). However, if Sun is up, watch out because your screwed if Volcarona sets up. Fiery Dance is absolutely incredibly in the sun, boosting Sp.Atk even further to destroy any walls the the opponent might have preserved. Biggest Threats: Brellom: Variants with Substitute are a complete nightmare Jellicent: If Venusaur is gone, then they are a pain Terrakion: A well-played Terrakion has a fun time with my team, especially if Venasaur is gone. Last edited by nov; Jul 19th, 2012 at 10:34:33 AM.

Jul 19th, 2012, 11:16:19 AM	#2
Novaray i am happy Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 1,140 that's just the saddest lie Mentor	Hi nov Very interesting and solid dual weather team you have here. I really think you're doing a good job of taking advantage of both sun and rain. Now looking at your team, It is threatened greatly by offensive dragon types such as Latios, Dragonite, and Salamence. Due to your lack of a Steel type, nothing on your team can switch into a Draco Meteor or Outrage. Choice Scarf Moxie Mence seems especially threatening as he outspeeds your entire team save Venusaur in sun who can't do much back except hope that Sleep Powder hits. For this reason, I suggest replacing Starmie with a Standard Defensive Donphan with a moveset of Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Ice Shard / Rapid Spin. Donphan benefits your team in some ways that Starmie currently cannot provide. First, he is able to lay up Stealth Rock which is crucial in this metagame to cripple top threats such as Dragonite, Salamence, Volcarona, and the new Therian formes in BW2. Second, Donphan gives you a priority Ice Shard which checks opposing Dragon types. I recommend an EV spread of 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def with an Impish nature as the attack investment allows for a 2HKO on Landorus with Ice Shard. Donphan also makes a great check to common sand team threats such as Tyranitar, Terrakion, and Landorus with his great bulk and underestimated attack stat. While doing all this, he still maintains rapid spin support for your team which is crucial to it's success. Now for some smaller changes. First, I recommend Waterfall over Aqua Tail on Dragonite. Aqua Tail's 90% accuracy can be sometimes troubling as a miss could end a potential sweep. Waterfall is a bit weaker but makes up for that with a handy flinch chance and in the rain, the damage difference is largely negligible. Also the 4 HP EVs on Dragonite should be moved into Special Defense. This gives Dragonite an odd HP number, allowing for 5 switch ins into Stealth Rock rather than 4 which is usually irrelevant but may come in handy. Finally I would change Politoed's EV to 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spd. The little speed investment can allow you to outspeed other Choice Specs Politoeds which can prove valuable. Hope I helped and good luck with your team! Set: ... Donphan (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk) -Stealth Rock -Earthquake -Ice Shard -Rapid Spin tl;dr ... Starmie ----> Standard Defensive Donphan Aqual Tail on Dragonite ----> Waterfall 4 HP EVs on Dragonite ----> 4 SDef EVs Politoed's EV spread ----> 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spd __________________ island in the sun

Jul 19th, 2012, 12:42:23 PM	#3
nov Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 163 Texas	Thanks Novaray (I can always count on ppl whose names begin with nov :D). I think that is a great idea actually. I have been having loads of trouble switching into electric type attacks. Donphan should allow my team to cover a much wider range of threats. Covering tyranitar consistently would also be a big help to my weather inducers. I'll try it out and let you know how it goes.

Jul 21st, 2012, 3:39:40 AM	#4
nov Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 163 Texas	Bumping. Donphan is working out nicely, but now I find myself a bit weaker in the rain. Any ideas to fix that?