ShakeItUp's list of Pokemon that need / do not need revamps

[ShakeItUp]

RU:

Crawdaunt

-Remove Superpower as a slash and add it to AC in the DD set (Substitute is much better since you can set up on things like Spiritomb and Slowking without worrying about being burned; Clefable is destroyed anyway, as is Munchlax, and Ferroseed only 2HKOs the Substitute, so you can stall it out of Gyro Balls and set up for days)
-Because of this, deslash Lum Berry and add it to AC for if people use Superpower over Substitute
-RU Revamp: NO

Druddigon

-I wrote this analysis woot, anyway
-Sheer Force should be the ability on the Physical Attacker set
-Move Superpower and Earthquake and make them slashes for the fourth slot
-Fire Punch should be the sole move for the second slot
-For the ParaShuffler set, Fire Punch should be the sole move in the 4th slot (move Dragon Claw and Sucker Punch to AC)
-Also, make the spread 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD with a Careful nature since it counters more special threats than physical threats (add physical spread to AC)
-Mentions of Pokemon that are no longer relevant like Rotom-F, Lampent, and Duosion
-Mentions of Sheer Force being useless compared to Rough Skin
-SR needs to be added
-RU Revamp: Yes

Electivire

-Deslash Cross Chop on the Mixed Attacker set, as Nidoqueen's presence means that EQ is better
-Make HP Grass the sole option in the 4th slot and move Ice Punch to AC (All Ice Punch hits is Lilligant, and HP Grass destroys Quagsire, Rhydon, and deals much more damage to the ever-common Sandslash)
-Physical Attacker set should be removed entirely; it is completely useless (wall breaking is what Evire should be used for, and it cant do that as well with this set with all the Tangrowth running around)
-Add Cofagrigus to Checks & Counters
-RU Revamp: NO

Escavalier

-uhh it has no analysis? .-.

Hitmonlee

-Earthquake > Double-Edge; remove Double-Edge and add it to AC (1st set)
-Remove Choice Set entirely, as there are too many ghosts in the tier; not to mention stuff like Slowking walls it hard
-Deslash Double-Edge on Offensive Rapid Spinner set and replace it with Earthquake
-Deslash Return on Unburden set
-Add Mesprit and Rotom to Checks & Counters
-Given that it has a lot of mentions of barely used Pokemon like Dusknoir and Misdreavus, as well as not mentioning things like Nidoqueen, Mesprit, and Slowking, RU Revamp: YES

Lanturn

-Deslash Thunderbolt on Tank set, as Ice Beam is better in pretty much every circumstance to nail Rotom-C and, more importantly, Tangrowth
-Slash Toxic in the 4th slot since it's good for nailing things like OTR Cofag
-Other sets seem solid .-.
-Mention how it is the best counter for Hurricane Moltres
-Also mention how it can counter most Klinklang since they run Wild Charge > Return
-RU Revamp: NO

Munchlax


-Mention Escavalier as a new, major threat for Munchlax
-Also mention how it can wall Nidoqueen
-Other than that, same old Pokemon
-RU Revamp: NO

NU

Basculin

-Yay a Pokemon I have never seen before in RU (not even in NU)
-De-slash Adamant on the CB set; Jolly should always be used to outrun things like Jynx, Lilligant, and the ever-common Taunt + SD Drapion
-Remove the second set entirely; good luck wallbreaking when every team runs a Tangrowth (you might as well use CB anyway because it hits harder)
-RU Worthy: ....this thing is utter crap, NO (delete analysis x.x)
-RU Revamp: NO

Charizard

-I wrote this, woot
-Add Roost to the first set over Air Slash
RU Worthy: Yes
RU Revamp: NO

Cradily

-People use this in RU? Since when?
-Keep first set as is, as even though Escavalier is here, Moltres also got Hurricane, so HP Fire vs. HP Rock is still an issue
-Delete the second-set, as with one attack, this thing is going to be walled by a plethora of Pokemon. Not to mention, with Rest Talk, it is easy set up fodder when the one attacking move you have doesn't even hit that hard without a couple boosts
-Keep SD set as is
RU Worthy: Yes
RU Revamp: NO

Emboar

-Make Choice Scarf the first set
-Remove the Flame Charge set, as it doesn't hit hard enough and is way too slow off the bat to be effective
RU Worthy: Yes
RU Revamp: NO

Hypno

-Make Thunder Wave the second slash and Toxic the first slash. This is necessary because Toxic can stop the ever-common OTR Cofag from sweeping, as well as hinder other walls like Tangrowth and Slowking.
-Mention a cleric as a partner because Hypno is pretty much useless if it is Toxic'd
RU Worthy: Yes
RU Revamp: NO

Kingler

-Make Jolly the primary slash on the first set because you ned it to outrun stuff like Scarf Manectric and Scarf Archeops after an Agility
-Make X-Scissor the main slash. Hitting Qwilfish is nice, but hitting Tangrowth and Slowking super effectively is better.
-For the Choice Band set, mention how running Jolly can allow Kingler to outrun the ever-present LO Nidoqueen
RU Worthy: Yes
RU Revamp: NO

Linoone

-The greatest fucking RU Pokemon ever lgi
-Remove Lum Berry as an option; no one wastes their time statusing Linoone when they can just kill it right off the bat (without Sitrus Berry, this becomes even easier). Even if Linooneis paralyzed, it still has ExtremeSpeed anyway.
-Add Salac Berry to AC with Gluttony because it lets Linoone outrun and KO Scarf Rotom
-Move Return to AC, as Return is only good for Tangrowth while the other two moves are good for multiple Pokemon
RU Worthy: Yes
RU Revamp: NO

Natu

-Not much to say, still the same Pokemon
-Mention how you can't Roost on Escavalier, so Natu has to set up Reflect and then U-Turn out (obviously if you use Roost, Megahorn is super effective and you will most likely die, even with Reflect up)
-Remove the specially defensive spread from Other Options, as with all of the Escavaliers and Spiritombs running around, Natu will be slaughtered in the blink of an eye with that spread
RU Worthy: Yes
RU Revamp: NO

Persian

-Oh, I remember this analysis >_______<
-The first set just doesn't hit that hard, and without any recovery, this thing can get worn down easily. Not to mention, Spiritomb kills this in the blink of an eye, and many Pokemon can sponge it's hits easily. Honestly, it's just not worth it. Delete it.
-The second set seems interesting because you can get surprise kills on stuff like Rhydon, Qwilfish, and Sandslash.
RU Worthy: Possibly
RU Revamp: NO

Pinsir

-Every set should have Moxie.
-Mention how Moxie makes the Choice set a revenge killer / sweeper in one.
-Delete the Physical Attacker set, as with the new SR move tutor, more things like Druddigon can do it better.
-Since Moxie should be used on all sets, deslash Earthquake since it is really only good with Mold Breaker.
RU Worthy: Yes
RU Revamp: YES

Raichu

-De-slash Focus Blast and move it to AC. Encore is better in almost every way, from being able to set up on Moltres by locking it into Substitute, locking things like Ferroseed into Stealth Rock, etc. Everything that's hit by Focus Blast besides Ferroseed is hit hard with Thunderbolt anyway
-Not much else to say since it didn't really change / get anything new in counters / checks
RU Worthy: Yes
RU Revamp: NO

Relicanth

-Deslash Jolly nature on the first set; sacrificing power to outrun Altaria of all things is not worth it
-Just merge the Rock Polish and Swift Swim sets and make Rain Dance the second slash with Rock Polish as the first
-Mention how it got somewhat better because it resists both of Hurricane Moltres's moves (it can only take one Hurricane, however)
RU Worthy: Yes
RU Revamp: NO

Shelgon

-Remove the first set; it is completely outclassed by Marvel Scale RestTalk Dragonair
-Make Fire Blast the main option over Dragon Claw on the Wish set, as this will destroy Steel-types like Steelix and also stop stuff like Klinklang from setting up on Shelgon if it has Toxic > Roar
-Because of this, make Calm the main nature of Careful
-Make Life Orb the second slash on the Offensive Dragon Dance set in order to give Shelgon more power
-Make Naive the primary nature, as Fire Blast is the main slash and will be ridiculously weak with Jolly
RU Worthy: Yes
RU Revamp: NO

Sneasel

-Remove Adamant Nature from the first set, as Jolly is necessary to outrun a lot of Pokemon, such as Galvantula, Archeops, and Scolipede
-Remove the SD set entirely; Sneasel is just too weak and frail, especially when it can't even learn Night Slash, to set up and sweep.
RU Worthy: Due to the fact that it is the fastest Pursuiter and can outrun a plethora of Pokemon, going to have to say yes.
RU Revamp: NO

Zangoose

-On the SD set, an Adamant nature should be the main slash over Jolly since Zangoose doesn't outrun too many notable threats with Jolly
-Toxic Boost should be the ability
-Toxic Orb should be the item
-Facade > Return
-Why the hell are we using Shadow Claw when Zangoose learns Night Slash? All Shadow Claw does is allow Normal-types to switch in unscathed
-Quick Attack should be the main slash over Night Slash since it is much more imperative to knock out faster threats, which Zangoose can do easily at +2 due to it's ridiculous power; it can knock out many sweepers after entry hazard support with Quick Attack
-Rename the set 'Physical Attacker' and slash Shadow Claw with Swords Dance, as with Toxic Boost, Zangoose doesn't need SD to be effective
RU Worthy: Yes
RU Revamp: YES

[Honko]

Druddigon should get a revamp. Both sets need significant changes to both the moves and abilities, as you mentioned. Stealth Rock also probably needs to be merged into the ParaShuffler set, turning it into a more generic tank. There are also plenty of mentions of Pokemon that are no longer relevant like Rotom-F, Lampent, and Duosion, and a lot of parts talking about how Sheer Force is useless and Rough Skin is better. So much of the analysis will need to be rewritten anyway that a revamp makes sense. Just do it yourself so you can keep a lot of your nice prose.

Munchlax's overview needs to be changed to stop making it sound like a good Pokemon.

I agree with everything else.

Zangoose sucks

[ShakeItUp]

Originally Posted by Fat Honko

Druddigon should get a revamp. Both sets need significant changes to both the moves and abilities, as you mentioned. Stealth Rock also probably needs to be merged into the ParaShuffler set, turning it into a more generic tank. There are also plenty of mentions of Pokemon that are no longer relevant like Rotom-F, Lampent, and Duosion, and a lot of parts talking about how Sheer Force is useless and Rough Skin is better. So much of the analysis will need to be rewritten anyway that a revamp makes sense. Just do it yourself so you can keep a lot of your nice prose.

Munchlax's overview needs to be changed to stop making it sound like a good Pokemon.

I agree with everything else.

Yeah, true. Ok, I'll change my stance on that; I also forgot about SR. Also I just realized that when I wrote this, it was Round 3 with my TR Hail team owning everyone. Revamp it is.

[alexwolf]

Imo Lanturn deserves a revamp.

First of all i think that the tank set is crap, and shouldn't in any way be the first set. In offensive teams Expert Belt/Lefties offensive Lanturn fits much better, and in more defensive/balanced teams, Sleep Talk is much better, as it can actually live long enough to counter the threats it is supposed to.

The only way that the Tank set can work is with Wish support. Without it, it is garbage, and is the reason why many people in RU think that Lanturn is not a good poke. Because we have its worst set as the first in the analysis. Imo the Tank set should only be mentioned in the AC of the RestTalk set with a mention that Wish support is absolutely necessary.

Also with Hurricane Moltres in the meta, Lanturn's role as a bulky water becomes way bigger, and this needs to be addressed.

Finally i think that the Specs set also needs a revamp, as EB is a much better item on it, and is a very solid set that fits very well in offensive teams, without forfeiting momentum as Specs Lanturn does. What is the point of locking yourslef into 1 move anyway, with a poke that has base 76 SpA? To be set-up fodder for everything after? And why waste this wonderful super effective coverage that Lanturn gets with Water-Electric-Ice-Grass/Fire?

[DittoCrow]

Tank set is good

Although I'd like it to be:

[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Scald
move 2: Volt Switch
move 3: Thunder Wave / Ice Beam
move 4: Heal Bell
item: Leftovers
ability: Volt Absorb
nature: Calm
evs: 40 HP / 252 Def / 216 SpD (this probably needs to be changed)

[alexwolf]

DittoCrow my problem with the Tank set is that it tries to do many things at once, and in the end does nothing...

Ok so you want to wall Galvantula, Moltres, Typhlosion and Manectric? Have fun getting 3hkoed by all of them, while you lack reliable recovery.

You want to have good coverage to not be set-up bait? Sry mate, but with 76 base SpA attack this will happen no matter how good your coverage is.

You also want to have Volt-Switch to keep the momentum? What momentum? You just lost 1/3 of your life by switching into one of the aforementioned threats, and you are now going to Volt Switch to get momentum back? Very smart, you just lost your hope of walling those dangerous special threats, only to get back momentum with a weak Volt-Switch on a DEFENSIVE mon. Guys there is a reason why Volt Switch and U-turn are mostly used on offensive mons. Because offensive pokes need to keep momentum, not defensive. And guess what poke Lanturn is...

Heal Bell is awesome and stuff, but Lanturn hardly has the time to use it, without having any reliable recovery. Heal Bell is good for almost any team, but it is a totally momentum losing move, which means that after using it you will more likely than not, get forced out. And Lanturn can't afford that ''take a hit and then switch out'' style because he lacks reliable recovery. Tell me one defensive poke that runs Heal Bell / Aromatherapy without having reliable recovery. Let's see... OU has Chansey, Blissey, Celebi, Roserade and Vaporeon. UU has Umbreon, Roserade, Togekiss, Xatu and maybe Clefable. RU has Clefable, Audino, Lickylicky and maybe Alomomola. I think you get the point.

Finally Lanturn needs Wish support but how well does he pair with the RU viable Wish supporters? Well let's see... Clefable, Audino and Lickylicky all are physically weak and hate Fighting attacks. So how will Lanturn come in? Alomomola fares somewhat better, because he can handle physical attacks, but they still share an ugly Grass weakness (Tangrowth, Roselia, Sceptile, Rotom-C and Ferroseed are everywhere) and their resistances overlap. So how will you pass those Wishes?

It is only normal that everyone sees Lanturn as a mediocre RU poke, when we have made the most popular set, one that is not good at what it does. It can't wall for long, can't avoid being set-up bait, has a piss weak move that overlaps with defensive Lanturn's role (Volt Switch), can't use Heal Bell well and can't even receive Wishes reliably.

[DittoCrow]

Actually I have that Lanturn set on over half of my teams and it never lets me down. Great pivot on offensive teams, forces a lot of things out, spreads para, has many chances to use Heal Bell, burns things with Scald, scouts with Volt Switch, and Leftovers is pretty good recovery for it as it resists a lot of types.

@Shake

For Druddigon, make the ParaShuffler 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD w/ a Careful nature. It counters a lot more special threats than it does physical threats. (Sceptile, Magmortar, Rotom-C, Tangrowth, Slowking, etc.)

[alexwolf]

My question is, why would you use such a defensive spread on Lanturn if you want to use it in an offensive team? Using an offensive Lanturn with EB / Lefties works much better for offensive teams, because it still give you a very solid switch-in to special electric and fire types, but also allows you to put some pressure to the opponent, as offensive Lanturn is surprisingly hard to wall, especially for offensive teams.

[mailanbr]

Maybe we should also have Metang have an RU analysis considering it will be in the tier for at least 3 months? I know it got to RU from Molk and others screwing around, but there has to be at least somewhat viable set to compete in the RU metagame.
This would also be good for anyone that comes to the site that want to check out what Pokes are good in what tiers without actually lurking around the forums.

[complete legitimacy]

I've been using a spread of 112 HP / 144 Def / 252 SpD Calm on Lanturn to avoid the 2HKO from Life Orb Moltres's HP Grass after Stealth Rock, and it's also good to take less from Nidoqueen's Earth Power since you only take 66% from it. I also think that the RestTalk set should be moved to first on the analysis.

[ShakeItUp]

added NU Pokemon

[Cherub Agent]

Charizard

-I wrote this, woot
-Uhh, keep as is, it didn't get any new moves or any new threats to deal with (even though Moltres got Hurricane, Charizard is used for sun, which increases power with Solar Power and allows for Solarbeam to be used to smash Slowking)
RU Worthy: Yes
RU Revamp: NO

Charizard is now able to use Roost in conjunction with Solar Power, which is pretty huge, as it can finally recover off all that passive damage it takes. You only really need Fire Blast and SolarBeam anyway.

[Sound]

You can't forget Sigilyph, who is now a great wall breaker. Tinted Lens was released on it, and it got Trick as well. It now can run a set such as Psychic/Psyshock/Air Slash/Trick with Specs. 2HKOs tons of walls with Modest, SR and the appropriate Psychic (type) move, and anything you can't break through (such as Mandibuzz), you just Trick away your Specs. Very worthy of an addition to the analysis, in my opinion.

Also, on the offensive LO set, Heat Wave should be added to the fourth moveslot slash instead of HP Fighting. Heat Wave has more power, and the only 'mon it loses coverage against is Aggron, and a +1 Heat Wave has a good chance to 1HKO after SR, and it can beat Aggron on the switch without any boosts with 2 Heat Waves (No SR required there).

[blarajan]

Slash Protect with Heal Bell on the Lanturn tank set. It's fucking GOOD.

[alexwolf]

Agreeing with Blarajan.