Pokemon RBY In-game Tiers - Mark II

[Mekkah**]

A reminder to you all: I haven't forgotten about this, and I'll have time to make a big update within the next couple of days. Keep them tests coming! (though I gotta say I'm a little sceptical on relying on crits to OHKO)

[Hemp Man]

Originally Posted by Fat Mekkah

A reminder to you all: I haven't forgotten about this, and I'll have time to make a big update within the next couple of days. Keep them tests coming! (though I gotta say I'm a little sceptical on relying on crits to OHKO)

Well, you could mention something along the lines of Due to Electrodes natural high speed, he is also has a very strong chance to score a critical hit

[Masttershake]

So I've read through the entire thread and seen no mention of the mew glitch/bug which lets you obtain it before the second gym(aswell as other shit like Gengar and Alakazam if you can't trade.) Are you not allowing things like this in the write up?

[Afti]

Things like the Mew glitch and Missingno. glitch defeat the purpose of a tier list; any level 100 fully-evolved Pokémon at Cerulean will break the game. Hell, you could solo the game with a Beedrill obtained that way.

[Masttershake]

You get them at level 7, and I ment it mainly for getting Mew himself as there is no other way to get it.

[atsync]

The Mew glitch is banned because it allows you to get certain pokemon well before you would in what is considered a "normal" playthrough. Remember that Mew is not the only pokemon you can get from the glitch. It would have a massive effect on the tier list, with some pokemon going up because of it. Since most people would probably not use the glitch, the list becomes less useful if it is allowed when tiering.

All glitches (Missingno. glitch, Pikachu happiness glitch, etc.) are banned regardless of their consequence for consistency.

In regards to Voltorb, I can't see it being any higher than Mid. It pretty much has the same problems as Magnemite (Thunderbolt TM dependency and inability to deal with Electric resists efficiently). I prefer Magnemite for the power, but Electrode should still do ok since 80 Special isn't that bad for abusing STAB Thunderbolt (better than Yellow Pikachu at least) and I did actually find Magneton getting outsped sometimes so the muge speed Electrode has is useful.

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat Masttershake

So I've read through the entire thread and seen no mention of the mew glitch/bug which lets you obtain it before the second gym(aswell as other shit like Gengar and Alakazam if you can't trade.) Are you not allowing things like this in the write up?

it was quite a major hullabaloo in the first thread, specifically with this post
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=17

On another note, your -high- chance of critical is something like 27.3%. That's not to say, very reliable, since roughly you are critting thrice every 10 attacks.

[Garud]

Originally Posted by Fat Mekkah

A reminder to you all: I haven't forgotten about this, and I'll have time to make a big update within the next couple of days. Keep them tests coming! (though I gotta say I'm a little sceptical on relying on crits to OHKO)

I never said he had to rely on them, he's just scoring them all over the place. Remember, I'm playing this objectively and observing how they play out. The full analysis will come later, but he's more than carrying his own weight against anything not a Ground or Grass type so far.

[atsync]

I'm planning another playthrough, this time of Red. I'll probably use these:

Tangela
Kangaskhan
Chansey
Growlithe
Slowpoke
Kabuto

Yeah I guess I'm kind of insane for using both Chansey and Kangaskhan in the same run, and if it gets TOO fustrating I may get rid of one for something else, but for now this is it.

[Garud]

I'm going to say it in my review anyway, but I'm going to say it now. Marowak is hard work and is well outclassed by Diglett. He's not horrendous, but you would be relying on Body Slam/Take Down/Headbutt to hit Flying types. Also, his speed sucks, he's always taking hits and having trouble hitting back.

Electrode has trouble with Erika, that's for sure. Seadra does well, but not if it's still Horsea and not without Ice Beam either. Hitmonlee is awesome, but I wish it could learn a move that could hit Ghost types. And Venasaur is incredible, so far it's the MVP of the playthrough. It hits hard and effectively even with just Razor Leaf/Take Down.

Edit: I'm going to use this post to track down the progress of the pokemon I am using, just note the entries below are not finished.

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-Voltorb
-Availability: Fairly early, before Lt Surge but most likely afterwards.
-Stats: Enormous speed coupled with a decent Special means Voltorb will be hitting hard and first.
-Movepool: Barren offensive movepool is an understatement. Sonicboom is good for early grinding but loses its usefulness quickly. Requires Thunderbolt from Lt Surge to function throughout the game, and while it has a good Normal-type movepool, it's attack is atrocious making those moves basically useless.
-Power: Does high damage to any pokemon that isn't Ground, Grass or Electric.
-Type: Being weak only to Ground is great, but doesn't have a lot of resistances and offensively Voltorb is dependent on Normal-type moves to get around Ground and Grass types.
-Match-ups:
Lt Surge: If you insist on using Voltorb against Surge, it's worth noting that it will take 10 Sonicbooms to beat his entire team (3 for Voltorb, 3 for Pikachu, 4 for Raichu). He can win, but it's dependent on move selection and accuracy.
Erika: Electrode hates Grass-types. While he cannot KO them, they can status him in return or just KO outright. Don't use Electrode here.
Koga: Even at a lower level he sweeps with Thunderbolt. Koga is a joke though, and even though Muk and Weezing will take 2 hits, they won't hurt you too bad. You are more likely to faint post-battle due to poison, rather than lose here.
Sabrina: If you let Electrode learn Light Screen then you are a real chance here. Set up on Kadabra and then go for the KO with STAB Thunderbolt. Even though physical moves are an option, only resort to them if Sabrina uses Light Screen. You will out-speed her team, because Electrode is one of the few Pokemon who can, however they pack more of a punch overall, and Alakazam has the potential to wreck you even with Light Screen protection. While not a guaranteed sweep, Electrode is a good choice here.
Blaine: Electrode can spam Thunderbolt to pretty much sweep this gym. None of Blaine's pokemon can do too much damage in retaliation, assuming they aren't OHKO'd. Arcanine is the only Pokemon you may have trouble beating as it will take 3 hits to take him out, but only 2 if he uses Take-Down.
Giovanni: Electrode can only hit his Pokemon with Normal-type attacks. Don't use him here unless he's your last Pokemon, it will not end well. On the plus side, he can KO Rhyhorn with Sonicboom, but it takes 9 uses of it and risks getting KO'd himself.
Lorelei: Electrode does great here, especially if you set up. On the first turn use Light Screen to protect yourself from Special attacks. The reason for this is because Dewgong and the like will be bulky enough to take your attacks quite well, and so you want Electrode to have the same level of survivability. With that being said, you should still sweep fairly comfortably as not even Jynx will like taking your attacks.
Bruno: This one is a mixed bag. Electrode is one of the very few pokemon that Onix is actually a threat to, so obviously get someone to take them out. However, Machamp, Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee will not like taking your electric attacks so there is definite opportunity for Electrode to shine here.
Agatha: Much harder than the others, Gengar and the like may not resist your attacks but their sky-high Special means you won;t be doing much outside of critical hits. It's worth noting that as long as you have the Pokeflute, the best they can do to you is chip away with Night Shade and confuse you with Confuse Ray. It really just comes down to luck here, you could win or lose either way.
Lance: Not an easy fight here, his 3 dragons outright resist your attacks and can whittle you down with Dragon Rage and Slam. It's worth noting that Gyarados is scared shitless of Electrode, as is Aerodactyl, which means with smart switching, Electrode becomes quite viable.
Rival: Mixed bag here. Exeggutor is your worst nightmare here as he resists your attack with his humongous Special and type advantage and responds with anything. Rhydon is definitely a big deal as well, and you don't to mess with Alakazam, Jolteon or Venasaur. But on the plus side, if you picked Venasaur as your starter, he will have 3 pokemon that are taken out by Electric attacks (Pidgeot, Charizard and Gyarados).
Additional Comments: Despite being walled to hell and back by every Ground type in the game, Electrode is a great Pokemon and should be considered for every team. It's great utility combined with a great Speed stat, decent special and one of the best offensive types in the game, you have one hell of a Pokemon. It is worth noting that Electrode's poor movepool really lets it down, and it won't be soloing the entire game for you, but there are many Pokemon that just won't be able to take it on in any form.

...

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Hitmonlee
-Availability: Right after Lt Surge, if you make a beeline to Celadon to get to Saffron. You get one at level 30, your choice.
-Stats: Decent speed and large attack make Hitmonlee quite dangerous offensively.
-Movepool: His main move, Jump Kick/HJP he learns on his own and will carry him against all neutral opponents, as well as the plethora of normals. Normal moves will round out his coverage, but Hitmonlee will forever be unable to hit Ghosts.
-Power: Decent speed and high power make Hitmonlee a force to be reckoned, he hits everything that doesn't resist him hard.
-Type: He a fighting type, so not so good in that department, but at least he can take out the Rock and Normal types with ease.
-Match-ups:
Erika: Provided you give him a decent Normal-type move, Hitmonlee should do well against Erika. It's not a full sweep though, and he can be wrecked by paralysis.
Koga: Not great here because all of Koga's pokemon resist Fighting-type moves. Hitmonlee can do well after 2 Meditates if you taught it Swift as the first Koffing is fairly easy to set up on. Watch out for Weezing's Self-Destruct.
Sabrina: Sabrina is hard for obvious reasons, type disadvantage is going to hurt here, although if Hitmonlee is around level 44 it can outspeed Kadabra and probably take out Mr Mime and Venomoth, but that's with difficulty. Hitmonlee doesn't stand a chance against Alakazam.
Blaine: Hitmonlee sweeps with relative ease using only Jump Kick, and OHKOing both Growlithe and Ponyta. While it may take 2 hits to take out Rapidash and Arcanine, if you set up a few meditates on Blaine's joke Pokemon, you will be all right. Hitmonlee is a good choice here as nothing in Blaine's team resists Fighting.
Giovanni: Even though Hitmonlee gets type advantage against Rhyhorn and Rhydon, their high defense mean that Hitmonlee will not be scoring OHKO's unless he is carrying HJK, which is available at level 48. Still, Hitmonlee does well here provided you gave him Double-Edge or Body-Slam. The trick is to Meditate on Rhyhorn to get your attack up a few levels, and then just sweep with your best moves. Use your kick attack (JK or HJK) for Rhyhorn, Rhydon and Dugtrio, and use Body-Slam or Double-Edge on the Nidos, which will ensure the sweep.
Lorelei: Hitmonlee performs very admirably here as he has a great type advantage against numerous Pokemon that Lorelei has, including Dewgong, Lapras and Cloyster. In addition, Jynx can only hit you neutrally as she has no Psychic-type attacks. The real problem of this fight is Slowbro who will Amnesia until it's capable of wrecking your entire team. Your best bet is to switch into something faster with Razor Leaf to ensure that he doesn't set up.
Bruno: Despite having a Hitmonlee himself, yours should be better. Use Onix to set up multiple Meditates and proceed to sweep his team with High Jump Kick.
Agatha: Hitmonlee's Elite 4 run was going so well, what happened? Hitmonlee's only disadvantage from Hitmonchan is his inability to hit Ghosts at all. Agatha has 3 ghosts, and 2 poison types and one flying type. This is not a good match-up in any way for you, just pick a Psychic-type to do the work here.
Lance: Lance isn't easy, but he isn't difficult either. Both Dragonairs and Aerodactyl are neutral to Hi Jump Kick, so Hitmonlee does have room for damage. Just beware of Gyarados and Dragonite, who are both bulky and can do some serious damage in response.
Rival: No matter which starter you pick, Hitmonlee will have trouble here in various amounts as your rival will always carry numerous flying types (Charizard, Gyarados, Pidgeot), a poison type (Venasaur) and numerous Psychics (Alakazam, Exeggutor). That being said, Hitmonlee can deal serious damage to any pokemon that doesn't resist Fighting, and you can look no further than Rhydon for that.
Additional Comments: Hitmonlee is arguably the best Fighting-type in the game. It has great stats, it gets the best Fighting-type move and you get it at a relatively low level. The biggest problem Hitmonlee faces regularly is the fact that it can't touch Ghosts. Hitmonlee can't hit a Ghost to save his life, and it really lets him down. With that being said, the amount of Normal types and Rock types in the game provide Hitmonlee with many opponents he can take down. Overall he is a great Pokemon and a worthy choice for any team.

...

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-Horsea
-Availability: Mid-game with the Super Rod just below Fuchsia. It only comes at level 15.
-Stats: Horsea has all-round good stats, and a decent Special and Defense meaning it can take the odd hit or two. Speed is average, so it will not be outspeeding everything, but some things.
-Movepool: Horsea's entire usable movepool consists of Surf, Ice Beam, Blizzard and Hydro Pump. You get Horsea at Fuchsia so Surf is a standard. Ice Beam is important for coverage and is obtainable at Celadon so it's not too far away.
-Power: Horsea is quite strong because it can hit a lot of types with Super Effective moves with its Ice/Water coverage. Once it gets rolling, Horsea can OHKO many different pokemon comfortably.
-Type: Water types have 2 weaknesses, Grass and Electric, neither of which are common. Resisting Fire, Ice and Water is quite useful, especially since many of the end-game trainers have those types on-hand.
-Match-ups:
Erika: It's unlikely you have Horsea at this point, but it's possible. Still, Horsea does not belong in this gym battle, unless it's a decent level and has Ice Beam. Ice Beam sweeps, but Vileplume is bulky enough to take a few and hit back with Petal Dance. Horsea will not like status.
Koga: Sweeps fairly easily, but if you fail to KO a Pokemon, be prepared to be frustrated by Smokescreen/Minimize a little more. May take more than one hit to KO Weezing, depending on your level. Watch out for Self-Destruct.
Sabrina: Seadra can do well here, provided you can outspeed, but it all depends as even with STAB Surf, you fail to OHKO the likes of Kadabra and Mr Mime. In addition, it's almost impossible to beat Alakazam even at a higher level, his Special is too high and Psybeam does too much damage. You could try using moves like Double-Edge and Body Slam for this battle, but it won't necessarily be worth wasting a TM on Seadra for this one battle, especially since her Attack stat isn't spectacular.
Blaine: Surf sweeps Blaine even if you are underleveled. Seadra also won't be taking a lot of damage from anything Blaine can do, so even if you fail to OHKO Arcanine, you can be sure that he won't hit you very hard back.
Giovanni: Surf will ensure that Horsea will OHKO every Pokemon on his team, due to their cumulative weaknesses and terrible Special stats.. Also viable moves Seadra can use in this battle to score OHKOs include Hydro Pump, Blizzard, Ice Beam, Bubblebeam and Water Gun.
Lorelei: This is a bad match-up here, because all her Pokemon resist Water and Ice (barring Jynx from the former). You resist it too, but there's nothing of value gained here, save your PP for later.
Bruno: Clean sweep to say the least, Surf should take out pretty much anything on his team. There's not much his Pokemon can respond with in return, even Thunderpunch off Hitmonchan will be pathetic at best.
Agatha: Agatha isn't as easy as she looks. Gengar and Haunter can take a few Surfs to take down and can whittle you away with Confuse Ray and Night Shade. It really comes down to your level versus theirs, but you won't be hitting them efficiently. Golbat is easy enough, going down to Ice Beam, but beware paralysis from Arbok's Glare.
Lance: Water types always do well against Lance, and this is no exception. Surf nails Aerodactyl, while Ice Beam takes out Dragonair and Dragonite. Gyarados is neutral to all of your attacks, and while it is better to let an Electric-type handle it, it just means Seadra will be weakened.
Rival: Your rival will be difficult under any circumstance, certain pokemon can be beaten much easier than others. Rhydon, Charizard and Arcanine fall to Surf, Pidgeot, Venasaur and Exeggutor lose to Ice Beam. And it is likely you will lose out to the likes of Alakazam and Jolteon, while Gyarados and Blastoise will hit you hard with their powerful normal moves.
Additional comments: While Horsea does have some good points, overall you will find yourself wishing you had chosen Staryu instead, as Staryu's superior stats, improved movepool and superior typing make it much easier to use. Being outclassed doesn't mean Horsea isn't great though, as it holds its own quite well throughout the game and you get it around the time you get Surf which is a huge plus. Overall a decent Pokemon, shame she can barely touch other Water types.

...

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Cubone
-Availability: Lavender Town is the earliest and they come at level 22 which isn't too far off your team at the time.
-Stats: Cubone is slow. He has a decent Attack and a great Defense stat, but he's always taking hits because he is slow.
-Movepool: Comes with STAB moves unlike other Ground types, and can learn some great moves, but Cubone's Special is poor and can only really obtain Normal moves to take advantage of its stats.
-Power: Cubone/Marowak is very strong coming off it's STAB moves, but it's quite slow so it will always be taking a hit which will wear it down significantly.
-Type: Not a lot of trainers use Electric-type moves, meaning Cubone's immunity is useless. In addition, weakness to Grass and Water is not great. Marowak doesn't get a lot of important resistances though, which is unfortunate.
-Match-ups:
Erika: Erika is a problem for Marowak. It's slow, so it can be hit with a status, locked in a constricting move or taken out swiftly with a Super Effective move. However, if you are lucky and you are appropriately leveled, Marowak should KO one of Erika's Pokemon. Just don't expect a sweep.
Koga: Marowak is strong against poison and has a high defense. In addition, Bone Rush hits all of his Pokemon hard. Koga will often be too busy giving his Pokemon X-Attack as well, so you can be comfortable 2HKOing some of his Pokemon. Also worthy of note, Marowak's defense can help cushion Weezing's Self-destruct.
Sabrina: Marowak is not great here. His low Speed combined with his low Special means he will be hit first and hard, even at level 50. He will KO Kadabra in 1 shot, but he will be hit first. Venomoth will use Stun Spore to slow you down and hit you with Psybeam. Mr Mime can take a hit, but can't do much to you back with Doubleslap. Alakazam can usually take a hit from you and hit you hard back, and since he outspeeds you even with a large level gap, this means he is very likely to KO you regardless.
Blaine: Marowak does well here, as STAB Dig/Earthquake/Bone Rush will OHKO all of Blaine's pokemon. All he will do in response is spam Super Potions and use Normal-type moves, which Marowak can take with ease due to his high defense.
Giovanni: Marowak is a solid performer here, especially if he has Earthquake. His high defense and STAB Earthquakes mean Marowak will be able to take a hit from every Pokemon on his team and strike back hard. He also gets type advantage against Nidoking and Nidoqueen as a bonus.
Lorelei: Unfortunately every Pokemon in Lorlei's team will have a type advantage over Marowak, and many of them will be faster. This is a bad match-up for Marowack.
Bruno: The opposite of Lorelei, Bruno will be hitting you exclusively with Physical attacks and his pokemon will more likely be slower. Marowak will be dealing some serious damage here, this is a great match-up.
Agatha: This match-up is very much mixed. On one hand, all of her Pokemon are poison types, but on the other, they are all faster than you and will status you to high hell and back. This match basically comes down to luck.
Lance: He has 3 Pokemon that are immune to Ground attacks, and many of those Pokemon will be hitting you hard with moves like Hydro Pump and Slam. You don't have it easy here.
Rival: There are definitely better match-ups for Marowak, but there are some pros and cons. There will always be a Fire type and he will always have Rhydon, so you have an advantage there, but aside from that you do not want to try to sweep with this match-up.
Additional Comments: Sandslash, Dugtrio, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Rhydon, Golem. Those are all the Ground types that outclass Cubone. Many of them come earlier as well, which means that in many playthroughs Marowak will be overlooked. That being said, there are a number of benefits to Cubone, one such being that he learns high base power Ground moves and works with good TM support to round out his coverage. His middling Speed and weaknesses to Grass and Water let him down, but Cubone is not a horrible choice for a Pokemon.

Ponyta
-Availability: Level 32 on Cinnabar Island is a little late in the game, and it's fairly late evolution means it does lag behind a bit.
-Stats: Rapidash is quick and has a very decent attack stat, making any physical move hurt. In addition, her stats are quite well rounded as well, Rapidash can best be compared to a Fire-type Tauros.
-Movepool: Very poor, as Rapidash only really gets Fire Spin and Ember via level up, and is actually incompatible with Flamethrower. On the physical side it's much better, as she can learn great moves like Hyper Beam and Body Slam allowing her to round out her coverage, but Rapidash really wishes for Dig or Earthquake.
-Power: Good Attack and a decent Special mean Rapidash can pack a punch on both sides of the spectrum. In addition, Rapidash has a high speed, often hitting first, hitting hard and scoring a good amount of critical hits.
-Type: Being a Fire type means Rapidash gets the short end of the stick, and
Match-ups:
Erika: You can have Ponyta at this point, but you would have gone quite out of your way to get her just for this battle. Ponyta sweeps outright here, no contest.
Sabrina: Ponyta is weird here, it's more likely Rapidash at this point though. Stomp pretty much eliminates Kadabra and Alakazam in 1 shot, Fire Spin is great for both Mr Mime and Venomoth as it traps them until Stomp/Take-Down/Body-Slam can OHKO them. In addition, Rapidash can take a couple of hits so it can afford to miss occasionally. Rapidash is one of the few Pokemon that can actually sweep Sabrina comfortably.
Blaine: Blaine is an idiot, and will spam super potions because he doesn't do anything else. Once he runs out, then he starts to attack, but don't worry, there is little he can do. Everything you can't KO with Hyper Beam/Body Slam/Stomp in 1 shot, you can Fire Spin until it is weak enough to be KO'd, although only Arcanine poses any sort of threat.
Giovanni: Rapidash is surprisingly good, despite not being able to learn a move that hits either Rhyhorn or Rhydon supereffectively. Fire Spin is able to trap any Pokemon that won't be KO'd by Fire Blast until they get into the range that it will. Even better, Body Slam will score some great KO's, and Hyper Beam will wreck Dugtrio, Nidoking and Nidoqueen. Just be wary of Dig from Dugtrio, as it will hurt.
Lorelei: The fact that 4 of her Pokemon are Water-type doesn't help Rapidash here. Rapidash's best strategy is to Fire Spin Pokemon into Body Slam range, but it's going to severely drain her PP. Use her for Jynx alone and don't even go near Slowbro.
Bruno: Not a bad match-up here, Onix has a terrible Special so Fire Blast should KO it quickly. The Fighting-types won't like taking Body Slams and Hyper Beams, so distribute those liberally. Overall, Rapidash can sweep quite well.
Agatha: Since Rapidash relies on it's Normal-type coverage to score KO's, and because her PP is limited, this is not a great match-up. You are far better off sticking with something else, preferably something with Psychic or Ground moves.
Lance: Not a bad match-up but not great either. Rapidash can continue to rely on it's Normal-Type attacks, and do some decent damage, just avoid Aerodactyl and Gyarados.
Rival: Rapidash has decent typing here, even Rhydon's poor Special mean's he won't like taking a Fire Blast. The thing to note is that Gary will always have a Water type, and you should make sure you avoid using Rapidash there, unless you are going to try and weaken it with Hyper Beam.
Additional Comments: Like it was mentioned above, Rapidash is basically a poor man's Tauros. They both learn similar moves, have similar stats and both rely on their Normal-type moves for coverage. Rapidash is better used by smarter players, basically it's main strategy is to use Fire Spin to trap opponents until they are in KOing range. Hyper Beam is practically mandatory, while Stomp/Body Slam gives you a higher PP option. Fire Spin is useful far into the endgame and Fire Blast is necessary for a high-powered STAB attack. Overall, Rapidash finds many places to shine and can work wonders for your team, but it has definite trouble in some spots more than others.

[JSND]

Sorry for asking, how did you get Electrode before Surge ?

[Garud]

Originally Posted by Fat JSND

Sorry for asking, how did you get Electrode before Surge ?

It's Misty's badge that allows you to use Cut, so once you obtain HM Cut off the SS Anne you backtrack to Cerulean and go right (through the tree) to outside the Power Plant/Rock Cave. You find Voltorb in the grass after the trainers. And it was Voltorb when I fought Surge, not Electrode, which would have taken some major grinding to do.

[Spork]

if I have a test playthrough, who should I use?

[Garud]

Originally Posted by Fat Spork

if I have a test playthrough, who should I use?

May I suggest Pidgey, Porygon, Koffing, Psyduck? And 1 starter and 1 of anything, because I think we have covered it.

[Spork]

Originally Posted by Fat Garud

May I suggest Pidgey, Porygon, Koffing, Psyduck? And 1 starter and 1 of anything, because I think we have covered it.

I dunno if it's a good idea to have Porygon and Koffing on the same run because of the TBolt TM... I think I'll try Koffing only? I don't see either one being useful or fairly tested without Thunderbolt.

Thanks for the suggestions. Also, I'll take Bulbasaur, and Rhyhorn and Kabuto too if nobody's done them yet (?).

[Garud]

Originally Posted by Fat Spork

I dunno if it's a good idea to have Porygon and Koffing on the same run because of the TBolt TM... I think I'll try Koffing only? I don't see either one being useful or fairly tested without Thunderbolt.

Thanks for the suggestions. Also, I'll take Bulbasaur, and Rhyhorn and Kabuto too if nobody's done them yet (?).

Rhyhorn is done (I did it) and Bulbasaur is done too I think and Kabuto is in progress with someone else.

[Spork]

OK well I'll definitely still be doing
-Bulbasaur
-Pidgey
-Koffing
-Psyduck

and then whatever I guess. I could try more miscellaneous water types. Seel? Horsea? Slowpoke?

[Garud]

You can use whatever, it's just most of whats left is being covered right now. You could ask Mekkah about which entries need redoing, I know Magmar's is terrible (its so damn short, tells me nothing) but like I said ask him.

[Spork]

OK then. I'm going to try:

-Bulbasaur
-Pidgey
-Koffing
-Psyduck
-Magmar
-Seel

on Blue version.

[Naix]

Hey guys, I decided to play Red to contribute to this list. Keep in mind that if a Pokemon I decided to use on my team is already tiered, it's probably because I feel the current submission is either bare or misleading, or in the case of Nidoran (F), I feel like trying out how useful in-game trades can be. Expect me to give an update on how the team's doing and how they did against the Gym Leaders once every 2 badges.

My planned team (as of this post) is Weedle, traded Nidoran (F), Tangela, Jigglypuff, Slowpoke, and Scyther, for future reference. I'll be ditching my starter (Squirtle) as soon as I catch Jigglypuff.

[atsync]

Just updating my progress for my current playthrough.

I'll start by saying that for the first parts of the game I used this team:

Bulbasaur
Nidoran (M)
Abra
Diglett

This was just to speed through the early parts of the game. The only thing I'll say is that I'm not convinced that Bulbasaur is going to be top tier (it is at least high tier though). The amount of things that resist grass in this game is pretty noticable. Even early game you have to fight Caterpie, Metapod, Weedle, Kakuna, Pidgey, Ekans, Zubat and Nidoran quite a lot, and Tackle isn't going to sweep through these guys...

But that isn't why I'm posting. I have just beaten Erika and my team is currently:

Ivysaur
Nidoking
Kadabra
Dugtrio
Arcanine

The reason why I'm still using the 4 pokemon from the start of my playthrough is that I wanted to keep my playthrough realistic, and I thought that having a whole team made more sense (plus it prevents me from overlevelling Arcanine through soloing, which could make it seem better than it actually is). I'll get rid of them when I get more of my final team though.

Anyway, when I got Growlithe I immediately gave it Dig and Body Slam. I leveled it up to level 24, which wasn't too hard thanks to Dig OHKOing wild Ekans and Growlithe right away. It was able to solo most of Route 8 because many of the trainers there have Ground-weak pokemon. I evolved it as soon as I reached Celadon, and it has basically been playing like Charizard, using Dig + Body Slam to cover everything. It held its own against Team Rocket and I soloed Erika just fine thanks to the grass resistance (Ember is weak but it did 2HKO Tangela).

Of course, it should be obvious that it wouldn't be anywhere near as good without Dig (Body Slam isn't as important but I had it free so why not?). It needs Dig perhaps even more than Charizard, and because it comes later it is less likely to be free.

Growlithe is at least mid, and that would probably be where I would put it. We'll see though. I'm just about to go through pokemon tower and soon I'll be able to get more of the pokemon I'm testing.

EDIT: I just caught Kangaskhan and Chansey.

Kangaskhan took 12 minutes to get and 1000 pokedollars.
Chansey took 21 minutes to get and 1500 pokedollars.

Thank goodness I didn't have to spend hours getting these. Still, I was lucky and I think when they are tiered we should probably assume that it will take longer than what it took me! These guys are going to have to be AMAZING to make up for their availability.....

Slowpoke has been disappointing. Even Psychic isn't strong enough to one-shot anything and because of its terrible speed it often takes 2 hits before killing anything. I've had to backtrack a few times to heal it. I hope it gets better when it evolves, but still this thing isn't that great so far despite the nice typing, stats (bar speed) and movepool.

[Spork]

^Have you saved Thunderbolt and Ice Beam for Chansey? I can see it having horrible PP issues but being great in battle.

BTW, I'm just about to go into Victory Road on my current run. MVP is probably Venusaur or Golduck. Razor Leaf is godly and Golduck has insane mixed coverage with Surf/Ice Beam/Dig/Strength, but getting it mid-game at level 15 and having to train it for Koga was a huge pain. LVP is Weezing or Magmar. Weezing is actually pretty good between gyms but it unfortunately arrives at a stage where it achieves barely anything in most of the major battles. It's consistent and reliable but it can't really OHKO anything, even with Thunderbolt. Magmar is more powerful and has better coverage, but it falls to a soft breeze and soloing any trainer that it can't hit SE is a losing game without a ton of potions.

Meanwhile, Pidgeot is powerful but it can't really do anything in battle but spam Fly. Dewgong is a solid Water type and STAB Aurora Beam is actually really cool (learning Ice types naturally is another bonus).

Feeling High on Golduck and Venusaur, Mid on Pidgeot, Mid-High on Dewgong (depends what I conclude about its availability) and Low on Weezing and Magmar.

[atsync]

Originally Posted by Fat Spork

^Have you saved Thunderbolt and Ice Beam for Chansey? I can see it having horrible PP issues but being great in battle.

I gave it Thunderbolt (and BubbleBeam) but I already used Ice Beam on Slowpoke. I'll give Blizzard to Chansey later. In hindsight, I probably should have given Slowbro Blizzard instead since it has a significantly lower Special but it's not that important. My final moveset for Chansey will probably be Thunderbolt/Blizzard/BubbleBeam/Softboiled. Softboiled seems kind of cool. Being able to heal team mates sounds very nice and is unique to Chansey. Not sure if it will be enough to get it above Low though...

Also, I thought I would just say that Chansey grinds very well at Pokemon Tower! Immune to Lick, Night Shade does meaningless damage, and there's a healing spot right there. Confuse Ray is a bit annoying but you'd have to be very unlucky to lose a full health Chansey to it.

[Dre89]

Softboiled doesn't heal teammates, it's just heals 50% of chansey's max HP, so it's exactly like recover.

[atsync]

Originally Posted by Fat Dre89

Softboiled doesn't heal teammates, it's just heals 50% of chansey's max HP, so it's exactly like recover.

No actually you're wrong. Outside of battle you can select Softboiled much like you would a HM move and then select a team mate and it will remove some of Chansey's HP and give it to the team mate to heal them.