RU Research Week #9: Gothitelle, Braviary, Sawsbuck, Musharna - Page 2

Level 51 · Sep 2nd, 2012, 4:02:28 AM

How did research week last for so long? :/

august · Sep 2nd, 2012, 10:34:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Level 51

How did research week last for so long? :/

From the OP: Each research week will actually be 2 one week long stages. In the first stage, you are free to theorymon about the pokemon chosen for Research week and talk about what roles / niches they fill and how they fare in the metagame. The second week, feel free to post logs showcasing how the pokemon fared in standard play and talk about how they did in comparison to expectations etc. This extends to IRC, where you can talk about the pokemon / sets you used in either #rarelyused or #pokemon!

Thank you endorfins, for your very detailed post, and for your very successful and creative team :) Did you find Max Speed Jolly Braviary necessary to Speed tie Jolly Gallade? Just curious, as I settled for a spread that beat Max Speed Adamant Kabutops and put the rest in HP and was very satisfied with the additional bulk

Keep em coming guys! Last day!

Endorfins · Sep 2nd, 2012, 5:18:47 PM

Whenever I used Braviary on this team, I made sure that it rarely took hits so the extra bulk wasn't really needed. Also, as you can see, my team is quite vulnerable to Gallade and the rare Timid Nidoqueen. So yeah Jolly Max Speed was the best option for me. I also decided to play test more with Substitute in the last alot as I was rarely using U-turn. As Braviary forces lots of switches, I could easily setup a Substitute. Its funny how people think Kabutops is a good switch in to Braviary when it takes 90+% from a life orb Superpower.

august · Sep 2nd, 2012, 5:35:46 PM

Ah I see. What made you pick U-turn over Substitute or perhaps Bulk Up? Is U-turn + Gothitelle effective in trapping some of Braviary's common counters?

Just playing devils advocate x)

Bigblue · Sep 2nd, 2012, 6:03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Endorfins

Well this is almost over so I might as well post my findings

peaked 4th

team

This team was based around Braviary, I had used Scarf and Band before settling on a 3 attack set + Roost. Roost was the real deal breaker there as without a Spinner, Braviary was just dying too quickly. With a Life Orb, Braviary is immensely strong. Brave Bird and Superpower were standard and U-turn lets me scout, building a semi volt-turn team alongside Rotom-C and Lanturn. Roost is Braviary's new move from BW2 and is very useful, Braviary has very good natural bulk and forces alot of switches. It also works against Sucker Punch users who think they can take out Braviary. Roost also mitigates Braviary's Stealth Rock weakness meaning I am not reliant on a Rapid Spinner.

To remove Braviary's counters, I decided to use Gothitelle who can easily trap and destroy physical walls such as Steelix. Shadow Ball was used to hit Rotom and Cofagrigus who can wall Braviary. Instead of the standard Choice Specs, I decided to go with Lum Berry instead. It lets me bluff a Choice item as well as letting Gothitelle take on Lilligant, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Scald Burns etc. Toxic let me put bulky stuff such as Alomomola on a timer.

I then decided to get a defensive core that could take on most of the metagame, Lanturn and Steelix were chosen as the former can grab momentum and heal status while the latter was basically there to setup Stealth Rock, check some physical attackers and abuse Sturdy if I misplayed. Lanturn also took on the very popular Moltres and Magmortar. Another good thing about Lanturn is that it basically forces Nidoqueen to use Earth Power meaning I could switch into Braviary and wreck havoc.

Rotom-C was chosen because it is the best Scarfer in the tier.

The last slot was actually first Swords Dance Sawsbuck which is another research week mon. Unfortuntely, it just wasn't fast enough after a boost and easily revenge killed. Then I tried Lilligant and Klinklang before finally settling on Crawdaunt. Pretty standard sweeper that destroys teams if scarfers have been removed. Gothitelle easily traps and kills Poliwrath, Ferroseed, and Tangrowth (Lum Berry for Sleep Powder :)

I found this team to be one of the most reliable i have ever used, probably becuase it doesn't rely on shitty moves like Focus Blast and Fire Blast. A Solid defensive core, scarfer, and sweepers just like any other balanced team.

Nice I find it interesting we both used steelix/lanturn core and a crawdaunt which got us both above rank 10 on PS.

DetroitLolcat · Sep 3rd, 2012, 1:34:47 AM

Musharna's cleric set:

Musharna @ Leftovers
Trait: Forewarn
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Heal Bell
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave
- Moonlight

Honestly, it's not good. Musharna is not that useful of a Pokemon in a tier that has Uxie, Gothitelle, and Mesprit. Musharna's only niche role is the Cleric set, as Choice Specs is done better by Gothitelle, Calm Mind is done better by Mesprit, and general support is done better by Uxie. Musharna's support set is much like Uxie's, except you replace Levitate with "generic terrible ability" and Stealth Rock with Heal Bell.

Heal Bell support in RU is not very useful. RU is a pretty fast-paced tier in which most teams carry multiple sweepers, so if status cripples one Pokemon it's usually not that big a deal. Furthermore, most teams carry Pokemon immune to status whether it be Ground-types for Thunder Wave, Steel types for Toxic, or Fire-types for Will-O-Wisp (that last one's a stretch, but Burn is the least common status ailment out of the big 3). Plus, status moves in RU are just not too common. Most support Pokemon do carry status moves, but they don't use them often. Support Pokemon(read: Uxie :P) generally want to attack, set up hazards, and maybe use a status move if there really is no other option. Not to mention that the biggest threat in RU, Nidoqueen, is immune to the two most common status moves in the game.

Musharna's role as a cleric supporter is just not something RU needs. Uxie's better because it can use Stealth Rock, an infinitely more useful support move than Heal Bell. This is because if you use Stealth Rock on your support Pokemon (all teams use at least one team support Pokemon, but not all use 2), you won't have to use another support Pokemon. When I used Musharna on my offensive team, I found that I had to throw Stealth Rock on one of my offensive Pokemon, which greatly reduced the team's effectiveness.

Needless to say Musharna is not a good Pokemon for an offensive team. It's a decent option for a balanced team or a defensive team, but it's not spectacular either. Lots of things set up on it, and it doesn't have the raw defensive stats to wall mixed. It can either go Physical defense and wall the likes of Feraligatr, or go Special and give Moltres a hard time. Regardless, any sweeper with recovery lols at Musharna because Musharna can't 2HKO anything without significant investment anyway.

The one use that Musharna has, however, is that it can recover health and spread status. Though Uxie can perform the "status tank" role better in a general sense because of Stealth Rock and Levitate, Musharna can hang longer because of Moonlight. Moonlight means it can beat Nidoqueen without falling to 18% health in the meantime. It also lets Musharna handle Moltres better. Musharna can switch into threats better than Moltres can because Musharna doesn't care about 3HKOs while Uxie does.

Musharna is best paired with sweepers who can punch holes early game, take a status move, and then clean up late game with their status cured. Lilligant is a good example of a partner because it can Sleep something, punch a hole in the opponent with a Life Orb Giga Drain, take a Toxic or Wave, and then lead a comeback after Musharna rings its bell. Dragon Dance Feraligatr is an okay example of this as well since he can't reliably deal with any of the 3 status effects well. This role seems rather useful because it gives sweepers a new lease on life, but then you realize that most sweepers in UU use Substitute to get rid of status. Sceptile, Klinklang, Moltres, etc. all commonly use Sub (well not sceptile always but he's usually too busy killing everything to care).

Overall, Musharna is a niche Pokemon. He's good on teams that have Sub-less sweepers, but other than that Uxie is a better supporter for teams because of Stealth Rock and Levitate. If Musharna had Stealth Rock in its repertoire, then it'd be a pretty tough cookie in RU IMO.

will edit this with a ladder if I get that far

Endorfins · Sep 3rd, 2012, 3:34:38 AM

Edit: GOTH is banned noooooooo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat august

Ah I see. What made you pick U-turn over Substitute or perhaps Bulk Up? Is U-turn + Gothitelle effective in trapping some of Braviary's common counters?

Just playing devils advocate x)

Originally, U-turn was there to switch in Gothitelle against Pokemon such as Steelix, however i found myself using U-turn less as it was quite easy to trap Steelix and other defensive Rock/Steel-types as they started to setup Stealth Rock. Braviary's awesome power also meant that Superpower would be tearing huge chunks of their HP. I've now changed to Substitute which is very useful when scouting, although it does stack on residual damage which Braviary doesn't like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Bigblue

Nice I find it interesting we both used steelix/lanturn core and a crawdaunt which got us both above rank 10 on PS.

Yeah, Steelix + Lanturn has replaced Slowking + Steelix! Its a very solid defensive core that is only really weak to Ground moves, a perfect opportunity for Braviary to come in!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DetroitLolcat

Honestly, it's not good. Musharna is not that useful of a Pokemon in a tier that has Uxie, Gothitelle, and Mesprit. Musharna's only niche role is the Cleric set, as Choice Specs is done better by Gothitelle, Calm Mind is done better by Mesprit, and general support is done better by Uxie. Musharna's support set is much like Uxie's, except you replace Levitate with "generic terrible ability" and Stealth Rock with Heal Bell.

I used Musharna early on in this research week and although it wasn't amazing, I don't think Calm Mind sets are completely outclassed by Mesprit and Uxie

Musharna (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell

Unlike Mesprit and Uxie, Musharna has Synchronize (better than Forewarn), which along with Heal Bell, lets it outstall walls hoping to stall it with Toxic. When they Toxic you, they'll be Toxiced as well. You can then Heal Bell away the status once Toxic begins stacking up. Not that amazing, but much better now that Gothitelle is banned. After further playtesting, I can establish that Musharna is very very bulky, it can easily setup Calm Minds and start sweeping. It takes 35% from a Life Orb Druddigon Outrage! After a Calm Mind almost nothing can OHKO it. Good partners are Pokemon that can get rid of Drapion / Spiritomb as they can wall and Pursuit trap Musharna.

252 Atk Choice Band Spiritomb (+Atk) Pursuit vs 252 HP/252 Def Musharna (+Def) : 62.61% - 74.31%
2 hits to KO
Musharna can live and come back in if need be!

HuntSaboteur · Sep 3rd, 2012, 7:40:47 AM

Musharna does indeed have a problem with so many opposing Psychics and Darks in RU. The only things it seems to have in its favour are access to Moonlight and a better ability than Uxie or Emurit coupled with Heal Bell, which basically is a sort of Psycho Shift alternative that also clears other status effects in your team.

Also, you forgot that you can't really switch out at all on a Pursuit Pokemon. I'm assuming your stat is for Pursuit without switching. It would be a 1HKO with switching, and you'd want to switch anyway as all you have as an attack is Psychic.

august · Sep 4th, 2012, 11:39:43 AM

The new Research Week pokemon are posted! Remember that you are not limited to the sets encompassed by the challenges! You can use any set for the Research Week pokemon! :)

Sep 2nd, 2012, 4:02:28 AM	#26
Level 51 barely clinging on Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 755 Location: Singapore ^.^	How did research week last for so long? :/ __________________ Back to school, gg contribution rate [15:59] <&@chaos\|away> i hence forth make it official: im better than arcticblast [15:59] <&@chaos\|away> spread the word

Sep 2nd, 2012, 5:18:47 PM	#28
Endorfins Your Worst Nightmare Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 546 Australia	Whenever I used Braviary on this team, I made sure that it rarely took hits so the extra bulk wasn't really needed. Also, as you can see, my team is quite vulnerable to Gallade and the rare Timid Nidoqueen. So yeah Jolly Max Speed was the best option for me. I also decided to play test more with Substitute in the last alot as I was rarely using U-turn. As Braviary forces lots of switches, I could easily setup a Substitute. Its funny how people think Kabutops is a good switch in to Braviary when it takes 90+% from a life orb Superpower. __________________ RU Sun Article\|NU Sun Article GeekyLatios: Does Golem even get EQ?

Sep 2nd, 2012, 5:35:46 PM	#29
august testin testin i told her smith n wesson Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,822 endlesshighways.tumblr.com	Ah I see. What made you pick U-turn over Substitute or perhaps Bulk Up? Is U-turn + Gothitelle effective in trapping some of Braviary's common counters? Just playing devils advocate x) __________________ (00:06) main: nice flinch hax (00:06) main: also fuck you (00:06) The other party left the server, so the window was disabled. Marth: august is shit i can take that guy in any tier

Sep 3rd, 2012, 1:34:47 AM	#31
DetroitLolcat It's Great! To Be! A Michigan Wolverine! Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,795	Musharna's cleric set: Musharna @ Leftovers Trait: Forewarn EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk Calm Nature - Heal Bell - Psychic - Thunder Wave - Moonlight Honestly, it's not good. Musharna is not that useful of a Pokemon in a tier that has Uxie, Gothitelle, and Mesprit. Musharna's only niche role is the Cleric set, as Choice Specs is done better by Gothitelle, Calm Mind is done better by Mesprit, and general support is done better by Uxie. Musharna's support set is much like Uxie's, except you replace Levitate with "generic terrible ability" and Stealth Rock with Heal Bell. Heal Bell support in RU is not very useful. RU is a pretty fast-paced tier in which most teams carry multiple sweepers, so if status cripples one Pokemon it's usually not that big a deal. Furthermore, most teams carry Pokemon immune to status whether it be Ground-types for Thunder Wave, Steel types for Toxic, or Fire-types for Will-O-Wisp (that last one's a stretch, but Burn is the least common status ailment out of the big 3). Plus, status moves in RU are just not too common. Most support Pokemon do carry status moves, but they don't use them often. Support Pokemon(read: Uxie :P) generally want to attack, set up hazards, and maybe use a status move if there really is no other option. Not to mention that the biggest threat in RU, Nidoqueen, is immune to the two most common status moves in the game. Musharna's role as a cleric supporter is just not something RU needs. Uxie's better because it can use Stealth Rock, an infinitely more useful support move than Heal Bell. This is because if you use Stealth Rock on your support Pokemon (all teams use at least one team support Pokemon, but not all use 2), you won't have to use another support Pokemon. When I used Musharna on my offensive team, I found that I had to throw Stealth Rock on one of my offensive Pokemon, which greatly reduced the team's effectiveness. Needless to say Musharna is not a good Pokemon for an offensive team. It's a decent option for a balanced team or a defensive team, but it's not spectacular either. Lots of things set up on it, and it doesn't have the raw defensive stats to wall mixed. It can either go Physical defense and wall the likes of Feraligatr, or go Special and give Moltres a hard time. Regardless, any sweeper with recovery lols at Musharna because Musharna can't 2HKO anything without significant investment anyway. The one use that Musharna has, however, is that it can recover health and spread status. Though Uxie can perform the "status tank" role better in a general sense because of Stealth Rock and Levitate, Musharna can hang longer because of Moonlight. Moonlight means it can beat Nidoqueen without falling to 18% health in the meantime. It also lets Musharna handle Moltres better. Musharna can switch into threats better than Moltres can because Musharna doesn't care about 3HKOs while Uxie does. Musharna is best paired with sweepers who can punch holes early game, take a status move, and then clean up late game with their status cured. Lilligant is a good example of a partner because it can Sleep something, punch a hole in the opponent with a Life Orb Giga Drain, take a Toxic or Wave, and then lead a comeback after Musharna rings its bell. Dragon Dance Feraligatr is an okay example of this as well since he can't reliably deal with any of the 3 status effects well. This role seems rather useful because it gives sweepers a new lease on life, but then you realize that most sweepers in UU use Substitute to get rid of status. Sceptile, Klinklang, Moltres, etc. all commonly use Sub (well not sceptile always but he's usually too busy killing everything to care). Overall, Musharna is a niche Pokemon. He's good on teams that have Sub-less sweepers, but other than that Uxie is a better supporter for teams because of Stealth Rock and Levitate. If Musharna had Stealth Rock in its repertoire, then it'd be a pretty tough cookie in RU IMO. will edit this with a ladder if I get that far __________________ Favorite Pokemon-Swampert- formerly OU and staying that way. Cats are awesome, the best kind of cat is the Detroit Lion! Lolcat Nuzlocke Story http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou11556879

Sep 3rd, 2012, 7:40:47 AM	#33
HuntSaboteur Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 170 Anywhere except USA	Musharna does indeed have a problem with so many opposing Psychics and Darks in RU. The only things it seems to have in its favour are access to Moonlight and a better ability than Uxie or Emurit coupled with Heal Bell, which basically is a sort of Psycho Shift alternative that also clears other status effects in your team. Also, you forgot that you can't really switch out at all on a Pursuit Pokemon. I'm assuming your stat is for Pursuit without switching. It would be a 1HKO with switching, and you'd want to switch anyway as all you have as an attack is Psychic. __________________ Back to testing.

Sep 4th, 2012, 11:39:43 AM	#34
august testin testin i told her smith n wesson Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,822 endlesshighways.tumblr.com	The new Research Week pokemon are posted! Remember that you are not limited to the sets encompassed by the challenges! You can use any set for the Research Week pokemon! :) __________________ (00:06) main: nice flinch hax (00:06) main: also fuck you (00:06) The other party left the server, so the window was disabled. Marth: august is shit i can take that guy in any tier Last edited by DittoCrow; Sep 4th, 2012 at 3:02:40 PM.