Pokemon of the Week #7 Dragonite - Page 4

NoUserName · Oct 15th, 2012, 2:27:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Neliel Tu Oderschvank

I think that its something like Rest-Sleep Talk- Lava plume-Roar
Just use max hp and max special defense to take hits.

I use Toxic instead of Roar, because I have another mon with Roar which is more reliable for me. Toxic is good because catches bulky waters in surprise and avoids to become a setup fodder.

I have never been a good fan of the randomly Sleep Talk, but it isn't useless.

Neliel · Oct 15th, 2012, 2:32:53 PM

Idk, i think that roar is superior because it can phaze things locked into outrage.

NoUserName · Oct 15th, 2012, 2:38:04 PM

I am saying that depends on the team, not that Roar is worse.

Jorgen · Oct 15th, 2012, 2:39:10 PM

I'm not too big a fan of Heatran. It's just too inconsistent. I mean it's the best thing ever on/against sun teams, and it's a great mon in neutral weathers especially since it handles Genesect like no other, but in rain, the most common weather, it's absolute dead weight. You need to run Heatran with some sort of non-Rain weather to avoid Rain teams forcing you into a 5v6. Either that or you run the Sunny Day set on a weatherless team.

ClubbingSealCub · Oct 15th, 2012, 2:44:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Jorgen

I'm not too big a fan of Heatran. It's just too inconsistent. I mean it's the best thing ever on/against sun teams, and it's a great mon in neutral weathers especially since it handles Genesect like no other, but in rain, the most common weather, it's absolute dead weight. You need to run Heatran with some sort of non-Rain weather to avoid Rain teams forcing you into a 5v6. Either that or you run the Sunny Day set on a weatherless team.

That's the beauty of TrapperTran - since it's seen as "harmless" against Rain, everyone and their mother is eager to just throw Toed into him to regain weather control, fearing a Toxic at worst. Then you Sunny Day and OHKO.

Dark Fallen Angel · Oct 15th, 2012, 3:54:15 PM

With exception of the Magma Storm set, this is unfortunately true, Heatran is almost dead weight against rain teams, and is not going to defeat any bulky Water if either it is not weak to Earth Power, or if it carries Hidden Power Grass. Problem using Hidden Power Grass is that Hidden Power Ice is necessary to get past Dragons. Using Dragon Pulse is not a good idea since Hidden Power Ice is going to do more damage to Salamence and Dragonite, the two most common dragons (and Garchomp, wich is going to be common, also takes more from Hidden Power Ice).

Also: Maybe this is the reason why I found Heatran to be an unreliable SRer. I've never used defensive sets; I can't say if they are bad or good at using Stealth Rock. Maybe offensive sets with a free slot shouldn't use that free slot for Stealth Rock, unless absolutely necessary, but instead for something like Toxic, or Flame Charge, or Taunt.

I've found Toxic to be the best option, since at least with Toxic, Heatran is not completely dead weight against opposing rain teams; at least it can Toxic Politoed so that the weather war becomes easier to win, or I can prevent that CM Keldeo sweep. Still, Heatran can't do much outside of this, and it is forced to either switch out, or die by the hands of the opposing Water-type, so that I can give to my Pokémon a safe switch-in.

Flame Charge is also a good option to sweep, but Heatran should only be used as a late-game sweeper, and the lack of Life Orb is noticeable if you aren't using this - plus your STAB is innacurate.

I've never used Taunt but while on paper it is good, it is not necessary to use it to know that it is not going to help against offensive pokémon (with exception of sub/setup sweepers), and also doesn't help against certain pink fat balls that can still Seismic Toss you to death.

Even though it is less accurate, I am testing using Will-O-Wisp. I think that it will be a great surprise against Terrakions, Stoutlands, Brelooms, Gyarados, that think that the coast is safe. And I think that will be better against Politoed since it will be rarely staying more than three turns.

Husky · Oct 15th, 2012, 4:25:33 PM

You just hit 2/2 Pokemon out of my currently most used team and I somehow feel I have to post here now.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
Moves:
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power Ice / Dragon Pulse

This set is very underestimated and get a truckload of opportunities to set up Substitute for free. Taunt is used over a third coverage move for good reason: It stops Heatran becoming setup fodder for whatever the opponent might bring, may it be hazards, setup moves such as SwordsDance / Nasty Plot / Quiver Dance, shutting down recovery moves, and even block phazing is just a great thing.

With just two attacking options, it's arguably less threatening, as it will lose coverage to deal with other Heatran and most Water-type Pokemon due to the lack of Earth Power (not to mention no one would ever let Heatran in on a Politoed, Jellicent, or Rotom-W, to make a few examples). Still, this Heatran has no problems with any sort of being trapped, as it pretty much demolishes any OU trapper 1v1 .. even the rarely seen Wobbuffet.

tehy · Oct 15th, 2012, 5:35:10 PM

I find it to be highly annoying that people classify heatran as "dead weight" against rain teams. I love it that people switch politoed in to him-more 30% burn chance for me, thank you very much! Same goes for tenta-have fun healing now, SON! And rotom-w? With SR up and burn down, that's 25% of his life he loses every switch-in, 18% with lefties, which means he has to pain split occasionally, or just die. Keldeo doesn't care that much, but he can still be burned, even though he doesn't care much about it. Dragonite can switch in, but he obviously hates burn;the lum sets care less, but even they like to outrage for free. Vaporeon doesn't give two shits, i suppose.

Still, that's a lot of common rain switch-ins that don't like burn, and every time they switch into heatran they risk it. So it's definitely not dead weight against rain.

Chimpakt · Oct 15th, 2012, 6:08:27 PM

The trapping Heatran is very good, but Scarf Politoed can potentially be a problem (It's only used 15% of the time on Politoed though). One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is Magma Storm with Taunt over HP Ice so that you are able to beat Blissey as well as other weathers. You would definitely need strong answers to Dragon types on your team if you're going to go that route, but it easily beats blissey unless they run Thunder Wave and get lucky with parahax.

I also don't understand why people are running torment tran. It's really not effective in this metagame. It makes you vulnerable to u-turn + dugtrio and the metagame right now is geared to be very offensive.

Electrolyte · Oct 15th, 2012, 6:18:50 PM

I think Heatran's offensive sets are severely underestimated. That base 130 Special attack, equivalent to Latios's, and much more natural bulk. GMD already posted the Trapper set, so I'm not going to repost it, but the sheer number of pokemon Heatran can OHKO under the Sun is a lot more than you'd think. Magma Storm does upwards to 70% to Deoxys-D, and 50% to Latios. It cleanly OHKO's Gliscor and SpDef Jirachi and Celebi, as well as breaking through sashes and sturdies to KO Dugtrio, Donphan, Forretress, and Alakazam. SolarBeam is awesome on that set, KO'ing most bulky waters with ease, especially Politoed. HP Ice is great as well, nailing Salamence and Dragonite, two pain in the asses.

Dark Fallen Angel · Oct 15th, 2012, 6:21:26 PM

@tehy: Sure that you can burn Politoed and other waters, but apart from this, what you can do back? Phaze? Attack? None of Heatran's attacks will hurt them except Hidden Power Grass or Solarbeam, both wich only are used on offensive sets. And phazing is only a temporary solution, and doesn't help when you are dealing with the last pokémon on the team. I still think that Heatran performs poorly against rain teams and Water-types in general, since against Water-types, the best that you can do if you don't have Hidden Power Grass is to status or Taunt them, then switch out to something that can beat them while they are crippled. Of course, this don't apply to the Magma Storm + Sunny Day set, wich when used correctly, can perform well against every Water-type.

@Chimpakt: Yes, Scarf Politoed is definitively a problem, as well as other scarfed Water-types that otherwise would be slower. But nothing is perfect, and you must also be prepared to deal with these sets. Fortunately they are uncommon.

Also, I've used a Magma Storm set with Taunt, Protect and Will-O-Wisp. It was a good stallbreaker capable of beating even the pink blobs, but there are better sets. Speaking of Hidden Power Ice and Taunt, I've found extremelly annonying trying to deal with Fire-types, especially opposing Heatran, without Earth Power. Despite being capable of walling most Fire-types, I've used a Magma Storm + Sunny Day set with Hidden Power Ice in place of Earth Power, and most of time, opposing Fire-types also walled him, leaving Heatran in a position where neither me nor the opponent were capable of hurting each other. I've managed to engage many PP stall battles with opposing Heatran that also didn't used Earth Power because of this fact, PP stall battles that I didn't had before.

**Tobes** · Oct 15th, 2012, 7:05:05 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again: ALWAYS use Earth Power on Weather Trapper Tran unless you're running Dugtrio or are just unbelievably weak to Dragon-types. The set's effectiveness is severely diminished when an opposing Heatran can switch in with complete safety.

Also I had expected WTTran to be less effective in BW2 since I had anticipated a rise in Scarftoed (which bones WTTran) in order to combat Tornadus-T. However in spite of my expectations bulky Politoed is still common so *shrug* Keldeo in rain is quite annoying for this set though since Secret Sword lets it switch in and not give two shots about Sunny Day.

tehy · Oct 15th, 2012, 8:35:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Dark Fallen Angel

@tehy: Sure that you can burn Politoed and other waters, but apart from this, what you can do back? Phaze? Attack? None of Heatran's attacks will hurt them except Hidden Power Grass or Solarbeam, both wich only are used on offensive sets. And phazing is only a temporary solution, and doesn't help when you are dealing with the last pokémon on the team. I still think that Heatran performs poorly against rain teams and Water-types in general, since against Water-types, the best that you can do if you don't have Hidden Power Grass is to status or Taunt them, then switch out to something that can beat them while they are crippled. Of course, this don't apply to the Magma Storm + Sunny Day set, wich when used correctly, can perform well against every Water-type.

@Chimpakt: Yes, Scarf Politoed is definitively a problem, as well as other scarfed Water-types that otherwise would be slower. But nothing is perfect, and you must also be prepared to deal with these sets. Fortunately they are uncommon.

Also, I've used a Magma Storm set with Taunt, Protect and Will-O-Wisp. It was a good stallbreaker capable of beating even the pink blobs, but there are better sets. Speaking of Hidden Power Ice and Taunt, I've found extremelly annonying trying to deal with Fire-types, especially opposing Heatran, without Earth Power. Despite being capable of walling most Fire-types, I've used a Magma Storm + Sunny Day set with Hidden Power Ice in place of Earth Power, and most of time, opposing Fire-types also walled him, leaving Heatran in a position where neither me nor the opponent were capable of hurting each other. I've managed to engage many PP stall battles with opposing Heatran that also didn't used Earth Power because of this fact, PP stall battles that I didn't had before.

Silly! Once he's burned poli/rotomw/tenta, he's already done his job. That one burn is generally pivotal to the match, and that's all i really want him to do, espc. on tenta or poli-them being burned means i win the weather war or the hazards war 99%. Suicide leads like deoxys-D do the same thing, no one says they're "dead weight", and heatran can do much more against other teams, take hits especially. So he's not even close to dead weight.

The Great Mighty Doom · Oct 15th, 2012, 11:26:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Tobes

I've said it before and I'll say it again: ALWAYS use Earth Power on Weather Trapper Tran unless you're running Dugtrio or are just unbelievably weak to Dragon-types. The set's effectiveness is severely diminished when an opposing Heatran can switch in with complete safety.

I 100% agree with this, however, I've personally never ran the WTTtran set on a team without a Dugtrio before. They make a great weather trapping pair and my sun teams generally appreciate Heatran being gone. It's worth mentioning that if you put Earth Power on Heatran then you may want to change it's spread to: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef 252 Spd to speed tie with other Timid Heatran.

ganj4lF · Oct 16th, 2012, 3:31:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Husky

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
Moves:
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power Ice / Dragon Pulse

Back in BW1 I used a slight variation of this that impressed me a lot. Not quite new, it's even listed onsite, but still...

Heatran @ Leftovers | Flash Fire
Timid | 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Toxic

With Toxic, limited coverage is not a huge problem; many things that can wall / set up on Heatran are crippled by Toxic (all Dragons, except Refresh Latias maybe, Water types, etc). Earth Power means you're not dead weight against an opposing Heatran, and allows to get a solid hit on Poison types that you don't want to hit with Fire Blast for some reason. This set may be trickier to play in BW2 meta infested by GeneDugtrio chains, however it still has its niches in a strong special attacker that can spread status if necessary, making him a little less useless against Water switch-ins.

FaceFaceFace · Oct 16th, 2012, 5:54:33 AM

I've found that defensive Heatran sets are becoming a lot less useful in this BW2, almost to a niche.

Perhaps it's time for bulky offense Heatran of some sort to shine, and ganj4lF's set is looking pretty good right now.

Husky · Oct 16th, 2012, 7:57:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Electrolyte

It cleanly OHKO's Gliscor and SpDef Jirachi and Celebi, as well as breaking through sashes and sturdies to KO Dugtrio, Donphan, Forretress, and Alakazam.

Doesn't Magic Guard prevent end-of-turn damage from Magma Storm? I'm fairly certain, Focus Sash Alakazam can beat Trapper Heatran easily 1v1.

NoUserName · Oct 16th, 2012, 11:24:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Husky

Doesn't Magic Guard prevent end-of-turn damage from Magma Storm? I'm fairly certain, Focus Sash Alakazam can beat Trapper Heatran easily 1v1.

Apparently it doesn't prevent damage of such moves.

Quote:

moves such as Fire Spin will cause damage as normal.

From the Web of the description of Magic Guard:
http://www.smogon.com/bw/abilities/magic_guard

Agent Gibbs · Oct 16th, 2012, 11:50:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Dark Fallen Angel

A physical set for Heatran? Won't a special set be just as effective? Especially considering that Iron Head has poor coverage and Explosion does laughable damage nowadays.

Anyway, my favorite set is:

Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Toxic

It is just a offensive set that helps me with some things. First, it scares away any dragon that doesn't carry a Fighting or Water move. It is also my counter to Genesect, Forretress, Ferrothorn, Scizor, opposing Heatran and Celebi, even those with Earth Power. It also checks many things, such as Gliscor. As long as I can mantain Air Balloon intact, Heatran can counter or check many things that it couldn't otherwise. From there, using the appropriate move is the way to go.

Toxic is chosen in the last slot to surprise bulky Water-type switch-ins. When my Heatran is no longer necessary, this move can surprise cripple them. With the nerf of Explosion, this is my only way to make Heatran have some utility after it has done its job. I am thinking of replacing this with Will-O-Wisp, so that I can surprise things like Gyarados and Fighting-types. And many bulky Waters are just as crippled by a burn as they would be by Toxic.

I actually used this exact same set on a team of mine that I used during BW1 and revised for BW2. Since I swapped out Gliscor for Landorus-T with Stealth Rock, I had a free slot to use on Heatran. I decided to test out Toxic, and it's deceptively effective. Heatran naturally lures out Pokemon like Tyranitar, Blissey/Chansey, and bulky Waters, and Toxic has the potential to cripple these usual counters (besides maybe Blissey and Chansey, to an extent) when normally Heatran would have little it could do back.

I also noticed that someone in another thread mentioned Rocky Helmet Heatran. I've tested this a little in the past, and it's actually a nasty surprise for those annoying Scarf Genesects that like to U-turn all over you. It won't help much against DuggySect, but it is useful against Genesect alone. It's also kinda cool for punishing Outrage users and knocking 1/6 HP off of a random Terrakion or something if you just want to sack Heatran.

Husky · Oct 16th, 2012, 11:54:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat NoUserName

Apparently it doesn't prevent damage of such moves.

From the Web of the description of Magic Guard:
http://www.smogon.com/bw/abilities/magic_guard

I just tested it InGame and now I can surely say that this is not the case. Magic Guard prevents Alakazam from taking Magma Storm's residual damage at the end of the turn!

~~Murk~~ · Oct 16th, 2012, 12:09:50 PM

Bubbly has a really cool Tran set which he used against me in a PO tourney, it was a basic bulky SR set with Rocky Helmet and I think some physical defense investment. I've been using it on a few teams today and it absolutely ruins Genesect, which is fantastic :)

Dark Fallen Angel · Oct 16th, 2012, 1:20:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Agent Gibbs

I actually used this exact same set on a team of mine that I used during BW1 and revised for BW2. Since I swapped out Gliscor for Landorus-T with Stealth Rock, I had a free slot to use on Heatran. I decided to test out Toxic, and it's deceptively effective. Heatran naturally lures out Pokemon like Tyranitar, Blissey/Chansey, and bulky Waters, and Toxic has the potential to cripple these usual counters (besides maybe Blissey and Chansey, to an extent) when normally Heatran would have little it could do back.

Toxic is really effective, but at the moment I am testing Will-O-Wisp. Is not as accurate as Toxic, and can be stalled out by pokémon with reliable recovery. Still, it is a nasty surprise to that many Fighting-types (not named Conkeldurr or Infernape) and Gyarados, that love switching-in, not to mention that Heatran can survive one Earthquake from a non-Choice Band Dugtrio if it manages to burn him:

252Atk burned Dugtrio (Neutral) Earthquake vs 4HP/0Def Flash Fire Heatran (Neutral): 70% - 82% (228 - 268 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

This gives time to Heatran attack back; even with Focus Sash, thanks to the burn residual damage, Dugtrio will not survive the first blow. It's a shame that Heatran will be severely injured in process, but you can always use Wish support so that Heatran can live to counter Genesect.

Will-O-Wisp as of now saved me from being swept by Stoutland against an opposing sandstorm team. I will continue to test to see how much opponents it will actually lure.

Lavos Spawn · Oct 16th, 2012, 2:36:52 PM

As DFA and Gibbs have been pointing out, there are definitely more 4th moveslot options for offensive Balloon Heatran than just Stealth Rock, especially since with the advent of a SR tutor in BW2, way more Pokemon can fill the role of a hazard setter on teams nowadays, as opposed to in BW1 where it was a relatively small pool of Pokemon that could fill said role.

An offensive Flame Charge set has always intrigued me, it has great surprise factor and Heatran can make an excellent late-game cleaner as well. Any thoughts on this set? I used it in BW1 for a little bit, but I haven't tried it at all in this new metagame.

Neliel · Oct 16th, 2012, 2:48:47 PM

I tried this set of flame charge Heatran (under sun) just to destroy your team lavos xd

Heatran (M) @ Air Baloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Flame Charge
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]

to tell you the truth its not even the best thing to sweep, because Politoed and tyranitar can stop you easily, and scarf mon like Terrakion can still outspeed and kill you.

Finchinator · Oct 16th, 2012, 2:48:57 PM

I ran baloon tran with 3 attacks and roar.
To be honest, roar seemed random to me at first but, it worked out extremelt well for me.
The set was: Max Sp Atk Max Speed +speed
Fire Blast/HPICE/Earth Power/Roar

Oct 15th, 2012, 2:32:53 PM	#77
Neliel Victors must always speak of the way the world should be, not the way it is. Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 476 Mentor	Idk, i think that roar is superior because it can phaze things locked into outrage. __________________ Check out team of the week!

Oct 15th, 2012, 2:38:04 PM	#78
NoUserName Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 464	I am saying that depends on the team, not that Roar is worse. __________________ Friend Code Black: 1291 8464 3703 Standard rules, I use legal hacks from Pokesav. Don't use unreleased abilities, moves and items. Wonder Launcher Off, Voice Chat Off

Oct 15th, 2012, 3:54:15 PM	#81
Dark Fallen Angel No, I do not speak German, but I wish I could. Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 775 ON A GIRL ROOM :3 :3 :3	With exception of the Magma Storm set, this is unfortunately true, Heatran is almost dead weight against rain teams, and is not going to defeat any bulky Water if either it is not weak to Earth Power, or if it carries Hidden Power Grass. Problem using Hidden Power Grass is that Hidden Power Ice is necessary to get past Dragons. Using Dragon Pulse is not a good idea since Hidden Power Ice is going to do more damage to Salamence and Dragonite, the two most common dragons (and Garchomp, wich is going to be common, also takes more from Hidden Power Ice). Also: Maybe this is the reason why I found Heatran to be an unreliable SRer. I've never used defensive sets; I can't say if they are bad or good at using Stealth Rock. Maybe offensive sets with a free slot shouldn't use that free slot for Stealth Rock, unless absolutely necessary, but instead for something like Toxic, or Flame Charge, or Taunt. I've found Toxic to be the best option, since at least with Toxic, Heatran is not completely dead weight against opposing rain teams; at least it can Toxic Politoed so that the weather war becomes easier to win, or I can prevent that CM Keldeo sweep. Still, Heatran can't do much outside of this, and it is forced to either switch out, or die by the hands of the opposing Water-type, so that I can give to my Pokémon a safe switch-in. Flame Charge is also a good option to sweep, but Heatran should only be used as a late-game sweeper, and the lack of Life Orb is noticeable if you aren't using this - plus your STAB is innacurate. I've never used Taunt but while on paper it is good, it is not necessary to use it to know that it is not going to help against offensive pokémon (with exception of sub/setup sweepers), and also doesn't help against certain pink fat balls that can still Seismic Toss you to death. Even though it is less accurate, I am testing using Will-O-Wisp. I think that it will be a great surprise against Terrakions, Stoutlands, Brelooms, Gyarados, that think that the coast is safe. And I think that will be better against Politoed since it will be rarely staying more than three turns. __________________ I am a 18 year old guy that lives on Brazil. I have my own desires and goals, for example, I plan to become a voice actor. I also plan to become a mangaka.

Oct 15th, 2012, 4:25:33 PM	#82
Husky Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 344 Germany	You just hit 2/2 Pokemon out of my currently most used team and I somehow feel I have to post here now. Heatran @ Leftovers Ability: Flash Fire EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature Moves: - Substitute - Taunt - Fire Blast - Hidden Power Ice / Dragon Pulse This set is very underestimated and get a truckload of opportunities to set up Substitute for free. Taunt is used over a third coverage move for good reason: It stops Heatran becoming setup fodder for whatever the opponent might bring, may it be hazards, setup moves such as SwordsDance / Nasty Plot / Quiver Dance, shutting down recovery moves, and even block phazing is just a great thing. With just two attacking options, it's arguably less threatening, as it will lose coverage to deal with other Heatran and most Water-type Pokemon due to the lack of Earth Power (not to mention no one would ever let Heatran in on a Politoed, Jellicent, or Rotom-W, to make a few examples). Still, this Heatran has no problems with any sort of being trapped, as it pretty much demolishes any OU trapper 1v1 .. even the rarely seen Wobbuffet. __________________ http://serebii.net/badges/40.pngBlack2 FC: 1893-7539-6848 \|\| using legal hackshttp://serebii.net/badges/45.png current analysis: »QC approved»http://sprites.pokecheck.org/icon/445.png "Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key." -- Jace Huskyhttp://sprites.pokecheck.org/icon/638.png

Oct 15th, 2012, 6:08:27 PM	#84
Chimpakt Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,295 Cole World!	The trapping Heatran is very good, but Scarf Politoed can potentially be a problem (It's only used 15% of the time on Politoed though). One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is Magma Storm with Taunt over HP Ice so that you are able to beat Blissey as well as other weathers. You would definitely need strong answers to Dragon types on your team if you're going to go that route, but it easily beats blissey unless they run Thunder Wave and get lucky with parahax. I also don't understand why people are running torment tran. It's really not effective in this metagame. It makes you vulnerable to u-turn + dugtrio and the metagame right now is geared to be very offensive. __________________ My youtube channel [Pokemon Narrations, Let's Plays] VM me for OU/UU rates. wish i could change my username to chimpact :[

Oct 15th, 2012, 2:39:10 PM	#79
Jorgen Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 712	I'm not too big a fan of Heatran. It's just too inconsistent. I mean it's the best thing ever on/against sun teams, and it's a great mon in neutral weathers especially since it handles Genesect like no other, but in rain, the most common weather, it's absolute dead weight. You need to run Heatran with some sort of non-Rain weather to avoid Rain teams forcing you into a 5v6. Either that or you run the Sunny Day set on a weatherless team.

Oct 15th, 2012, 5:35:10 PM	#83
tehy Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,158	I find it to be highly annoying that people classify heatran as "dead weight" against rain teams. I love it that people switch politoed in to him-more 30% burn chance for me, thank you very much! Same goes for tenta-have fun healing now, SON! And rotom-w? With SR up and burn down, that's 25% of his life he loses every switch-in, 18% with lefties, which means he has to pain split occasionally, or just die. Keldeo doesn't care that much, but he can still be burned, even though he doesn't care much about it. Dragonite can switch in, but he obviously hates burn;the lum sets care less, but even they like to outrage for free. Vaporeon doesn't give two shits, i suppose. Still, that's a lot of common rain switch-ins that don't like burn, and every time they switch into heatran they risk it. So it's definitely not dead weight against rain.

Oct 15th, 2012, 6:18:50 PM	#85
Electrolyte Cause you keep me coming back for more Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,054 And I feel a little better than I did before Mentor	I think Heatran's offensive sets are severely underestimated. That base 130 Special attack, equivalent to Latios's, and much more natural bulk. GMD already posted the Trapper set, so I'm not going to repost it, but the sheer number of pokemon Heatran can OHKO under the Sun is a lot more than you'd think. Magma Storm does upwards to 70% to Deoxys-D, and 50% to Latios. It cleanly OHKO's Gliscor and SpDef Jirachi and Celebi, as well as breaking through sashes and sturdies to KO Dugtrio, Donphan, Forretress, and Alakazam. SolarBeam is awesome on that set, KO'ing most bulky waters with ease, especially Politoed. HP Ice is great as well, nailing Salamence and Dragonite, two pain in the asses. __________________ Stuff (Click!): l l l l l l l l l l VM me for an OU / LC team rate! MURKBRO MAFIA

Oct 15th, 2012, 6:21:26 PM	#86
Dark Fallen Angel No, I do not speak German, but I wish I could. Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 775 ON A GIRL ROOM :3 :3 :3	@tehy: Sure that you can burn Politoed and other waters, but apart from this, what you can do back? Phaze? Attack? None of Heatran's attacks will hurt them except Hidden Power Grass or Solarbeam, both wich only are used on offensive sets. And phazing is only a temporary solution, and doesn't help when you are dealing with the last pokémon on the team. I still think that Heatran performs poorly against rain teams and Water-types in general, since against Water-types, the best that you can do if you don't have Hidden Power Grass is to status or Taunt them, then switch out to something that can beat them while they are crippled. Of course, this don't apply to the Magma Storm + Sunny Day set, wich when used correctly, can perform well against every Water-type. @Chimpakt: Yes, Scarf Politoed is definitively a problem, as well as other scarfed Water-types that otherwise would be slower. But nothing is perfect, and you must also be prepared to deal with these sets. Fortunately they are uncommon. Also, I've used a Magma Storm set with Taunt, Protect and Will-O-Wisp. It was a good stallbreaker capable of beating even the pink blobs, but there are better sets. Speaking of Hidden Power Ice and Taunt, I've found extremelly annonying trying to deal with Fire-types, especially opposing Heatran, without Earth Power. Despite being capable of walling most Fire-types, I've used a Magma Storm + Sunny Day set with Hidden Power Ice in place of Earth Power, and most of time, opposing Fire-types also walled him, leaving Heatran in a position where neither me nor the opponent were capable of hurting each other. I've managed to engage many PP stall battles with opposing Heatran that also didn't used Earth Power because of this fact, PP stall battles that I didn't had before. __________________ I am a 18 year old guy that lives on Brazil. I have my own desires and goals, for example, I plan to become a voice actor. I also plan to become a mangaka.

Oct 15th, 2012, 7:05:05 PM	#87
Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo-woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Moderator Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,255 GONER	I've said it before and I'll say it again: ALWAYS use Earth Power on Weather Trapper Tran unless you're running Dugtrio or are just unbelievably weak to Dragon-types. The set's effectiveness is severely diminished when an opposing Heatran can switch in with complete safety. Also I had expected WTTran to be less effective in BW2 since I had anticipated a rise in Scarftoed (which bones WTTran) in order to combat Tornadus-T. However in spite of my expectations bulky Politoed is still common so shrug Keldeo in rain is quite annoying for this set though since Secret Sword lets it switch in and not give two shots about Sunny Day. __________________

Oct 16th, 2012, 5:54:33 AM	#91
FaceFaceFace Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 177 New Zealand	I've found that defensive Heatran sets are becoming a lot less useful in this BW2, almost to a niche. Perhaps it's time for bulky offense Heatran of some sort to shine, and ganj4lF's set is looking pretty good right now.

Oct 16th, 2012, 12:09:50 PM	#96
~~Murk~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 10	Bubbly has a really cool Tran set which he used against me in a PO tourney, it was a basic bulky SR set with Rocky Helmet and I think some physical defense investment. I've been using it on a few teams today and it absolutely ruins Genesect, which is fantastic :)

Oct 16th, 2012, 2:36:52 PM	#98
Lavos Spawn Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 2,189 Mentor	As DFA and Gibbs have been pointing out, there are definitely more 4th moveslot options for offensive Balloon Heatran than just Stealth Rock, especially since with the advent of a SR tutor in BW2, way more Pokemon can fill the role of a hazard setter on teams nowadays, as opposed to in BW1 where it was a relatively small pool of Pokemon that could fill said role. An offensive Flame Charge set has always intrigued me, it has great surprise factor and Heatran can make an excellent late-game cleaner as well. Any thoughts on this set? I used it in BW1 for a little bit, but I haven't tried it at all in this new metagame.

Oct 16th, 2012, 2:48:47 PM	#99
Neliel Victors must always speak of the way the world should be, not the way it is. Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 476 Mentor	I tried this set of flame charge Heatran (under sun) just to destroy your team lavos xd Heatran (M) @ Air Baloon Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Fire Blast - Flame Charge - Earth Power - Hidden Power [Ice] to tell you the truth its not even the best thing to sweep, because Politoed and tyranitar can stop you easily, and scarf mon like Terrakion can still outspeed and kill you. __________________ Check out team of the week!

Oct 16th, 2012, 2:48:57 PM	#100
Finchinator Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 319 New Jersey	I ran baloon tran with 3 attacks and roar. To be honest, roar seemed random to me at first but, it worked out extremelt well for me. The set was: Max Sp Atk Max Speed +speed Fire Blast/HPICE/Earth Power/Roar __________________ Rips Lizards: Orgasm is pretty good. ^__^ Won the Dragon Span Team Style Tour - OU. OTTER TIME!!