(All Gens) Fire-Types

[Umby]

I know how random this looks, but I'm looking for discussion to gather thoughts on Fire-type Pokemon. I was thinking back to when I thought Charizard and Moltres were high profile threats in ADV because teams were unprepared for them. Since Charizard could deal with Blissey, Snorlax and Tyranitar via Focus Punch and Moltres could just burn them all with Will-o-Wisp, the most consistent response for shutting them down was a bulky water. At the time I'd conceived the thought, I noticed most teams (as in I forgot Suicune existed for at least a month) would carry Swampert more often than Suicune or Milotic, thus the previously mentioned moves combined with Hidden Power [Grass] would rip some teams apart (I played victim to this a couple of times myself vs Floppy).

There was also a separate occasion where I got smashed by a Sunny Day Houndoom in GSC after my Selfdestruct Snorlax got burned.

With Stealth Rock introduced in 4th gen, it seems like only Heatran and Infernape escaped the fate of becoming less viable as a Fire-type.

So what I am asking for is this:
When are Fire-types at the pinnacle of their viability throughout each gen? What helps them to generally become threatening or more useful in any OU environment? What are the best/most viable Fire-types for each gen and why? What other issues does this type have in general that I may have overlooked?

Originally Posted by Fat A Glance At Fire-Types

RBY - Fire moves can burn, which is a generally undesirable status to try and inflict, since Pokemon like Starmie will sop it up and avoid paralysis and sleep for the rest of the game. On the flip side, these moves can burn Golem/Rhydon if they're forced to come in, which hinders their offensive abilities. On that note, Fire-types are often lacking in their movepools, so they won't be inflicting much damage outside of Fire Blast and will probably have to resort to Body Slam in hopes of inflicting paralysis.

GSC - Sunny Day is introduced and gives Fire-types some time to shine (pun...intended). However most of them still suffer from frailty issues, moreso now that more Pokemon are carrying Earthquake and Surf. Hidden Power helps a little in alleviating some damage issues, but only Charizard is really packing the heat needed to break through the opponent's teams.

ADV - Things are tricky here. With new moves and abilities, Pokemon like Charizard, Moltres, Houndoom and Camerupt can indeed become nuisances if they pick the right spots to induce havoc...but they're even more frail than before due to the introduction of EVs and suffer from Sandstorm constantly being in play. Grounded Fire-types also have to deal with Dugtrio lurking in the corner.

DPP - You'll have to help me out here. My knowledge base in this gen is limited, but my immediate view is that everything but Infernape and Heatran are invalidated from combining general, pre-existing Fire-type problems with the newly introduced Stealth Rock.

[Jorgen]

You know, Fire Pokemon actually aren't that bad in RBY. The main reason they've been overlooked, imo, is Starmie's historical popularity. If Starmie isn't around to ruin the fun, Flareon and Moltres are actually very scary things to deal with, as Rocks don't like burns and everything else takes appreciable damage from Fire + Normal moves. It's also worth noting that Fires don't even have that much trouble switching in. Exeggutor is everywhere and gives Fires a free turn, even if it can hurt them a bit on the switch with Psychic.

Overall, Flareon is probably the best Fire-type. Bslam can para Starmie if it shows up, plus 318 Special Fire Blast is nothing to sneer at unless you're Chansey or the aforementioned Starmie. In the former case you're 3HKOed for sure by BS-BS-Hyper Beam, and in the latter BS-BS-Hyper Beam can 3HKO you a good chunk of the time. Yep, if Starmie has no Surf, life can actually get really hectic for it as it's dodging fps and trying desperately to avoid the potential 3HKO while doing very little to Flareon in return.

Moltres is pretty good too, DE-DE-Hyper Beam usually 3HKOs Chansey, its Fire Blast is quite a bit nastier than Flareon's, its defensive stats are better, and it's EQ-immune, making it better for taking on the physical Normals. Plus it gets Agility to pair with Fire Spin if you want to go for that, though you're better off attacking than trying to set up an AgiSpin sweep. Its BoltBeam weakness and lack of any kind of play against Starmie hurt it, though.

Charizard is typically hailed as the best Fire-type because of Swords Dance, but it's actually pretty terrible as it doesn't have the attacking stats to threaten anything off the bat and is in an awkward Speed tier where it's barely outsped by everything fast and would outspeed everything slower with a lot less Speed.

[Hipmonlee]

Even accepting that Starmie is gone, Flareon is not a good fire type. At least in OU.

The first thing you need as a fire type is the ability to outspeed Jynx. This gives you a point to being in the team. Punishing your opponent when they try to sleep you. Fire being the only thing that is good against both Jynx and Exeggutor..

Really, from there your options are Charizard, Ninetales and Rapidash. Moltres gets some points for agility + firespin along with pretty massive stats.

Zard is weak to ice which is a bitch, but has EQ for the grounds, which is awesome. He also rapes all the other fire types except moltres.. Ninetales has special, which is why it would probably be my choice for OU at the moment. Rapidash can agility firespin as well, also it's attack stat is pretty nice..

If we are talking about a game where you are confident you wont meet starmie, and you want the best switch into Eggy you can get, then I dont think any fire type would get the nod over Articuno. Aside from the fact that firetypes also beat Jynx.

Flareon just doesnt do anything useful.

[JimBob]

Camerupt is your example of a Pokemon that can be a nuisance in ADV? I'd pick Blaziken instead, high offenses coupled with a good offensive typing make Blaziken a tough threat, even if it's pretty frail. STAB Overheat is a great addition to a Reversal set, which makes Blaziken pretty good, and Typhlosion dangerous in UU. Charizard can do similar things with a BD set, but has to give up Sub.

[Umby]

Camerupt's Electric immunity gives it at least some lee-way when switching in and has access to Explosion. That's what was going through my mind. I also have some bias against Blaziken, so I kinda pushed it out of mind when I typed that.

[meteor64]

Originally Posted by Fat JimBob

Camerupt is your example of a Pokemon that can be a nuisance in ADV? I'd pick Blaziken instead, high offenses coupled with a good offensive typing make Blaziken a tough threat, even if it's pretty frail. STAB Overheat is a great addition to a Reversal set, which makes Blaziken pretty good, and Typhlosion dangerous in UU. Charizard can do similar things with a BD set, but has to give up Sub.

Camerupts typing is very relevant as it allows it to switch in on pretty much any Zapdos or Raikou, a trait only Steelix shares. Blaziken has trouble finding an opportunity to switch in at all ever, even Blissey potentially threatens to make it redundant with T-Wave. Being half Fighting is perhaps one of the biggest downfalls about Blaziken, since being weak to both Psychic and Flying is far from the best thing in ADV, when you add on the weaknesses to Water and Ground youll find its actually nigh on impossible to find a way to get him in- at least Camerupt can reliably come in on things that it should be threatening, such as aforementioned Zapdos +Raikou, but also Celebi, Magneton, Gengar, Skarmory, Blissey, Jirachi, Regice... not to mention Fire/Ground is also an incredible offensive typing, and Camerupt has the stats and moves to abuse it, AND has access to Explosion. Blaziken can't reliably switch in on much at all outside of HP Bug Forry (not counting boom), and doesnt really add any additional threat over Camerupt outside of Swords Dance and Reversal (Reversal is pretty bad when Tyranitar is #1 poke in the gen) and the difference in offensive stats isn't really noticeable. For these reasons I'd go so far as to say Camerupt is far more viable than Blaziken in the OU meta, and definitely one of the better examples of how Fire types should function in Adv.

[Crystal_]

Nah, if you'd like to use a Fire-Type in RBY, Moltres and Flareon and your best options. Other fire-types just don't hit hard enough. Chansey and Starmie wall Arcanine/Ninetales/Charizard basically all day bar terrible luck, maybe even Alakazam will wall them fine too. Plus Flareon has the better special to deal with Golem/Rhydon. Flareon really only loses Jynx in speed anyway, which will only be relevant if it can put Flareon to sleep (and wants to take the risk) or if Psychic will KO, otherwise Jynx will switch out.