OU CCAT - Mark III (Laddering/Discussing - See Post #547)

[emirinho]

I will once again nominate Thundurus-t



Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Volt-switch
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]

It may be odd that i am nominating the same pokemon again but i seriously think that this is maybe the best option for our team. Our team is pretty weak to rain teams which thundurus-t simply destroys. Thundurus-t works great together with T-tar. The volt-switch here can give us great momentum when scaring the opponents pokemon out and switching to the right pokemon that was sent against thundurus-t
Plus, thundurus-t has a decent speed, so with the scarf and great Special attack it can be considered as one of the top revenge killers and scouters.

One thing that thundurus has but the other (main) scarf pokemon dont,bar rotom, is the electric STAB which hits water super-effectively. We should bare in mind that no pokemon in our team can hit a water type with a super effective stab move. Another good thing about this pokemon is that it can surprise genesect with hp fire because all the other pokemon may have problems with it. Also the hp fire can be very useful when hitting scizor and other steel-typed pokemon.
The only pokemon that can really counter this set are lati@s and the blobs which are easily handled by the other teammates (keldeo,t-tar) which makes this pokemon fit perfectly into the team.

All in all, Thundurus-t would be a nice member in our team to fulfill the offensive role and pressure in the team along with the synergy. With the great scouting ability, power and speed it would help the team gain the momentum.
The only drawback is that it is weak to SR, but that should be neglected because it already wont be switching in and out too much as its main role is revenge killing, leading or sometimes scouting.

[TheStriker]

I'd like to nominate:



Yanmega @ Life Orb
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 160 Def / 252 SpA / 96 Spd
Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
-Bug Buzz
-Air Slash
-Shadow Ball
-Sleep Talk

Yanmega is a dangerous threat even in OU. After a KO on something slow like Conkeldurr, it can sweep late-game and be impossible to revenge kill after a couple speed boosts under its belt. Blaziken got banned because of the ability, still Yanmega is overpowered in UU, so its great in OU. Sleep Talk can cause unpredictability because after a spore for Amoonguss it can hit it with two of its strong STAB moves. Shadow Ball provides great coverage. It even has a resitance to mach punch which is useful and survive some other band priority users such as Terrakion's band quick attack. Special priority is in vacuum wave and it has a resist to it so it doesn't matter.

[ClubbingSealCub]

Ok so my main gripe about the team is that we are very very Gene Weak, especially RP LO Gene who can crush our team with Ice beam / Bug Buzz / Giga Drain. Scarf Gene is also a pain but that can be dealt with proper prediction imo.

We don't have a deditaced revengekiller so that's why I'm going to nominate...



Celebi @ Choice Scarf
Natural Cure
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
~Leaf Storm
~Earth Power
~Hidden Power Fire
~Trick / U-turn /

This Celebi patches up a few weaknessess. First, it's an additional fire / water resist so that Keldeo doesn't take too much abuse. It also acts as a great Gene bait because noone actually expects scarf Celebi. It's Leaf Storm lets us deal with bulky waters that could be troublesome for Keldeo. Trick lets us cripple something hard for the rest of the match which is pretty cool; U-turn lets us pull of a very quick turn (faster than Genesect by 1 point :D) and can grant potential switches for the rest of our team. HP Fire deals with Gene obv.

RP Gene will eat us alive no matter what we do; and I've already suggested Heatran like 2 times. Someone else can nominate him >_<

EDIT @ below: Celebi reaches 327 speed with HP Fire, Genesect tops out at 326.

[Masamune]

Originally Posted by Fat ClubbingSealCub

Ok so my main gripe about the team is that we are very very Gene Weak, especially RP LO Gene who can crush our team with Ice beam / Bug Buzz / Giga Drain. Scarf Gene is also a pain but that can be dealt with proper prediction imo.

We don't have a deditaced revengekiller so that's why I'm going to nominate...



Celebi @ Choice Scarf
Natural Cure
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
~Leaf Storm
~Earth Power
~Hidden Power Fire
~Trick / U-turn /

This Celebi patches up a few weaknessess. First, it's an additional fire / water resist so that Keldeo doesn't take too much abuse. It also acts as a great Gene bait because noone actually expects scarf Celebi. It's Leaf Storm lets us deal with bulky waters that could be troublesome for Keldeo. Trick lets us cripple something hard for the rest of the match which is pretty cool; U-turn lets us pull of a very quick turn (faster than Genesect by 1 point :D) and can grant potential switches for the rest of our team. HP Fire deals with Gene obv.

RP Gene will eat us alive no matter what we do; and I've already suggested Heatran like 2 times. Someone else can nominate him >_<

252SpAtk Celebi (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fire) vs 4HP/0SpDef Genesect (Neutral): 94% - 111% (268 - 316 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 66% chance to OHKO.

Not a guaranteed kill. Sending it out as a lead to counter opposing ScarfSect leads would be risky business, as 34% of the time you're getting OHKOed by U-Turn afterwards.

Only a minor nitpick, but it's worth considering...

EDIT: Wouldn't Celebi actually tie with Genesect, due to Celebi's speed being lowered by HP Fire?

EDIT @ Yanmega: LO recoil + sandstorm + 50% SR damage upon each switch in surely makes it unusable on a team like this?

[alexwolf]

I don't think that RP Genesect destroys us that badly. After giving to CBTar 228 Atk EVs and an Adamant nature, which are needed to OHKO Deo-D after ss, we still have 278 EVs to spend in bulk. If we go for 252 HP / 28 SpD, +1 Modest LO Giga Drain from Genesect does 53.46 - 63.11% to Ttar, and Ttar OHKOs back with Stone Edge doing 100% min. If Sect doesn't have Giga Drain then Ttar murders it even worse. So all we have to do is scout their Sect set a bit, and then if we believe that it is a RP variant keep our Ttar healthy.

Something else that should be noted is that except from Gliscor, every other poke in our team gives to Genesect an Atk boost, and Latias, Keldeo, and Tyranitar can all OHKO Sect, while two of them outspeed it, meaning that Gensect will find very few chances to set up in the first place.

[ClubbingSealCub]

Originally Posted by Fat alexwolf

After giving to CBTar 228 Atk EVs and an Adamant nature, which are needed to OHKO Deo-D after ss, we still have 278 EVs to spend in bulk. If we go for 252 HP / 28 SpD, +1 Modest LO Giga Drain from Genesect does 53.46 - 63.11% to Ttar, and Ttar OHKOs back with Stone Edge doing 100% min.

+1 252+ SpA Genesect Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 28 SpD Tyranitar: 408-480 (100.99 - 118.81%) -- guaranteed OHKO

[PenguinX]

I agree that we are weak to Rock Polish / Bug Buzz / Giga Drain / Flamethrower / Ice Beam Genesect.

edit: also how does scarf celebi make us less weak to rock polish genesect

Also just gonna say I'm supporting Scarf Terrakion here: its one of the few scarfers that actually matches-up decently vs rain (most of the common fighting resists like torn-t, thund-t, offensive starmie etc are 2hkod after rocks) plus more importantly its not complete set-up bait for Ferrothorn, who already gets plenty of opportunities to spike on us against Bronzong. On a team based around baton pass, limiting your opponents chances to set-up hazards is obviously pretty important and its the entire reason i really don't like scarf jirachi on this team.

[alexwolf]

^What PenguinX said. RP Gensect rarely uses Bug Buzz from my experience, as it really needs most of its coverage moves to deal with the most popular checks to him such as Terrakion, Rotom-W, and Keldeo.

So i think we are ok with being weak to a quite rare set, as we can't cover everything, and most important things seems to be covered.

[ganj4lF]

Not going to nominate something this round, many option I had thought about are already posted so I'll just express my support to Scarf Rotom-W, that can give us an additional Water and Flying resistance while being neutral to Electric. This should lessen quite a bit pressure on Latias to absorb Hydro Pumps, and can check Tornadus-T somewhat, if our Bronzong gets caught in some nasty attack. I really love both Scarf Jirachi and Scarf Terrakion, but I think Rotom is just better here. If I can spare some time I'm going to test a bit the team with the various possibilities before voting, to have a better understanding of the team's strengths and weaknesses.

[ClubbingSealCub]

Originally Posted by Fat alexwolf

^What PenguinX said. RP Gensect rarely uses Bug Buzz from my experience, as it really needs most of its coverage moves to deal with the most popular checks to him such as Terrakion, Rotom-W, and Keldeo.

So i think we are ok with being weak to a quite rare set, as we can't cover everything, and most important things seems to be covered.

Wanted to say this, but you beat me to the point. RP Genesect is pretty rare in my experience (maybe I just dont have a high enough rating tho) but scarf Celebi can beat it with 1 round of SR damage if it has a -def nature or outright KO with a -spdef nature at least

[Vemane]

I can't imagine any self respecting rp genesect going out WITHOUT bug buzz. Without that super powerful stab move, gene faces quite a bit more things hs can't KO (prods at ttar et al.).

Not to mention that I was under the impression that the standard was generally bb+bolt beam for rp gene, with gd over bolt sometimes recently

[Temp V1]

Originally Posted by Fat Vemane

I can't imagine any self respecting rp genesect going out WITHOUT bug buzz. Without that super powerful stab move, gene faces quite a bit more things hs can't KO (prods at ttar et al.).

Not to mention that I was under the impression that the standard was generally bb+bolt beam for rp gene, with gd over bolt sometimes recently

A lot of people do run the obligatory stab, however to really maximise the effectiveness an offensive move combination of Ice Beam/Flamethrower/Giga Drain really works well. Straight up the amount of things that can beat Genesect is a lot lower than if you throw Bug Buzz over one of those moves. Granted things like Gyarados you may lose super effective coverage on, however at +1 Satk with a LO I don't really see a Gyarados taking two Giga Drains/Ice Beams all that well. Thats the moveset I run at least, and unless its a Heatran, Chansey or Blissey coming in, my opponent tends to lose.
Thats not to say other combinations won't work, just from my experience thats the easiest to provide support around to facilitate a whole team sweep, chuck one strong physical Fighting type/Fighting move and your set.

[Remedy]

It's kinda annoying to limit our options for the last slot because of a current suspect that has many chances to be banned.
I'm not an augurer, but it would be really unfortunate, after going through so long a process, to have a team not adapted to the metagame or rather adapted to a metagame that is about to shift deeply.
Just saying, we shouldn't split hairs on something like that and not close any window for this matter.
We could make two versions of the team also.. but to be honest I want to try this team, and I'd rather make its life expectancy longer than a week given the time it took to be born.

[Superpowerdude]

Remedy after the team has been made the next stage is to playtest the team and make minor tweaks to it, if the metagame has changed we can tweak the team accordingly in the playtesting stage :)

[Harsha]

Ok some people were suggesting some weird things, so forgive me if I ignore something or change up your sets a little. It's probably on purpose though, so you don't need to tell me I made a mistake.

Quiver Dance Volcarona
Fight Gem Breloom
Choice Scarf Jirachi
Choice Scarf Terrakion
Choice Scarf Rotom-W
Curse Ferrothorn
Choice Scarf Landorus
Choice Scarf Thundurus-T
Offensive Yanmega
Choice Scarf Celebi

These are your choices for nominations, voting will stay open for a few days before the team is completed! You have three choices like always.

To address some things that people are saying, I'm not sure why people are saying Bug Buzz Rock Polish Genesect is never used. I always run my Rock Polish Genesect with Bug Buzz because it murders a lot of teams and provides STAB. We need to apply adequate pressure, otherwise our team can face a sweep at the hands of Genesect.

As far as metagame concerns go, considering we do not have Genesect on our team, our team shouldn't be affected too much. I think this holds especially true because if Genesect goes, this actually eliminates a threat to us. If it stays, no harm done, as we built this team with Genesect's presence in mind.

Anyways, get voting!

[King]

Quiver dance volcarona beats rp gene anyday unless its hp rock. That's my vote.

[PenguinX]

Scarf Terrakion

[emirinho]

Scarf Rotom-W
Scarf Thundurus-T

[Crackstar]

Fight Gem Breloom

[Lavos Spawn]

yanmega

[The Great Mighty Doom]

Choice Scarf Terrakion

[Allen Blaze]

Scarf Jirachi
Scarf Terrakion

[Superpowerdude]

Scarf rotom-w

[DarkBlazeR]

Choice Scarf Terrakion

[Remedy]

Curse Ferrothorn
Rotom-W (but it's lame)

I don't want to have a team crushed by a random spamming of Hpumps ._.