NU Viability Ranking

[GreyLacewing]

I would like to mention that Tentacool deserves at least D-Rank.

• It is at least as viable a spinner as Wartortle, and manages to support its team with toxic spikes, and knock off.
  
• With max investment and an eviolite, Tentacool's special defense is godly, lending it the ability to come in on, and frustrate, many special attackers (Gorebyss, Ludicolo, Amoongus, Vileplume, Charizard, Butterfree, Haunter- to name a few).
  
• To note: A +3 Max SpA Ludicolo with Life Orb cannot Ohko with Giga Drain, and instead deals catastrophic damage to itself from Liquid Ooze- with stealth rocks and two layers of spikes. (I include this only because it has won me a game before, and was really funny)

In fact, the only thing holding it back is its complete lack of useful recovery, as many psychic and electric special attackers have difficulty 2HKOing it without boosting, which is free set up turns.

[TropiOUs]

Originally Posted by Fat GreyLacewing

I would like to mention that Tentacool deserves at least D-Rank. [LIST][*]It is at least as viable a spinner as Wartortle, and manages to support its team with toxic spikes, and knock off.[List]

This is not syaing much, since Wartortle is not even viable, lol. And that is even major set up than Wartortle because it is as weak as Alomomola when using special attacks. Toxic Spikes is also terrible out of Ubers.

• With max investment and an eviolite, Tentacool's special defense is godly, lending it the ability to come in on, and frustrate, many special attackers (Gorebyss, Ludicolo, Amoongus, Vileplume, Charizard, Butterfree, Haunter- to name a few).

Gorebyss will just set up on it unless lol weak as fuck Giga Drain that is not even a 3hko/2hko(after 2 smashes if white herb) and gets killed first by it.

Ludicolo might be the only close to legitimate on your list, but guess what, because of Tentacool lack of recovery(not even leftovers!), Ludicolo only needs to hit in the switch once and let whatever it has as teammates take care of it.

Lol using Amoonguss mainly as a special attacker instead of a support mon. Vileplume has an easier time because of Aromatherapy. Both of these win against Tentacool always anyway, so it is doing nothing here.

Charizard will just 2hko if sun is up(and this is zard, he will carry it himself) while scald does pathetic damage. And Tentacool's scald is weak as fuck, making even the weaker roost non sun Zard beat it eventually without really trying.

Butterfree will just set up on it with sleep powder, and because of Tinted Lens, it only needs a +2 to 2hko Tentacool.

I assume Haunter's most common set is sub disable, that you guessed it, shits on Tentacool. Also, tentacool has no reliable recovery, and if Haunter gets a sub, it will be easy to wear down with Shadow Balls.

Oh yeah, and Tentacool has no recovery.

• To note: A +3 Max SpA Ludicolo with Life Orb cannot Ohko with Giga Drain, and instead deals catastrophic damage to itself from Liquid Ooze- with stealth rocks and two layers of spikes. (I include this only because it has won me a game before, and was really funny)

Tentacool is still 2hkoed here and can do nothing back. Recoil is also not that big for Ludicolo because of Tentacool's pathetic HP stat.

In fact, the only thing holding it back is its complete lack of useful recovery, as many psychic and electric special attackers have difficulty 2HKOing it without boosting, which is free set up turns.

The thing holding Tentacool back is that it is a piece of shit, and unlike Tentacruel in OU, it is not even durable enough to beat the shit it is supposed to

[Originality]

No persian?
This thing can be used as a Lead/Scout with a Fake Out/U-turn/Taunt/Return kind of set.

Technician and Nasty Plot makes a special set viable with moves such as Such as Water Pulse/Swift/Thunderbolt and Power Gem.

Persian also gets Switcheroo making a choice band set Viable with a Return/U-Turn/Bite/Switcheroo set.

Persian also has a few other notable moves such as Hypnosis/Knock Off/Rain Dance/Sunny Day and Foul Play.

Overall i think Persian is worthy of being in the D rankings at the lowest.

[Incon]

Originally Posted by Fat Vintage Books

I also think Bastiodon should be B he is excellent at getting rocks up and supporting the team by walling notable threats such as swellow, and being able to roar out pokemon who try to set up. He works excellent on a lot of different teams, and being the best choice for a SR user in a stall environment.

While Bastiodon is great at its job of setting up Stealth Rock and walling some notable threats, that's about all it does. Lack of Recover, little utility, and absolutely zero offensive are some of Bastiodon's biggest flaws, leaving him outclassed on most teams. He faces competition from mons like Probopass and Lairon as a Steel / Rock SR setter, both who are arguably better at that job with Probopass having better Utility and a slow Volt Switch and Lairon having virtually the same movepool but with some offensive pressence thanks to Head Smash and a decent attack stat. Bastiodon might be great on a stall oriented team, however the two aforementioned mons are better on most other teams, giving Bastiodon the C Rank.

Now I'd like to talk about two mons that I deserve some discussion / move tiers:

Electrode: One trait sets Electrode apart from every other electric type in the tier and makes it the best electric type scout and late game cleaner; that one simple trait being its blistering base 140 Speed. Its ability to outspeed most of the tier, even some scarf users, without a boost is truly amazing. Zebstrika and Raichu, while both have better abilities and similar base SpAtk and Bulk, they have significantly less speed. He's rather versatile in that he can run mulitple sets, ie: Life Orb, Specs, Rain Dance. Life Orb, being his best set, maximizes his cleaning capabilities with strong STAB electric moves, and coverage in HP ice, Signal Beam, or Foul Play. I think these positives may warrant a possible B rank, however he has a lot of competition from the other electrics who are mostly C.

Weezing: Weezing has always been a favorite of mine since i first started playing the game. His great physical bulk allows him to tank a sizeable amount of hits while either retaliating with a Will-O-Wisp or a Pain Split to heal off the damage, nor is he fazed by setup sweepers thanks to Haze and Clear Smog. However, Gothitelle receiving Shadow Tag spelled doom for the bulky poison cloud, trapping, setting up, or koing Weezing with ease, making him irrelevant in the meta. Since Gothitelle's ban, Fighting types have become increasingly popular including the dominating CB Sawk. Weezing's ability to wall the increasingly popular CB Sawk and other fighting types might warrant more use out of him.

Finally, I'd like to discuss a mon that is currently in E but i think should be moved up to D atleast.

Sneasel: Sneasel's fantastic base speed stat ties with top threat with the top threat, Cinccino which is enough to outrun most of the tier. His decent base 95 Atk is pretty high for NU and with a Choice Band he hits pretty hard. Dual STAB in ice and dark is great offensively and his dark typing gives him the useful immunity to Psychic. Pursuit lets him be an effective trapper on Psychic and Ghost types, outspeeding all of them minus Drifblim after Unburden is activated. Good priority in Ice Shard lets him revenge kill weakened targets, although i didnt use it much due to his ability to outspeed most of the tier. His typing does leave multiple weaknesses however, being the reason for Sneasel not being in a higher rank. Overall, i think Sneasel is an underrated, unresearched threat that deserves a mention in the viability tiers.

Summary:

...

---

-Bastiodon stays C
-Electrode possible B
-Weezing possible B
-Sneasel moves up to D atleast

[Raseri]

Originally Posted by Fat Sweet Jesus

Where's floaztel ?

I'd put him B, standard sets are good, but floatzel also has many unexplored sets and a nice niche in a fast hard hitting switcheroo and baton pass user. He's also pretty effective in rain and has a decent special attack that tends to be neglected. I'd suggest floatzel for a futur research week btw.

(Double posting like there's no tomorrow)

Floatzel shouldn't even be close to b-tier imo. D or maybe C is where it belongs. The Choice Band set is cool, but its walled by Amoonguss and Alomomola, and a lot of teams run them together. So in a lot of matches it is almost 100% useless.

The Baton Pass set is slightly more useful, but still isn't great, it isn't great at baton passing since it can't pass anything of note. Its a cool subpasser because of its speed, but thats about it.


I think moving Floatzel to C-tier is best. It isn't a bad Pokemon, and if Alomomoonguss is out of the way it is very hard to stop, its just hard to get rid of those two in the first place.


I think C-tier is the best for Electrode since it does struggle to differentiate itself from the other electrics. Between it, Zebstrika, Ampharos, and Electabuzz, Electrode struggles to stand out.

C-tier is good for Electrode since it acknowledges that it has a niche, but also informs people that it isn't easy to fit on a team as often Zebstrika or Electabuzz will be the better choice.

I'll try to write up a post tomorrow about some changes I'd like to see, particularly Combusken moving down and Ampharos moving up. Possibly moving Kadabra down as well.

[Ashley11]

I think that dragon air should be moved up to the C rank tier. It has great abilitys, shed skin and marvel scale, and access to boosting moves and rest recovery. Noting that u have shed skin, rest can easily be a full health recovery without to much of a problem. It had access to Dagon Dance, a great boosting move for it, and outrage, a wall breaking move. You also have waterfall or aqua tail as well. It has really good defensive stats with eviolite.

For overall in defense, it is above average. It is not any Amoongus or Alomomola in walling, but it does good enough for a special niche in this. It can get to iced because of rest and shed skin, and if u wanted to it could make use of marvel scale. Honestly though, one thing bad about it is that an all out stall set is not the best way to go, since its physical attack is pitiful without a boosting move.

As an offensive wall presence, I love it. It has fairly decent speed and attack after one DD, and great stats after 2-3 of them. I have sweeped many teams with dragonair. It has great base 120 stab outrage, which can dent things hard.

You might say that Shelgon is better in this bulky offense, but really, it isn't. It has better bulk with eviolite, but no access to reliable recovery.


Overall, I think that dragonair is good enough for rank C, definitely unworthy of D since it is much better than that. I know it isn't B worthy, so C is the perfect place for it.

This is the set I use:

Dragonair@eviolite
Ability Shed Skin
Nature Careful
Evs 252 hp 252 spD 4 Def
Dragon Dance
Rest
Outrage
Waterfall

[citro]

first post lol ._.

Anyway I think Electabuzz should be moved from C tier -> B tier. It's an excellent pokemon, and really deserves more usage. It's versatile, can run a variety of sets ranging from Choice items to Eviolite wielding with Substitute and even mixed variants to break down usual counters. I'm not saying this is anywhere near the upredictability of Braviary or Samurott, but it at least keeps the opponent on his toes. With Eviolite, it has above average bulk enabling it to tank two, often three or four hits from walls that it can come in on.

Then there's its Speed. Base 105 is just amazing in NU, outpacing a whole load of powerful threats including Haunter, Zangoose, Charizard, Sawsbuck, and the Simis. This also means it can easily sweep lategame, even taking a hit or two from Scarfers because of its Eviolite-bolstered defenses. He has a lovely movepool including Thunderbolt, Hidden Power, Focus Blast, Psychic, Volt Switch, Signal Beam, and Cross Chop. Not to mention he gets one of the best abilities in the tier, Vital Spirit; Amoonguss is so common that having a safe switch into its Spore is almost essential, and Electabuzz fills that role perfectly. And he looks cooler than Magmar :)

[DTC]

Tiers were updated. Just because I didn't make some changes doesn't mean they aren't still up for discussion.

Changes:

• Murkrow from E tier --> C tier
• Lairon from E tier --> C tier
• Sneasel from E tier --> C tier
• Mawile from E tier --> C tier
• Floatzel from E tier --> C tier
• Mr. Mime from E tier --> C tier
• Trapinch from E tier --> D tier
• Natu from E tier --> D tier
• Pikachu from E tier --> D tier
• Electabuzz from C tier --> B tier
• Metang from C tier --> D tier
• Zweilous from B tier --> C tier

Great job so far, guys.

[GreyLacewing]

Originally Posted by Fat TropiOUs

The thing holding Tentacool back is that it is a piece of shit, and unlike Tentacruel in OU, it is not even durable enough to beat the shit it is supposed to

In respone to TropiOUs:

My apologies, I neglected to mention that the goal of Tentacool is never, under any circumstances, to beat something. It is a pokemon whose durability lends itself to the stall play style. For it, set up is defined as: "spin, t-spikes, t-spikes." As a stall player, this, and the extra turns of residual damage, are really all that tentacool needs to find its niche on my team.
From stall's perspective, knock off makes alomomola, amoongus, and just about any other wall less of a threat, and allows Gurdurr to be crippled. Scald doubles to burn amoongus, garbodor and vileplume, the only passive damage status that will affect them.
Yes, toxic spikes are very hard to play in the NU metagame. I have, in the not so distant past, managed crawl into the top 10 with my toxic spikes stall team (then college hit, but whatever). I can assure you, if you play it well, it will pay off.
In my months of using Tentacool, dating all the way back to the time of Magmortar, I have found it to be the superior spinner in NU for stall teams, with perhaps the exception of Cryoganol, but he was stolen by RU. And, as I did say, the main thing I have noticed that prevents Tentacool from being more useful than it already is, is that complete lack of recovery (not even leftovers!). Tentacool is a utility pokemon, not an offensive one. It can, by simply lasting, turn an extremely bad situation into a moderately bad one, provided you like passive damage.

As a final note, I agree that Wartortle has exactly the same overall usefulness value as Tentacool. My first post was primarily attempting to rectify the fact that they were tiered separately (Wartortle is in C). If, overall, the impression is that they are both extremely useless, I must bow to the majority's opinion. Thus, I revise my proposal: Move Tentacool and Wartortle to D tier, or Wartortle to E. They are very similar pokemon attempting to fill the same niche, but their few differences cause them to appeal to different play styles. This does not result in a difference in viability.

Edit: Sorry- I got the tierings mixed up. I meant that Wartortle should be moved to the E tier, with Tentacool, as they accomplish about the same thing by focusing on different defenses, or else Tentacool should be moved to the D tier. As to why a letter later in the alphabet should be used for the first rank....

[Originality]

Please don't say I have just read 'move Wartortle to S tier'. The only set Wartortle can pull of is a defensive spin set and even that is outclassed by the likes of Torkoal who can also cripple physical attackers with W-o-W. Wartortle has found a nice place in the C tier, and doesn't deserve to me moved up, or down.

[WhiteDMist]

@GreyLacewing: If you are arguing for Tentacool's viability in setting up Toxic Spikes, how is it not outclassed by Garbodor? Garbodor has better overall bulk, better offenses, and a less situational ability in Aftermath (or even Weak Armor and Stench). As a Rapid Spinner, it is still outclassed by Armaldo and Torkoal for their ability to actually break through the common Ghost types of the tier with their offensive sets. Add in the offensive nature of the current metagame and one can safely say that Tentacool has no place in anything but the E tier (though I suppose that it technically can qualify for D rank if you ignore the fact that it is less than mediocre). I do agree that Wartortle should be moved to D tier though, since it is both mediocre and only able to fill a single niche. I hope you made a typo when you said Wartortle should be S tier though. :/

[The Reptile]

Originally Posted by Fat GreyLacewing

Wartortle to S.

...

Like others have said, Torkoal and Armaldo are much better spinners, and Garbodor is a better hazards layer (both lolT-Spikes and Spikes). He might be the only Rapid Spinner with T-Spikes in the tier, but T-Spikes are pretty bad, considering that it only hits a few pokemon and those pokemon can switch in on the first layer, not to mention the existence of Skuntank (#14 in usage) and Amoongus (#2 in usage) make them even more useless. But the absolute worst part is that Tentacool is complete set-up fodder for pretty much every big threat, even more so that Wartortle. An example would be SubBU Braviary. He can switch in on anything (he will try to avoid scald because of the burn, but he takes pretty much no damage) and proceed to Sub up. Musharna can just CM on your face, and will even burn YOU if your Scald burns, and then it can heal bell the burn off. Also, the ghost that block your spin also set up on you. At least Wartortle has Haze (tentacool has access to haze too, but no one uses haze on tentacool because it needs TSpikes and Rapid Spin to even be a thought, while Scald is needed to at least burn something. I guess it can go over Knock Off, but I've never seen someone use Haze over Knock Off. Also, iirc, Haze doesn't work on pokemon behind a sub. Might be wrong though) and can hurt things with Toxic or actually force switches (surprisingly) with Yawn, and doesn't have an atrocious Defense like Tentacool. Also, all of the ghost-types beat it. Haunter sets up a sub and disables Scald. Boom, now you have a haunter behind a sub. Misdreavous is on a similar boat if it's offensive with Sub, except there is no way in hell you can break the sub with Scald, and a defensive set won't care about burn because Heal Bell. Golurk, the only one you hit SE (and you still can just barely 3HKO if Golurk has no bulk investment), can just EQ you to oblivion . While uncommon, you can't even touch Frillish because of Water Abosrb. (Knock Off is annoying, but you definitely lose one-on-one)
Tentacool would get a place in the F-Tier if that was a real tier, but it's not, so I have to settle with E-Tier.

[GreyLacewing]

Yes, sorry, typo. I fixed it.

Yes, I do argue for Tentacool's ability to set T-Spikes. It would be outclassed by Garbodor, if not for the whole "capable of rapid spinning as well." Tentacool rolls the two functions into one, and picks up a handy water resist in the process. Which neatly complements its role as a special shield (probably a better term than wall in this case). Garbodor exists more on the physical side, as do Torkoal, Armaldo and Wartortle. It is the tier's only remotely viable special spinner.

It has many drawbacks- most notably recovery, but also a weakness to electric and psychic, two of the common special attack types, and eviolite's normal problems. Thus it is only viable on some teams- but still viable. D tier, like its physical counterpart, Wartortle should be.

[Audiosurfer]

With Amoonguss in 2nd in the September usage stats, Skuntank in 15th and Garbodor in 29th (all with more than 5% usage, so seeing at least one in a match isn't too uncommon), Toxic Spikes aren't that great as they'll likely just be absorbed. Also, I think one thing to keep in mind is that having the move Rapid Spin doesn't always equal capable of rapid spinning, as it loses to just about every ghost in the tier. Wartortle to D is alot more reasonable, since as The Reptile said, it actually has a few useful qualities, however, Tentacool is just bad in general, and fails to perform any useful things very well.

[TropiOUs]

Yes, I do argue for Tentacool's ability to set T-Spikes. It would be outclassed by Garbodor, if not for the whole "capable of rapid spinning as well." Tentacool rolls the two functions into one, and picks up a handy water resist in the process. Which neatly complements its role as a special shield (probably a better term than wall in this case). Garbodor exists more on the physical side, as do Torkoal, Armaldo and Wartortle. It is the tier's only remotely viable special spinner.

And losing to every special attacker except Ludicolo is good?lol. And it can't even spin when all ghosts except for I think mighty Litwick, spinblock it without even trying, status it, or just get a free sub(lol even Haunter gets this). Also there are far superior and more durable water resists such as Dragonair(and this is not even that great) that supports the team better and opening slot for a far superior rapid spinner that can actually beat shit like Torkol or Armaldo.

It has many drawbacks- most notably recovery, but also a weakness to electric and psychic, two of the common special attack types, and eviolite's normal problems. Thus it is only viable on some teams- but still viable. D tier, like its physical counterpart, Wartortle should be.

It is not even viable. It is like wartortle but worse, at least wartortle can break subs from even the mighty Carnvaha unlike Tentacool, that is literally, set up bait for everything in the tier. There is only one reason to run Tentacool, and that reason is: wanting to lose against any competent player(read not the 90% of the ladder that loses to special braviary).

[Originality]

I also agree that Tentacool should remain in the E-Tier, He is generally outclassed as a spinner and as a Toxic Spiker. 40 base HP means Tentacool doesn't have the bulk even with an eviolite to check many common threats in NU, it also has very little offensive power with one of the weakest giga drains in the whole of NU, (weaker than Oddish's) and even Hydro Pump will at best 4HKO bastiodon.

With Amoonguss in 2nd in the September usage stats, Skuntank in 15th and Garbodor in 29th (all with more than 5% usage, so seeing at least one in a match isn't too uncommon), Toxic Spikes aren't that great as they'll likely just be absorbed

Again it is showed that even Tentacool's most viable set, Toxic spikes is pointless as the amount of poison types around in NU at the moment is ridiculously high.

So overall there is nothing Tentacool can do in the current metagame which is either effective or is outclassed by other Pokemon. Tentacool stays in E

[EBeast]

The above was pretty much just talking about Tentacool and Wartortle so I'll get right on it.

Personally I think that Tentacool should stay in E tier because it simply cannot Rapid Spin effectively against any team with a Ghost-type Pokemon, not even Haunter. The argument was basically giving everything Tentacool should be able to do, while the counter was pointing out how mediocre it is at it. While I agree Tentacool is capable of doing a lot such as countering Gorebyss, Knocking Off items, Rapid Spinning, setting up Toxic Spikes, and burning things with Scald it simply does not do these things very well.

It needs Giga Drain to counter Gorebyss, any Ghost-type Pokemon in the tier can spinblock it, and it needs all of its slots so it can't really mix and match all too much. The whole reason you're using Tentacool is for Rapid Spin so you have 3 slots to choose between Giga Drain, Scald, Knock Off, TSpikes, Haze, and even Toxic (I have seen Karpman (Honus) use this in his Archived team) Without access to everything there will be areas where Tentacool is helpless and as for the moves that it is using it doesn't really take great advantage of them. Giga Drain is literally only for Gorebyss and useless otherwise coming off Tentacool's awful base 40 SpA (It only works against Gorebyss because of Shell Smash decreasing its SpD and disencouraging it from setting up more. Bulkier Pokemon like Samurott don't care) While by typing Tentacool would beat SD Samurott, its awful Defense actually means that even +2 Jolly Lum Samurott is 2HKOing Tenta with Waterfall. Without Poison STAB in Sludge Bomb Tentacool can't really do all that much against Ludicolo either except try to burn it with Scald or Knock Off its Life Orb. Tentacool can't even really make use of Haze very well as physical sweepers all hit it extremely hard while most special Pokemon that boost their offenses are Psychic-type Pokemon. Scald is probably the only move that Tentacool can't go wrong with as it can actually be used to burn and ACTUALLY BREAK HAUNTER'S SUBSTITUTE, however is not really used as much since as said needs its other moves to cave its niche.

I'm not really sure about Wartortle I personally think that it should be at least D and possible E along with Tentacool. Wartortle can be used offensively with a 252 HP / 252 SpA Modest set to OHKO Haunter on the switch with Hydro Pump and 3HKO standard Misdreavus. However the same problem arises that arises with Tentacool applies to any Wartortle. If it's not spinning getting rid of Ghost-types while keeping itself healthy it will most likely not even get the Rapid Spin off. Wartortle's Hydro Pump 3HKOed Misdreavus? Great assuming there is Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes up (Since these HAVE to be up if you're bothering to attempt a Rapid Spin) Misdreavus has left Wartortle at around 60% health from 2 uninvested Shadow Balls, which is not taking in potential Hydro Pump misses and is assuming that Missy got hit by Wartortle's Hydro on the switch. From there the opponent has the ability to send out whatever they desire to finish off a heavily crippled Wartortle. Either this means sack your Spinner and not get a Rapid Spin off or force another member to take damage from hazards and the incoming attack and hope Wartortle can spin later. This applies to both Tentacool and Wartorle, but more so Tentacool as it cannot be used offensively like Wartortle and even though it has a lot of special bulk its HP is lower and suffers more from hazards.


EDIT: A big kick in the mantle for Tentacool; it can't use Haze and Rapid Spin together. This means that if you want to deal with set up sweepers (not like Tenta was good against them anyways) you're out of luck

Summary of changes

---

Tentacool => Stationary (E rank)
Wartortle => E rank (From C rank) [Open for discussion if it should be D instead]

[DTC]

Oh, I forgot to mention that CrashinBoomBang is now on the viability ranking council.

I am not sure about moving Wartortle to E tier. D tier I am considering. Wartortle is the only Rapid Spin user I would half-consider using that is not weak to Stealth Rock. It also synergizes better with Stealth Rock weak Pokemon such as Charizard better than Armaldo or Torkoal. It may be really weak, but at least it can prevent things from setting up on it between Scald / Seismic Toss / Haze. Also, Ghost-types will not appreciate being burned by Scald, besides Misdreavus who can Heal Bell the burn off.

[EBeast]

Originally Posted by Fat DTC

Oh, I forgot to mention that CrashinBoomBang is now on the viability ranking council.

I am not sure about moving Wartortle to E tier. D tier I am considering. Wartortle is the only Rapid Spin user I would half-consider using that is not weak to Stealth Rock. It also synergizes better with Stealth Rock weak Pokemon such as Charizard better than Armaldo or Torkoal. It may be really weak, but at least it can prevent things from setting up on it between Scald / Seismic Toss / Haze. Also, Ghost-types will not appreciate being burned by Scald, besides Misdreavus who can Heal Bell the burn off.

I'm cool with Wartortle being D. It's better than Tentacool at spinning, so it feels kind of weird putting them both in the same tier. The biggest things setting Wartortle apart from Tentacool are access to Haze + Spin, Seismic Toss, good physical bulk, and better Special Attack.

• 252 SpAtk Life Orb Articuno Hurricane vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Tentacool: 48.59% - 57.39% (2-3 hits to KO)
• 252 SpAtk Life Orb Articuno Hurricane vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Wartortle: 51.55% - 60.87% (2 hits to KO)

• 252 SpAtk Life Orb Articuno Hurricane vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Tentacool (+SpDef) : 35.21% - 41.55% (3 hits to KO)
• 252 SpAtk Life Orb Articuno Hurricane vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Wartortle (+SpDef) : 35.71% - 42.24% (3 hits to KO)

From those calcs it actually shows Wartortle having almost the same amount of special bulk as Tentacool, while obviously having much more physical defense. Adding to the already mentioned traits, Wartortle is leagues ahead of Tentacool at spinning. Only thing Tenta has going for it is absorbing and setting up TSpikes, which on Stall teams can already be relegated to Garbodor. (Who can also add Spikes to the mix)

[EonADS]

I would like to bring up Girafaraig, for C. Honestly speaking, Girafaraig is a good Pokemon and performs very well against the Alomomoongus core. It gets a free switch-in on most of Amoonguss' moves thanks to Sap Sipper, and it can set up Calm Mind or blast it with Psychic. What's that? You've come up against something you can't handle? No problem! That's what Baton Pass is for, so just use it and bring in something that can handle the Pokemon blocking Girafaraig. The other perk about it is that you can pass Sap Sipper boosts too. It's not hopless as a Choice item user either, and an all-out attacker set can work, though I wouldn't recommend either over Calm Mind. It's very weak against Dark-types, particularly Skuntank, and really isn't all that powerful, though CM and a Life Orb helps with that.

[Incon]

Originally Posted by Fat EonADS

I would like to bring up Girafaraig, for C. Honestly speaking, Girafaraig is a good Pokemon and performs very well against the Alomomoongus core. It gets a free switch-in on most of Amoonguss' moves thanks to Sap Sipper, and it can set up Calm Mind or blast it with Psychic. What's that? You've come up against something you can't handle? No problem! That's what Baton Pass is for, so just use it and bring in something that can handle the Pokemon blocking Girafaraig. The other perk about it is that you can pass Sap Sipper boosts too. It's not hopless as a Choice item user either, and an all-out attacker set can work, though I wouldn't recommend either over Calm Mind. It's very weak against Dark-types, particularly Skuntank, and really isn't all that powerful, though CM and a Life Orb helps with that.

Girafarig is definitely a cool mon to use and with the prevalence of Amoonguss, Sap Sipper is a great ability. Sadly, its base stats are too low to use his ability to its full affect. Physical attacking Girafarig is basically outclassed by every single normal type in the tier, especially by other normal sap sippers like Miltank and Sawsbuck. Calm Mind Giraf is inferior to most psychic types in the tier due to a combination of lower bulk and Spatk. Choiced sets are outclassed as well by most of the aforementioned mons as well. It's easily taken down by Skuntank and Absol and it is susceptible to revenge killing due to its mediocre speed and low bulk. Despite these points, Girafarig has a small niche in Sap Sipper + Baton Pass, as well as his unique typing inNormal / Psychic. He can switch in on any grass or ghost attack and proceed to set up Calm Minds. When a counter switches in, Girafarig can simply baton pass out, bypassing Pursuit or Sucker Punch, and switch into something that can benefit from the boosts.

D rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the NU metagame, but are decent enough to justify their use on some teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that.

This is what i believe Girafarig falls under. While it does have a small niche, it cant do much else warranting a position in the D tier, rather than the C tier as you suggested.

[Raseri]

Originally Posted by Fat EonADS

I would like to bring up Girafaraig, for C. Honestly speaking, Girafaraig is a good Pokemon and performs very well against the Alomomoongus core. It gets a free switch-in on most of Amoonguss' moves thanks to Sap Sipper, and it can set up Calm Mind or blast it with Psychic. What's that? You've come up against something you can't handle? No problem! That's what Baton Pass is for, so just use it and bring in something that can handle the Pokemon blocking Girafaraig. The other perk about it is that you can pass Sap Sipper boosts too. It's not hopless as a Choice item user either, and an all-out attacker set can work, though I wouldn't recommend either over Calm Mind. It's very weak against Dark-types, particularly Skuntank, and really isn't all that powerful, though CM and a Life Orb helps with that.

• I agree that Girafarig deserves to be C tier. It's one of the best responses to Alomomoonguss in the tier, because neither of them threaten it at all. It is surprisingly fast, has niche but handy typing, and a movepool that is actually amazingly wide.
  
• Girafarig's base 85 speed is very good for it, since it can baton pass out of offensive threats that can OHKO it, as many NU threats sit around 70, meaning Girafarig outspeeds easily. 90 special attack means that its no slouch offensively, and can sweep with a calm mind boost or two late game, though it should be focusing on passing.
  
• Sap Sipper is what really lets it stand out, grass immunity is great right now, it can take on Amoonguss so easily, as all it can do is sludge bomb.
  
• Essentially, Girafarig allows you to shut down the most common defensive core in the metagame, as well as pass a boost whenever either of them comes in. Sounds pretty good to me

[EonADS]

^ Agreed on all of the above points. It might only have a single viable role, but it's completely unique in that role, and still manages to hold its own.

I'd like to vote that Grumpig get moved up to C as well. Now that B2W2 is out, Whirlwind is no longer incompatible with Heal Bell. That, in combination with Thick Fat, Grumpig's bulk, and its Psychic typing, makes Grumpig perhaps the best Gurdurr counter in NU (nobody uses Payback anymore), and it's also a good Sawk check. It's also an acceptably good Sub/Calm Mind user; I've tried it. It lacks power compared to Gardevoir, but gains some bulk and sets up more easily thanks to Thick Fat's resistances. Base 90 SpA is good enough for a bulkier Calm Mind user, and it sets up on Alomomoonguss easily.

On the downside, Skuntank and Cinccino cause it problems (Skuntank actually cockblocks SubCM sets utterly), and the Support set can't do much aside from make fun of Gurdurr and get rid of Alomomoonguss' status. It's a little shaky, but it's usable and even good if properly applied. I can't say the same of most Pokemon in D-teir, save perhaps Beartic.

[Raseri]

k DTC asked people to post about bambi, so here I am :)

Sawsbuck should remain in B tier
It's a great Pokemon without a doubt, but there are to many things holding it back and stopping it from being successful. It is just a bit to weak in order to be an amazing sweeper in my opinion.

It struggles against Amoonguss, one of the most common Pokemon in the tier(I believe Adamant +2 Return doesn't kill). On top of that, many common Pokemon in the tier can win against it 1v1. So stuff like Gurdurr, Armaldo, even Drifblim are capable of defeating bambi.

To make matters worse, Sawsbuck is slower than a lot of offensive threats, and lacks priority to combat them. So Cinccino, essentially any scarfer, Rapidash, Swellow all come out on top. If Sawsbuck had any form of priority I think it would be A tier for sure, but as it stands it is just missing out on what I think an A tier mon should be, its sweep is to easily stopped.

On the plus side, Sawsbuck has two really cool offensive types, and can rip through bulky teams without Gurdurr if given a chance to set up, and its LO set is deadly, just not A tier worthy.

[FLCL]

Sawsbuck should be A tier in my opinon. Although Raseri mentions Amoonguss being able to survive Sawsbuck's attacks, it is in fact one of the only physical walls in the tier that can stop Sawsbuck. Regirock, Alomomola, and Musharna all fail to beat Sawsbuck due to it constantly recovering hp with a boosted Horn Leech. The offensive threats that are listed all pale in comparison to Pokemon such as Ludicolo, Zangoose, Samurott, Braviary, Absol, Skuntank, or Emboar, all of which are naturally slower than Sawsbuck. Sawsbuck can proceed to OHKO or severely hurt each one of them with Return, Horn Leech, or Nature Power. Sucker Punch—the most common form of priority—fails against every common Sawsbuck set, which carries either Nature Power, Substitute, or Baton Pass. Speaking of Baton Pass, it can also perform as a team player, passing deadly boosts to sweepers such as Samurott or Emboar, both of which have excellent synergy with Sawsbuck.