The Chomps

Ignismare · Oct 15th, 2012, 3:48:41 PM

Hello. Like everybody and their mother, I kinda got excited about Garchomp, so I created this simple little team. I'm kinda new to competitive Pokemon (it's my first post on Smogon :) ), so I would love to get as much criticism as possible, but please, be gentle :P. The team isn't HEAVILY tested. I played like 10 or so games and got a 5/5. So...yeah, that's all there is to say beside the actual team introduction.

Team Building

Cho'Gath (Garchomp) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Stone Edge

When I designed this guy, I was pretty sure there will be lots of other 'chomps on the server. So how to better annihilate them if not by outspeeding them with a tasty Outrage to the face? I'm pretty sure there's not many max speed-jolly-scarf Garchomps running around, and even if so, getting at least a speed tie will be critical in dispatching them, as any competent OU dragon (including other 'chomps) can instant-kill him.

HoaB (Heatran) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Substitute
- Earth Power
- Toxic

I decided to go for something less obvious. Everybody expects the defensive variant, so a surprise max-Sp.Attk. Magma Storm can really put a dent in many pokes, especially if comboed with an unswitchable Toxic draining health like crazy. Earth Power comes in for coverage, Sub for protection, Baloon to avoid early EQs. He also protects Garchomp from all the Ice- and Dragon-type moves he might not appreciate.

ROAAAR (Tyranitar) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 42 SAtk / 216 SDef
Naughty Nature
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock

A steady counter to Reuniclus, Gliscor, Ferrothorn, Skarmory (the last two if Heatran is dead) and a lot more. I don't know if there are any other ways to remove as many common problems, but old ROAAAR seems to work just fine for now.

(insert egg joke here) (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Wish
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss

The standard Chansey build. Stalls Sp. attackers, heals with Wish, poisons, you know the drill.

Pringles (Jellicent) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Recover
- Scald
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

I decided to make a little bit more of an experimental EV spread, mainly because it's ability, typing and access to Will-O-Wisp give it a huge advantage over all Physical sweepers while it's stats let him live all non-super effective special attacks. Plus, he blends in really well with Heatran.

Cutcutcut...CUT (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 40 Def / 252 HP / 216 Spd
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Taunt

A really good physical wall, fixing the glaring problem with Fighting attacks. Can outstall most things in existence, scout with Protect and annoy the hell out of anything with a pretty fast Taunt.

So...yeah, that's all of them. In advance, I thank you for all the help I can get to make this thing better. Also, if you find any errors, sorry for my bad English :).

ganj4lF · Oct 15th, 2012, 6:12:49 PM

Hi. Your team, although nice, seems to have a quite glaring weakness to Fighting attacks. Jellicent is immune to them, of course, but once it's down your team is basically dismantled. Threats like Lucario and Conkeldurr, that can easily set up in Chansey's face, can then proceed to do major damage while tanking your hits (Conkeldurr) or just plain OHKOing everything (Lucario) after Garchomp takes some residual damage (25%ish). A reasonable solution could be to swap Skarmory for a Gliscor. With both Gliscor and Jellicent, you have an answer to every Lucario and Conkeldurr set out there. Gliscor is also immune to Sandstorm, and can stall out quite a bit of threats, or just Taunt them to uselessness if they are walls. It also comes with a resistance to Fighting, immunities to Ground and Electric, and a built-in regeneration tool in Poison Heal. Also, it's quite fast, allowing it to prevent certain pokemons from set-upping, thing that Skarmory / Jellicent can't do.

Gliscor

This set checks Lucario perfectly since it outspeeds 252 Spe Adamant, which is the most common variant, and isn't OHKOd by +2 Espeed, while KOing back with EQ. Conkeldurr is also easily handled by stalling him or preventing set-up if it's not statused and you opted for Taunt. As a bonus, you outspeed and OHKO all non-balloon, non-scarfed Heatrans.

Also, another thing, your Tyranitar set just doesn't make sense. You run two special attacks and max Attack, and that means 2 out of 3 of your attacks are incredibly weak, while the third has only decent coverage. Naughty nature is also terrible, since it cripples Tyranitar's special walling abilities. I suggest switching to a more classic MixTar, that still allows to 2HKO Reuniclus (your set fails to OHKO, too; MixTar can also run Chople if you want a failsafe way to kill Reuniclus) while sporting stronger Special attacks and an overall better Special Defense. You could think a bit more if you want to use Ice Beam, since many threats that hate Ice Beam can pummel Tyranitar before it can move (Garchomp, Lando, Dragons, they all carry a Ground SE move (if not Superpower)), while Superpower allows you to get a solid hit on blobs / Steel switch-ins, and Terrakion.

MixTar

Hope it helped! Good luck for your team.

Ignismare · Oct 16th, 2012, 10:08:13 AM

Quote:

Your team, although nice, seems to have a quite glaring weakness to Fighting attacks. Jellicent is immune to them, of course, but once it's down your team is basically dismantled. Threats like Lucario and Conkeldurr, that can easily set up in Chansey's face, can then proceed to do major damage while tanking your hits (Conkeldurr) or just plain OHKOing everything (Lucario) after Garchomp takes some residual damage (25%ish). A reasonable solution could be to swap Skarmory for a Gliscor. With both Gliscor and Jellicent, you have an answer to every Lucario and Conkeldurr set out there. Gliscor is also immune to Sandstorm, and can stall out quite a bit of threats, or just Taunt them to uselessness if they are walls. It also comes with a resistance to Fighting, immunities to Ground and Electric, and a built-in regeneration tool in Poison Heal. Also, it's quite fast, allowing it to prevent certain pokemons from set-upping, thing that Skarmory / Jellicent can't do.

I'll definitely give Gliscor a try.

Quote:

Also, another thing, your Tyranitar set just doesn't make sense. You run two special attacks and max Attack, and that means 2 out of 3 of your attacks are incredibly weak, while the third has only decent coverage. Naughty nature is also terrible, since it cripples Tyranitar's special walling abilities. I suggest switching to a more classic MixTar, that still allows to 2HKO Reuniclus (your set fails to OHKO, too; MixTar can also run Chople if you want a failsafe way to kill Reuniclus) while sporting stronger Special attacks and an overall better Special Defense. You could think a bit more if you want to use Ice Beam, since many threats that hate Ice Beam can pummel Tyranitar before it can move (Garchomp, Lando, Dragons, they all carry a Ground SE move (if not Superpower)), while Superpower allows you to get a solid hit on blobs / Steel switch-ins, and Terrakion.

Aaand the automatic EV setter on showdown bites me in the tail. I guess it set EVs for a different set (dancing one maybe?). I was pretty sure it'll give me the standard mixtar set, so I clicked it without thinking. I'll definitely fix that. That's a honest mistake. But it does explain why did he get so damaged by attacks he should've soaked quite nicely.
But I'm not that fond of switching Ice Beam for Superpower. The first version of the team had it, but after a little struggle with an enemy Gliscor (which I couldn't harm in any way) I decided to add Ice Beam in. If you'd be able to suggest any other ways to counter this Poke, I would gladly put Superpower in (it's a really nice way of killing Chanseys and other TTars).
Ok, so thank you for all the advice. I'll try them out as soon as possible :).

Yeezy D · Oct 16th, 2012, 10:24:08 AM

I've seen this team in action, I believe. If you play Showdown, then I think I've seen you play! I have to say, its quite a good team, despite its aforementioned weaknesses. My apologies that I don't have that much to say about the team, I just wanted to say I saw a very close and entertaining match from this team.

Ignismare · Oct 16th, 2012, 10:47:21 AM

I do play Showdown, so it is quite possible that we played a match. The team seems to be fine, but I kinda lack the skills to run it as well as it deserves. But still, I'll train a bit and gain enough abilities to use its true potential :).

Yeezy D · Oct 16th, 2012, 10:57:50 AM

Well I only barely beat you, so dare I ask if you could PM me the import code for the team? I'd love to try it out, and if I get any experience from it I'll know how to improve it.

evillocke · Oct 16th, 2012, 10:58:34 AM

I really like this guy. Gliscor would help this team a lot. The problem is fighting attacks. Gliscor helps with those. I can't really reccomend anything that has not been reccomended. I'm new to smogon, sorry.

Ignismare · Oct 17th, 2012, 6:37:44 AM

I updated the thread a bit: Skarmory was replaced with Gliscor and I fixed the EVs on TTar. If you have any other advice, I would gladly listen to them :).

DrShellgon · Oct 17th, 2012, 7:24:12 AM

I have been playing with mixtar for a while now, and pursuit>icebeam, really helps in dealing with the lati twins, and various other ghost and psychic types. True you lose the ability to hit dragonite and gliscor on the switch in, but the rest of your team can handle them reasonably well.

Ignismare · Oct 17th, 2012, 10:29:58 AM

Quote:

True you lose the ability to hit dragonite and gliscor on the switch in, but the rest of your team can handle them reasonably well.

As in how (I mean Gliscor, Dragonite is not much of a problem)? The only thing that came even close to killing a Gliscor is Jellicent, but he can't hold his own against the Protect/Sub set. It can troll Jelli to infinity and beyond. Garchomp could potentially kill it with Stone Edge, but before I can do any decent switches, he'll already have a Sub up. It's not me ranting or anything, I'm just asking for any other solutions for the problem. It would be awesome to have something beside TTar, since he gets easily KOed by EQ.

Oct 15th, 2012, 3:48:41 PM	#1
Ignismare Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 8	The Chomps Hello. Like everybody and their mother, I kinda got excited about Garchomp, so I created this simple little team. I'm kinda new to competitive Pokemon (it's my first post on Smogon :) ), so I would love to get as much criticism as possible, but please, be gentle :P. The team isn't HEAVILY tested. I played like 10 or so games and got a 5/5. So...yeah, that's all there is to say beside the actual team introduction. Team Building Obvious base for the team. I decided to play a "play a safe defensive game until Garchomp is safe to come in and sweep" kind of game, nothing too innovative. To make that happen, the next logical choice was... Heatran. He makes sure all the Ice Shards and Ice Beams connect onto something that doesn't care THAT much. Still, Heatran has a ton of Pokes he doesn't appreciate facing. Here comes a brilliant partner for the fire...turtle...toad...thing. This stashed gentleman excels at handling all water and fighting type moves, while Heatran handles his problems with dark and grass types. A perfect pair for a strong defensive core. And what's a good defensive core that can't get even better :)? The OU queen of handling special attacks fits in pretty nicely. I realized most of my team doesn't take any Sandstorm damage (or heals it up with lefties), so why not add this guy? He serves as a weather counter against all those pesky Politoeds, while bringing in a few moves destroying the team's bigger problems. I couldn't really decide what to put into my last slot. I kinda analyzed the layout a bit and decided to put in some EQ protection. I browsed through the list of OU Pokemon and decided to take a nice little bird home to make Tyranitar's and Heatran's job of dodging Earthquakes a tad bit easier. And then...BANG, Skarmory: Immune to both EQ AND Sandstorm, very durable, works as a great phaser and a physical wall (which I lacked for some reason). Then I listened to all the advices given to me by everyone on this thread and swapped Skarmory for Gliscor, mostly to fix the glaring Fighting type problem. He does all the things old metal birdie did (well, maybe except phazing, but I get access to Taunt, and that's tons of fun too), but heals twice as much and is immune to all forms status, not just poison. So yeah, that's how the team came to be. I didn't use any guides or anything, just used the information gathered from watching OU matches on showdown and reading a lot of Smogon. Cho'Gath (Garchomp) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Rough Skin EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def Jolly Nature - Outrage - Earthquake - Fire Fang - Stone Edge When I designed this guy, I was pretty sure there will be lots of other 'chomps on the server. So how to better annihilate them if not by outspeeding them with a tasty Outrage to the face? I'm pretty sure there's not many max speed-jolly-scarf Garchomps running around, and even if so, getting at least a speed tie will be critical in dispatching them, as any competent OU dragon (including other 'chomps) can instant-kill him. HoaB (Heatran) @ Air Balloon Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature - Magma Storm - Substitute - Earth Power - Toxic I decided to go for something less obvious. Everybody expects the defensive variant, so a surprise max-Sp.Attk. Magma Storm can really put a dent in many pokes, especially if comboed with an unswitchable Toxic draining health like crazy. Earth Power comes in for coverage, Sub for protection, Baloon to avoid early EQs. He also protects Garchomp from all the Ice- and Dragon-type moves he might not appreciate. ROAAAR (Tyranitar) @ Leftovers Trait: Sand Stream EVs: 252 HP / 42 SAtk / 216 SDef Naughty Nature - Crunch - Fire Blast - Ice Beam - Stealth Rock A steady counter to Reuniclus, Gliscor, Ferrothorn, Skarmory (the last two if Heatran is dead) and a lot more. I don't know if there are any other ways to remove as many common problems, but old ROAAAR seems to work just fine for now. (insert egg joke here) (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Impish Nature - Protect - Wish - Toxic - Seismic Toss The standard Chansey build. Stalls Sp. attackers, heals with Wish, poisons, you know the drill. Pringles (Jellicent) @ Leftovers Trait: Water Absorb EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Def Bold Nature - Recover - Scald - Will-O-Wisp - Taunt I decided to make a little bit more of an experimental EV spread, mainly because it's ability, typing and access to Will-O-Wisp give it a huge advantage over all Physical sweepers while it's stats let him live all non-super effective special attacks. Plus, he blends in really well with Heatran. Cutcutcut...CUT (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb Trait: Poison Heal EVs: 40 Def / 252 HP / 216 Spd Impish Nature - Substitute - Protect - Earthquake - Taunt A really good physical wall, fixing the glaring problem with Fighting attacks. Can outstall most things in existence, scout with Protect and annoy the hell out of anything with a pretty fast Taunt. So...yeah, that's all of them. In advance, I thank you for all the help I can get to make this thing better. Also, if you find any errors, sorry for my bad English :). Last edited by Ignismare; Oct 17th, 2012 at 6:36:42 AM.

Oct 15th, 2012, 6:12:49 PM	#2
ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science! Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 686 Italy	Hi. Your team, although nice, seems to have a quite glaring weakness to Fighting attacks. Jellicent is immune to them, of course, but once it's down your team is basically dismantled. Threats like Lucario and Conkeldurr, that can easily set up in Chansey's face, can then proceed to do major damage while tanking your hits (Conkeldurr) or just plain OHKOing everything (Lucario) after Garchomp takes some residual damage (25%ish). A reasonable solution could be to swap Skarmory for a Gliscor. With both Gliscor and Jellicent, you have an answer to every Lucario and Conkeldurr set out there. Gliscor is also immune to Sandstorm, and can stall out quite a bit of threats, or just Taunt them to uselessness if they are walls. It also comes with a resistance to Fighting, immunities to Ground and Electric, and a built-in regeneration tool in Poison Heal. Also, it's quite fast, allowing it to prevent certain pokemons from set-upping, thing that Skarmory / Jellicent can't do. Gliscor Gliscor @ Toxic Orb \| Poison Heal Impish \| 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe - Substitute - Protect - Earthquake - Toxic / Taunt This set checks Lucario perfectly since it outspeeds 252 Spe Adamant, which is the most common variant, and isn't OHKOd by +2 Espeed, while KOing back with EQ. Conkeldurr is also easily handled by stalling him or preventing set-up if it's not statused and you opted for Taunt. As a bonus, you outspeed and OHKO all non-balloon, non-scarfed Heatrans. Also, another thing, your Tyranitar set just doesn't make sense. You run two special attacks and max Attack, and that means 2 out of 3 of your attacks are incredibly weak, while the third has only decent coverage. Naughty nature is also terrible, since it cripples Tyranitar's special walling abilities. I suggest switching to a more classic MixTar, that still allows to 2HKO Reuniclus (your set fails to OHKO, too; MixTar can also run Chople if you want a failsafe way to kill Reuniclus) while sporting stronger Special attacks and an overall better Special Defense. You could think a bit more if you want to use Ice Beam, since many threats that hate Ice Beam can pummel Tyranitar before it can move (Garchomp, Lando, Dragons, they all carry a Ground SE move (if not Superpower)), while Superpower allows you to get a solid hit on blobs / Steel switch-ins, and Terrakion. MixTar Tyranitar @ Leftovers / Chople Berry \| Sand Stream Sassy \| 252 HP / 64 SpA / 216 SpD - Stealth Rock - Fire Blast - Crunch - Superpower / Ice Beam Hope it helped! Good luck for your team. __________________ Counter that Pokemon project: Mk III (over) & Warstory \| Mk IV (running) RMTs: The HOutsiders (also the other ones if anyone likes lurking my old posts) Take a look at this before starting an argument Not accepting rating requests anymore. Sorry!

Oct 17th, 2012, 6:37:44 AM	#8
Ignismare Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 8	I updated the thread a bit: Skarmory was replaced with Gliscor and I fixed the EVs on TTar. If you have any other advice, I would gladly listen to them :). Last edited by Ignismare; Oct 17th, 2012 at 7:02:04 AM.

Oct 17th, 2012, 7:24:12 AM	#9
DrShellgon Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 11 Down Under	I have been playing with mixtar for a while now, and pursuit>icebeam, really helps in dealing with the lati twins, and various other ghost and psychic types. True you lose the ability to hit dragonite and gliscor on the switch in, but the rest of your team can handle them reasonably well. __________________ Half the people on this forum are extremely rude in-game. If you believe in politeness both in-battle and outside it, put this in your signature.

Oct 16th, 2012, 10:24:08 AM	#4
Yeezy D Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 73 Indigo Plateau	I've seen this team in action, I believe. If you play Showdown, then I think I've seen you play! I have to say, its quite a good team, despite its aforementioned weaknesses. My apologies that I don't have that much to say about the team, I just wanted to say I saw a very close and entertaining match from this team.

Oct 16th, 2012, 10:47:21 AM	#5
Ignismare Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 8	I do play Showdown, so it is quite possible that we played a match. The team seems to be fine, but I kinda lack the skills to run it as well as it deserves. But still, I'll train a bit and gain enough abilities to use its true potential :).

Oct 16th, 2012, 10:57:50 AM	#6
Yeezy D Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 73 Indigo Plateau	Well I only barely beat you, so dare I ask if you could PM me the import code for the team? I'd love to try it out, and if I get any experience from it I'll know how to improve it.

Oct 16th, 2012, 10:58:34 AM	#7
evillocke Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 71	I really like this guy. Gliscor would help this team a lot. The problem is fighting attacks. Gliscor helps with those. I can't really reccomend anything that has not been reccomended. I'm new to smogon, sorry.