The OU Viability Ranking thread

[Chou Toshio]

I don't get why people are taking issue with seeing Hydreigon in B-Rank. After all, B-Rank is a very good rank. Look at the list of B-Rank Pokemon-- these are all very viable, and very potent threats in the metagame. I mean... Foretress, Jellicent, Tentacruel, Skarmory, Gengar, Dugtrio, Volcarona... B-Rank includes a lot of key Pokemon OU teams couldn't go without, that absolutely shape the metagame.

There are few teams that have no B-Rank (or lower) Pokemon; sticking to only A/S rank puts too many limitations on team building. The B-Rank pokes are staple OU threats; just not the kings of the tier.

And that's exactly what Hydreigon is; it's a Staple-- a legitimate threat that sees use and has it own unique redeeming qualities. However, it's clear that it's not nearly as lethal or threatening Garchomp, Latios, Latias, Dragonite, etc. There is a clear distinction of threat level.

As for Kyurem-B; there's just nothing else like it in the tier-- nothing else with that absolutely ridiculous level of raw stat-advantage. Nothing else can pry the metagame open just by brainlessly clicking Outrage. Even PK_Gaming has resigned to put it in a tier above, despite his massive Haxorus fetish.

[malomyotismon]

Ye the conversation went away from hitmontop for the forgettable pokemon that is arcanine.

Anyone willing to back my earlier statements why hitmontop should be tier C?

[Rayquaza_]

Originally Posted by Fat RabidChipmunk

Wait, what? Fighting is probably the best type to be locked into: it hits five types for super effective damage and nine others for neutral. Close Combat is probably the single easiest to spam move in the entire game.

Until you realize that a priority attack takes advantage of the defense drops from Close Combat, flying and psychic types are very common in OU and ghost types are immune to fighting.
So, no, you don't want to be locked into a fighting-type move very often.

As for Kyu-B, it's solid A-rank. It doesn't have that horrible ice weakness every other OU dragon has, its stats allow it to be far more versatile than its small movepool could imply at first glance (just take a look at Kyu-B's OU analysis), has no hard counters, is one of the best anti-rain pokemon in the tier and single-handedly crushes stall teams with either brainless Outrage spamming or the SubHoneClaws set.

Hydreigon has the advantage of a larger movepool that makes it more unpredictable, but once it's set is revealed it's rather easy to wall. Also, unlike Kyu-B (who can afford running Lefties even on offensive sets), it's very reliant on items to net critical OHKO's and 2HKO's.

Kyu-B on the other hand manages to keep offensive pressure no matter what it runs thanks to its absurdly high stats. You can't send in your bulky water type (including Politoed to win weather wars, which in itself is huge) because you risk getting vaporized by Fusion Bolt and you can't send your Gliscor or Landorus-T even when it runs a CB set because you risk getting OHKO'd by Ice Beam.

[Vemane]

Originally Posted by Fat Rayquaza_

Until you realize that a priority attack takes advantage of the defense drops from Close Combat, flying and psychic types are very common in OU and ghost types are immune to fighting.
So, no, you don't want to be locked into a fighting-type move very often.

As for Kyu-B, it's solid A-rank. It doesn't have that horrible ice weakness every other OU dragon has, its stats allow it to be far more versatile than its small movepool could imply at first glance (just take a look at Kyu-B's OU analysis), has no hard counters, is one of the best anti-rain pokemon in the tier and single-handedly crushes stall teams with either brainless Outrage spamming or the SubHoneClaws set.

Hydreigon has the advantage of a larger movepool that makes it more unpredictable, but once it's set is revealed it's rather easy to wall. Also, unlike Kyu-B (who can afford running Lefties even on offensive sets), it's very reliant on items to net critical OHKO's and 2HKO's.

Kyu-B on the other hand manages to keep offensive pressure no matter what it runs thanks to its absurdly high stats. You can't send in your bulky water type (including Politoed to win weather wars, which in itself is huge) because you risk getting vaporized by Fusion Bolt and you can't send your Gliscor or Landorus-T even when it runs a CB set because you risk getting OHKO'd by Ice Beam.

Vaporized by fusion bolt? Hell, they'd be hard pressed to not get 1hkod by cb adamant outrage. Gliscor and lando also take huge chunks (less defensive sets of each are 1hkoed i believe). As you mentioned, kyu is great for weather wars for this reason: there is nothing for the opponent to switch in! Thus, their team will quickly whittle away

[Tabuu]

See here's the thing about Kyurem-B and Hydreigon.
Hydreigon has wonderful attacking stats and a movepool to demolish pretty much anything that doesn't yell "Chansey" or "Celebi in the rain".
However on closer inspection, we see that Hydreigon has a 105/125 Offense stat.
This isn't terrible at all and is quite useful for a mix-Pokemon such as Hydreigon.
But realize this:
When you compare it to Hydreigon, Kyurem-B is just on a whole new level.
With 170/120 Offense stats, Kyurem-B is a clear A-Tier Pokemon.
Honestly, once Kyurem-B gets a Substitute up or something, it becomes S-Tier without a shadow of doubt.
People are really overlooking base 170. 1-7-0 people. That's probably higher than you've ever bothered to count in your life.
Kyurem-B also has the tools to bypass any stupid Steel Type thinking it can wall an Outrage. Eat an Earthpower, Earthquake, Outrage or Fusion Bolt. Your Choice Steel Types.

I also went onto a Defensive Calculator and noticed that sadly Hydreigon seems to get OHKO'd from so many various threats. Like very common too at that.
To score an OHKO on Kyurem-B, many of them are somewhat rare.
Things like Specs Latios, Banded Terrakion, Banded Haxorus...pretty much Pokemon that have massive Attack stats and were given a Band/Spec.
So Kyurem-B does have more survivability on his side.

Anyways, that's why I think this whole Hydreigon v. Kyurem-B is a little dumb to be frank ._.
In reality, people are making Hydreigon look worse as it tries to compete with a Pokemon that has an Attack stat way to powerful.

[Eggbert]

Ghosts, Latios, Latias, Tentacruel, Reuniclus, Starmie, hell since almost every fighting type move will be physical Hippowdon as well, Dragonite, Lando-T, etc. beg to differ. Close Combat is situational and at time good to spam when you're cleaning late-game, but otherwise most teams are prepared for fighting-types and it's generally best to exercise caution in spamming choiced CC as it can ruin momentum.

Terrakion can 2HKO everything on that list with stealth rock, except reuniclus which is rare, lando, and gengar/jellicent. gengar is definitely not switching in reliably and jellicent can be 2HKOd by stone edge as well so it will be a tad bit reluctant. sure, things stop it, but it is alot easier to spam that you give it credit for. I know terrakion isn't the only CC user but when I think CC I think terrakion.

As far as hydreigon, it's definitely B tier. Tailwind is actually pretty good with it, but it is a sitting duck without the speed boost.

[False Sense]

Well, people have presented some pretty strong arguments for why Kyurem-B is A-Rank. I can understand that those ridiculous stats can counteract it's other flaws. I guess I'm done with the Hydreigon for A-Rank argument for now. Although I don't agree with some of the things people are saying about Hydreigon, I can understand why people aren't exactly fond of it. Well, thanks to everyone who offered their support for Hydreigon. Maybe next time...

[Gary2346]

Originally Posted by Fat Tabuu

See here's the thing about Kyurem-B and Hydreigon.
Hydreigon has wonderful attacking stats and a movepool to demolish pretty much anything that doesn't yell "Chansey" or "Celebi in the rain".
However on closer inspection, we see that Hydreigon has a 105/125 Offense stat.
This isn't terrible at all and is quite useful for a mix-Pokemon such as Hydreigon.
But realize this:
When you compare it to Hydreigon, Kyurem-B is just on a whole new level.
With 170/120 Offense stats, Kyurem-B is a clear A-Tier Pokemon.
Honestly, once Kyurem-B gets a Substitute up or something, it becomes S-Tier without a shadow of doubt.
People are really overlooking base 170. 1-7-0 people. That's probably higher than you've ever bothered to count in your life.
Kyurem-B also has the tools to bypass any stupid Steel Type thinking it can wall an Outrage. Eat an Earthpower, Earthquake, Outrage or Fusion Bolt. Your Choice Steel Types.

I also went onto a Defensive Calculator and noticed that sadly Hydreigon seems to get OHKO'd from so many various threats. Like very common too at that.
To score an OHKO on Kyurem-B, many of them are somewhat rare.
Things like Specs Latios, Banded Terrakion, Banded Haxorus...pretty much Pokemon that have massive Attack stats and were given a Band/Spec.
So Kyurem-B does have more survivability on his side.

Anyways, that's why I think this whole Hydreigon v. Kyurem-B is a little dumb to be frank ._.
In reality, people are making Hydreigon look worse as it tries to compete with a Pokemon that has an Attack stat way to powerful.

If only Kyurem-B actually learned Earthquake, that would be awesome! Heck an all out offensive move set of Outrage, Dragon Claw, Fusion Bolt, and Earthquake would pretty much hit the entire tier extremely hard, harder then it already does. That's one advantage Haxorus has over it, a better move pool and set up moves. Poor Haxorus, so overlooked. He is out classed in the Choice Band Department, but sweeper? Not so much. Sure Dragonite and Salamence are usually the better sweeping candidates, however it doesn't have to worry about Stealth Rocks, x4 weakness to Ice Shard, and can bypass Levitate on Rotom-W and Bronzong, without having to rely on a Special attack. He would be easy A-Rank if he wasn't out classed in most of his roles by Kyurem-B. Besides, his Sub Swords Dance set is probably one of the scariest things in the game to face.

[Tabuu]

If you ever let Haxorus get a Substitute up and a Swords Dance, you can pretty much kiss your ass goodbye. If that Haxorus has a Salac Berry, you're fucked. Honestly, this is the only niche that Haxorus has over Kyurem-B. But it's one worth having.
After that enjoyable debate on Hydreigon, I think it's time that Volcarona took another shot for A-Rank.

Make me King.

Alright, so at this point of the BW2 OU Metagame, everyone has come across this badass Moth. And I'm pretty sure we all know just how destructive a Quiver Dance comin' from this thing can be, whether it be a BulkyRona, ChestoResto, or Offensive Volcarona, a Quiver Dance can at least secure a KO on many OU Threats.
She is gifted with a good defensive typing, having a solid 5:3 Resistance and Weakness ratio.
Having a STAB Fire Type move and a reliably powerful STAB Bug Type move, Volcarona is an offensive behemoth capable of ripping through Pokemon that would usually be perceived as Defensive Counters. With 2 or 3 boosts, Heatran is looking at a possible 3HKO from Bug Buzz, a move he resists x1/4.
Scary.
Volcarona while it may not seem diverse at first, has some deceptive variations to its seemingly monotonous sets. It's true that any Volcarona you run itno will be carrying Quiver Dance (unless you're fighting a Specs Volcarona... ._.). However, the way that Volcarona utilizes that one move is pretty amazing. At +1, you thought that Terrakion/Keldeo could come in to revenge (pretend it's not Scarfed). However that one Volcarona was carrying Giga Drain. Well there goes that. Heatran walks in confidently absorbing that Fire Blast. Too bad next turn, he goes out just as fast to a +1 HP Ground.
You poison that Volcarona and think you've won, until it goes RestoChesto and ruins your life.

Now, here are my predictions as to what the anti-Volcarona arguments will become:

~Stealth Rocks. Need I say more?
~Drizzle Dominance. Statistically it isn't anymore but I mean...it's still fucking everywhere you look...
~Susceptibility to common Scarfed Pokemon

So sorry, but I'm actually gettin' sleepy at this point as I type. So I'm not going to elaborate on these follow up answers ATM. However, please read through and criticize anything you want. Tomorrow, I plan to elaborate a lot more. Also excuse me if I say something stupid...I'm half awake...

~Stealth Rocks. This is going to be freaking huge. Poor Volcarona loses half of his health on entry. This is extremely detrimental. But the A-Rank definition doesn't require that the Suspect be 100% self-sufficient. In fact it raises the point that it may have a flaw that prevents it from doing its job consistently, which I find funny as A-Rank is an exclusive ranking and for a Pokemon to have a flaw that hinders consistency...IDK, just sounds strange to me ._.
But back to the point.
Volcarona honestly just needs Rapid Spin support to not be dead weight. Technically, Volcarona has ways to work around this SR Weakness on its own through its sets, but bottom line is no one wants a half-weakened Pokemon on entry.
This argument, alone, should not hold Volcarona back. Observe Dragonite. He too, suffers from SR Weakness and arguably his loss might actually be worse.
See, Dragonite's rise to the top rode solely on his new-found ability Multiscale [then came along his stats and movespread but you get what I'm sayin']. For Dnite to lose that one ability on entry to SR is pretty huge. It's actually worse as Volcarona is naturally Powerful and has a good base 100 Speed. Also Volcarona doesn't suffer from a priority weakness. Dragonite without Multiscale is going down to an Ice Shard. However Dragonite is allowed to receive support in Rapid Spin and thus allowed in A-Tier. He also is able to use Roost like Volcarona to solve that problem on his own if he really must.

~Drizzle is very dominant and quite literally puts a damper on his efficiency. However realize that Volcarona is still very powerful. With Max Investment in SpA and a LO, a +1 Fire Blast under the Rain is still strong enough to OHKO and 2HKO many Steel Types. Volcarona can also OHKO various threats after a +1 LO STAB Fire Blast in the Rain. His raw power is enough to still muscle through if he gets the chance to set up.
Also observe the A-Rank Celebi and Heatran. Drought and Drizzle (basically weaether) nerf them HUGELY. They both have their obvious and respective issues against those two prominant weathers. Yet, they are still able to work past those issues somehow (in the analysis, I'm sure it'll explain) and work to a certain degree of success.
Now I'm not saying Volcarona is amazing, Rain or No Rain. Volcarona still naturally hates Rain (unless its DrizzleRona, a Drizzle variant). It stills hinders the moth. However, VOlcarona after a boost of two, can work around the detriment to a degree of success.

~Susceptibility to certain revenge, scarfers. I probably find this argument the funniest. So many slower A-Rank Pokemon are vunerable to various Scarfers and revenge killers. Yet they do not face a drop. Look at Salamence, Volcarona, Lati Twins, Dragonite, Breloom and such. They all can be revenged/trapped(Lati) by scarfers and revenge killers. In fact many of them suffer worse cases as they have a Priority weakness. Volcarona only suffers from Aqua Jet, a super uncommon priority move. Volcarona may be outsped by choiced Terrakion and Keldeo but so is Dnite and Salamence.

Anyways, this was my opening argument: Volcarona for A-Rank as it can sweep a good amount of the OU Metagame. Volcarona has flaws that prevent consistency but it has methods and can get support to easily work around it. Due to this fact, Volcarona can usually do her job most of the time.

[Lord of Bays]

Volcarona is also unique in that he's not held back THAT much by Drizzle. First, he gets Hurricane. Second, he does very well in getting rid of threats to rain, like Ferrothorn, as Fire Blast with significant investment can OHKO even before a Quiver Dance.

[False Sense]

Volcarona for A-Rank, huh?

Let me just put something out there; I DESPISE VOLCARONA. I absolutely hate it. It tends to be the bane of my existence because even when I prepare for it, I have trouble. And if you DON'T prepare for it... you're dead. Seriously, if you don't have a solid plan for removing Volcarona, this thing can kill you. Even it's Stealth Rock weakness doesn't stop it from sweeping, especially bulky variants. I'm not going to go into too much detail now, but I can fully understand why Volcarona could be A-Rank. It tears up so many teams, it's unreal...

[Gary2346]

Volcarona is one scary Pokemon. It's one of those Pokemon that creates the domino effect if you let it set up, because it's pretty much all downhill from there, similar to Moxie Salamence. Every time I build a team, Volcarona is always something I try to take into account. If my team lacks any kind of Choice Scarfer packing Stone Edge or some kind of resilient phazer like Heatran, then I'm going to have a rough time when I see this thing on the team preview. His great move coverage, insane power, and above average special bulk makes him really hard to take out, especially with Sun Support.

With that said however, Volcarona is a very hard Pokemon to use successfully when playing against a well built team and or good player. His Stealth Rock weakness of course, being his biggest, is pretty much the sole reason why he isn't used on every Sun team and, heck, every other team! Bug and Fire is an amazing offensive and defensive typing, giving Volcarona only a few weaknesses and a ton of coverage. Since OU is full of dangerous Psychic types such as Alakazam, the Lati twins, and Reuniclus, Volcarona is a great check to these bastards, and can actually use them as set up fodder. Another thing that OU lacks is a good Fire type. Infernape is really blah without Sun support, and Heatran is the only really good stand alone Fire type that needs little to no support to function on a team, weather or not. Now Volcarona would be a great addition to that list since the tier lacks both Fire and Bug types, however the amount of support needed to get him to sweep is quite a pain. First off as Tabuu mentioned, is a spinner. Now as you all know, Spinners are hard to come by in OU. Forretress is decent, but he lacks instant recovery, and lacks any sort of useful moves to fight back to prevent itself from being set up fodder. Donphan is shit, even in sun. Tentacruel is by far one of the best spinners in the tier, however it needs Rain to better it's longevity, which ironically, Volcarona likes. With that in mind though, his Fire attacks are heavily nerfed, meaning that Drizzle Moth might have to replace his Fire move for Hurricane instead, limiting his coverage. Starmie is the best way to go since they both cover each others weaknesses quite well. Still, you pretty much HAVE to give up a slot for a spinner, which is kind of a let down. Forcing Volcarona to run a healing move in order to negate Stealth Rocks sucks for the moth because it loses a coveraging move, and on top of that requires a free turn of healing, plus another turn of set up.

Now although Volcarona can function on Rain teams, it's Fire STAB is lost, meaning it's pretty much just a Bug type with access to Hurricane. Fair enough, but what if you don't want to use him on a Run team? That forces you to cope with the hardships that Volcarona will face when going up against Rain teams, unless of course you have Drought, Sand, or Hail support to negate Rain. Since Rain is so common, more likely then not, you're going to have a hard time setting up on Rain teams, since even a Volcarona at +1 Special Defense barely survives a Choice Specs Hydro Pump from Politoad at full health. Modest Politoad however, OHKOs. Volcarona needs that extra STAB to sweep efficiently, because with all the bulky walls like Jirachi and other Steel types, Volcarona can't depend on Bug Buzz to deal with them, especially under the Rain. This leads me to my next point.

Volcarona absolutely NEEDS a free turn to be effective, and is by far one of the most predictable Pokemon in OU. I can't tell you how many times players have tried forcing a switch with Volcarona in order to get a free turn of set up. It's so predictable, because they don't want to risk going for a coverage move and miss predict the Landorus or Salamence switch in. Even at +1 however, he is still susceptible to common Scarfers such as Terrakion, Salamence, Landorus and Garchomp, all who either pack Stone Edge or a powerful physical move. This forces Volcarona to either wait for these Scarfers to be taken out by it's teammates, or pray for two free turns of set up. Since smart players will keep their scarfer alive as long as possible in order to prevent this from happening, Volc will have a hard time coming in.

All in all, Volcarona is the definition of Risk and Reward, similar to Auromoth in CAP. If given the chance to set up and with the right support, it's easily one of the most dangerous Pokemon in OU. With that said, Volcarona relies way too much on it's teammates to succeed, and is hindered by one of the most common playstyles. Volcarona forces your team to not only pack a spinner but also possibly an answer to Drizzle, easily revenged killed by common scarfers, requires at least one to two turns of set up before it can sweep, and has a case of fourth move slot syndrome since it can't hit certain parts of the meta game without a certain Hidden Power or Giga Drain. These reasons alone, keep Volcarona from going A-Tier. OU is harsh to the moth, and even with all these factors Volcarona is still a huge threat.

In my opinion, it's a perfect B-Tier Pokemon.

[Hemp Man]

Fire Blast in Rain isn't too bad actually. 252 SpA+ Fire Blast in Rain OHKO's Ferrothorn, Foretress, Scizor, Magenzone, Lucario, and Physically Defensive Skarmory after SR. Although Jirachi is a pain, and Heatran is immune to Fire regardless of Weather.

[Gary2346]

Originally Posted by Fat Hemp Man

Fire Blast in Rain isn't too bad actually. 252 SpA+ Fire Blast in Rain OHKO's Ferrothorn, Foretress, Scizor, Magenzone, Lucario, and Physically Defensive Skarmory after SR. Although Jirachi is a pain, and Heatran is immune to Fire regardless of Weather.

The main problem is how vulnerable Volcarona is in the Rain. Even with a +1 SpD boost, Volcarona is actually quite bulk, and can even take Hydro Pumps from non boosted Rotom-W and Scalds from a plethora of Pokemon. Put those Pokemon in Rain however, and Volcarona at +2 is still extremely vulnerable to boosted Water moves. Also, it seems like a lot of people prefer to run Fiery Dance on Volcarona for the 50% chance of raising their special attack to even higher levels. Although Fire Blast is still really powerful under Rain, Fiery Dance is already the equivalent to Lava Plume in power, making it quite pitiful under the Rain. I myself prefer Fiery Dance for the extra 50% chance of raising SpA without set up and 100% accuracy, however since Rain is so prominent I'm almost FORCED to run Fire Blast.

So yeah, it's not so much firepower, it's how vulnerable it is. Damn all this talk about Volcarona makes me want to build a team around it!

[Tabuu]

"The main problem is how vulnerable Volcarona is in the Rain". -Gary2346

I'm goin' to have to disagree with that as an argument for not raising Volcarona up. See, Volcarona does suffer heavily under rain, in terms of that Volcarona becomes very susceptible to being KO'd easily. For example underneath the effects of Drizzle, Scarfed Politoed has a 75% chance to OHKO a +1 Volcarona. Specs will OHKO regardless, but that's only if Specs Politoed survives the +1 Giga Drain, after Stealth Rocks, which is looking kind of abysmal, as the Toed only has a 18.75% chance to survive. Keep in mind that Volcarona usually likes to appear mid-game, where the opposing team's members should have taken up some damage.

Now let's observe another threat under Drizzle: Keldeo
Volcarona cannot deal with Scarfed Keldeo until it has accumulated +2 Boosts. This is not a far-fetched idea as Volcarona has many chances to set up on Drizzle threats such as Defensive Politoed, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and CM Latias. Otherwise Keldeo remains a threat when Scarfed.
However, if Keldeo is not scarfed then Volcarona can easily OHKO any variant with a +1 LO Timid Giga Drain.

Latias and Latios are also able to turn into set up fodders. Latias variants of any kind will lose to a Volcarona as CM Latias will lose to Bug Buzzes and the QD's of Volcarona. Offensive Latias can't secure an OHKO with Draco while a +0 Bug Buzz is an OHKO. Latios is set-up after a -2 SpA drop from Draco.

While Volcarona isn't optimal under Rain, Volcarona can definitely work around all of these Drizzle threats.

So, I don't agree with your argument that Volcarona's vunerability in Rain holds it back.
In fact, look at the others in A-Rank. Rotom-W is susceptible to Drought Teams, while Heatran suffers yet another Drizzle issue. Venusaur only works under Sun and so as long as the Weather war is won, Venusaur too, will be susceptible under any weather.

But, you did bring up one point that I will agree with and it is Volcarona's predictability. Sure there are many different QD variants but they still all QD in the end and so they usually are quite predictable. But notice that Pokemon such as Vensaur are just as predictable but yet they manage A-Rank. Latias isn't as predictable but still shares a similar story as usually checks and counters will stop a majority of her sets.

So yea :] That's my rebuttal

[GatoDelFuego]

Most of what you're saying about rain teams and volcarona is true, but you don't see that many volcarona with giga drain, because then it loses out on one of its stabs or hidden power. Comparing volcarona's weather weakness to some other a rank's weaknesses works, but there's a problem.

Rotom doesn't lose half its health to stealth rock on the switch

Heatran doesn't lose half its health to stealth rock on the switch.

Volcarona has the problem of dealing with stealth rock, a weather weakness, and extreme predictability. Dragonite and salamence, both SR weak, are both pretty varied and in some cases don't even mind stealth rock at all. Kyurem b has an SR weakness as well but just wants go get in and nuke things. No other Pokemon in a rank has the combination of volcarona's flaws; flaws tht make it b rank.

[Gary2346]

Of course Drizzle isn't Volcarona's biggest issue, but it's something that holds back its potential. The biggest thing about Volcarona is its reliance on team support. Like I mentioned earlier, Volcarona is almost OHKOed just by Spikes and Stealth Rocks, which is quite a hindrance on its sweeping capabilities. Although you mentioned that Pokemon such as Venusaur, Rotom-W, and Heatran as a defense since all three are hindered by different weathers, they have major differences that set them apart from the Moth. First off is Venusaur. He absolutely needs Sun to be on the field in order to succeed, because without it he's as slow as a slug. This forces you to run Ninetails on your team, similar to how Volcarona is forced to be paired with a spinner. Problem is, Venusaur actually isn't completely doomed in Rain, since he can actually still do massive damage to Keldeo and Politoad with Giga Drain, regardless of his speed. Volcarona on the other hand, has to have at least a turn of set up to even OHKO the offensive variants of Politoad with Giga Drain. Venusaur also doesn't care too much about hazards, and since it's a grounded Poison type it's actually quite helpful against Rain teams because it can remove Toxic Spikes. I just feel like Venusaur isn't completely handicapped under Rain since it can still set up on certain things regardless of Speed, and can still pose a threat with an instant +2 Attack and +2 Special Attack from one turn of Growth set up, and access to Sleep Powder. Sure Venusaur needs Sun support in order to sweep teams effectively, however he doesn't fear Rain either because of his typing, and doesn't have to worry about hazards nearly as much.

Rotom-W in my opinion, doesn't really give a damn about Weather. Sure Rotom-W functions really well in the rain, however Rotom-W is not meant to be a power house. He's almost purely for support and as a sturdy wall, because with the combination of great special defense and Will-O-Wisp, he's quite hard to take down all across the board. Rotom-W is A-Tier for several reasons. He has an amazing type combination and a plethora of useful resistances and one weakness, an amazing ability, great supporting move pool, access to Volt-Switch, great uninvested special attack, an amazing Tornadus and Rain counter, and the ability to also cripple walls with Trick. He's similar to Starmie, who actually works great on a Sun team as well since it covers a lot of weaknesses commonly seen on Sun teams. Sun only hinders one of Rotom's moves, while all of his other attributes are just fine under the Sun. I wouldn't really use Rotom-W as good comparison to Volcarona.

Now for Heatran. Similar to Rotom-W, Heatran can run a plethora of sets, whether it's support or all out power. Although Rain does nerf its Fire Blast on offensive sets, it can still get the job done, and actually 2HKOs Jirachi in the Rain no problem. Also, Heatran isn't a sweeper, and has other uses such as A Stealth Rocker, Phazer, and can cripple walls like Politoad and Gastrodon with Toxic. Heatran has more going for it in the Rain since the only thing really hurting him is his nerf to his STAB, however Heatran has a plethora of resistances and a useful immunity, making him much more prepared for the Rain filled meta game. Heatran would probably be used much more then he's used now if Rain wasn't around, and would easily be in the type 10 most used due to his much needed coverage, great all around bulk, and the ability to run an amazing offensive set or an amazing supporting set.

Similar to what Gato said above, they all have flaws that they share with Volcarona, however none of them have the huge handicap that Volcarona gets when he switches into Stealth Rocks. 25% damage is a lot, but 50% is a ton.

[Lady Alex]

There was a huge discussion about Volcarona weeks ago about whether or not Volcarona should be in A-Tier. The general consensus was that its complete reliance on a spinner and the fact that even if you do keep hazards off of the field, it has a number of common things that wall it, so it can't do its job as consistently as other A-Tier pokemon.

[Halcyon of Light]

I would like to nominate Cofagrigus for C Rank. Cofagrigus has a lot of things going for him. He has monstrous 58/145/105 defenses, which means he can sponge hits on both sides of the spectrum, not to mention being immune to Fighting (and to a lesser extent, Normal) attacks. He also has moves like Trick Room, Will-o-Wisp, and Haze for support, which, in addition to his fantastic ability Mummy, can help him stop dangerous setup sweepers like Salamence, taking about half from Outrage and crippling it with Will-o-Wisp and Mummy. It can also be a dangerous setup-er itself. With max defense investment and Calm Mind, it can be tough to take down. The only thing that hold it back, in my opinion, are its mono-Ghost typing and its lack of a recovery move outside of Rest or Pain Split. But Cofagrigus can be a decent addition to your team as an often overlooked spin-blocker. So C Rank for Cofagrigus.

[Tabuu]

When first looking at Cofagrigus, one can only wonder why this thing isn't a Top OU Threat. It has 58/145/105 defenses which are simply monstrous. Couple that with access to WoW, Calm Mind and Rest, and Cofag over here is lookin' pretty good. But apparently, it still goes on. His ability Mummy absolutely neuters so many threats it's not even funny. Multiscale Dragonite loses his only claim to fame. Scarfed MoxieMence is looking a bit less intimidating now as it really can snowball sweep you anymore. Scizor is also looking pretty medicore. If Tyranitar hits your Cofagrigus and you have another weather inducer, it could spell Good Bye to Sand.

However, this is about as far as Cofagrigus will go. Cofagrigus faces a lot of competition from the other Ghost Types, namely Jellicent. Jellicent may not have those monstrous stats but it does have a better typing. It also fares well against Drizzle threats which is significantly more useful in many cases than just Mummy-ing everything. Jellicent, too, has WoW but has what any Cofag would die for. Recover and Taunt. With those two moves, Jellicent is capable of man-handling so many threats, it's not even funny. Jellicent also acts as a better SpinBlocker as it can take Starmie better.

Cofagrigus also lacks the potential to wall a majority of OU's top threats. While things such as Terrakion will be easily walled [although SubSD+Rock Gem is a solid 2HKO if not OHKO], other things such as Latios, Hydreigon, Jellicent, Ferrothorn, Breloom, Politoed and Tyranitar can really force Cofag back into its Grave.

Outclassed and an inability to handle a majority of OU's Top Threats.
Thus far, S, A and B Rank are not possible for Cofagrigus anymore.

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are typically inferior to Pokemon in the above ranks.

So is it C-Rank?
This is where I'm a little dissatisfied with the definitions
*Note to PK: Please elaborate on some of these Definitions*
Anyways....

Cofagrigus doesn't really quite make the cut for even C-Rank in my opinion.
When looking at the threats that exist in OU, Cofagrigus really ends up becoming more of a niche Defensive Pokemon. Honestly, Mono-Ghost Typing and lack of Recovery really sucks and makes it severly outclassed by things with Better resistances and immunities and instant recovery. Sure it'll wall most Terrakions and Lucarios but why do that when we have Skarmory or Jellicent?

Cofagrigus honestly just ends up becoming dead-weight as it's a real pain to support it. It's going to need some help dealing with many of OU's Specially Oriented threats.Honestly it will just not pull its weight that well.

In my opinion, it really doesn't act as OU Viable. It's a niche and doesn't really deserve a rank; but if you really want it, D-Rank is probably the best choice.

[Ninetale3]

Honestly Cofagrigus should be a c rank poke. A fair amount of physical attackers rely on there abilities to distinguish themeselves. Scizor and techniloom fear cofagrigus more than any other physical wall because they become dead weight. It can absorb outrages which is no small feat outside of steels. It also makes a strong defensive core with blissey as they both bounce off each other fairly well.

In essence yeah cofagrigus might not be as appealing as other ghosts in ou, but the fact it can be a good physical wall while hurting some of ou's finest where it hurts. gives it a spot in c rank in my opinion.

[RabidChipmunk]

Originally Posted by Fat Ninetale3

Honestly Cofagrigus should be a c rank poke. A fair amount of physical attackers rely on there abilities to distinguish themeselves. Scizor and techniloom fear cofagrigus more than any other physical wall because they become dead weight. It can absorb outrages which is no small feat outside of steels. It also makes a strong defensive core with blissey as they both bounce off each other fairly well.

In essence yeah cofagrigus might not be as appealing as other ghosts in ou, but the fact it can be a good physical wall while hurting some of ou's finest where it hurts. gives it a spot in c rank in my opinion.

252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Cofagrigus (+Def) : 35% - 41.56% (3-4 hits to KO)

Considering Cofagrigus has no form of reliable recovery (fuq Pain Split), I wouldn't call this "absorbing".

Forming a defensive core with Blissey is just about Cofagrigus' only niche, and even then it's only any good on stall teams and any decent mixed attacker (e.g. Keldeo, one of the biggest threats in the metagame) can dismantle it. If Cofagrigus has any niche, it's in D-Rank.

[Magcargo 2]

Originally Posted by Fat Ninetale3

Honestly Cofagrigus should be a c rank poke. A fair amount of physical attackers rely on there abilities to distinguish themeselves. Scizor and techniloom fear cofagrigus more than any other physical wall because they become dead weight. It can absorb outrages which is no small feat outside of steels. It also makes a strong defensive core with blissey as they both bounce off each other fairly well.

In essence yeah cofagrigus might not be as appealing as other ghosts in ou, but the fact it can be a good physical wall while hurting some of ou's finest where it hurts. gives it a spot in c rank in my opinion.

Scizor can u-turn out and breloom can use bullet seed to hit cofagrigus pretty hard. Cofagrigus may be good in uu, but in OU, it is a worse spinblocker than jellicent and saybleye. Maybe an offensive trickroom set could work but its outclassed by by reuniclus. Cofagrigus is not viable in ou.

[Halcyon of Light]

Originally Posted by Fat RabidChipmunk

252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Cofagrigus (+Def) : 35% - 41.56% (3-4 hits to KO)

Considering Cofagrigus has no form of reliable recovery (fuq Pain Split), I wouldn't call this "absorbing".

Forming a defensive core with Blissey is just about Cofagrigus' only niche, and even then it's only any good on stall teams and any decent mixed attacker (e.g. Keldeo, one of the biggest threats in the metagame) can dismantle it. If Cofagrigus has any niche, it's in D-Rank.

252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Cofagrigus: 126-148 (39.37 - 46.25%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So even minimally invested Calm Mind Cofagrigus is only 3HKO'd by Hydro Pump from Keldeo. So If you CM on the switch and then again as Keldeo Hydro Pumps, Keldeo is looking at a 4HKO, and you can Rest back to full health and be ready to sweep, or at least put a dent in things. Cofagrigus does have more of a niche than just being paired with Blissey. Mummy is a good ability, and unlike Jellicent, Cofagrigus has the potential to set up with Calm Mind and artificially boost its already sky-high defense with Will-o-Wisp. I mean, Cofagrigus isn't the bets Pokémon in the world, but I think it fits C-Rank well. It has noticeable flaws, but with significant support, it can do a great job stopping things like Breloom (once something has been Spored) and Scizor. Not to mention Azumarill, Gyarados, Physical Kingdra, Conkeldurr, Lucario (without Crunch), Mamoswine, Toxicroak, Stoutland (even if it uses Crunch, it won't want to stay in with its ability gone), and Heracross, none of which can do much to Cofagrigus. All of those guys are in B and C tier. I think C tier is fair, but I guess I wouldn't be too upset if it were D tier either, so long as it's on the list (and I have a feeling PK is going to agree with you on this one).

[Magcargo 2]

Originally Posted by Fat Halcyon of Light

252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Cofagrigus: 126-148 (39.37 - 46.25%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So even minimally invested Calm Mind Cofagrigus is only 3HKO'd by Hydro Pump from Keldeo. So If you CM on the switch and then again as Keldeo Hydro Pumps, Keldeo is looking at a 4HKO, and you can Rest back to full health and be ready to sweep, or at least put a dent in things. Cofagrigus does have more of a niche than just being paired with Blissey. Mummy is a good ability, and unlike Jellicent, Cofagrigus has the potential to set up with Calm Mind and artificially boost its already sky-high defense with Will-o-Wisp. I mean, Cofagrigus isn't the bets Pokémon in the world, but I think it fits C-Rank well. It has noticeable flaws, but with significant support, it can do a great job stopping things like Breloom (once something has been Spored) and Scizor. Not to mention Azumarill, Gyarados, Physical Kingdra, Conkeldurr, Lucario (without Crunch), Mamoswine, Toxicroak, Stoutland (even if it uses Crunch, it won't want to stay in with its ability gone), and Heracross, none of which can do much to Cofagrigus. All of those guys are in B and C tier. I think C tier is fair, but I guess I wouldn't be too upset if it were D tier either, so long as it's on the list (and I have a feeling PK is going to agree with you on this one).

With rain factored in, we are looking at a 2HKO. Cofagrigus has a huge vlnerability to toxic and pokemon like skarmory can phaze it away. I find reuniclus to be a better calm minder because of magic gaurd.