DuskMod: A major modification to the standard metagame - Page 7

JamesSonofBaboonzo · Jan 2nd, 2013, 7:13:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Champion Steve

Okay firstly, do Fighting types really need a buff? Its not a type that I would say is on the same level as Poison or Ice?

My idea wouldn't really be a buff per say, but more like a unique move with a niche use, kinda like Foul Play. The current BP of Sky Uppercut is 85, and with Iron Fist it jumps to 102, which still makes it notably weaker than HJK and CC. It also doesn't grant the extended longevity that Drain punch would bring. In fact, the more I think about it, The more I wonder if there is a strong enough competitive reason to make that change, considering that all 'mons with Sky Uppercut have coverage against Flying Types, and generally better STAB attacks.

Yarnus of Bethany · Jan 5th, 2013, 10:00:43 AM

I want to suggest a nerf to Darm, it's just too powerful compared to other mons, especially because it resists most priority moves.
Druddigon should not get Dynamic punch, as it encroaches too much on Machamp's niche.

Matt's a minor suggestion: make Vital Throw ignore substitutes and raise its BP somewhat.

Nollan · Jan 8th, 2013, 6:54:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Yarnus of Bethany

Druddigon should not get Dynamic punch, as it encroaches too much on Machamp's niche.

Yeah, Druddigon should DEFINITELY not get Dynamic Punch and No Guard, I'd give it Cross Chop with No Guard or something like that, good enough imo. But I think Fighting-types are fine atm. I'd worry about overpowering typings (Fire and possibly Flying) getting nerfs and underpowering typings (Ice, Poison, possibly Rock and etc) getting buffs, if anything on the typing spectrum.

The Dark Hero · Jan 9th, 2013, 10:39:10 AM

So... How does that Swift idea sound?

Nollan · Jan 14th, 2013, 10:34:56 AM

It's decent, but I really doubt anyone would be using Normal-type priority in doubles when moves like Mach Punch and Aqua Jet are much more effective. But maybe we could make it like, Flying-type or something?

Nollan · Jan 16th, 2013, 10:49:54 PM

Hey, is anyone else getting a 404 Error when they go to Dusk's server?

ManaPots · Jan 16th, 2013, 10:56:31 PM

I am.

Arizona · Jan 16th, 2013, 11:20:26 PM

can't get on either at the moment
(EDIT http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3477680 though aren't these different servers? Me no good with know computer)

Meanwhile I've been doing some number crunching. My customized BST calc puts Watchog at #16 out of 171 pokemon in DM, and that's including Meloetta-P as a seperate 'mon. I want to try Watchog now; it does have the third fastest sleep I believe, after Prankster Jynx's Lovely Kiss and Gengar's Hypnosis.

Some pokemon with sadly low BSTs: Cofagrigus, Hitmontop, Stunfisk, Steelix, Venomoth, Beheeyem, Fearow. But it's not like they need urgent help; with 171 pokes in the meta, at a much denser power spread than in standard, we're already practically flooded with viable options.

thesynchrohero · Jan 19th, 2013, 4:47:30 PM

Why does tangrowth have drill run and why does escavalier have bullet punch when it has no hands ?

PureQuestion · Jan 20th, 2013, 9:37:48 AM

Because DuskMod doesn't care about flavor when it doesn't need to.

thesynchrohero · Jan 22nd, 2013, 10:31:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat PureQuestion

Because DuskMod doesn't care about flavor when it doesn't need to.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Champion Steve · Jan 22nd, 2013, 2:37:19 PM

I'm actually really impressed by Gyarados in DuskMod. All it gained was an actual usable Flying STAB move (rot in hell, Bounce) and it's now a really impressive Moxie Sweeper. It's so nice when things slot into place like that. I only found out about Water/Flying's superb coverage after being swept by a Gyarados and it makes me wonder how good a specially based Water/Flying mon would be. One that's not Swanna, I mean.

Also, I had thought regarding Normalise. What if it gave an Adaptability bonus in addition to its usual effects (and was given to things other than than Delcatty.) With a decent movepool, it might offer a nice Risk/Reward dynamic.

youngjake93 · Jan 22nd, 2013, 3:47:13 PM

Ninetales seems like a Pokemon that should have Moonlight(because it is a fox, the Drought thing is secondary), not Recover.

Arizona · Jan 22nd, 2013, 6:25:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat youngjake93

Ninetales seems like a Pokemon that should have Moonlight(because it is a fox, the Drought thing is secondary), not Recover.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat PureQuestion

Because DuskMod doesn't care about flavor when it doesn't need to.

An ability like Drought can't be considered secondary to flavor. Getting more recovery needs a more compelling reason than because it's a fox. It would only serve to slightly increase the importance of weather.

Yarnus of Bethany · Jan 22nd, 2013, 7:19:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Arizona

can't get on either at the moment
(EDIT http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3477680 though aren't these different servers? Me no good with know computer)

Meanwhile I've been doing some number crunching. My customized BST calc puts Watchog at #16 out of 171 pokemon in DM, and that's including Meloetta-P as a seperate 'mon. I want to try Watchog now; it does have the third fastest sleep I believe, after Prankster Jynx's Lovely Kiss and Gengar's Hypnosis.

Some pokemon with sadly low BSTs: Cofagrigus, Hitmontop, Stunfisk, Steelix, Venomoth, Beheeyem, Fearow. But it's not like they need urgent help; with 171 pokes in the meta, at a much denser power spread than in standard, we're already practically flooded with viable options.

I am actually afraid DM as it stands now is somewhat centralized. At least one of Sawsbuck, Zapdos, Gyarados, Escavalier, and Darmanitan is almost necessary, and stall is not very easy to play correctly. The mons you mentioned could help boost stall, so the do need attention.

Champion Steve · Jan 22nd, 2013, 7:45:21 PM

I'd agree those are kind of problem Pokemon. Sawsbuck can pull of an Extreme Killer set and can even actually use Chlorophyll (I know it's shocking, I forgot about it too.) Ain't nothing outspeeding it in Sun. Zapdos' power is kind of obvious since it's like a Thundurus that has Hurricane and can summons Rain. As for Gyarados, I dunno. There is no denying that it's powerful, but it didn't get buffed much. Well, I suppose that one buff was worth a lot. Giving Escavalier Bullet Punch kinda made it encroach on Scizor's territory, and Edgequake (well, Drilledge) was really a bit much. And Darmanitan-Z is a super bulky nuke that can use Calm Mind to become more bulky and more nukey. Or maybe it'll just nuke you straight away. Of course, no special attacker is harming it after a boost so guess well.

Arizona · Jan 22nd, 2013, 8:05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Yarnus of Bethany

I am actually afraid DM as it stands now is somewhat centralized. At least one of Sawsbuck, Zapdos, Gyarados, Escavalier, and Darmanitan is almost necessary, and stall is not very easy to play correctly. The mons you mentioned could help boost stall, so the do need attention.

Mmm, well it's difficult to comment on. Centralization, frankly, is probably inevitable on a statistical level because of the small number of people and therefore teams. I've made teams and had success with and without one of those five pokemon, and they aren't the first five I would list as most necessary. From each of our limited perspectives different pokemon might appear to be "almost necessary," simply because they haven't faced a wide enough array of opponents. What does seem common to our limited experiences is that stall is no good.

The true degree of centralization relative to Standard OU is impossible to determine unless DM's playerbase equals Standard's. But I think it must be less centralized since UU, RU, and NU pokes were preferentially buffed (yes there are a few oddballs that need adjusting like Keldeo and Mew getting better buffs than Cofagrigus and Sigilyph). Most of all weather was pulled back significantly, although perhaps not enough yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Champion Steve

Sawsbuck can pull of an Extreme Killer set and can even actually use Chlorophyll (I know it's shocking, I forgot about it too.) Ain't nothing outspeeding it in Sun....Giving Escavalier Bullet Punch kinda made it encroach on Scizor's territory, and Edgequake (well, Drilledge) was really a bit much.

Chlorophyll gives a x1.5 boost now. Anything with a scarf and 102 or more speed can outspeed it. As for Escavalier, yeah it got good buffs. It's RU.

Champion Steve · Jan 22nd, 2013, 8:41:37 PM

My point was that a lot of the things fast enough to outspeed it in Sun aren't the kind of things that could take an ExtremeSpeed. As for Escavalier, we ARE talking about something stronger and bulkier than Scizor.

Arizona · Jan 22nd, 2013, 9:32:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Champion Steve

My point was that a lot of the things fast enough to outspeed it in Sun aren't the kind of things that could take an ExtremeSpeed. As for Escavalier, we ARE talking about something stronger and bulkier than Scizor.

Pretty sure Crobat, Aerodactyl, Scyther, Gengar, Durant, the Musketeers (minus Viriz maybe), Sawk, Primeape, Archeops, and Leavany aren't OHKO'd by unboosted Xspeed. Now at +2 it's a different matter, but my point wasn't that the best way to handle ChloroSawsbuck was more speed, just pointing out that "ain't nothing outspeeding under sun" was incorrect.

It's debatable if Escavalier is "stronger" than Technician Scizor. Scizor also gets U-turn and Roost and outspeeds about 19% more pokes without investment and quite a few more with investment. I agree that Escavalier is good. I don't agree that it is one of five "almost necessary" pokemon.

Dusk209 · Jan 27th, 2013, 10:58:06 AM

Due to issues with no-ip, the server is now hosted at http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/~~24.188.20.224/lobby. I am also looking to do some updates to DuskMod itself in the future, because currently it's very messy and has some dumb things (extremespeed sawsbuck with a great atk stat? What was I thinking?)

Champion Steve · Jan 29th, 2013, 2:08:35 PM

I worry that not a lot of people have seen that the server was moved. Also, if you're considering removing some changes, why not re-nerf Explosion? I personally feel that it doesn't really promote skillful play.

Nollan · Feb 11th, 2013, 11:36:06 PM

When it comes to Explosion, I think the Gen 4 Mechanics were much more promotive of its use and should be revived, but that's just my opinion I suppose.

Arizona · Feb 25th, 2013, 7:16:32 PM

Haven't played in a while, but have been poking at my BST formula periodically and I think it's in a pretty good form now. Physical bulk is the square root of the product of uninvested HP and uninvested Def, similarly for special bulk. Attack is the higher uninvested attacking stat multiplied by a factor related to the lower uninvested attacking stat. Speed is the highest uninvested speed in the tier (electrode's 336) multiplied by the speed percentile of the pokemon.

...

HTML Code:

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<body>
<table border="1">
<tr>
<th>Pokemon</th>
<th>Physical Bulk</th>
<th>Special Bulk</th>
<th>Attacking</th>
<th>Speed</th>
<th>Total</th>
</tr>
<tr><td>	Meloetta-P	</td><td>	271.4	</td><td>	254.5	</td><td>	292.0	</td><td>	322.2	</td><td>	1140.2	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Tornadus-T	</td><td>	235.8	</td><td>	254.1	</td><td>	295.2	</td><td>	318.2	</td><td>	1103.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Terrakion	</td><td>	264.1	</td><td>	264.1	</td><td>	294.0	</td><td>	273.2	</td><td>	1095.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Keldeo	</td><td>	264.1	</td><td>	264.1	</td><td>	294.0	</td><td>	273.2	</td><td>	1095.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Tornadus	</td><td>	229.4	</td><td>	242.1	</td><td>	327.2	</td><td>	296.7	</td><td>	1095.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Thundurus	</td><td>	229.4	</td><td>	242.1	</td><td>	327.2	</td><td>	296.7	</td><td>	1095.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Virizion	</td><td>	241.1	</td><td>	308.2	</td><td>	259.2	</td><td>	273.2	</td><td>	1081.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Cobalion	</td><td>	308.2	</td><td>	241.1	</td><td>	259.2	</td><td>	273.2	</td><td>	1081.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Landorus	</td><td>	262.5	</td><td>	250.0	</td><td>	327.2	</td><td>	236.2	</td><td>	1076.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Durant	</td><td>	279.7	</td><td>	224.9	</td><td>	276.0	</td><td>	284.9	</td><td>	1065.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Mew	</td><td>	283.7	</td><td>	283.7	</td><td>	283.2	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	1059.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Victini	</td><td>	283.7	</td><td>	283.7	</td><td>	283.2	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	1059.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Tauros	</td><td>	256.4	</td><td>	213.1	</td><td>	296.0	</td><td>	286.9	</td><td>	1052.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Watchog	</td><td>	252.4	</td><td>	252.4	</td><td>	271.2	</td><td>	273.2	</td><td>	1049.1	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Hydreigon	</td><td>	263.3	</td><td>	263.3	</td><td>	311.2	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	1046.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Genesect	</td><td>	252.9	</td><td>	252.9	</td><td>	331.2	</td><td>	205.0	</td><td>	1042.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Crobat	</td><td>	246.9	</td><td>	246.9	</td><td>	227.2	</td><td>	324.2	</td><td>	1045.2	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Scyther	</td><td>	249.0	</td><td>	249.0	</td><td>	256.0	</td><td>	286.9	</td><td>	1041.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Zebstrika	</td><td>	217.1	</td><td>	217.1	</td><td>	295.2	</td><td>	310.5	</td><td>	1039.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Espeon	</td><td>	205.6	</td><td>	247.5	</td><td>	296.0	</td><td>	286.9	</td><td>	1036.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Leavanny	</td><td>	241.4	</td><td>	267.4	</td><td>	275.2	</td><td>	252.0	</td><td>	1036.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Thundurus-T	</td><td>	229.4	</td><td>	242.1	</td><td>	327.2	</td><td>	236.2	</td><td>	1034.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Cryogonal	</td><td>	242.9	</td><td>	308.4	</td><td>	226.0	</td><td>	255.7	</td><td>	1033.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Jolteon	</td><td>	205.6	</td><td>	247.5	</td><td>	256.0	</td><td>	324.2	</td><td>	1033.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Sawk	</td><td>	242.9	</td><td>	242.9	</td><td>	286.0	</td><td>	255.7	</td><td>	1027.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Aerodactyl	</td><td>	223.5	</td><td>	236.6	</td><td>	246.0	</td><td>	324.2	</td><td>	1030.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Raticate	</td><td>	234.7	</td><td>	234.7	</td><td>	246.0	</td><td>	310.5	</td><td>	1025.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Alakazam	</td><td>	177.8	</td><td>	227.4	</td><td>	306.0	</td><td>	310.5	</td><td>	1021.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Leafeon	</td><td>	205.6	</td><td>	212.1	</td><td>	283.2	</td><td>	324.2	</td><td>	1025.2	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Persian	</td><td>	232.6	</td><td>	232.6	</td><td>	251.2	</td><td>	304.4	</td><td>	1020.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Simipour	</td><td>	275.2	</td><td>	281.0	</td><td>	227.2	</td><td>	236.2	</td><td>	1019.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Meloetta-A	</td><td>	254.5	</td><td>	315.6	</td><td>	292.0	</td><td>	156.2	</td><td>	1018.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Landorus-T	</td><td>	262.5	</td><td>	250.0	</td><td>	327.2	</td><td>	177.7	</td><td>	1017.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Archeops	</td><td>	219.8	</td><td>	219.8	</td><td>	306.0	</td><td>	271.5	</td><td>	1017.1	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Zapdos	</td><td>	257.1	</td><td>	263.3	</td><td>	287.2	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	1016.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Primeape	</td><td>	252.1	</td><td>	252.1	</td><td>	256.0	</td><td>	255.7	</td><td>	1015.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Scolipede 	</td><td>	242.9	</td><td>	213.1	</td><td>	256.0	</td><td>	300.7	</td><td>	1012.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Starmie	</td><td>	231.9	</td><td>	231.9	</td><td>	243.2	</td><td>	304.4	</td><td>	1011.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Haxorus	</td><td>	251.6	</td><td>	227.1	</td><td>	330.0	</td><td>	199.2	</td><td>	1007.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Serperior	</td><td>	246.4	</td><td>	254.2	</td><td>	255.2	</td><td>	252.0	</td><td>	1007.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Electrode	</td><td>	214.3	</td><td>	226.2	</td><td>	236.0	</td><td>	334.0	</td><td>	1010.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Gengar	</td><td>	201.8	</td><td>	220.3	</td><td>	296.0	</td><td>	286.9	</td><td>	1005.1	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Liepard	</td><td>	234.7	</td><td>	228.6	</td><td>	271.2	</td><td>	269.5	</td><td>	1004.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Pidgeot	</td><td>	241.3	</td><td>	241.3	</td><td>	271.2	</td><td>	250.0	</td><td>	1003.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Accelgor	</td><td>	208.9	</td><td>	208.9	</td><td>	256.0	</td><td>	332.0	</td><td>	1005.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Cinccino	</td><td>	213.1	</td><td>	213.1	</td><td>	256.0	</td><td>	320.2	</td><td>	1002.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Volcarona	</td><td>	227.2	</td><td>	276.6	</td><td>	286.0	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	998.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Krookodile	</td><td>	241.4	</td><td>	241.4	</td><td>	276.0	</td><td>	236.2	</td><td>	994.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Dodrio	</td><td>	209.4	</td><td>	222.4	</td><td>	276.0	</td><td>	286.9	</td><td>	994.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Keldeo-R	</td><td>	248.1	</td><td>	248.1	</td><td>	319.2	</td><td>	177.7	</td><td>	993.2	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Mienshao	</td><td>	205.6	</td><td>	236.3	</td><td>	295.2	</td><td>	255.7	</td><td>	992.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Excadrill	</td><td>	237.3	</td><td>	237.3	</td><td>	306.0	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	989.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Butterfree	</td><td>	216.7	</td><td>	255.0	</td><td>	256.0	</td><td>	255.7	</td><td>	983.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Zoroark	</td><td>	209.4	</td><td>	209.4	</td><td>	307.2	</td><td>	255.7	</td><td>	981.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Articuno	</td><td>	275.2	</td><td>	303.0	</td><td>	255.2	</td><td>	148.2	</td><td>	981.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Bellossom	</td><td>	244.8	</td><td>	283.4	</td><td>	243.2	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	980.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Moltres	</td><td>	263.3	</td><td>	257.1	</td><td>	303.2	</td><td>	156.2	</td><td>	979.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Porygon2*	</td><td>	317.4	</td><td>	338.8	</td><td>	258.4	</td><td>	64.2	</td><td>	978.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Galvantula	</td><td>	213.1	</td><td>	226.3	</td><td>	266.0	</td><td>	273.2	</td><td>	978.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Vileplume	</td><td>	244.8	</td><td>	250.7	</td><td>	276.8	</td><td>	205.0	</td><td>	977.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Dragonite	</td><td>	270.2	</td><td>	276.1	</td><td>	310.4	</td><td>	116.9	</td><td>	973.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Charizard	</td><td>	222.2	</td><td>	249.0	</td><td>	293.6	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	973.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Whimsicott	</td><td>	231.9	</td><td>	220.3	</td><td>	210.4	</td><td>	308.4	</td><td>	971.1	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Beedrill	</td><td>	255.0	</td><td>	216.7	</td><td>	286.0	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	966.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Arcanine	</td><td>	250.8	</td><td>	250.8	</td><td>	279.2	</td><td>	183.5	</td><td>	964.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Alomomola	</td><td>	303.8	</td><td>	253.1	</td><td>	196.0	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	961.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Hitmonlee	</td><td>	223.3	</td><td>	305.6	</td><td>	276.0	</td><td>	154.2	</td><td>	959.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Gyarados	</td><td>	253.4	</td><td>	279.5	</td><td>	286.0	</td><td>	138.4	</td><td>	957.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Tentacruel	</td><td>	230.8	</td><td>	297.7	</td><td>	219.2	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	956.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Rapidash	</td><td>	218.4	</td><td>	230.5	</td><td>	251.2	</td><td>	255.7	</td><td>	955.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Beartic	</td><td>	279.2	</td><td>	272.7	</td><td>	286.0	</td><td>	116.9	</td><td>	954.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Darmanitan-Z	</td><td>	293.8	</td><td>	293.8	</td><td>	316.0	</td><td>	50.7	</td><td>	954.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Electivire	</td><td>	222.4	</td><td>	244.8	</td><td>	302.0	</td><td>	183.5	</td><td>	952.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Darmanitan	</td><td>	226.4	</td><td>	226.4	</td><td>	316.0	</td><td>	183.5	</td><td>	952.2	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Arbok	</td><td>	250.7	</td><td>	244.8	</td><td>	250.0	</td><td>	202.9	</td><td>	948.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Flareon	</td><td>	205.6	</td><td>	263.4	</td><td>	296.0	</td><td>	183.5	</td><td>	948.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Sawsbuck	</td><td>	209.4	</td><td>	234.7	</td><td>	264.0	</td><td>	236.2	</td><td>	944.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Simisage	</td><td>	217.1	</td><td>	217.1	</td><td>	271.2	</td><td>	236.2	</td><td>	941.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Simisear	</td><td>	217.1	</td><td>	217.1	</td><td>	271.2	</td><td>	236.2	</td><td>	941.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Vanilluxe	</td><td>	249.0	</td><td>	260.8	</td><td>	275.2	</td><td>	156.2	</td><td>	941.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Mr. Mime	</td><td>	249.0	</td><td>	298.5	</td><td>	236.0	</td><td>	156.2	</td><td>	939.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Nidoking	</td><td>	255.8	</td><td>	255.8	</td><td>	240.0	</td><td>	183.5	</td><td>	935.1	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Kangaskhan	</td><td>	262.3	</td><td>	262.3	</td><td>	226.0	</td><td>	183.5	</td><td>	934.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Dugtrio	</td><td>	181.0	</td><td>	206.0	</td><td>	236.0	</td><td>	310.5	</td><td>	933.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Marowak*	</td><td>	272.9	</td><td>	244.8	</td><td>	392.0	</td><td>	25.2	</td><td>	935.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Porygon-Z	</td><td>	222.4	</td><td>	228.6	</td><td>	326.0	</td><td>	156.2	</td><td>	933.2	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Kingdra	</td><td>	256.4	</td><td>	256.4	</td><td>	271.2	</td><td>	148.2	</td><td>	932.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Magmortar	</td><td>	222.4	</td><td>	256.4	</td><td>	306.0	</td><td>	146.5	</td><td>	931.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Venusaur	</td><td>	256.8	</td><td>	270.9	</td><td>	259.2	</td><td>	142.5	</td><td>	929.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Parasect	</td><td>	296.7	</td><td>	267.4	</td><td>	246.0	</td><td>	116.9	</td><td>	927.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Kingler	</td><td>	268.2	</td><td>	219.8	</td><td>	296.0	</td><td>	142.5	</td><td>	926.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Glaceon	</td><td>	212.1	</td><td>	205.6	</td><td>	323.2	</td><td>	183.5	</td><td>	924.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Raichu	</td><td>	224.5	</td><td>	230.5	</td><td>	259.2	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	923.2	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Braviary	</td><td>	251.8	</td><td>	237.9	</td><td>	276.0	</td><td>	156.2	</td><td>	922.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Hitmonchan	</td><td>	260.9	</td><td>	299.8	</td><td>	246.0	</td><td>	113.2	</td><td>	919.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Ninetales	</td><td>	236.6	</td><td>	266.5	</td><td>	207.2	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	919.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Golduck	</td><td>	240.4	</td><td>	242.9	</td><td>	283.2	</td><td>	148.2	</td><td>	914.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Sigilyph	</td><td>	236.3	</td><td>	236.3	</td><td>	242.0	</td><td>	199.2	</td><td>	913.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Nidoqueen	</td><td>	267.4	</td><td>	267.4	</td><td>	240.0	</td><td>	138.4	</td><td>	913.2	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Bouffalant	</td><td>	285.6	</td><td>	285.6	</td><td>	286.0	</td><td>	50.7	</td><td>	908.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Pinsir	</td><td>	266.5	</td><td>	255.0	</td><td>	276.0	</td><td>	109.2	</td><td>	906.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Emboar	</td><td>	288.1	</td><td>	244.8	</td><td>	282.0	</td><td>	91.7	</td><td>	906.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Rhyperior	</td><td>	331.4	</td><td>	232.7	</td><td>	316.0	</td><td>	25.2	</td><td>	905.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Lilligant	</td><td>	238.8	</td><td>	238.8	</td><td>	266.0	</td><td>	156.2	</td><td>	899.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Swoobat	</td><td>	200.4	</td><td>	200.4	</td><td>	196.0	</td><td>	302.7	</td><td>	899.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Seismitoad	</td><td>	266.0	</td><td>	266.0	</td><td>	259.2	</td><td>	107.2	</td><td>	898.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Hypno	</td><td>	263.4	</td><td>	282.4	</td><td>	232.0	</td><td>	116.9	</td><td>	894.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Samurott	</td><td>	261.1	</td><td>	241.4	</td><td>	273.6	</td><td>	116.9	</td><td>	893.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Lapras	</td><td>	280.3	</td><td>	301.0	</td><td>	247.2	</td><td>	64.2	</td><td>	892.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Stoutland	</td><td>	259.2	</td><td>	259.2	</td><td>	256.0	</td><td>	116.9	</td><td>	891.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Vaporeon	</td><td>	250.1	</td><td>	301.0	</td><td>	256.0	</td><td>	82.0	</td><td>	889.1	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Chandelure	</td><td>	237.4	</td><td>	237.4	</td><td>	296.0	</td><td>	116.9	</td><td>	887.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Clefable	</td><td>	272.2	</td><td>	334.6	</td><td>	216.0	</td><td>	64.2	</td><td>	887.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Wigglytuff	</td><td>	334.6	</td><td>	272.2	</td><td>	216.0	</td><td>	64.2	</td><td>	887.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Mandibuzz	</td><td>	298.0	</td><td>	285.6	</td><td>	183.2	</td><td>	116.9	</td><td>	883.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Poliwrath	</td><td>	269.3	</td><td>	250.8	</td><td>	296.0	</td><td>	64.2	</td><td>	880.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Unfezant	</td><td>	242.9	</td><td>	209.6	</td><td>	246.0	</td><td>	181.4	</td><td>	880.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Magnezone	</td><td>	273.4	</td><td>	246.4	</td><td>	296.0	</td><td>	64.2	</td><td>	879.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Klinklang	</td><td>	263.5	</td><td>	231.9	</td><td>	227.2	</td><td>	156.2	</td><td>	878.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Blastoise	</td><td>	288.4	</td><td>	288.4	</td><td>	236.8	</td><td>	64.2	</td><td>	877.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Snorlax	</td><td>	276.6	</td><td>	343.5	</td><td>	256.0	</td><td>	5.7	</td><td>	881.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Umbreon	</td><td>	291.1	</td><td>	313.0	</td><td>	191.2	</td><td>	82.0	</td><td>	877.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Blissey	</td><td>	190.9	</td><td>	446.3	</td><td>	216.0	</td><td>	25.2	</td><td>	878.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Conkeldurr	</td><td>	281.6	</td><td>	241.4	</td><td>	316.0	</td><td>	39.0	</td><td>	878.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Bisharp	</td><td>	273.4	</td><td>	222.4	</td><td>	286.0	</td><td>	91.7	</td><td>	873.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Machamp	</td><td>	258.5	</td><td>	265.0	</td><td>	296.0	</td><td>	50.7	</td><td>	870.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Scizor	</td><td>	257.5	</td><td>	234.7	</td><td>	296.0	</td><td>	82.0	</td><td>	870.2	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Garbodor	</td><td>	270.9	</td><td>	259.2	</td><td>	247.2	</td><td>	91.7	</td><td>	869.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Jynx	</td><td>	169.5	</td><td>	247.5	</td><td>	266.0	</td><td>	183.5	</td><td>	866.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Gigalith	</td><td>	303.4	</td><td>	259.2	</td><td>	306.0	</td><td>	1.7	</td><td>	870.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Swanna	</td><td>	236.3	</td><td>	245.8	</td><td>	268.0	</td><td>	115.2	</td><td>	865.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Pikachu*	</td><td>	142.3	</td><td>	156.4	</td><td>	410.3	</td><td>	156.2	</td><td>	865.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Sandslash	</td><td>	266.5	</td><td>	242.9	</td><td>	246.0	</td><td>	109.2	</td><td>	864.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Weezing	</td><td>	323.4	</td><td>	254.7	</td><td>	243.2	</td><td>	42.7	</td><td>	864.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Carracosta	</td><td>	285.5	</td><td>	205.4	</td><td>	281.6	</td><td>	91.7	</td><td>	864.2	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Tangrowth	</td><td>	312.3	</td><td>	215.4	</td><td>	291.2	</td><td>	42.7	</td><td>	861.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Victreebel	</td><td>	223.5	</td><td>	216.7	</td><td>	299.2	</td><td>	116.9	</td><td>	856.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Eelektross	</td><td>	246.9	</td><td>	246.9	</td><td>	319.2	</td><td>	42.7	</td><td>	855.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Exeggutor	</td><td>	263.3	</td><td>	263.3	</td><td>	304.8	</td><td>	25.2	</td><td>	856.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Seaking	</td><td>	249.0	</td><td>	249.0	</td><td>	266.0	</td><td>	89.7	</td><td>	853.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Golurk	</td><td>	272.9	</td><td>	244.8	</td><td>	284.0	</td><td>	50.7	</td><td>	852.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Escavalier	</td><td>	262.9	</td><td>	262.9	</td><td>	306.0	</td><td>	21.2	</td><td>	853.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Kabutops	</td><td>	253.4	</td><td>	214.3	</td><td>	266.0	</td><td>	116.9	</td><td>	850.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Throh	</td><td>	271.4	</td><td>	295.5	</td><td>	246.0	</td><td>	39.0	</td><td>	851.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Gothitelle	</td><td>	252.0	</td><td>	268.2	</td><td>	236.0	</td><td>	91.7	</td><td>	847.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Politoed	</td><td>	244.3	</td><td>	275.2	</td><td>	235.2	</td><td>	91.7	</td><td>	846.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Drifblim	</td><td>	233.8	</td><td>	252.0	</td><td>	243.2	</td><td>	116.9	</td><td>	846.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Chansey*	</td><td>	210.3	</td><td>	486.3	</td><td>	106.0	</td><td>	42.7	</td><td>	845.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Dewgong	</td><td>	253.1	</td><td>	303.4	</td><td>	223.2	</td><td>	64.2	</td><td>	843.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Fearow	</td><td>	212.1	</td><td>	206.9	</td><td>	216.0	</td><td>	209.0	</td><td>	844.0	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Muk	</td><td>	281.6	</td><td>	262.3	</td><td>	263.2	</td><td>	37.0	</td><td>	844.1	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Golem	</td><td>	308.2	</td><td>	247.0	</td><td>	256.0	</td><td>	25.2	</td><td>	836.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Cloyster	</td><td>	308.9	</td><td>	174.3	</td><td>	255.2	</td><td>	91.7	</td><td>	830.1	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Musharna	</td><td>	277.2	</td><td>	302.9	</td><td>	250.0	</td><td>	3.7	</td><td>	833.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Lickilicky	</td><td>	291.9	</td><td>	291.9	</td><td>	239.2	</td><td>	5.7	</td><td>	828.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Omastar	</td><td>	283.5	</td><td>	222.4	</td><td>	266.0	</td><td>	50.7	</td><td>	822.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Heatmor	</td><td>	228.6	</td><td>	228.6	</td><td>	282.4	</td><td>	82.0	</td><td>	821.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Reuniclus	</td><td>	259.1	</td><td>	272.7	</td><td>	286.0	</td><td>	5.7	</td><td>	823.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Crustle	</td><td>	283.5	</td><td>	257.5	</td><td>	226.0	</td><td>	50.7	</td><td>	817.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Druddigon	</td><td>	260.8	</td><td>	260.8	</td><td>	276.0	</td><td>	21.2	</td><td>	818.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Scrafty	</td><td>	268.5	</td><td>	268.5	</td><td>	216.0	</td><td>	62.5	</td><td>	815.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Venomoth	</td><td>	209.4	</td><td>	228.6	</td><td>	219.2	</td><td>	156.2	</td><td>	813.4	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Jellicent	</td><td>	251.8	</td><td>	289.6	</td><td>	207.2	</td><td>	64.2	</td><td>	812.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Steelix	</td><td>	356.2	</td><td>	238.8	</td><td>	206.0	</td><td>	5.7	</td><td>	806.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Hitmontop	</td><td>	233.4	</td><td>	248.4	</td><td>	226.0	</td><td>	91.7	</td><td>	799.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Beheeyem	</td><td>	232.6	</td><td>	256.4	</td><td>	286.0	</td><td>	25.2	</td><td>	800.3	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Ferrothorn	</td><td>	293.5	</td><td>	278.3	</td><td>	224.0	</td><td>	0.0	</td><td>	795.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Stunfisk	</td><td>	270.6	</td><td>	289.8	</td><td>	213.6	</td><td>	19.5	</td><td>	793.5	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Slowking	</td><td>	254.7	</td><td>	291.1	</td><td>	243.2	</td><td>	5.7	</td><td>	794.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Slowbro	</td><td>	291.1	</td><td>	254.7	</td><td>	243.2	</td><td>	5.7	</td><td>	794.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Amoonguss	</td><td>	254.8	</td><td>	268.9	</td><td>	247.2	</td><td>	5.7	</td><td>	776.7	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Cofagrigus	</td><td>	289.5	</td><td>	251.4	</td><td>	226.0	</td><td>	5.7	</td><td>	772.6	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	Ditto	</td><td>	185.6	</td><td>	185.6	</td><td>	158.4	</td><td>	42.0	</td><td>	571.6	</td></tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>

Edit how do I shot HTML? Well here is a list of the totals.

...

1140.2 Meloetta-P
1103.4 Tornadus-T
1095.4 Terrakion
1095.4 Keldeo
1095.4 Tornadus
1095.4 Thundurus
1081.6 Virizion
1081.6 Cobalion
1076.0 Landorus
1065.6 Durant
1059.6 Mew
1059.6 Victini
1052.5 Tauros
1049.1 Watchog
1046.8 Hydreigon
1042.0 Genesect
1045.2 Crobat
1041.0 Scyther
1039.9 Zebstrika
1036.0 Espeon
1036.0 Leavanny
1034.9 Thundurus-T
1033.0 Cryogonal
1033.3 Jolteon
1027.5 Sawk
1030.4 Aerodactyl
1025.8 Raticate
1021.7 Alakazam
1025.2 Leafeon
1020.9 Persian
1019.7 Simipour
1018.3 Meloetta-A
1017.5 Landorus-T
1017.1 Archeops
1016.7 Zapdos
1015.8 Primeape
1012.7 Scolipede
1011.4 Starmie
1007.9 Haxorus
1007.8 Serperior
1010.5 Electrode
1005.1 Gengar
1004.0 Liepard
1003.7 Pidgeot
1005.8 Accelgor
1002.3 Cinccino
998.8 Volcarona
994.9 Krookodile
994.7 Dodrio
993.2 Keldeo-R
992.8 Mienshao
989.6 Excadrill
983.4 Butterfree
981.6 Zoroark
981.6 Articuno
980.4 Bellossom
979.9 Moltres
978.8 Porygon2*
978.5 Galvantula
977.3 Vileplume
973.6 Dragonite
973.8 Charizard
971.1 Whimsicott
966.7 Beedrill
964.3 Arcanine
961.9 Alomomola
959.0 Hitmonlee
957.3 Gyarados
956.7 Tentacruel
955.8 Rapidash
954.9 Beartic
954.4 Darmanitan-Z
952.7 Electivire
952.2 Darmanitan
948.5 Arbok
948.5 Flareon
944.3 Sawsbuck
941.7 Simisage
941.7 Simisear
941.3 Vanilluxe
939.7 Mr. Mime
935.1 Nidoking
934.0 Kangaskhan
933.5 Dugtrio
935.0 Marowak*
933.2 Porygon-Z
932.3 Kingdra
931.4 Magmortar
929.4 Venusaur
927.0 Parasect
926.5 Kingler
924.4 Glaceon
923.2 Raichu
922.0 Braviary
919.9 Hitmonchan
919.3 Ninetales
914.7 Golduck
913.9 Sigilyph
913.2 Nidoqueen
908.0 Bouffalant
906.7 Pinsir
906.7 Emboar
905.3 Rhyperior
899.9 Lilligant
899.5 Swoobat
898.4 Seismitoad
894.7 Hypno
893.0 Samurott
892.8 Lapras
891.3 Stoutland
889.1 Vaporeon
887.8 Chandelure
887.0 Clefable
887.0 Wigglytuff
883.8 Mandibuzz
880.4 Poliwrath
880.0 Unfezant
879.9 Magnezone
878.8 Klinklang
877.9 Blastoise
881.9 Snorlax
877.3 Umbreon
878.5 Blissey
878.0 Conkeldurr
873.5 Bisharp
870.3 Machamp
870.2 Scizor
869.0 Garbodor
866.4 Jynx
870.3 Gigalith
865.4 Swanna
865.3 Pikachu*
864.6 Sandslash
864.0 Weezing
864.2 Carracosta
861.5 Tangrowth
856.4 Victreebel
855.7 Eelektross
856.6 Exeggutor
853.7 Seaking
852.5 Golurk
853.0 Escavalier
850.6 Kabutops
851.8 Throh
847.9 Gothitelle
846.5 Politoed
846.0 Drifblim
845.3 Chansey*
843.9 Dewgong
844.0 Fearow
844.1 Muk
836.4 Golem
830.1 Cloyster
833.8 Musharna
828.7 Lickilicky
822.6 Omastar
821.5 Heatmor
823.5 Reuniclus
817.7 Crustle
818.8 Druddigon
815.5 Scrafty
813.4 Venomoth
812.9 Jellicent
806.7 Steelix
799.5 Hitmontop
800.3 Beheeyem
795.8 Ferrothorn
793.5 Stunfisk
794.7 Slowking
794.7 Slowbro
776.7 Amoonguss
772.6 Cofagrigus
571.6 Ditto

Dusk209 · Apr 21st, 2013, 9:15:07 AM

Alright, I'm reviving this thread. The first post will explain everything, but to put it shortly I've redone the mod and its a lot different now. As a warning, though, there aren't many people who go on the server nowadays so it might take a while to regain the playerbase.

TheBurgerKing99 · Apr 21st, 2013, 3:58:59 PM

Yay this is finally up. Now, this metagame has been on for a couple of months before the thread got changed, so I'm gona list some things to help new people out:
1. Pack a counter for suicune, it didn't appear to get much, but access to reliable recovery allows it to run Crocune much more effectively, and wall almost everything.
2. Hail is a much more major threat, and makes common use of pokemon such as mamoswine, frosslass, and raikou. Don't discount it when teambuilding; either using or preparing for.
3. Quick powder is one of the most useful items in the game, and can make or break a pokemon, due to it's ability to jump speed tiers. Be sure to look out for this when running offense.

Jan 14th, 2013, 10:34:56 AM	#155
Nollan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 39 Earth, Milky Way	It's decent, but I really doubt anyone would be using Normal-type priority in doubles when moves like Mach Punch and Aqua Jet are much more effective. But maybe we could make it like, Flying-type or something? __________________ Feel free to pay of visit to: play.pokemonshowdown.com/~~nollansfactory

Jan 16th, 2013, 10:49:54 PM	#156
Nollan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 39 Earth, Milky Way	Hey, is anyone else getting a 404 Error when they go to Dusk's server? __________________ Feel free to pay of visit to: play.pokemonshowdown.com/~~nollansfactory

Jan 16th, 2013, 11:20:26 PM	#158
Arizona Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 50	can't get on either at the moment (EDIT http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3477680 though aren't these different servers? Me no good with know computer) Meanwhile I've been doing some number crunching. My customized BST calc puts Watchog at #16 out of 171 pokemon in DM, and that's including Meloetta-P as a seperate 'mon. I want to try Watchog now; it does have the third fastest sleep I believe, after Prankster Jynx's Lovely Kiss and Gengar's Hypnosis. Some pokemon with sadly low BSTs: Cofagrigus, Hitmontop, Stunfisk, Steelix, Venomoth, Beheeyem, Fearow. But it's not like they need urgent help; with 171 pokes in the meta, at a much denser power spread than in standard, we're already practically flooded with viable options. Last edited by Arizona; Jan 17th, 2013 at 12:02:13 AM.

Jan 20th, 2013, 9:37:48 AM	#160
PureQuestion Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 166	Because DuskMod doesn't care about flavor when it doesn't need to. __________________ 11:57 DougJustDoug In fact, to win Member of the Year, that means you are a talented genius and you must be althletic, well-mannered, and quite handsome too. 11:57 PureQuestion Doug how many times have you won member of the year 11:57 DougJustDoug ... twice.

Jan 22nd, 2013, 3:47:13 PM	#163
youngjake93 Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 291	Ninetales seems like a Pokemon that should have Moonlight(because it is a fox, the Drought thing is secondary), not Recover. __________________ http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3475016 Rate My Team?

Jan 5th, 2013, 10:00:43 AM	#152
Yarnus of Bethany Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,844 In the world, but not of the world	I want to suggest a nerf to Darm, it's just too powerful compared to other mons, especially because it resists most priority moves. Druddigon should not get Dynamic punch, as it encroaches too much on Machamp's niche. Matt's a minor suggestion: make Vital Throw ignore substitutes and raise its BP somewhat.

Jan 9th, 2013, 10:39:10 AM	#154
The Dark Hero Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 60	So... How does that Swift idea sound?

Jan 16th, 2013, 10:56:31 PM	#157
ManaPots Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 2	I am.

Jan 19th, 2013, 4:47:30 PM	#159
thesynchrohero Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 181	Why does tangrowth have drill run and why does escavalier have bullet punch when it has no hands ?

Jan 22nd, 2013, 2:37:19 PM	#162
Champion Steve Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 156	I'm actually really impressed by Gyarados in DuskMod. All it gained was an actual usable Flying STAB move (rot in hell, Bounce) and it's now a really impressive Moxie Sweeper. It's so nice when things slot into place like that. I only found out about Water/Flying's superb coverage after being swept by a Gyarados and it makes me wonder how good a specially based Water/Flying mon would be. One that's not Swanna, I mean. Also, I had thought regarding Normalise. What if it gave an Adaptability bonus in addition to its usual effects (and was given to things other than than Delcatty.) With a decent movepool, it might offer a nice Risk/Reward dynamic.

Jan 22nd, 2013, 7:45:21 PM	#166
Champion Steve Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 156	I'd agree those are kind of problem Pokemon. Sawsbuck can pull of an Extreme Killer set and can even actually use Chlorophyll (I know it's shocking, I forgot about it too.) Ain't nothing outspeeding it in Sun. Zapdos' power is kind of obvious since it's like a Thundurus that has Hurricane and can summons Rain. As for Gyarados, I dunno. There is no denying that it's powerful, but it didn't get buffed much. Well, I suppose that one buff was worth a lot. Giving Escavalier Bullet Punch kinda made it encroach on Scizor's territory, and Edgequake (well, Drilledge) was really a bit much. And Darmanitan-Z is a super bulky nuke that can use Calm Mind to become more bulky and more nukey. Or maybe it'll just nuke you straight away. Of course, no special attacker is harming it after a boost so guess well.

Jan 22nd, 2013, 8:41:37 PM	#168
Champion Steve Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 156	My point was that a lot of the things fast enough to outspeed it in Sun aren't the kind of things that could take an ExtremeSpeed. As for Escavalier, we ARE talking about something stronger and bulkier than Scizor.

Jan 27th, 2013, 10:58:06 AM	#170
Dusk209 No relation. Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 149	Due to issues with no-ip, the server is now hosted at http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/~~24.188.20.224/lobby. I am also looking to do some updates to DuskMod itself in the future, because currently it's very messy and has some dumb things (extremespeed sawsbuck with a great atk stat? What was I thinking?) __________________ [15:13:52] <&Zarel> Dusk209, you lied to me so much :( [15:14:47] <%Dusk209> Is there anything I can do to make up for my sins [15:15:42] <&Zarel> Dusk209, I accept blowjobs

Jan 29th, 2013, 2:08:35 PM	#171
Champion Steve Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 156	I worry that not a lot of people have seen that the server was moved. Also, if you're considering removing some changes, why not re-nerf Explosion? I personally feel that it doesn't really promote skillful play.

Feb 11th, 2013, 11:36:06 PM	#172
Nollan Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 39 Earth, Milky Way	When it comes to Explosion, I think the Gen 4 Mechanics were much more promotive of its use and should be revived, but that's just my opinion I suppose. __________________ Feel free to pay of visit to: play.pokemonshowdown.com/~~nollansfactory

Apr 21st, 2013, 9:15:07 AM	#174
Dusk209 No relation. Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 149	Alright, I'm reviving this thread. The first post will explain everything, but to put it shortly I've redone the mod and its a lot different now. As a warning, though, there aren't many people who go on the server nowadays so it might take a while to regain the playerbase. __________________ [15:13:52] <&Zarel> Dusk209, you lied to me so much :( [15:14:47] <%Dusk209> Is there anything I can do to make up for my sins [15:15:42] <&Zarel> Dusk209, I accept blowjobs

Apr 21st, 2013, 3:58:59 PM	#175
TheBurgerKing99 Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 48	Yay this is finally up. Now, this metagame has been on for a couple of months before the thread got changed, so I'm gona list some things to help new people out: 1. Pack a counter for suicune, it didn't appear to get much, but access to reliable recovery allows it to run Crocune much more effectively, and wall almost everything. 2. Hail is a much more major threat, and makes common use of pokemon such as mamoswine, frosslass, and raikou. Don't discount it when teambuilding; either using or preparing for. 3. Quick powder is one of the most useful items in the game, and can make or break a pokemon, due to it's ability to jump speed tiers. Be sure to look out for this when running offense.