|Oct 20th, 2012, 7:39:44 PM||#1|
Join Date: Oct 2012
Revenant Machine - An OU Try Hard Team
Iím a 4th gen player at heart and that will probably never change. I made one 5th gen team and it didnít go so hot so I turned around and never looked back. From what little I've seen of 5th gen I'm not really a fan. It seems that they went for a brawn over brain approach and that in the new generation the only strategy is bigger is better. Plus itís too focused on weather and a lot of the new pokes are too alike.
Anyway, I rant. I guess I'll throw this out there and hope for the best. I retired this team a long time ago, but Iíd be interested to see what people think about it. Any input that anyone has would be helpful especially addressing the gaping holes that are bound to exist. Feel free to point them out because - like Dr. Cox - I have a giant ego (rate for the Scrubs reference). It shouldnít hurt too badly.
I donít usually take the analytical, try-hard approach, where I try to type match and look for synergy and check for threats. I tend to just throw some pokes together and see what happens. But this is one of the few teams Iíve made that did use those things. I used it for a while until I got bored of it (thereís a lot of standard sets, nothing unusual or unique like I like). I had okay luck with it. Iím sure if someone who was actually good at laddering used it they would get better results than I did.
Generally when I do build teams like this I have a pretty consistent strategy. (1) pick a sweeper (2) build a core (3) pick a lead (4) check for threats and (5) revenge killer. So here we go (rate for the Dark Knight reference)Ö
Using this mech Iíve built teams around quite a few big metagame sweepers but Iíd never tried an SD Lucario, which met my only criteria for choosing (hits hard). So thatís what I went with. Now what checks Luc? Anything fast with EQ: Gliscor first, Skarm for sure, fast ghosts and Rotom can do the job, and finally bulky grasses and bulky waters.
Keeping that at the back of my mind I decided I wanted a two-man core because of a certain article I read about leads. That means I could cover a lot less ground so I knew I was going to have to do so rationalizing. The typical fire/water/grass core wasnít going to cut it.
I donít remember exactly how I decided on Gengar and Scizor but they fit into the team really well. They cover each other well and can hit on the physical and special sides. Though they didnít go line by line countering all of Lucís checks they provided a base that I could build the rest of the team off of. They went in at the three and four spot.
Next comes the lead(s). Before making this team I had read some article about synergy between leads. The gist of it was that one lead with four moves can never possibly cover all of the other leads in the metagameÖso why not use two? I felt like Starmie and Metagross fit into my team best while also being able to handle about 90 percent of the common metagame leads between the two of them. So they went in at the one and two spots.
At this point I took a step back and looked at where there were holes. I couldnít tell you exactly what I was thinking back then since it was a long time ago, but looking through the threat list now, I see Scarf Heatran, Agility Empoleon, Scarf Flygon, DD Nite, Scarf Jirachi, and a RestoChesto DD Kingdra. Basically most things that are fast and powerful with a way to boost their speed. The one poke that can cover these relatively well is Scarf Flygon. He went in as the final addition.
Starmie (Starburst) @ Life Orb | Natural Cure
Timid | 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Metagross (Adamantine) @ Lum Berry | Clear Body
Adamant | 252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Spe
Without a doubt the most fun I had on this team was with the leads. This combination, built into the rest of the team, was extremely efficient as an anti-lead, preventing rocks, and setting them up. Both of them can also easily come in late game and hit hard on the physical and special side.
The sets are both pretty standard as leads: Hydro Pump for STAB and bolt-beam for coverage on Starmie. Rapid Spin allows Starmie to hit suicide leads down to their sash and then simultaneously kill them and spin away rocks.
Hydro Pump accuracy is lame but it gets key 2HKOs on Metagross and Swampert and hits Azelf down to its sash.
Metagross gets Meteor Mash and Earthquake and can take pretty much anything Starmie canít handle. Bullet Punch means sashes are irrelevant, and 16 speed EVs to outspeed other Metagross and get the EQ off first.
Starmie handles suicide leads quite well, hitting them down to their sash then finishing them off and spinning away rocks. Bulky leads like Metagross fall to two Hydro Pumps meaning they have to choose between doing damage or setting up rocks. Starmie takes care of most of the rest with powerful special attack and speed and great type coverage.
There are a few that require a switch to Metagross. He can take them out with a combination of EQ or Mash and Bullet Punch. Lum serves to protect from Sleep and Confusion and anything else that happens to appear.
Tyranitar serves as the biggest threat. Though rare, lead Pursuit leaves me vulnerable and there's not much I can do about it. I switch and hope that they don't run it. From there Metagross can 2HKO with Earthquake. I considered giving Starmie a Babiri Berry but its use would have been pretty niche and the drop in damage output would have been tough to accomodate.
Gengar (Revenant) @ Life Orb | Levitate
Timid | 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Scizor (Mjolnir) @ Choice Band | Technician
Adamant | 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def (30 speed IV)
This core was also pretty fun to use. Although both sets are pretty standard, they worked together to form a sort of seamless structure that could deal with a surprising amount of threats. Scizor can handle Tyranitar and scares away Blissey and Snorlax, giving Gengar a chance to sweep. Likewise, against Rotom, Gengar can split and sub and fire off powerful Shadow Balls. He can also handle Gyara and Zapdos fairly well with Shadow Ball and Pain Split, subbing on their Thunder Waves and Taunts.
One reason Gengar is so annoying is he is really hard to hit. Ground, fighting, and normal moves don't touch him and he packs key resistances a key resistance to grass, meaning threats like Breloom and Gliscor can't touch him without Stone Edge.
Despite the fact that Thunderbolt gets super effective hits on Gyara and Skarm I couldn't rationalize not giving Gengar Focus Blast. The low accuracy hurts, especially on someone as unlucky as me, but Life Orb Focus Blast gets important KOs on Ttar, Weavile, and low HP Scizor.
Generally, Scizor is not a problem, I never let Gengar hang around without a sub so Pursuit is never an issue. Focus Blast does serious damage to it and with no way to recover, Scizor-users become wary on how many time they want to switch in to a 120 base power Life Orb Focus Blast.
Scizor is a great asset. Along with Flygon, he serves as the glue that holds the team together while also being able to punch holes in the other teams defenses and opening up the way for Gengar, Starmie, or Lucario to sweep.
There's nothing I really need to say about technician Bullet Punch, it speaks for itself. Pursuit/Bullet Punch combo ruins other Gengars without a sub and banded Superpower from the hammer of Thor can even put a serious dent in dedicated walls like Skarm and Hippowdon.
The 30 speed IV on Scizor means he is slower than other Scizor. This means if they trade Superpowers, mine goes off with their defense lowered OHKOing most of the time after rocks. It doesn't really matter otherwise since I treat speed ties as if I'm slower and play from there.
Lucario (Bow) @ Life Orb | Steadfast
Jolly | 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
This set gets unresisted coverage, 80 base power priority, and a two-stage attack boosting move. But despite that, Lucario is usually the poke I end up using the least.
Even though the team is built around letting him sweep, I usually try to save him for last, and by the time I let the cat out of the bag, either the game is already over in my favor and he comes in, SDs and Extreme Speeds twice and I win, or Iím about to lose and he comes in only to get OHKO by a set up Dragonite. I do have to say though, when Luc does get set up, he is pretty hard to stop.
Normally I donít like having so many pokes with Life Orb on one team, but I couldnít really justify not giving it to him, especially with a Jolly nature. Jolly lets Luc outspeed some slower versions of Gliscor, but you canít give him leftovers and Jolly so I decided to go with another Life Orb.
Steadfast is on there because one time I did get a flinch and a +2, +1 Lucario is pretty beastly.
(Rate for a Breath of Fire II reference, wow thatís obscure)
Flygon (Sand Spirit) @ Choice Scarf | Levitate
NaÔve | 216 Atk / 40 SpA / 252 Spe
Flygon basically takes whatever I canít handle with the rest of my team. Eventually residual Earthquakes and U-turns are going to wear something down and Flygon steps in to do the job aptly.
STAB Dragon and Ground are a practically unresisted combination and make Flygon very hard to handle. As long as he gets them before they set up, he can hit Dragonite, Kingdra, and offending scarfers hard enough to scare them off and leave them vulnerable to priority from a sweeper near end game.
I originally had Stone Edge on this dude but when I looked at my team and realized I had no way of dealing with Forretress or Scizor, I decided to give him Fire Blast. It also let him deal with Skarm which is presumably why the EVs are the strange way they are. I canít tell you exactly why the stats and nature are the way they are. I probably had some rationalization for it, but right now I have no idea. The only reason I could think of is to ensure a 2HKO on Skarm with Fire Blast.
I never feel comfortable with Outrage on since I'm always paranoid someone is going to have another scarfer (cough, cough, Jirachi) that will come in and KO me. But I can't justify Dragon Claw simply because of the drop in power. I lose the OHKO on Dragonite and the 2HKO on Kingdra making Flygon's role much less useful.
[Annoying] Minor threat or difficult to kill
[Dangerous] Serious threat that can sweep or cripple the team
When I first designed the team I meant to build it around removing counters, allowing Luc to sweep. But it kind of evolved into a team where Luc along with Gengar and Scizor formed the offensive core and Starmie and Metagross were the supporting cast while Flygon held everyone together. It moved further away from "everybody working to help Luc sweep" towards more of a "weaken the team until whoever is best matched can sweep." For this reason I was already considering some changes when my attention was diverted elsewhere.
I could replace Luc with a Scarf Tyranitar and that would free up Flygon's spot as revenger killer for a mixed set I designed that I really want to try, or the screech set that would really mess with people.
Any input would be cool. If I find it interesting enough I'll remake the team and test it out myself. Anybody who uses this team or some variation of it PM if you want and tell me how it goes.
Thanks for reading and rating!
Last edited by tertiaryanomaly; Oct 20th, 2012 at 8:19:38 PM.
|Oct 21st, 2012, 7:05:38 AM||#2|
Join Date: Oct 2010
Really cool team, you seem to employ a lot of Pokemon that happen to be my favourites, and our team styles are similar. Nice!
In the beginning, about Starmie and a Babiri berry (which resists steel), I think you meant Colbur berry for dark. Just pointing it out cause I thought that was weird.
I think Lucario would definitely benefit more from Inner Focus. The main flincher, Jirachi, would still outspeed you at +1 with a choice scarf, thus allowing it to possibly kill you with a second attack. Other flinchers like Gyarados are hit with extremespeed anyway, and Togekiss is either slower or would use Aura Sphere to OHKO.
About your comment at the end, adding a Scarf Tyranitar could definitely help against Zapdos. However, if not using Superpower, it opens you up even more to Blissey and Breloom. Plus, if you lose a fast revenge killer, offensive DD Gyarados with EQ could actually sweep the entire team clean (except Scizor which I believe is a 2HKO). Usually having a scarftar calls for at least 1 more revenge killer.
However, the sandstorm boost would be wonderful seeing as 4/6 of your team is immune to it and subsplit gengar could actually benefit from the hp loss.
I realized a quite large Zapdos weakness, which you pointed out too. Starmie, being weak to Pursuit (especially that of Weavile, who outspeeds and has a chance to OHKO on a non-switch after Life Orb damage), can easily go down. Considering that even if Starmie is alive Zapdos can just OHKO it, that's a big problem. SubRoost zapdos with Hidden Power Ice would destroy this team (not all at once, but over the course of the battle) since it can find many free opportunities against Metagross, Scizor, and Flygon to Roost or sub, then gengar or starmie will have serious trouble landing a hit.
Electric-type moves and pokemon all pose quite a threat to this team, seeing as your only resist is Flygon, and those with hidden power ice can just OHKO. After that, electric goes unresisted. Substitute LO Jolteon, for example, is a huge problem (though uncommon).
You team also looks like it has trouble with bulky water types, like Vaporeon, especially since Metagross lacks Explosion. Notice how every single water type in your threat list is either annoying or dangerous.
You could try replacing Starmie with:
Celebi @ Occa Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fire]
- U-Turn / Recover
Celebi covers all the leads that Starmie covers, but with a bit of surprise. I don't see your team being weak to Stealth Rock, and since its offensive you could just try and prevent Spikes instead of remove them. Plus, 5/6 of the team is immune to Toxic Spikes. Celebi resists electric and can also counter Breloom after Sleep Clause is activated.
Like Starmie, Celebi can bait a Payback from Machamp and U-Turn out to Metagross. Celebi, like Starmie, can also bait Pursuit for Lucario to set up.
This set is a bit unorthodox, but just having a Celebi lead is odd enough. Leaf Storm for STAB, Swampert, and other bulky water types that just have their way with the rest of the team. Recover can be used over any of these moves, preferably U-Turn.
Earth Power to 2HKO Shuca Heatran or OHKO Scarf Heatran, OHKO non-sash Infernape, and 2HKO Metagross. Very handy.
Hidden Power Ice is useful for Gliscor and Dragonite leads (although it does like 95% to each), while also hitting Zapdos to break substitutes and such. However, fire can be used for Forretress and Skarmory seeing as you lack fire moves on this team.
U-Turn to hit Azelf, switch to Flygon, and U-Turn back to Celebi for the KO or scout the switch in. Good for switching out of Bronzong and Tyranitar as well and for gaining momentum, but lacks any power at all and Recover could be a good choice.
Some other ways to combat bulky waters, Blissey, and Zapdos include:
Explosion for Metagross
Choice Band Snorlax
Choice Specs Rotom-a (in place of Gengar)
Tyranitar (in place of Scizor or Lucario)
Heatran w/ Explosion (in place of Metagross?)
Feel free to test these, any of them can help with your weaknesses.
If you add a Rotom-h or Heatran, you could change Flygon's Fire Blast to ThunderPunch to help against Gyarados. If using Jolteon, it'll outrun +1 Adamant Gyarados anyway. Tyranitar or Heatran would open you up to Suicune, but both help against Zapdos. Jolteon can beat both of them, but not Blissey.
Choice Specs Rotom-a helps against Blissey (with trick), bulky water types, and is just a surprisingly hard hitter in general. It beats Zapdos without Toxic and can cripple walls like Forretress and Swampert. Rotom-h can be used for more "fire"power against Forretress, Scizor, and Bronzong.
Choice Band Snorlax is a big deal since it hits unexpectedly hard and counters stuff like Suicune, Zapdos, and Blissey. It also adds another fire resistance if you choose to go with the Thick Fat ability.
Phew, that was a long post. I'd be surprised if you got this far :P