Order of the Dragon

Wyverian · Nov 2nd, 2012, 3:22:47 PM

Okay my first post here on the site. This is my first serious OU team, and I have been testing it for awhile, however despite that I am not to good at making a threat list, but I will try to give you fine folks an idea of the issues i am having. Without further adieu the team I call; Order of the Dragon.

Lonebane (Terrakion) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Justified
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Att, 252 Spe, 4 SDef
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Taunt
- Stealth Rocks
Originally a Lead Metagross, I have come to enjoy using this Terrakion set. Close Combat hits so hard that it makes me blink at times, same goes with Stone Edge despite my "luck" with hitting with moves without 100 accuracy. Taunt does help prevent entry hazards from getting up on the field, which means Darkflame (Volcarona) can get his job down easier.

Floraspell (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Nature: Relaxed
IVs: 0 Speed
EVs: 252 HP, 208 Def, 48 SDef
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
I suppose this is your bread and butter Ferrothorn set, sets up Leech Seed and then starts setting up those Spikes, whittling things down for my other teammates to polish off.

Howlcloud (Jellicent) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP, 220 SDef, 36 Def
- Scald
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
- Recover
The second part of the Ferrothorn/Jellicent defensive core, Scald for the burn on physical threats if he is out as well as Steel typed Walls, Toxic on the walls that are not Steel type, Recover to heal itself, and Shadow Ball to deal decent damage and maybe get the SDef drop. Pretty standard affair once again.

Beastguard (Donphan) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Att, 4 Def
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
My Offesnive rapid Spinner who used to be a defensive Rapid Spinner, while losing some bulk he is still able to switch in plenty and even stay in on Dragons to threaten with Ice Shard if they are weakened. Earthquake for STAB and Toxic to help weaken some targets that Jellicent is threatened by.

Darkflame (Volcarona) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtt, 252 Spe, 4 SDEf
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power (Ice)
- Quiver Dance
My special sweeper comes out and either goes for the Quiver Dance or I just start swinging, which I've had an odd amount of success with that... Fiery Dance > Fire Blast as I seem to be the unluckiest person when it comes to getting Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, etc... to hit. Bug Buzz for his bug STAB move, Hidden Power Ice for Flying types and Flying/Dragons though he does miss the Super effective on Fire types now with out Hidden Power (Rock). Quiver Dance to boost him into a nearly unstoppable killing Bug.

Helllord (Latios) @ Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtt, 252 Spe, SDef 4
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power (Fire)
- Surf
- Psyshock
Originally was a Banded Moxie Salamence, but was changed as I was having issues getting past Substitutes, enter Haxorus, and now he has become an extremely speedy Latios. His speed allows me to hit things before the Sub goes up in most cases, Draco Meteor OHKs Landrous which slaughtered my team before, as well as threatening Steel types with hidden Power (Fire). While Surf allows me to hit Gliscor harder and get a boost in the Rain. While Psyshock Hits some Fighting types hard such Conkeldurr.

Previous Team:

Current Team:

Threat List (Updated):
-Recently a Breloom switched in and just walked all over my team as if it didn't exist.
-I also don't seem to do well against dedicated Stall teams, as they wear me down and i just can't seem to punch them hard enough.
-I am having issues hitting Drizzles teams once again with the lack of Electric moves. As they can take whatever I throw at them and hit me back harder.

I know there is more I am sure, I am just not good at finding them cause I generally chalk up my loses to lack of experience not the fault of my team. So any help you guys could provide would be amazing.

TooMuchSugar · Nov 2nd, 2012, 3:38:31 PM

Okay, one small suggestion I can give, just off the top of my head, is HP Ice > HP Rock. Ice covers flying types the same as rock, and hits flying dragons at 4x instead of 2x. HP Ice will also hit Gliscor for 4x if he's a problem. The only reason to use HP Rock over Ice seems to be to hit Gyarados, so if he's a big problem, go ahead and ignore me. I'm sure there are other things too, so I'll look at this more in-depth when I have more time.

ganj4lF · Nov 2nd, 2012, 4:23:31 PM

This team desperately needs more revenge killing potential. If your enemy manage to set up SR (read: it will), any threat non-weak to Bullet Punch is a huge problem. LO Sheer Force Landorus OHKOs everything after Rocks, except from Jellicent, which is promptly 2HKO'd. It also outspeeds every single poke on your team (big problem). Keldeo is sorta similar if something eliminates Jellicent for it (maybe a Pursuit user). You absolutely need to find a slot for a revenge killer, and the most suitable one in my opinion is Haxorus' one. Haxorus has kinda big problems in this metagame, with Genesects lurking around literally at every corner (see the recent usage statistics for more insight), since they outspeed easily after 1 DD if equipped with a Scarf. So my suggestion is to replace Haxorus with a Scarf Latios. Latios outspeeds everything in the OU tier bar +2 things like Rock Polish users or Clorophyll abusers, and hits them with powerful Draco Meteors, or with the appropriate attack. It's also a good, trollish way to get rid of those ScarfSects if they don't predict your Scarf and let you HP Fire them. It also can somewhat handle Gliscor, not really well but it can easily kill it if catched off guard, and can pressure with Surf if needed. Overall a great revenge killer with very decent bulk, blazing speed and high damaging attacks with awesome coverage.

Latios

Also, to further help with your Speed issues, I'd suggest switching from a Lead Metagross to a Lead Terrakion, which has seen an incredible amount of usage in this period. The fact that it can check somewhat Genesect, reliably set up SR while preventing the opponent to do so (notably Deoxys-D), which is greatly appreciated by your Volcarona, makes it a very good SR setter for your team, and even after that it still deals very solid damage with its awesone STAB combination.

Terrakion

Another little advice: you should try to use a 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def Adamant spread on Donphan. Your team can already take very well physical attacks thanks to Ferrothorn's incredible bulk, and eventual Fighting attacks can be handled easily (Jellicent, Volcarona, Latios), and the added punch on Earthquake and, most importantly, Ice Shard, makes them worthwhile and a good deterrent for most spinblockers to freely come in (see opposing Jellicents and Sableyes).

Hope it helped. Good luck.

Wyverian · Nov 2nd, 2012, 9:32:35 PM

I completely agree on the revenge killing as stated in my threat list. I will certainly test these options out, I do worry as I am losing my ability to check Bulky Water types again by losing Thunder Punch on Metagross, as that was a big issue for me when I was running him with Meteor Mash and facing Drizzle teams.

ganj4lF · Nov 3rd, 2012, 4:42:10 AM

252+ Atk Metagross ThunderPunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 160-190 (41.66 - 49.47%) -- 30.47% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 169-199 (44.01 - 51.82%) -- 77.34% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Of course there's the concern that Terrakion can't take Water attacks at all, however Metagross is not happy to risk a Scald burn anyway, so the main goal should be to hit them on the switch and, as shown above, Terrakion is generally better at this even without a SE move. You may have marginal advantages with ThunderPunch vs Gyarados (Clear Body + 4x SE move), or Jellicent, however Stone Edge hits both hard anyway, and Metagross has another big list of minuses, like not being able to check Genesect at all, being Celebi and Latias bait with your moveset (can't break CM Latias' Subs most of the times), all problems that Terrakion doesn't have.

Yeezy D · Nov 3rd, 2012, 3:35:50 PM

@TooMuchSugar;
HP Ice over HP Rock. Ice hits the same that Rock does and more:

- Ice:
x4 Dragon/Flying
x4 Ground/Flying
x2 Bug
x2 Grass
x2 Ground
x2 Flying
x2 Dragon

- Rock:
x2 Dragon/Flying
x0 Ground/Flying
x2 Bug
x0 Grass
-2 Ground
x2 Flying
x0 Dragon
x2 Ice

The only reason ever for Hidden Power Rock to be used over Ice is for x4 Volcarona, which is easily covered by any standard Rock-move, and the standard move gets STAB also and is stronger anyway. Even Rock Slide.

Wyverian · Nov 3rd, 2012, 11:31:58 PM

Updated everything including the threat list, sadly Drizzle teams are once again an issue. Also A Yeezy Hidden Power (Rock) hits Fire harder than Ice does...

Nov 2nd, 2012, 3:22:47 PM	#1
Wyverian Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 3 Indiana	Order of the Dragon Okay my first post here on the site. This is my first serious OU team, and I have been testing it for awhile, however despite that I am not to good at making a threat list, but I will try to give you fine folks an idea of the issues i am having. Without further adieu the team I call; Order of the Dragon. Lonebane (Terrakion) @ Focus Sash Ability: Justified Nature: Jolly EVs: 252 Att, 252 Spe, 4 SDef - Close Combat - Stone Edge - Taunt - Stealth Rocks Originally a Lead Metagross, I have come to enjoy using this Terrakion set. Close Combat hits so hard that it makes me blink at times, same goes with Stone Edge despite my "luck" with hitting with moves without 100 accuracy. Taunt does help prevent entry hazards from getting up on the field, which means Darkflame (Volcarona) can get his job down easier. Floraspell (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers Ability: Iron Barbs Nature: Relaxed IVs: 0 Speed EVs: 252 HP, 208 Def, 48 SDef - Gyro Ball - Power Whip - Leech Seed - Spikes I suppose this is your bread and butter Ferrothorn set, sets up Leech Seed and then starts setting up those Spikes, whittling things down for my other teammates to polish off. Howlcloud (Jellicent) @ Leftovers Ability: Water Absorb Nature: Calm EVs: 252 HP, 220 SDef, 36 Def - Scald - Shadow Ball - Toxic - Recover The second part of the Ferrothorn/Jellicent defensive core, Scald for the burn on physical threats if he is out as well as Steel typed Walls, Toxic on the walls that are not Steel type, Recover to heal itself, and Shadow Ball to deal decent damage and maybe get the SDef drop. Pretty standard affair once again. Beastguard (Donphan) @ Leftovers Ability: Sturdy Nature: Adamant EVs: 252 HP, 252 Att, 4 Def - Earthquake - Ice Shard - Rapid Spin - Toxic My Offesnive rapid Spinner who used to be a defensive Rapid Spinner, while losing some bulk he is still able to switch in plenty and even stay in on Dragons to threaten with Ice Shard if they are weakened. Earthquake for STAB and Toxic to help weaken some targets that Jellicent is threatened by. Darkflame (Volcarona) @ Life Orb Ability: Flame Body Nature: Timid EVs: 252 SAtt, 252 Spe, 4 SDEf - Fiery Dance - Bug Buzz - Hidden Power (Ice) - Quiver Dance My special sweeper comes out and either goes for the Quiver Dance or I just start swinging, which I've had an odd amount of success with that... Fiery Dance > Fire Blast as I seem to be the unluckiest person when it comes to getting Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, etc... to hit. Bug Buzz for his bug STAB move, Hidden Power Ice for Flying types and Flying/Dragons though he does miss the Super effective on Fire types now with out Hidden Power (Rock). Quiver Dance to boost him into a nearly unstoppable killing Bug. Helllord (Latios) @ Choice Band Ability: Levitate Nature: Timid EVs: 252 SAtt, 252 Spe, SDef 4 - Draco Meteor - Hidden Power (Fire) - Surf - Psyshock Originally was a Banded Moxie Salamence, but was changed as I was having issues getting past Substitutes, enter Haxorus, and now he has become an extremely speedy Latios. His speed allows me to hit things before the Sub goes up in most cases, Draco Meteor OHKs Landrous which slaughtered my team before, as well as threatening Steel types with hidden Power (Fire). While Surf allows me to hit Gliscor harder and get a boost in the Rain. While Psyshock Hits some Fighting types hard such Conkeldurr. Previous Team: Current Team: Threat List (Updated): -Recently a Breloom switched in and just walked all over my team as if it didn't exist. -I also don't seem to do well against dedicated Stall teams, as they wear me down and i just can't seem to punch them hard enough. -I am having issues hitting Drizzles teams once again with the lack of Electric moves. As they can take whatever I throw at them and hit me back harder. I know there is more I am sure, I am just not good at finding them cause I generally chalk up my loses to lack of experience not the fault of my team. So any help you guys could provide would be amazing. Last edited by Wyverian; Nov 3rd, 2012 at 11:27:58 PM. Reason: Updating

Nov 2nd, 2012, 3:38:31 PM	#2
TooMuchSugar Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 71 Not Nevada	Okay, one small suggestion I can give, just off the top of my head, is HP Ice > HP Rock. Ice covers flying types the same as rock, and hits flying dragons at 4x instead of 2x. HP Ice will also hit Gliscor for 4x if he's a problem. The only reason to use HP Rock over Ice seems to be to hit Gyarados, so if he's a big problem, go ahead and ignore me. I'm sure there are other things too, so I'll look at this more in-depth when I have more time. __________________ The foe's GladOS ~~fainted~~ is still alive!

Nov 2nd, 2012, 4:23:31 PM	#3
ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science! Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 691 Italy	This team desperately needs more revenge killing potential. If your enemy manage to set up SR (read: it will), any threat non-weak to Bullet Punch is a huge problem. LO Sheer Force Landorus OHKOs everything after Rocks, except from Jellicent, which is promptly 2HKO'd. It also outspeeds every single poke on your team (big problem). Keldeo is sorta similar if something eliminates Jellicent for it (maybe a Pursuit user). You absolutely need to find a slot for a revenge killer, and the most suitable one in my opinion is Haxorus' one. Haxorus has kinda big problems in this metagame, with Genesects lurking around literally at every corner (see the recent usage statistics for more insight), since they outspeed easily after 1 DD if equipped with a Scarf. So my suggestion is to replace Haxorus with a Scarf Latios. Latios outspeeds everything in the OU tier bar +2 things like Rock Polish users or Clorophyll abusers, and hits them with powerful Draco Meteors, or with the appropriate attack. It's also a good, trollish way to get rid of those ScarfSects if they don't predict your Scarf and let you HP Fire them. It also can somewhat handle Gliscor, not really well but it can easily kill it if catched off guard, and can pressure with Surf if needed. Overall a great revenge killer with very decent bulk, blazing speed and high damaging attacks with awesome coverage. Latios Latios @ Choice Scarf \| Levitate Timid \| 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe - Draco Meteor - Hidden Power Fire - Surf / Psyshock - Trick / Psyshock Also, to further help with your Speed issues, I'd suggest switching from a Lead Metagross to a Lead Terrakion, which has seen an incredible amount of usage in this period. The fact that it can check somewhat Genesect, reliably set up SR while preventing the opponent to do so (notably Deoxys-D), which is greatly appreciated by your Volcarona, makes it a very good SR setter for your team, and even after that it still deals very solid damage with its awesone STAB combination. Terrakion Terrakion @ Focus Sash \| Justified Jolly \| 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe - Taunt - Stealth Rock - Close Combat - Stone Edge Another little advice: you should try to use a 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def Adamant spread on Donphan. Your team can already take very well physical attacks thanks to Ferrothorn's incredible bulk, and eventual Fighting attacks can be handled easily (Jellicent, Volcarona, Latios), and the added punch on Earthquake and, most importantly, Ice Shard, makes them worthwhile and a good deterrent for most spinblockers to freely come in (see opposing Jellicents and Sableyes). Hope it helped. Good luck. __________________ Counter that Pokemon project: Mk III (over) & Warstory \| Mk IV (running) RMTs: The HOutsiders (also the other ones if anyone likes lurking my old posts) Take a look at this before starting an argument Not accepting rating requests anymore. Sorry!

Nov 3rd, 2012, 4:42:10 AM	#5
ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science! Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 691 Italy	252+ Atk Metagross ThunderPunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 160-190 (41.66 - 49.47%) -- 30.47% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 169-199 (44.01 - 51.82%) -- 77.34% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock Of course there's the concern that Terrakion can't take Water attacks at all, however Metagross is not happy to risk a Scald burn anyway, so the main goal should be to hit them on the switch and, as shown above, Terrakion is generally better at this even without a SE move. You may have marginal advantages with ThunderPunch vs Gyarados (Clear Body + 4x SE move), or Jellicent, however Stone Edge hits both hard anyway, and Metagross has another big list of minuses, like not being able to check Genesect at all, being Celebi and Latias bait with your moveset (can't break CM Latias' Subs most of the times), all problems that Terrakion doesn't have. __________________ Counter that Pokemon project: Mk III (over) & Warstory \| Mk IV (running) RMTs: The HOutsiders (also the other ones if anyone likes lurking my old posts) Take a look at this before starting an argument Not accepting rating requests anymore. Sorry!

Nov 2nd, 2012, 9:32:35 PM	#4
Wyverian Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 3 Indiana	I completely agree on the revenge killing as stated in my threat list. I will certainly test these options out, I do worry as I am losing my ability to check Bulky Water types again by losing Thunder Punch on Metagross, as that was a big issue for me when I was running him with Meteor Mash and facing Drizzle teams.

Nov 3rd, 2012, 3:35:50 PM	#6
Yeezy D Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 73 Indigo Plateau	@TooMuchSugar; HP Ice over HP Rock. Ice hits the same that Rock does and more: - Ice: x4 Dragon/Flying x4 Ground/Flying x2 Bug x2 Grass x2 Ground x2 Flying x2 Dragon - Rock: x2 Dragon/Flying x0 Ground/Flying x2 Bug x0 Grass -2 Ground x2 Flying x0 Dragon x2 Ice The only reason ever for Hidden Power Rock to be used over Ice is for x4 Volcarona, which is easily covered by any standard Rock-move, and the standard move gets STAB also and is stronger anyway. Even Rock Slide.

Nov 3rd, 2012, 11:31:58 PM	#7
Wyverian Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 3 Indiana	Updated everything including the threat list, sadly Drizzle teams are once again an issue. Also A Yeezy Hidden Power (Rock) hits Fire harder than Ice does...